I want too, but I know better

[Netzach]

I almost dig this response, which is weird because you've driven me insane in the past.



Exactly!



Bwah ha.



Snap!



Ok, funny, good.



Yes, except she still hasn't. It was in a chat room. Chat room. Say it with me, chat room.

Pardon me while I bang my head against the wall...(actually, per this thread: *bang bang bang*)

Thankyouthankyouthankyou.

 

[Netzach]

The pen is mightier than the sword, etc., etc., I suppose.

*Sigh* I just never can get into that kind of thing.

How meta are we seriously willing to get? I understand the whole "blah blah feelings make it real" thing, but Jesus h. this is not the Velveteen Rabbit, it's sexuality.

 

[EmpressFi]

wow so many debates to be dredged up in one post.. submission is a gift.. online isnt real..

cant we agree to disagree on a few issues? Put away the droll sarcastic drizzle of how could you be stupid enough to think <insert random thought here>? You'd think with all the kink in the world that we would be the ones who could express our differences without dampening the spirit of those who happen to disagree with how we feel about things.

It really is sad..and disheartening

 

[taciturnTalia]

There is nothing consensual about our world. Something is always eating something else.

NOTHING consensual?

If you truely believe that you must either allow yourself to be victimized, or you enjoy victimizing people.

I mean haven't you ever willingly and happily agreed to do something that was someone else's idea/request/demand? Thats the loose idea behind consenting to something.

If not I suppose I could see how you may not believe in it-- but it must be a scary/cruel world you live in if thats the case...

 

[Betticus]

NOTHING consensual?

it must be a scary/cruel world you live in if thats the case...

i agree

 

[YourCaptor]

Adakgirl

There are two big things to keep in mind here.

1. Online everyone seems to become a bad ass
2. If you’re both new, go one step at a time, if you feel uncomfortable, slow it down

As for the note, personally my opinion is that a new sub, or any sub at the beginning of a relationship really can’t do much wrong. Every dom has their own style, the subs not telepathic, the relationship grows it doesn’t just manifest, it’s a process and all beginnings are rough.

Another thing, if you feel he is not dominating properly, then he probably just isn’t your suitor.

 

[FurryFury]

wow so many debates to be dredged up in one post.. submission is a gift.. online isnt real..

cant we agree to disagree on a few issues? Put away the droll sarcastic drizzle of how could you be stupid enough to think <insert random thought here>? You'd think with all the kink in the world that we would be the ones who could express our differences without dampening the spirit of those who happen to disagree with how we feel about things.

It really is sad..and disheartening

I knew that sort of thing was likely to come up when I saw the elements. I didn't think they really answered the OP's question though.

Personally I know that my sexuality has never been hotter than when I was doing things online, things that could make me come with no touch at all, because the brain is the best sex organ there is.

*shrug*

 

[Homburg]

From reading some of your previous posts I was shocked to read that..Just a random thought..it's early..lol.

This was my first damned thought too. The OP has come across in previous posts as possessing first-hand knowledge, not as someone whose had a few months of an online master and not a shred of face to face and hand on ass.

-------

The term submissive has to be earned and not taken lightly, either. Despite this, you called him Master. You already gave him the title. Obviously you took the title lightly.

One-hundred percent agreement. Cannot agree more highly, in fact.

No. Shut up, do what he tells you. No risk, no fun. You can read books and forums all day, this doesn't give you any experience. It will merely give you information, which is most often useless without experience. If you've never loved, you can't understand Romeo and Juliet.. and if you never bottomed/topped, you will never understand what other people will write about BDSM.

Have to agree again. Your take on looking online vs looking locally was spot-on as well. You're really on in this one, Primalex.

Course, I've stated my disdain for online-only time and again.

 

[FurryFury]

You'd be surprised at how much knowledge can be gleaned from research and finally listening to the voice inside you, combined with a little online play.

 

[Homburg]

You'd be surprised at how much knowledge can be gleaned from research and finally listening to the voice inside you, combined with a little online play.

Not really. I've seen it. It was not impressive. Research is fine and good, but all the research in the world does not hold a candle to that first impact.

 

[YourCaptor]

You'd be surprised at how much knowledge can be gleaned from research and finally listening to the voice inside you, combined with a little online play.

Knowledge yes, practical skill, no.

Experience is really everything, I could read a 747 manual for a year and I will still do worse flying then a guy whose had flight training for a few days.

But knowledge sure helps gain practical skill faster.

 

[stickwork]

Knowledge yes, practical skill, no.

Experience is really everything, I could read a 747 manual for a year and I will still do worse flying then a guy whose had flight training for a few days.

But knowledge sure helps gain practical skill faster.

I've flown 747's for years - if you mean the Boeing model.

Yet I know not of what you speak.

 

[myinnerslut]

I've flown 747's for years - if you mean the Boeing model.

Yet I know not of what you speak.

i think he meant reading about something and doing it are two different things

 

[YourCaptor]

I've flown 747's for years - if you mean the Boeing model.

Yet I know not of what you speak.

As the pilot... eh, without autopilot, eh... why not?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Actually I think for some people, exploring online first is a perfect option. I know for myself I much prefer where it got me as opposed to being one of the many posters on forums who go through one after another bad relationship, all the heartache and jaded outlook, because they are trying to work out what they want, what flicks their switches, all while being in the position of mass distraction from face to face dating.

I explored my own thoughts with someone (online) experienced and knowledgeable, decided what was vital for me, had a handful of impact experiences (and yes, that is a handful, not 10-20+), went in search of the one right for me and with the clear message I was not interested in dating and messing around with someone who wasn't going to ever possibly fit, met F online, met him face to face 5 months later, was collared, and married 2 weeks later as soon as was legally possible. We both are viewed by those who know us as responsible, non-impulsive, stable, quiet and thought dominant people. 5 1/2 years down the track, neither of us has ever had a moment of regret and it just gets better and better.

Catalina

 

[Primalex]

NOTHING consensual?

I mean haven't you ever willingly and happily agreed to do something that was someone else's idea/request/demand?

If you willingly and happily consent to sex with a hot guy, does this really mean it was your free choice or does it merely mean the hormones in your body made you accept the offer? Do you have a choice if you like someone or not? Can you decide:"Oh, from today on, I will like this person!" or "From today on, I will like green cabbage." Can you decide that you will enjoy getting tied up and ass-fucked? Can you decide to not like it?

If you make a decision, isn't the result already pre-determined? All the factors, genes, hormones, education, experience etc. may not be completely investigated in this issue, but do you really decide? If you do a real timewarp, is there a chance that you would decide differently even though you would be the very same person or would you always make the very same decision? If the result is already set in stone, how can you then consent? You are merely expressing the result of things you can't control.

 

[Light Ice]

If you willingly and happily consent to sex with a hot guy, does this really mean it was your free choice or does it merely mean the hormones in your body made you accept the offer? Do you have a choice if you like someone or not? Can you decide:"Oh, from today on, I will like this person!" or "From today on, I will like green cabbage." Can you decide that you will enjoy getting tied up and ass-fucked? Can you decide to not like it?

If you make a decision, isn't the result already pre-determined? All the factors, genes, hormones, education, experience etc. may not be completely investigated in this issue, but do you really decide? If you do a real timewarp, is there a chance that you would decide differently even though you would be the very same person or would you always make the very same decision? If the result is already set in stone, how can you then consent? You are merely expressing the result of things you can't control.

What?

You absolutely have a choice in regards to how you feel about an individual, and I don't think that romance has anything to do with the matter. It's your decision to pursue or entertain an attraction, and it's your decision to tolerate shortcomings and failures as they reveal themselves. All of these decisions make you accountable for the consequences.

I understand that a large aspect of the BDSM world, especially in dealing with subs, has a great deal to do with a woman being able to release herself from these kinds of responsibilities. Through trust she relinquishes all of her accountability, conforming to the will of another who willingly holds himself accountable on her behalf.

But the overwhelming response from the women here, and what impressed me so, is that despite their sympathy to her desires... they encourage her to NOT hold herself helpless in the situation, and scorn the thought that she wouldn't show herself as capable and assertive in the absence of a master. In other words, she's accountable for her own happiness.

I think your attempt at philosophy is worth discussion, but I heartily disagree with your premise.

 

[FurryFury]

Not really. I've seen it. It was not impressive. Research is fine and good, but all the research in the world does not hold a candle to that first impact.

We are likely talking about two different things then.

 

[kushielstoy]

Actually I think for some people, exploring online first is a perfect option. I know for myself I much prefer where it got me as opposed to being one of the many posters on forums who go through one after another bad relationship, all the heartache and jaded outlook, because they are trying to work out what they want, what flicks their switches, all while being in the position of mass distraction from face to face dating.

I explored my own thoughts with someone (online) experienced and knowledgeable, decided what was vital for me, had a handful of impact experiences (and yes, that is a handful, not 10-20+), went in search of the one right for me and with the clear message I was not interested in dating and messing around with someone who wasn't going to ever possibly fit, met F online, met him face to face 5 months later, was collared, and married 2 weeks later as soon as was legally possible. We both are viewed by those who know us as responsible, non-impulsive, stable, quiet and thought dominant people. 5 1/2 years down the track, neither of us has ever had a moment of regret and it just gets better and better.

Catalina

Yes, I totally agree with you. I am 43 years old and I own a business. It might be good for me but not my business to explore my kinks and quirks in real time, at this point.

This forum has allowed me the opportunities to not only educate myself, but to dialogue with more experienced people so that I can figure out what is right for me.

You have provided an amazing gleaning process for people to start to learn in. But I know that for me, I will need to find a partner to work with in real time. I crave personal contact and interaction. I can understand the fantasy of an on line Dom, but I know that it would not work for me.

When I find the right person/people to play with, I will explore in real time as well. Interacting here online is allowing me to start to identify what it is that I am and that I am looking for.

I believe that no amount of reading and talking can substitute for the real life interaction. (For me).

As for the OP, I like to think that a little discernment comes with practice and EXPERIENCE and that the she is in one of those narcissistic phases that we all go through.

So I guess my question back to the OP is:

"What have you learned"?

 

[catalina_francisco]

But I know that for me, I will need to find a partner to work with in real time. I crave personal contact and interaction. I can understand the fantasy of an on line Dom, but I know that it would not work for me.

When I find the right person/people to play with, I will explore in real time as well. Interacting here online is allowing me to start to identify what it is that I am and that I am looking for.

I believe that no amount of reading and talking can substitute for the real life interaction. (For me).

Not sure I agree that online is all fantasy...for instance if it were, I would have been a fool to have committed to someone I met online before meeting. Also, the one who guided me to the point of searching for someone (and guided me through that process as well) was more than a fantasy and was available to me at all times, through family tragedies, and to listen when I needed a sounding board for everyday personal dilemmas and decisions...a fantasy figure does not commit to that depth or make themselves available for it.

Committing to someone I had never met was not something I would usually do (nor he for that matter), but it was the right thing to do at the right time. There was no online play involved but lots of open discussion, sharing of ideas and goals, learning about each other as people as well as our lives to that point. With in the flesh contact from the beginning, a lot of those important factors often get pushed aside for the physical. The reasons I did it the way I did was firstly it was the most convenient for me at that time, and secondly, I wanted to get to know the person without the interference of physical desire and influences getting in the way.

And yes, reading (of which I did very little) and talking online can only provide one aspect, but then so can playing without knowing if it is the person you actually want to be involved with long term or permanently. Reading just this forum alone will provide enough material as evidence of the broken hearts, broken repeatedly as each relationship ends, and the often times jaded emotions that result as a consequence. I figured I had had my share of failed relationships and was going to use my head in future to prevent more fallout from a succession or relationships in D/s. I played with a couple of trusted friends on a couple of occasions to see if my desire for pain were more than a dreamed up desire I couldn't handle in reality, but apart from that I was very much into preserving the deeper stuff for when I found the right person. It isn't for everyone, but it worked for me and believe me, there were plenty of times I could have gladly given in and gone out and experienced flesh to flesh what I was longing for, but I honestly believe if I had, I would still be out there looking and being disappointed. I sort of looked at it as an exercise in self control in preparation for placing myself in the control of another if that makes sense.., not giving into my first instinct/desire, but holding out for it all in one package.

Catalina

 

[minx1]

Here is my dilemma. I have met a man on-line that I really, really like and care about. We don't know each other very well yet at all. He has never been a Master and is new and still learning too.
Though I have no doubt in my mind that he is a Dominate male, he did something in his chat room last night that made me go..uhohhhhh. I am an exhibitionist and enjoy showing my body, he asked me to show my breasts in his room and I did... I performed some dancing for the room's entertainment. We all had fun. While this was happening, he said on mic that he was my Master and he owned me. I have NO idea why I just went along with it. I typed it into the room upon his request. I called him Master during that time too. He also said he was going to collar me. He directed me the whole evening and I did as he asked me to do.
I KNOW that this was wrong and things just don't work that way. I guess I was so eager to please him, I just obeyed him. I want to have a Master so bad and I want so much to be Dominated, I guess I was willing accept it even if it was just for everyone's entertainment. Plus, I thought he was just role playing and did not really mean it. After he closed the room, I asked him if he was serious about being my Master, he said yes he was. He had to go and it was left at that.
Then I wrote him a long note about how my submission was a gift and how he could not expect me to be his instant submissive. I told him the title Master had to be earned and not taken lightly. I told him that an M/s was a relationship, a power exchange. That he needed to know me and care about me first. I told him I did not think he knew that being a Master was a big responsibility. That if he really meant it, that he needed to find out what it was all about. I also told him that I really do want to be his, but we needed to build a relationship first.
I told him that he needed to have much better reasons for wanting to be my Master than just using me for entertainment in his room.
Now I am afraid that he will be angry with me and reject me for telling him these things. That it will come to a screeching halt before it gets started.
I know I screwed up by acting like his submissive in the room. Please do not read me the riot act for it because I am well aware of my stupidity in doing it.
I know how foolish it was.
What I want to know is, am I going about this right by telling him these things? Should I give that note to him and take the chance of loosing him?
I know he did what he did out of ignorance, out of his lack of understanding. Should I forgive that and try to move forward with this? Do you think he will understand?
Or should I just forget the whole thing and never talk to him again?

well first of all I don't think you should give yourself too hard a time about what happened in the chat room. Like you said 'you all had fun'. If you regret it, put it down to experience.

Before I started out something similar happened to me, partly because I was new to exploring submission and was a little naive about it all. The man I 'played' with and I use that in the loosest term possible, really wasn't a Dom, although he portrayed himslef as one. Despite my lack of experience, it didn't take me too long to recognise that fact. It wasn't a great experience, but looking back it was that experience that spurred me on........discovering Lit and beginning my own personal journey looking for my Dominant.

It sounds as though you are looking for more than a casual roleplay at D/s in a chat room. That you want to explore your submission properly. First of all, If online feels right for you...do it. You will always find mixed opinions to it here. I fall in Cats and Furys camp...I was fortunate enough to find my M here and we embarked on a relationship that was primarily based on im and phone calls, in terms of contact. We had that for a year. 5 months ago i moved out to Australia so that we could try it in real time. Online is what you want it to be. It can be merely roleplaying I guess or it can be much more than that. Thats down to the people involved.

As for your Dominant...well personally speaking I don't think you did anything wrong by writing to him. Those are your concerns and feelings and its important you share them. I think the only thing I would say is that he may not be your Master yet but I would address him in a way that you would any potential Master.
Whether or not he will turn out to be the Master for you, depends greatly on what you are looking for and what you think is important. You say you 'know he acted out of ignorance and his lack of understanding'. Well if you are looking for someone to guide you and teach you I would suggest that then unfortunately he may not be the one, but if you are open to the idea of learning and developing together then personally I don't see a problem.

I hope I am making some sense...its late here. Anyway, good luck.

 

[intothewoods]

wow so many debates to be dredged up in one post.. submission is a gift.. online isnt real..

cant we agree to disagree on a few issues? Put away the droll sarcastic drizzle of how could you be stupid enough to think <insert random thought here>? You'd think with all the kink in the world that we would be the ones who could express our differences without dampening the spirit of those who happen to disagree with how we feel about things.

It really is sad..and disheartening

I don't like to piss people off, Empess. So let me explain why I've reacted the way I have.

I am not just being sarcastic for sarcasm's sake. I really believe there is some danger in not being able to separate fantasy from reality. It's not simply a matter of online=bad. This right now is online. It's different from having a conversation in real life, actually. There are some things about that that's better, and some not so much. But I am tired of the inability to distinguish online from real time, and fantasy from reality (two separate points). It's not healthy, and in some cases it can be dangerous.

Actually I think for some people, exploring online first is a perfect option. I know for myself I much prefer where it got me as opposed to being one of the many posters on forums who go through one after another bad relationship, all the heartache and jaded outlook, because they are trying to work out what they want, what flicks their switches, all while being in the position of mass distraction from face to face dating.

I explored my own thoughts with someone (online) experienced and knowledgeable, decided what was vital for me, had a handful of impact experiences (and yes, that is a handful, not 10-20+), went in search of the one right for me and with the clear message I was not interested in dating and messing around with someone who wasn't going to ever possibly fit, met F online, met him face to face 5 months later, was collared, and married 2 weeks later as soon as was legally possible. We both are viewed by those who know us as responsible, non-impulsive, stable, quiet and thought dominant people. 5 1/2 years down the track, neither of us has ever had a moment of regret and it just gets better and better.

Catalina

I don't think online = bad in all cases. I do think there is a problem when fantasy cannot be distinguished from reality. In this thread, people have discussed a fantasy as if it were real, and I find it misleading and annoying.

I absolutely believe your experience is real and wonderful. But we have all seen situations where it didn't work out so well.

Hell, I met my current PYL on collarme. I received only a handful of emails on that site I would consider sent by non-crazy people. I don't recommend the place. But as weird luck would have it, a non-crazyjerkoff emailed me and we met for a drink about a month later. So stranger shit has happened. It's not that online is bad. Precautions simply need to be taken, just as you would in real life, and then some if you don't have a reference for this person. Again, what I think is potentially dangerous is the inability to separate a fantasy from reality.

 

[JamieB]

Just an observation

I find it interesting that the people on this thread who are harshing on those who choose online as a starting point for BDSM experiences are distinctly missing on another thread posted by Xepter, "New Dom Needing Advice."

How about helping people out with your experience and wisdom instead of just browbeating them?

J

 

[JMohegan]

Again, what I think is potentially dangerous is the inability to separate a fantasy from reality.

I agree 100%, but I'd also say that focusing on the venue is distracting and ultimately beside the point.

What's described in the opening post obviously isn't D/s -- even the OP made that point! But it was some sort of salacious encounter, no? Just because it sounds dull as hell to me, doesn't mean someone else can't get off on it. People get off on stuff I find boring or turnoffs all the time.

I don't understand why so few people here seem able to identify with the essence of the situation described by the OP. I can't possibly be the only person on this board who has sexually interacted with people I don't know very well, or even complete strangers. The key issue here, as I see it, is: What do you do the morning after foolin' around outside the context of an established relationship?

One option is to resolve never to interact with that person again. Valid, to be sure, though the drawback is loss of any potential for future encounters. (The critical word here being potential.)

Another option is to contact the other person and express interest in getting to know one another better and getting together again. Online or off, I don't see what's wrong with this option - though as I commented earlier, from my perspective there are ways to do this that would be more productive than others.

 

[EmpressFi]

I don't like to piss people off, Empess. So let me explain why I've reacted the way I have.

I am not just being sarcastic for sarcasm's sake. I really believe there is some danger in not being able to separate fantasy from reality. It's not simply a matter of online=bad. This right now is online. It's different from having a conversation in real life, actually. There are some things about that that's better, and some not so much. But I am tired of the inability to distinguish online from real time, and fantasy from reality (two separate points). It's not healthy, and in some cases it can be dangerous.



I don't think online = bad in all cases. I do think there is a problem when fantasy cannot be distinguished from reality. In this thread, people have discussed a fantasy as if it were real, and I find it misleading and annoying.

I absolutely believe your experience is real and wonderful. But we have all seen situations where it didn't work out so well.

Hell, I met my current PYL on collarme. I received only a handful of emails on that site I would consider sent by non-crazy people. I don't recommend the place. But as weird luck would have it, a non-crazyjerkoff emailed me and we met for a drink about a month later. So stranger shit has happened. It's not that online is bad. Precautions simply need to be taken, just as you would in real life, and then some if you don't have a reference for this person. Again, what I think is potentially dangerous is the inability to separate a fantasy from reality.

and that does not come across as "you must be stupid".. I have no issue with someone saying it's not as intense as face to face or that you need to be more cautious. I know I'm extremely lucky that Malin and I are still together after 12 years when we met online. And I know that I really lucked out meeting Master online ~ although to be honest we were friends 3 years before becoming more. I really dont have an issue with what anyone says. It's HOW it's said. And I'm not pissed, well not entirely, and not at what you've said. I get upset with the use of ridicule and sarcasm hidden under the guise of intelligence that is used around here when someone says something that isnt agreed with. Someone has a different opinion from yours and instead of saying that they think differently than you (in the general sense, not specific), jokes and an overwhelming amount of sometimes bitter sarcasm is used to oppress to the point that many feel there is no longer a point to post anything at all. That is what makes me sad