Ignoring as a punishment.

[BiBunny]

I'd also like to add that it's not solely the dominant's responsibility to take care of the sub. I'm sorry, even if you're a 24/7 slave, you still have a responsibility to take care of yourself, no matter what.

 

[girlofurdreams]

I'd also like to add that it's not solely the dominant's responsibility to take care of the sub. I'm sorry, even if you're a 24/7 slave, you still have a responsibility to take care of yourself, no matter what.

i'm with you there bunny

 

[minx1]

(I'm just popping in to say I just had a geeking out on JM moment... well said.)

i'm with you there bunny

Absolutely, so am I. Which is why people who have been abused will try to protect themselves from it happening again or triggering harmful emotions, first and foremost.

I will wait and see what others say still. I know there are people who share my thoughts.

JM thanks for your post. I am still at work and will try to respond later, when i can think about it. Though just as an aside, I wasn't talking about my relationship with D, I was talking generally from my pov in terms of any relationship; D/s or vanilla and attempting to explaining why I think it is a hard limit or unacceptable for those who said it was.



Hi cutie mouse!

 

[FFOTS4Life]

In a private setting, hard limits have never protected anyone from anything.

Minx, I say this not to discourage you from declaring limits, but because I believe it is an important point for s-types to focus on and really comprehend.

If you're tied up in some guy's bedroom and he gets the urge do whatever it is that scat people do with their bodily functions, the ONLY thing holding him back will be his character. His regard for you, his investment in the relationship, his interpersonal intelligence, and his sense of honor. That's it.

Whether he has agreed to a scat hard limit, or you have a "no-limits" relationship and he understands your medical views, issues, & aversions, it makes no difference. The bottom line is the same. He's gonna do what he wants to do, and you can't stop him.

Which is why I understand what Netzach means when she writes: "Telling me what I can and can't do is not on the table. I'm a remarkably soft and creamy-centered compassionate and intuitive donut with a huge benign and loving core - if you can't see and trust that and just give me the info, what exactly are we doing here?"

A man of character would take the information about your prior experiences and adjust his behavior accordingly. A passive aggressive idiot, manipulative fool, or uncaring bastard would not. Those statements are true, irrespective of whatever hard limit agreements may, or may not, have been spoken.

A man of character will make mistakes, but when it comes to maintaining your fundamental health & well-being - he won't stop trying. The passive aggressive, manipulative, or uncaring guy may put on a good show and promise whatever you demand in order to obtain your love & devotion and get what he wants - but when he tires of that it will end. Your heart's on the line, it's too late to pretend otherwise, and he starts ignoring/abusing you and you're screwed.

I can see why a hard limit agreement on whatever type of ignoring triggers the nasties might be comforting to someone who had been abused. The prefatory discussion would convey a lot of information, and the open acknowledgment of the potential for damage might reassure. If you and your D are comfortable with whatever has been agreed to, that's obviously more than fine.

Just remember, Minx, that there's no adequate substitute for character. When it comes to "protection of one's self", that's *all* that really matters.

Wow I thought that this was very well said.

Although I also agree with Bibunny (though I am speaking as someone who is not a 24/7 slave...as pointed out earlier) that the sub also has a responsiblity to themselves.

I guess you have to find that happy medium. You can't be completely dependant on your Dom but you also have to give him/her your full faith that they will do what is best for you...in regards to all aspects of your life and that includes limits and health.

I don't know if I could do that...I certianly admire all of you who do!!!

I can't imagine giving up so such a great amount of control over my life for a 24/7 lifestyle...especially if punishments included being ignored...like I said I really do admire all of you who have taken that step.

 

[Bandit58]

Absolutely, so am I. Which is why people who have been abused will try to protect themselves from it happening again or triggering harmful emotions, first and foremost.

I will wait and see what others say still. I know there are people who share my thoughts.

JM thanks for your post. I am still at work and will try to respond later, when i can think about it. Though just as an aside, I wasn't talking about my relationship with D, I was talking generally from my pov in terms of any relationship; D/s or vanilla and attempting to explaining why I think it is a hard limit or unacceptable for those who said it was.



Hi cutie mouse!

The "silent treatment" I went through as part of the abusive marriage sometimes lasted for days as opposed to a few hours of "cool down". My ex was manipulative even though he may have not realised that was what he was doing. Combined with putdowns on an almost daily basis it is no wonder that my self esteem took a beating.

I have a few triggers as well, angry voices being one. I try to avoid confrontation wherever possible. Am I going to tell Sir that He may not yell at me? He has, a few times. Mainly when I was in a bit of a panic at something going wrong during home dialysis and I needed to be "centred" and focused. I might be upset about it afterward, but we talk then and I know that He yelled at me for a very good reason, and it was the behaviour he yelled at me for not me per se.

During our relationship, which is heading for the 5 year mark, I've never had to be punished. I asked Him how He would punish me if He ever had to - I was told a few hard strokes of the crop with no warm up Quick, simple and over in a few minutes. However I'm sure the ache in my heart over having disappointed Him that much would last far longer than the pain of the welts

 

[EmpressFi]

Absolutely, so am I. Which is why people who have been abused will try to protect themselves from it happening again or triggering harmful emotions, first and foremost.

I will wait and see what others say still. I know there are people who share my thoughts.

JM thanks for your post. I am still at work and will try to respond later, when i can think about it. Though just as an aside, I wasn't talking about my relationship with D, I was talking generally from my pov in terms of any relationship; D/s or vanilla and attempting to explaining why I think it is a hard limit or unacceptable for those who said it was.



Hi cutie mouse!

I share your thoughts, but I think we're at an impasse. There are some who will never see what we're saying as anything but trying to control from the bottom or trying to dictate their behavior.

But I will say this. I too have a problem when I'm angry. See, my mind holds on to every little weakness, every dark fear a person has and when I'm that angry that I really need to cool off... that part of my mind takes over my mouth and suddenly I will say the very thing that will stab you right to the heart. I know this of myself, I saw the signs because that's the way my mother was, and I didnt want to hurt those I love the way she hurt me and my brother. So I've told those around me that if I say 4 little words, "I need some time..." or even fewer sometimes with a growled, "Not...now...." then it means I'm going away until I'm calm enough to talk rationally. Ask Malin, he learned it quite early in our marriage.

But that's not ignoring them. It's 4 words... c'mon, how much time does it really take to show someone you're in a relationship with that much respect. But to take someone you're in a relationship with, let them think everything is fine, then disappear or even worse, stay around but dont answer them when they speak and act as if they never existed... that isnt educational, that's mean and spiteful and downright childish.

 

[minx1]

In a private setting, hard limits have never protected anyone from anything.

Minx, I say this not to discourage you from declaring limits, but because I believe it is an important point for s-types to focus on and really comprehend.

If you're tied up in some guy's bedroom and he gets the urge do whatever it is that scat people do with their bodily functions, the ONLY thing holding him back will be his character. His regard for you, his investment in the relationship, his interpersonal intelligence, and his sense of honor. That's it.

Whether he has agreed to a scat hard limit, or you have a "no-limits" relationship and he understands your medical views, issues, & aversions, it makes no difference. The bottom line is the same. He's gonna do what he wants to do, and you can't stop him.

I completely agree with everything you have said here John. I am saying that in terms of a relationship it is a deal breaker for me, as many others here have said. In any relationship whether it is D/s or vanilla it is a hard limit and if pushed, it will be a deal breaker.

I except what you are saying, but is there not also a danger in saying it, that pyls will think well whats the point in having hard limits then?
Imho to be able to say that this is a limit or a hard limit for me as a pyl, is a fundamental prerequisite for a relationship, but I agree that they can not be relied on alone.

Which is why I understand what Netzach means when she writes: "Telling me what I can and can't do is not on the table. I'm a remarkably soft and creamy-centered compassionate and intuitive donut with a huge benign and loving core - if you can't see and trust that and just give me the info, what exactly are we doing here?"

A man of character would take the information about your prior experiences and adjust his behavior accordingly. A passive aggressive idiot, manipulative fool, or uncaring bastard would not. Those statements are true, irrespective of whatever hard limit agreements may, or may not, have been spoken.

A man of character will make mistakes, but when it comes to maintaining your fundamental health & well-being - he won't stop trying. The passive aggressive, manipulative, or uncaring guy may put on a good show and promise whatever you demand in order to obtain your love & devotion and get what he wants - but when he tires of that it will end. Your heart's on the line, it's too late to pretend otherwise, and he starts ignoring/abusing you and you're screwed.

I can also see that some PYLs don't see it as an issue because they are gentle when they need to be and can be trusted to be responsible. If thats the case then their pyls are fortunate.

And I am in absolute agreement with your comments about a man of character. As I said in my post I admire PYLs who realise they need to learn, who can see that their approach may need to be modified and who willkeep trying when he makes mistakes.

So then I get a little confused when its also said a PYL will use it whenever, wherever and however I want. Because I can. That seems at odds with the man of character you just described.

I can see why a hard limit agreement on whatever type of ignoring triggers the nasties might be comforting to someone who had been abused. The prefatory discussion would convey a lot of information, and the open acknowledgment of the potential for damage might reassure. If you and your D are comfortable with whatever has been agreed to, that's obviously more than fine.

Just remember, Minx, that there's no adequate substitute for character. When it comes to "protection of one's self", that's *all* that really matters.

Yes again I agree John.

Thats the thing I don't really understand why people seem to take exception to my opinion. I have actually said there are times when ignoring would work as an effective punishment with no long term negative effects. I said that for me, if it was ever going to be used it would have to be done in a controlled manner and finally I said that it is a perfectly legitimate limit for someone who has been abused previously.
I can't work out what the problem is. I'm not saying that ignoring should never ever be used, yet it feels as though others are questioning whether experiences of abuse are a credible reason to have a hard limit. Again if I am wrong I apologise, but seriously thats what it seems like.

Which makes me wonder whose opinion actually matters when it comes to setting hard limits? Do PYLS make a habit of telling their pyls that their hard limts aren't viable? Thats a genuine question btw.

I am a sub and an intelligent woman. I just happen to be one who has gone through the wringer a bit. I am intelligent enough to know what may break me, intelligent enough to protect myself and intelligent enough to decide my own limits. Should they not be respected?

 

[JMohegan]

Wow I thought that this was very well said.

Although I also agree with Bibunny (though I am speaking as someone who is not a 24/7 slave...as pointed out earlier) that the sub also has a responsiblity to themselves.

I guess you have to find that happy medium. You can't be completely dependant on your Dom but you also have to give him/her your full faith that they will do what is best for you...in regards to all aspects of your life and that includes limits and health.

I don't know if I could do that...I certianly admire all of you who do!!!

I can't imagine giving up so such a great amount of control over my life for a 24/7 lifestyle...especially if punishments included being ignored...like I said I really do admire all of you who have taken that step.

Thank you. I agree with BiBunny, too.

I have never, and would never, promise to always do what's best in regards to all aspects of a partner's life. I can not promise that, because: a - I may have no idea what's "best"at any given point in time, and b - no matter what I know, there will be times when I make mistakes, and c - I'm just not into the Dom guiding/steering/taking her by the hand and walking her through life flavor of D/s.

What I can promise, and have always promised, is that I will never stop trying to maintain her fundamental health & well-being. Meaning: I will never intentionally do anything to cause her material & sustained harm.

 

[JMohegan]

I completely agree with everything you have said here John. I am saying that in terms of a relationship it is a deal breaker for me, as many others here have said. In any relationship whether it is D/s or vanilla it is a hard limit and if pushed, it will be a deal breaker.

I except what you are saying, but is there not also a danger in saying it, that pyls will think well whats the point in having hard limits then?
Imho to be able to say that this is a limit or a hard limit for me as a pyl, is a fundamental prerequisite for a relationship, but I agree that they can not be relied on alone.

I would say that the point of having hard limits is to convey information. They are shortcuts, like checklists. A substitute for actual conversation and time spent getting to know a person.

Extremely useful in public or casual play settings. Also useful when people hop into a relationship quickly, and want to start getting their kink on within a short period of time.

I agree with you that conveying information of this type is a fundamental prerequisite for a relationship, from a safety perspective. But declaration of a hard limit is just one way of conveying it.

I can also see that some PYLs don't see it as an issue because they are gentle when they need to be and can be trusted to be responsible. If thats the case then their pyls are fortunate.

And I am in absolute agreement with your comments about a man of character. As I said in my post I admire PYLs who realise they need to learn, who can see that their approach may need to be modified and who willkeep trying when he makes mistakes.

Would a man of character apply the blanket theory of ''I will use it whenever and wherever I want, because I can''? I think not.

If he's a mood-driven control freak like me, then yes. Sure he would.

But I won't *want* to do something that triggers harmful reactions and damages my partner. I won't *want* to destroy her, or her trust.

Actually, and in the interest of full sadistic disclosure here, I will tell you that it is entirely possible for me to have the erotic desire to cause permanent harm. But my regard for her, my investment in the relationship, my knowledge of consequences, and my honor, all combine to override that desire so it becomes something that I would never actually do.

Yes again I agree John.

Thats the thing I don't really understand why people seem to take exception to my opinion. I have actually said there are times when ignoring would work as an effective punishment with no long term negative effects. I said that for me, if it was ever going to be used it would have to be done in a controlled manner and finally I said that it is a perfectly legitimate limit for someone who has been abused previously.
I can't work out what the problem is. I'm not saying that ignoring should never ever be used, yet it feels as though others are questioning whether experiences of abuse are a credible reason to have a hard limit. Again if I am wrong I apologise, but seriously thats what it seems like.

Which makes me wonder whose opinion actually matters when it comes to setting hard limits? Do PYLS make a habit of telling their pyls that their hard limts aren't viable? Thats a genuine question btw.

I am a sub and an intelligent woman. I just happen to be one who has gone through the wringer a bit. I am intelligent enough to know what may break me, intelligent enough to protect myself and intelligent enough to decide my own limits. Should they not be respected?

Knowledge of personal history, triggers, and breaking points absolutely *should* be respected. No matter how that knowledge is conveyed.

 

[Homburg]

I might be upset about it afterward, but we talk then and I know that He yelled at me for a very good reason, and it was the behaviour he yelled at me for not me per se.

This is stunningly important.

--

Thats the thing I don't really understand why people seem to take exception to my opinion. I have actually said there are times when ignoring would work as an effective punishment with no long term negative effects. I said that for me, if it was ever going to be used it would have to be done in a controlled manner and finally I said that it is a perfectly legitimate limit for someone who has been abused previously.
I can't work out what the problem is. I'm not saying that ignoring should never ever be used, yet it feels as though others are questioning whether experiences of abuse are a credible reason to have a hard limit. Again if I am wrong I apologise, but seriously thats what it seems like.

In my case, it has nothing to do with abuse. I has to do with the simple fact that I feel like this does not belong in the "hard limits" column, or in the area of limits at all. It's not a limit in my eyes, but a core relationship factor. It's like saying "Hard limit: Don't break me".

Which makes me wonder whose opinion actually matters when it comes to setting hard limits? Do PYLS make a habit of telling their pyls that their hard limts aren't viable? Thats a genuine question btw.

Yes. If a pyl tell me that, oh geeze, eating in public is a hard limit, I'm going to tell them it is non-viable. Or that talking in English is a hard limit. Non-viable. Or that hugging is a hard limit. PYLs commonly express opinions on the viability of hard limits. All the frikken time, in fact. And that is when you come to agreements, or shake hands and walk away.

I'm a little surprised that you are as bothered by this discussion. At the end of the day, it is a compatibility issue. I'm dealing with someone with the same sort of general stressors that are being discussed here, and if she'd said to me that ignoring her was a hard limit, I would have told her the same things I've told you. "It's not appropriate for this to be a hard limit in any relationship I am in, but I will respect your history and needs nonetheless, and you will trust me to handle these situations with decency and delicacy". If she could accept that, great. If not, well, she obviously does not trust me enough.

By the same token, I'm not going to enter into a relationship with someone whose list of hard limits is longer than my arm. If a pyl has so many limits that I can't easily rattle them off the top of my head, I will inevitably forget one. Not safe for either of us, so no thanks.

I am a sub and an intelligent woman. I just happen to be one who has gone through the wringer a bit. I am intelligent enough to know what may break me, intelligent enough to protect myself and intelligent enough to decide my own limits. Should they not be respected?

Of course. The difference in opinion between you and I is not whether or not you should decide your limits, whether or not this is harmful, or anything other than whether or not this is a valid concept to shoehorn into a hard limit list.

To ask a question, how would you express it? Perhaps your wording would make it clear and focused enough to not have it be a sweeping behaviour demand on the part of the PYL

 

[Kathykitten]

I use this on my own sub.

She gets a "time-out" preferably sitting on a chair facing a corner, and will stay for 15-20-30-60 minutes all depending. She is told clearly what she did wrong, and is ordered to think over the situation as she is being punished. Upon return she writes up a few lines on what she did wrong, a sincere appology, and finally thanks me for receiving such help to improve herself. (I always enjoy that immencely). If I am not sattisfied with her appology, she goes right back into the corner.


I think punishment is unique for each relationship and has to be sculpted for each individual. If the sub has been through some tough times regarding abandonment, then you probably shouldn't be using this kind of treatment.

 

[minx1]

Yes. If a pyl tell me that, oh geeze, eating in public is a hard limit, I'm going to tell them it is non-viable. Or that talking in English is a hard limit. Non-viable. Or that hugging is a hard limit. PYLs commonly express opinions on the viability of hard limits. All the frikken time, in fact. And that is when you come to agreements, or shake hands and walk away.

perhaps those are just bad examples but its hardly the same as eating in public or hugging. Infact it almost feels like you belittle it in doing so.

I'm a little surprised that you are as bothered by this discussion. At the end of the day, it is a compatibility issue. I'm dealing with someone with the same sort of general stressors that are being discussed here, and if she'd said to me that ignoring her was a hard limit, I would have told her the same things I've told you. "It's not appropriate for this to be a hard limit in any relationship I am in, but I will respect your history and needs nonetheless, and you will trust me to handle these situations with decency and delicacy". If she could accept that, great. If not, well, she obviously does not trust me enough.

By the same token, I'm not going to enter into a relationship with someone whose list of hard limits is longer than my arm. If a pyl has so many limits that I can't easily rattle them off the top of my head, I will inevitably forget one. Not safe for either of us, so no thanks.

Oh you misunderstand I am not bothered by it. I am completely at ease with my opinion. I said I didn't understand people who hold opinions like yours.

I have said repeatedly that at the end of the day the PYL or myself can walk away if its an issue.

I never suggested that this was part of a list of limits as long as your arm. I actually have very few things as a hard limit. Again thats your choice, but pyls are entitled to limits however many or inconvenient they may be.

To ask a question, how would you express it? Perhaps your wording would make it clear and focused enough to not have it be a sweeping behaviour demand on the part of the PYL

Firstly I would also point out that this is not just an opinion held by me. There are others here who share it as there are others who hold your opinion.

Secondly I have already expressed it, quite clearly. As I have already said time and again, I would actually consider it if it was handled in a controlled way.
At the same time I do believe it is an acceptable hard limit for some people and some relationships. If you don't so be it - thats your choice.

I think its a really unreasonable response to see something like this as a 'sweeping behaviour demand, for one thing its not sweeping or general its quite specific. I am baffled as to why you think it is unreasonable limit, but its your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am to mine.

Perhaps its the term hard limit that you have a problem with. Yet I don't really understand that either. I mean if a pyl explained to a PYL as they embarked on a relationship that ignoring as a punishment would be a deal breaker for them.....is that actually any different?

 

[Homburg]

perhaps those are just bad examples but its hardly the same as eating in public or hugging. Infact it almost feels like you belittle it in doing so.

You asked a blanket question about tops taking exception to hard limits. I gave random purposefully extreme examples so as to separate them from my personal bias. If I used caning as an example, that would just be me. Choosing something like hugging or what not removes me from the equation.

You are reading derision in my posts that is just not there, Minx. I'm starting to be bothered by this, as I've said time and again that I am actively in a relationship dealing with these issues. I'm the guy that asked my pyl to go the her therapist like she is supposed to, to help deal with these issues. I've lost sleep staying up talking her through rough patches. I've done a load of reading trying to understand what she is going through and what will happen next. Why would I be belittling these problems in discussion with you?

I have already expressed it, quite clearly. As I have already said time and again, I would actually consider it if it was handled in a controlled way.

Not clear, really. I've read back through your posts and saw that you express it as a hard limit, then say that if it were done in a controlled, acceptable fashion you would consider it. That's a soft limit, so far as I understand those terms. So, no, I am not clear on your take on the subject, and this is why I asked how you would word it.

I think its a really unreasonable response to see something like this as a 'sweeping behaviour demand, for one thing its not sweeping or general its quite specific. I am baffled as to why you think it is unreasonable limit, but its your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am to mine.

I don't see it as an "unreasonable limit". I don't see it as a limit at all. Please be clear on this. It is not a matter of me being reasonable or not vis a vis damage, abuse, etc. It's a conceptual thing. Limits, for me, are simple negatives. This is not a simple negative, as it requires further definition and discussion. At that point it moves out of the realm of limits IMO.

Perhaps its the term hard limit that you have a problem with. Yet I don't really understand that either. I mean if a pyl explained to a PYL as they embarked on a relationship that ignoring as a punishment would be a deal breaker for them.....is that actually any different?

Maybe. In my world, hard limits are no-fly zones, don't mess with them, and don't go near them under any circumstances. If caning is a hard limit, don't pick up that cane. In your world apparently they're okay if done in a reasonable manner. To me, that is a soft limit, as stated above. Maybe we do have a core disconnect on what the term "hard limit" means.

 

[minx1]

You are reading derision in my posts that is just not there, Minx. I'm starting to be bothered by this, as I've said time and again that I am actively in a relationship dealing with these issues. I'm the guy that asked my pyl to go the her therapist like she is supposed to, to help deal with these issues. I've lost sleep staying up talking her through rough patches. I've done a load of reading trying to understand what she is going through and what will happen next. Why would I be belittling these problems in discussion with you?

This not about you Homborg, it never has been. I have never referred to or implied anything about the way you conduct your relationship. Unless you count me posting a 'lovely'' in response to Mis's post. With respect its not an issue for me. If I read any derision in your posts it could be because of the way you express yourself sometimes. I refer to yesterday when ITW ''intervened'' because of the way she interpreted your post to me. I interpreted that the same way as she did.
Its not personal - I am just defending my position and view point as forceably as you do yours.

You know that I could say similar to you. I'm the woman who has been abused, I'm the woman who has lost sleep and so much more. I am the woman who is asking that people view my abuse as a valid limit for some things. I could say that I find your inability ro accept this as a hard limit to me, as bothersome. But I don't. I don't because I don't think its appropriate for me and i don't because at the end of the day its just you expressing opinion Homborg and one that I happen to believe is wrong.

Not clear, really. I've read back through your posts and saw that you express it as a hard limit, then say that if it were done in a controlled, acceptable fashion you would consider it. That's a soft limit, so far as I understand those terms. So, no, I am not clear on your take on the subject, and this is why I asked how you would word it.

ok then I will clarify it one more time.

If it is done in a controlled manner I would try it. By controlled as I explained the last time I mean the facts laid out, the times scale set and being told what I could expect to happen. As I said then, it would still be a punishment to me even though some would argue it is diluted.

I then said that done differently ie. not controlled would be a deal breaker on a persponal level for me.

I am arguing however that I think it is a perfectly acceptable hard limit for people who have been abused to have.

I don't see it as an "unreasonable limit". I don't see it as a limit at all. Please be clear on this. It is not a matter of me being reasonable or not vis a vis damage, abuse, etc. It's a conceptual thing. Limits, for me, are simple negatives. This is not a simple negative, as it requires further definition and discussion. At that point it moves out of the realm of limits IMO.

Maybe. In my world, hard limits are no-fly zones, don't mess with them, and don't go near them under any circumstances. If caning is a hard limit, don't pick up that cane. In your world apparently they're okay if done in a reasonable manner. To me, that is a soft limit, as stated above. Maybe we do have a core disconnect on what the term "hard limit" means.

Yes we do.
And to be honest my view is as likely to change as yours is.

 

[Homburg]

If I read any derision in your posts it could be because of the way you express yourself sometimes. I refer to yesterday when ITW ''intervened'' because of the way she interpreted your post to me. I interpreted that the same way as she did.

That specific case was a result of a mistake on my part, and I made clear of that fact, as well as apologising. When I actively want to be offensive I'm usually pretty clear about it

ok then I will clarify it one more time.

If it is done in a controlled manner I would try it. By controlled as I explained the last time I mean the facts laid out, the times scale set and being told what I could expect to happen. As I said then, it would still be a punishment to me even though some would argue it is diluted.

I then said that done differently ie. not controlled would be a deal breaker on a persponal level for me.

I am arguing however that I think it is a perfectly acceptable hard limit for people who have been abused to have.

Thank you. Okay, not trying to belabour the point, just to understand.

By my take on limits, it is not a hard limit for you. It is a soft limit that is very touchy. I might not be expressing that well, but I'm trying to get this. Not that it necessarily matters, but I'm far less bothered by the idea of this as a soft limit. Probably a fine point, but it's still how I look at it.

And I do not think that setting a time limit or other expectations dilutes the punishment. To me that makes it a punishment, not just random neglect. Then again, punishment, in my eyes, does not have the intent of making the pyl feel bad. The intent to punishment, of whatever sort, is correcting unacceptable behaviour. While it can be argued that making a pyl feel awful makes the punishment stand out more, lack of communication and explanation of said punishment is just going to lead to mixed messages, misunderstanding, etc.

Yes we do.
And to be honest my view is as likely to change as yours is.

Nah, I'm more reasonable. You can convince me

 

[minx1]

Nah, I'm more reasonable. You can convince me

Lmao.

I will reply properly tomorrow but I am exhausted lol. Work is full on and then having to come here and debate is knackering my brain lol.

but I just had to reply to that one! On this one you are not for turning!

When can we call stalemate?

 

[Homburg]

Lmao.

I will reply properly tomorrow but I am exhausted lol. Work is full on and then having to come here and debate is knackering my brain lol.

but I just had to reply to that one! On this one you are not for turning!

When can we call stalemate?

I am totally convincable!

"Convincable" looks wrong. Might have something to do with the fact that I've never once typed that word out... Nah.

 

[subbie_333]

ok then I will clarify it one more time.

If it is done in a controlled manner I would try it. By controlled as I explained the last time I mean the facts laid out, the times scale set and being told what I could expect to happen.

Maybe this is the problem with this entire thread. What you have stated here is my understanding of IGNORING AS PUNISHMENT. Yet, this thread has been *FILLED* with all sorts of other things that has gotten just about everybody's panties in a wad - basically off-topic as far as i am concerned.



Abuse is bad, and, we don't approve of it (but, off-topic to this thread)

Neglect is bad, and, we don't approve of it (but, off-topic to this thread)

Some people are ignorant, and, some of those people choose not to change (but, off-topic to this thread)

Most if not all people are damaged in some manner, and, some need professional help (but, mostly off-topic to this thread)

Everybody is different, meaning that many wonderful people are not a good match for each other (maybe on-topic to this thread)




So, if it is possible that we might not be able to agree to disagree, can we at least agree what is on-topic for this thread?!?!?!!?


.

 

[subbie_333]

I am totally convincable!

( raises an eyebrow )

"Convincable" looks wrong. Might have something to do with the fact that I've never once typed that word out... Nah.

( whispers a suggestion to minx that she does something to distract him, like flashing her boobs or getting Betticus to flirt with him )

 

[Homburg]

( raises an eyebrow )

I'm failing to look sincere, aren't I? Damn...

( whispers a suggestion to minx that she does something to distract him, like flashing her boobs or getting Betticus to flirt with him )

That whole Betticus flirt-thread was a hoot.

 

[ataxia.girl]

So, if it is possible that we might not be able to agree to disagree, can we at least agree what is on-topic for this thread?!?!?!!?

Not really since we've all pretty much agreed that controlled "time-outs" where the sub knows exactly how long its going to last are okay.

Its just not nearly as interesting to discuss that. i guess we could ask Homburg if he thinks its okay to make controlled "time-outs" a Hard Limit. i think maybe you could argue it is in the same way a sub might say you can't put me in a cage. In that case it may not be a valid Hard Limit for him but could be valid in another D/s couple.

i agree with what many have said here. You can't make being a shitty Dominant a Hard Limit. The Dominant may not know they are shitty or even what being a shitty Dominant is. Your only recourse there is to try to educate your shitty Dominant or leave.

 

[subbie_333]

I'm failing to look sincere, aren't I? Damn...

Put a positive spin on it Dude:

You are a Man of Your convictions

 

[subbie_333]

Not really

 

[ataxia.girl]

i'm the last person you want around if you want to try and STOP talking about something.

 

[subbie_333]

i'm the last person you want around if you want to try and STOP talking about something.

( makes a mental note to contact ataxia if one of my threads is dying )