infidelities

[bunny bondage]

*sniffles* i believe in the sisterhood, chele! and how VERY moving!

and i REALLY hope you read EVERY WORD, mylovemysweet! of everybody's posts! we're not just a bunch of bitter bdsm'ers here, we're really trying to save you from truckloads of pain. i'm really glad chele was here with her tome of experience to share with you. i know he seems wonderful, like the greatest guy you've ever met. i know the how strong desire is, and how easy it is to allow yourself to be driven by emotion. but PUH-LEASE respect yourself enough to find someone who deserves you, who is devoted SOLEY to you. you're worth it!

 

[James G 5]

but PUH-LEASE respect yourself enough to find someone who deserves you, who is devoted SOLEY to you. you're worth it!

Wait, what if she finds someoneS who're devoted to her as well as each other & she them?
Monogamy isn't ALWAYS the right way, a group, sharing, or open path CAN work & be good
But they MUST be based in openess and honesty, not decpetion & sneaking around!
(Just had to throw that in bunny )

She IS worth love, honor, and trust
So are we all, and hopefully some day more people will realize it

 

[bunny bondage]

Wait, what if she finds someoneS who're devoted to her as well as each other & she them?
Monogamy isn't ALWAYS the right way, a group, sharing, or open path CAN work & be good
But they MUST be based in openess and honesty, not decpetion & sneaking around!
(Just had to throw that in bunny )

She IS worth love, honor, and trust
So are we all, and hopefully some day more people will realize it

*hangs head in shame* ok, you're right james, i do forget that monogamy isn't always the right thing for people. let me rephrase: "find someone who is devoted to you on the same level that you are to them"

 

[James G 5]

*hangs head in shame* ok, you're right james, i do forget that monogamy isn't always the right thing for people. let me rephrase: "find someone who is devoted to you on the same level that you are to them"

Good girl
See folks, she CAN be taught

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Monogamy isn't a requirement...but honesty is. If this guy is unsatisfied in his current relationship, he needs to leave his current relationship, fix his current relationship, or redefine it. If the redefinition of his relationship includes being free to see other people, then that is acceptable. IF he is going to lie to his current SO, he'll lie to you, treat you like garbage, and throw you away.

 

[James G 5]

Monogamy isn't a requirement...but honesty is. If this guy is unsatisfied in his current relationship, he needs to leave his current relationship, fix his current relationship, or redefine it. If the redefinition of his relationship includes being free to see other people, then that is acceptable. IF he is going to lie to his current SO, he'll lie to you, treat you like garbage, and throw you away.

Yep
Honesty & trust
You can run Enron or the office of the president without them, but not a relationship

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Yep
Honesty & trust
You can run Enron or the office of the president without them, but not a relationship

LMAO

I'm currently 'involved' with a few different women, in various stages of relationships, and while I don't reveal details of any single relationship, I don't hide those relationships either. Mostly, it is just talk, most of it online, but some stuff goes on in real life. I don't lead people on, I don't make claims that I can't back up, and I don't expect anything less than the honesty and respect I give to be returned. Either way, I am up-front about my activities, and I don't feel any guilt about it.

Although I'm sure this guy doesn't have any guilt either, in his case it is because he is a toad.

 

[James G 5]

LMAO

I'm currently 'involved' with a few different women, in various stages of relationships, and while I don't reveal details of any single relationship, I don't hide those relationships either. Mostly, it is just talk, most of it online, but some stuff goes on in real life. I don't lead people on, I don't make claims that I can't back up, and I don't expect anything less than the honesty and respect I give to be returned. Either way, I am up-front about my activities, and I don't feel any guilt about it.

Although I'm sure this guy doesn't have any guilt either, in his case it is because he is a toad.

Yeah, a lack of guilt & care for others must make life SO much easier

I'm always honest with my partners.....the 2 women I spend the most time with know each other & talk all the time......heck, they're both on Lit so they're probably reading this LOL
Hi girls!

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Yeah, a lack of guilt & care for others must make life SO much easier

I'm always honest with my partners.....the 2 women I spend the most time with know each other & talk all the time......heck, they're both on Lit so they're probably reading this LOL
Hi girls!

LOL...I don't give names, but I don't lie either. Everyone I'm with knows that I'm with other people too. It is cool, in its way, because there is a certain amount of comfort to know that you know everything, and you can tell anything, because there's no reason to lie.

 

[MissTaken]

Sometimes I think I can be okay with this. But mostly I feel uncomfortable with it. I get the feeling that I'm diving into a swimming pool without any water in it.

Regardless of the discussion that may be colored by other's experiences or personal values, this post tells me to send you a clear message.

If it doesn't feel good, dont' do it!



Bottom line is that any D/s relationship should make all parties involved feel good.

I do believe there are times when a married man or woman seeks D/s outside their marriage and it isn't a negative thing for anyone involved.

But, if you don't like how the situation makes you feel, even if he can make you feel special, aroused, worthy and all those wonderful things, he isn't the One for you.

Never settle.

You are worth more than that.

 

[rosco rathbone]

He needs to keep giving you hope to stay. Men in these situations RARELY leave their wives. They've got a great thing going! Regular nooky at home, along with cooking, cleaning, and all the little wifely things. And then there is you - worshipping the ground he walks on, acting like teenagers in lover, kinky as hell sex. What more could a man want? Plus, if/when his wife finds out, there is the possibility she will be SO jealous that she will jump at any opportunity to please him. You will be dumped like yesterday's newspaper - and in a heartflash. Be prepared for the feeling of having your heart ripped from you and stomped under foot - that's what it feels like.

You got that right.

 

[evesdream]

Sometimes I think I can be okay with this. But mostly I feel uncomfortable with it. I get the feeling that I'm diving into a swimming pool without any water in it.

Flee, MyLoveMySweet! Flee! Flee!

 

[rosco rathbone]

It's a tiger eat mouse world out there.

 

[Cirrus]

Okay, I have been involved with married men before - only one time that I knew beforehand the man was married. The rest simply lied. Shall I tell you what you are in for? The script is always the same, believe me.

First. He says she doesn't satisfy him? HOGWASH! Chances are they are going at it at least 2 - 5 times a week. She may not want to try the more kinkier things he's interested in, yes. But he's gettin' his nooky, trust me. And you? You will simply be his "kink outlet". Can you live with that?

Second. Be prepared for the fact that every single holiday, every birthday, every special event in your life cannot be shared with him. He has another committment. He will not be there for you when you are invited to that wedding. And forget about the family bar-b-que - he's gotta be home. Expect that, except for the bedroom and the times he can get away, you will live your life as a single woman.

Third. He's Dominant. Or has dominant tendencies. Doms don't normally like to share. I know. My first Dominant was the married guy who I knew was married. I soon wised up to what was going on, and decided if I could be "something on the side", then I might as well continue to meet men and go out. Nope. Not possible. He would call at unexpected times, and if I wasn't home, he would expect a full accounting. He had a key to my apartment (dumb, DUMB move!!), and when I would get home from a date - there he would be, sitting in my livingroom, spoiling for a fight. I was expected to be devoted to him and him alone, no other men, whatsoever. Towards the end, he resented me going out with my girlfriends as he suspected I was doing it solely to meet other men.

Fourth. No matter what you may have planned, be expected to cancel it if he finds he can get away at the last minute. Have tickets to that special event and are going with a girlfriend? Expect him to ask you to cancel or give your ticket away because he suddenly found out he's got some free time that evenng and "needs" you, "wants" you, you are the "center of his universe". Then, after you've fallen for this and have cancelled on your girlfriend, you can expect the call telling you that plans have changed, his wife is still home, and he won't be able to make. "Sorry, sugarcakes. Maybe next time." This will happen more than once, so be prepared, and you better not pout about it! After, he gets away when he can, you know! He's making sacrifices, too!

Fifth. Practice what you will say when that inevitable day comes when the phone rings and the voice on the other end says, "I'm ___________ wife, I found your phone number...." Men who cheat almost always beg to be caught. He will leave your phone number in an open spot "accidently". He will carry your picture in the glove box of his car, and "forget" it was there when his wife took the car to get it washed. She will NOT blame him! She will blame you - for everything. Be prepared: when this call comes in? You will feel the floor fall from under you. The pit of your stomach will suddenly be in your throat. And the topper? When she tells you that you aren't the first, that he has done this before. Yeah, despite him telling you he's never met anyone like you. He has. He's done it before. And he was probably caught at it before.

Sixth. Think about having a man in your life who you are happy with. You try to please him, and he tells you that you are perfect - he wouldn't change a thing! Then you find that phone number, those panties that aren't yours, that picture of the naked woman. Think how you would feel. What would be in your heart? On your mind? How would you feel towards that other woman? That is how your relationship will make his wife feel. I firmly believe in the sisterhood of women - we need to stand together. In helping him to betray her, you are betraying the sisterhood to which you belong. (And yes, I know this is only my opinion, but I am of the mind that I will not do to another woman what I do not want another woman to do to me)

Seventh. No matter what he says - and he'll get there eventually to keep you, believe me - never, ever believe it when he says he wants to leave "her" for you. He will tell you he can't because of finances, the kids, the house, the family, career, anything and everything. But, if he doesn't hold out some sort of "carrot" over time, he knows he will lose you. He needs to keep giving you hope to stay. Men in these situations RARELY leave their wives. They've got a great thing going! Regular nooky at home, along with cooking, cleaning, and all the little wifely things. And then there is you - worshipping the ground he walks on, acting like teenagers in lover, kinky as hell sex. What more could a man want? Plus, if/when his wife finds out, there is the possibility she will be SO jealous that she will jump at any opportunity to please him. You will be dumped like yesterday's newspaper - and in a heartflash. Be prepared for the feeling of having your heart ripped from you and stomped under foot - that's what it feels like.

Eighth. After this entire fiasco is ended (and it will - unpleasantly, I assure you), expect your next relationship to be an even more difficult experience. Your feeling of trust will be shattered. How do you know the next guy won't do the same thing? He's going to have to work harder, and that is going to cause resentment, eventually. Of course, this could always be a "transitional" relationship, but eventually you will want to get serious with some one. And always, in the back of your mind, will be those niggling doubts about how REALLY happy your man is, and if he hasn't in fact found some one like you once were for a little fun on the side.

Your conscious seems to be speaking to you loud and clear. Listen to it! This man is not free to give you trust or a relationship. I think you know that. Physical stuff is good. And can be had by almost anybody. I don't know you, but I've yet to meet a woman that I could say is so low that she should put herself into the living hell I went through. And it is a living hell. Find heaven on earth instead. It's out there, you just need to find it.

No offense, but I felt I had to quote the whole thing.

You speak from your experience, which is never wrong. But your experience is not always the whole ball o' wax.

First: not always. I have been involved with married men, at least 2 I know for sure weren't getting DOODLY at home, not even the obligatory kiss goodnight.

Second: OK, I give you that one...total truth, often sucks.

Third: Complete, total, utter bullshit. The last guy I was with, VERY married, actually ENCOURAGED me to go out with friends, and actually hoped at some point I'd meet a nice single guy to settle down with. He cared for me and I for him...but he and I both knew that he was not my future. He was also a switch.

Fourth: Also bullshit. My ex respected when I had made other plans, because he knew he often COULDN'T get away, and when he could it would often be short notice, and didn't expect me to hang out and wait by the phone.

Fifth: Again, utter bullshit. Geez, I'm on a roll. EVERY married guy I've been with wanted to stay married. The last one MEANT till death do us part, even though SHE (and I met her on several occasions, I know this to be true...she told me as much) felt no passion for him, but felt herself "too old" to go "back on the market"...and so shut him out physically and emotionally. He promised her he'd never leave her, and provided for her and cared for her in her times of need. But he had needs too...both physical and emotional. He found them with me.

Sixth: You stated an opinion. It's not one I agree with, but an opinion is only that.

Seventh: No no NO!!! NEVER my experience. All of the married guys I have been involved with in any respect have all told me they were married at the start and wanted to remain so. I was cool with it. I have never ONCE been told "I'm going to leave her for you".

Eighth: Bunk. My married ex and I are still very close friends...in fact, he was over with breakfast this morning, and afterward we took a totally platonic late-morning nap. No sex, not even any HINT of sex...it was just nice to be close to someone for a while. We have decided that we didn't work out for a reason, and that if we were to resume a relationship, the same problems would still be there. But we remain very close, and occasionally a LITTLE physically close, but in a comfortable sense...not in a passionate sense.

Sorry Chele, but you have a knack for finding liers, it seems. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, but there are a LOT of circumstances that can figure into things.

 

[James G 5]

No offense, but I felt I had to quote the whole thing.

You speak from your experience, which is never wrong. But your experience is not always the whole ball o' wax.
<snip>
Sorry Chele, but you have a knack for finding liers, it seems. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, but there are a LOT of circumstances that can figure into things.

I thought the "bullshits" and "bunks" were a bit unnecessary.........
Same thing you said to Chele goes for you Cirrus, and I believe most people's experiences are closer to hers than yours
What worked for you MIGHT work out sometimes
But for most the experiences will be closer to Chele's

And in your case........why would you take up so much of your time so often with people who can and will never be fully a part of your life?

I'm a non-monogamist & believe in open marriages/relationships
But the openess and honesty allow a lot more sharing, and even then I would think most folks would like to find someone(s) more permanent to share their lives with

 

[HzDomme]

don't settle for less than you deserve

Originally posted by Cirrus Eighth: Bunk. My married ex and I are still very close friends...in fact, he was over with breakfast this morning, and afterward we took a totally platonic late-morning nap. No sex, not even any HINT of sex...it was just nice to be close to someone for a while. We have decided that we didn't work out for a reason, and that if we were to resume a relationship, the same problems would still be there. But we remain very close, and occasionally a LITTLE physically close, but in a comfortable sense...not in a passionate sense.

Sorry Chele, but you have a knack for finding liers, it seems. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, but there are a LOT of circumstances that can figure into things. [/B]

Cirrus, I have to agree with Chele. Relationships that are hidden from the wife more often than not turn out just as she stated.

Do you really believe that most married men do not lie to their wife when they are having an some type of affair?

Does your married ex's wife approve of you two cuddling up to relax together? My bet is she'd be uncomfortable with it.

Why settle for a partial relationship? It takes time away from finding a truly satisfying one. If that is what is wanted, fine, but it doesn't sound like that is what MyLoveMySweet is looking for.

A man who is a liar cannot help but lie to a mistress/girlfriend/play partner just as he lies to his wife.

Chele I loved your response; blunt and to the point.

 

[Netzach]

This is my experience with it:

there are no absolutes.

I have been in a five year relationships with a bisexual switch guy whose wife does not know, or what she knows *I* don't know. That's about his sexuality in kink and bisexual aspects.

I am engaged to a bisexual bottom who does know about this and sometimes participates, more in the open non-monogamous relationship model. That's how I am comfortable operating in my relationships when it's up to me.

The fiance doesn't pass judgement on our friend because I think that so many bisexual men who encounter one another *are* married and *are* going outside the marriage that it's normalized within that culture to a degree. Right or wrong, that's been my observation.

No, I do not think that the first guy has ever lied to me. Because he doesn't need to, because there are no contingencies on my being with him, it's not conditional. I accept exactly who he is, married and leading a double life and never able to spend Christmas with me, the whole bit.

The sustaining emotional stuff I have with my fiance. Till I met him I admit it was much harder on me at times.

But I got into it eyes open, knowing that whatever happened I was getting into something I was willing to handle and could handle, that I have an ability to be sexual and loving and friendly and not romantically inclined or romantically dependent. There are a lot of kinds of love in the world and nobody's perfect. I know that my married guy loves me, and I him, but in a very specific and rare way that falls outside the romantic scope.

That said, if I had had a nagging persistant feeling in my gut at the outset, I would not have gone into the situation. If I felt the way you describe feeling, I would seriously think that this might not be do-able.

Human sexual behavior does not always operate in line with morality, prudence, or sensibility. Know what *you* can tolerate and what *you* need. That's all I think really matters.

 

[James G 5]

Human sexual behavior does not always operate in line with morality, prudence, or sensibility. Know what *you* can tolerate and what *you* need. That's all I think really matters.

I have to disagree with you here
I'm a HUGE believer in "An it harm NONE, do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
Your way sounds more like "As long as it's OK for ME, to hell with anyone else" (what YOU need)
In your case, there's a good chance sooner or later the wife will find out and harm will be done to her, to the guy (if he actually cares about her since he lives a lie with her) and to any kids they might have
You've made a choice to be a part of such a major & fundamentally unhealthy deception
The REASON it's "normalized", as you said, is because people are willing to participate in living lies rather than encouraging openess and honesty
IMHO all of this is the antithesis of healthy sexuality

Dishonesty RARELY serves a purpose, and certainly not in sexual/interpesonal relationships
Again, IMHO

 

[Netzach]

I think we are responsible for ourselves and our own feelings and they are the primary center of our responsibility. I'm not saying other human beings get fucked, I'm doing what I want. I'm saying I've made a decision, it may not be right, it may be a mistake, but it's mine to make.

I don't think what I am doing in this case is right, moral, karmically sound, or nice.

And I'm ok with that. Because it's not so simple either, and I have a certain respect for people who are trying to be who they are to the extent that they think they can, not only to the extent that I think they should.

 

[James G 5]

I think we are responsible for ourselves and our own feelings and they are the primary center of our responsibility. I'm not saying other human beings get fucked, I'm doing what I want. I'm saying I've made a decision, it may not be right, it may be a mistake, but it's mine to make.

I don't think what I am doing in this case is right, moral, karmically sound, or nice.

And I'm ok with that. Because it's not so simple either, and I have a certain respect for people who are trying to be who they are to the extent that they think they can, not only to the extent that I think they should.

How are you ok with something that's not "right, moral, karmically sound, or nice"?
I mean, killing would fall in those categories for me, and it would take something serious like self defense to make me Ok with that
And you're enabling that person to stick with being in a limited sense by facilitating it
This sort of reasoning really seems to lend to the problems that create these situations, and do little for any of the participant's lives in the process

And the idea that you're responsible for yourself and your decisions only is reprehensible to me becuase it makes it too easy to self-justify all SORTS of hurtfulness to others if it fills a need for you
That sort of attitude really will break down any society.......Caring about others and the consequences of your actions to the world around you should always be a factor

Otherwise........
Well, life is ugly

You don't have to defend or explain yourself to me, I just can't fathom your mindset

 

[SexyChele]

No offense, but I felt I had to quote the whole thing.

You speak from your experience, which is never wrong. But your experience is not always the whole ball o' wax.

First: not always. I have been involved with married men, at least 2 I know for sure weren't getting DOODLY at home, not even the obligatory kiss goodnight.

Second: OK, I give you that one...total truth, often sucks.

Third: Complete, total, utter bullshit. The last guy I was with, VERY married, actually ENCOURAGED me to go out with friends, and actually hoped at some point I'd meet a nice single guy to settle down with. He cared for me and I for him...but he and I both knew that he was not my future. He was also a switch.

Fourth: Also bullshit. My ex respected when I had made other plans, because he knew he often COULDN'T get away, and when he could it would often be short notice, and didn't expect me to hang out and wait by the phone.

Fifth: Again, utter bullshit. Geez, I'm on a roll. EVERY married guy I've been with wanted to stay married. The last one MEANT till death do us part, even though SHE (and I met her on several occasions, I know this to be true...she told me as much) felt no passion for him, but felt herself "too old" to go "back on the market"...and so shut him out physically and emotionally. He promised her he'd never leave her, and provided for her and cared for her in her times of need. But he had needs too...both physical and emotional. He found them with me.

Sixth: You stated an opinion. It's not one I agree with, but an opinion is only that.

Seventh: No no NO!!! NEVER my experience. All of the married guys I have been involved with in any respect have all told me they were married at the start and wanted to remain so. I was cool with it. I have never ONCE been told "I'm going to leave her for you".

Eighth: Bunk. My married ex and I are still very close friends...in fact, he was over with breakfast this morning, and afterward we took a totally platonic late-morning nap. No sex, not even any HINT of sex...it was just nice to be close to someone for a while. We have decided that we didn't work out for a reason, and that if we were to resume a relationship, the same problems would still be there. But we remain very close, and occasionally a LITTLE physically close, but in a comfortable sense...not in a passionate sense.

Sorry Chele, but you have a knack for finding liers, it seems. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, but there are a LOT of circumstances that can figure into things.

Cirrus, I have a good deal of respect for you as a person, and anyone can agree or disagree with my positions. I respect that.

There are women out there, married and single, who seek out married men. They like the idea of no commitment. Hey, it's not my thing, but I'm cool with it. (Unless one of these women are doing this with my man behind my back, then it becomes something that I am most certainly not cool with.)

Now, I have a question for you. When you were cuddling up with this married man this morning, what was his wife doing? Was she aware of where her husband was at? Is she cool with this arrangement? Hey, some wives are, from what I understand. Just curious. And if she wasn't aware of where her husband was at, then why not? Why not just say, "Hon, I'm going over to Currus' house for breakfast, and then we might sleep together, k? I'll be home in time for dinner, I promise."

If a couple shares an open relationship because they have determined that monogamy just doesn't work, that is one thing. If a man has to lie, that is something else.

And I would be curious - the wife who you said you've met and talked to - did she know you were screwing around with her husband? Again, just curious, you don't have to answer.

My experiences are my own, yes. And I do have a knack of being overly trusting sometimes. I'm learning. I now trust no man at all. It's just easier that way, until he proves me wrong. A weird quirk I guess from getting hurt too much.

You sound as if you enjoy your relaionships with men who are married. I wish you continued continued happiness. There are not many women who can share their men, you seem to be able to do that, and I sincerely tip my hat to you.

 

[SexyChele]

To James G5 and HzDomme as well as everyone else: thank you for your support and encouragement. I often come off a bit heavy handed in this area - it's been difficult for me. I appreciate your support and encouragement.

Thank you.

 

[James G 5]

To James G5 and HzDomme as well as everyone else: thank you for your support and encouragement. I often come off a bit heavy handed in this area - it's been difficult for me. I appreciate your support and encouragement.

Thank you.

NP Chele
I'm a big believer in dishonesty NEVER being a good thing in relationships
It generally comes down to someone wanting something & not caring who they hurt yo get it

BTW, I read a few of your stories last night.....you owe me a box of Kleenex

 

[~ Emmeline ~]

SexyChele has conveyed just about every reason that you should blow it off. I couldn't agree with her more on any single point.

If I were the wife, and discovered your relationship with my husband, I sure hope you'd be willing to take his ass in when I kick it out the door... permanently!

If you think this would make you happy, just remember what has been stated before. If he's willing to betray his wife, he'll be doing the same to you in the future. People like this have no loyalty. You are nothing more than a toy to him, something that makes him 'feel' powerful. So he says that he's not satisfied having sex with his vanilla wife. Why not? It takes TWO to tango.

On a last note, he may not even be the wonderful lover that he leads you to believe that he is. Many people that can't perform sexually wander from affair to affair, always seeking the one that gives them hope of feeling good about themselves. Good sex can never give someone a cure for low self-esteem... at least not permanently. This type of personality can easily become addicted to sex as a mean to validate themselves. They will always need new horizons to conquer because even with all of the love you give, they refuse to see that there is a problem within themselves.

Run, don't walk. And most of all, don't bother looking back. He'll be with another before you're out of sight.

Take care...

 

[Cirrus]

And in your case........why would you take up so much of your time so often with people who can and will never be fully a part of your life?

Good question. At this point in my life, I'm not looking and don't want someone to be "fully" a part of my life. I like to do my own thing, and be my own person. Yet, I want someone that I feel close to and can be intimate with, without the strings, time obligations, and concessions that are usually made in a "normal" relationship. Maybe at some point I'll be able to or want to make them. That time isn't now.

I don't want someone pissed if I ran into some friends at a store and came home a little late. I don't want someone pissed that I have close male friends that I often hang out with. I don't want someone calling me all the time, hanging around all day, wanting me to make dinner, dumping their daily problems on me, making me plan things in advance, having those petty stupid ass arguments all couples invariably have at some point.... I'm being a little selfish at this juncture, but yet, just like everyone, I want to care for someone and be cared for...just not in a full-on, Leave it to Beaver relationship.

Married guys seem to fit that bill. It works for me right now. Maybe someday I'll look back on it all and think I was foolish, but again, that time is not now.