Amelia as Angela is absolutely a favorite character of mine. But, she wasn't part of my "Oh, shit, I think I like women," moment, lol. But after that realization, she's definitely a part of the "Yeah, I definitely like women" group.
Compliments on your Iambic!
Dear fellow readers and writers
Nah, Imma keep calling it erotica because I'd rather destigmatize what it is than try to soften it to be more palatable to people harboring self shame over their enjoyment of it.Dear fellow readers and writers
thank you all for your amazingly rich response to my Women’s Erotica proposal, both those on-topic and those off-topic. Indeed, I love some of the digressions and I look forward to answering all the contributions to the discussion. But it will take time.
So, I join @Cagivagurl in being interested in seeing where it goes. Here are a few simple proposals for continuing the exploration of the new-old genre of Women’s Erotica.
These suggestions emerged from the discussion. I could have overlooked interesting ideas, so I apologize to the proponents and welcome other proposals.
- Definition: we adopt the definition of Women’s Erotica (in short: WE) given by the Women’s Fiction Writers Association. Our adaptation would be: “Erotic stories in which the plot is driven by the main character’s emotional journey.” You can find more about this definition in Wikipedia (read the second part of the Wikipedia article) and on the WFWA website.
- Examples: we select a few examples from our stories that comply with the definition. For example, we could create a shortlist (hopefully long) of writers and readers, and each could propose two stories of WE, one written by herself or himself, the second by another writer in the shortlist (so we can discuss the story with the author). Or any other idea: the aim is to generate a 'corpus' of WE works and evaluate the potential of the proposed (cross)genre.
- Name: the genre’s name is problematic and potentially misleading, because Women’s Erotica is genre-based, not gender-based, so it is inclusive. Women, Men, and LGBTQIA+ readers, writers, and characters are welcome. We could find better names, but in this first exploration, I’d suggest keeping it as a provisional term using the acronym WE until anything better emerges. By the way, WE sounds much better than WF, in that we can begin our statement with "WE, readers and writers of Women’s Erotica…" It echoes well, doesn't it?
Readers and writers of WE, cheers from the Mediterranean!
NV
It's not strictly about women, strictly written by women, or strictly featuring elements enjoyed only by women.
But that's just the point: it's *not* an inclusive term, is it? You might envisage the genre itself as being inclusive, but by using a name that's exclusive by definition sooner or later you risk the genre becoming exclusive as well.
Why do we need to buy the whole package? Most of us write erotica as a hobby, and even the mainstream writers among us keep their identities separate, I suspect. You might have better luck championing this cause from the mainstream side of women's fiction; here, I suspect by now most of us have reached the point where we shrug and carry on what we've been doing - which, for plenty of writers here, includes writing "emotional journeys" in their erotic works.
There are plenty of stories here that are more than "just porn" without being "women's erotica". Emotion is far from the only factor that can elevate a story above the level of "just porn". And I think most of us, at least here in the Hangout, try to achieve that in dozens of different ways, without feeling the need to confine ourselves to such an exclusive label as "women's erotica". We're proud writers of erotica, smut, porn, whatever you want to call it, but above all we're writers.
Personally, I am deeply interested in the concept, where it goes and what it has to offer.Dear fellow readers and writers
thank you all for your amazingly rich response to my Women’s Erotica proposal, both those on-topic and those off-topic. Indeed, I love some of the digressions and I look forward to answering all the contributions to the discussion. But it will take time.
So, I join @Cagivagurl in being interested in seeing where it goes. Here are a few simple proposals for continuing the exploration of the new-old genre of Women’s Erotica.
These suggestions emerged from the discussion. I could have overlooked interesting ideas, so I apologize to the proponents and welcome other proposals.
- Definition: we adopt the definition of Women’s Erotica (in short: WE) given by the Women’s Fiction Writers Association. Our adaptation would be: “Erotic stories in which the plot is driven by the main character’s emotional journey.” You can find more about this definition in Wikipedia (read the second part of the Wikipedia article) and on the WFWA website.
- Examples: we select a few examples from our stories that comply with the definition. For example, we could create a shortlist (hopefully long) of writers and readers, and each could propose two stories of WE, one written by herself or himself, the second by another writer in the shortlist (so we can discuss the story with the author). Or any other idea: the aim is to generate a 'corpus' of WE works and evaluate the potential of the proposed (cross)genre.
- Name: the genre’s name is problematic and potentially misleading, because Women’s Erotica is genre-based, not gender-based, so it is inclusive. Women, Men, and LGBTQIA+ readers, writers, and characters are welcome. We could find better names, but in this first exploration, I’d suggest keeping it as a provisional term using the acronym WE until anything better emerges. By the way, WE sounds much better than WF, in that we can begin our statement with "WE, readers and writers of Women’s Erotica…" It echoes well, doesn't it?
Readers and writers of WE, cheers from the Mediterranean!
NV
When it comes to categories and tags, every author selects where they want to put their story and what tags they choose. That's beyond your control.
The problem I have with this is the fact that you put "just" in front of porn as if it's lesser if it doesn't fall under your definition of "women's erotica" (which, speaking as a woman, isn't inclusive, it's decidedly exclusive by invoking a specific gender. Erotica is as inclusive a title/genre as it gets.) It's not.
Erotica, as with most things in life has shades.
Right, but OP has already said it's not meant to only be geared towards women in any way it's meant to be inclusive. She negated the term herself by stipulating that it's not at all about, by or for women.
Dear colleague
Dear fellow readers and writers
thank you all for your amazingly rich response to my Women’s Erotica proposal, both those on-topic and those off-topic. Indeed, I love some of the digressions and I look forward to answering all the contributions to the discussion. But it will take time.
So, I join @Cagivagurl in being interested in seeing where it goes. Here are a few simple proposals for continuing the exploration of the new-old genre of Women’s Erotica.
These suggestions emerged from the discussion. I could have overlooked interesting ideas, so I apologize to the proponents and welcome other proposals.
- Definition: we adopt the definition of Women’s Erotica (in short: WE) given by the Women’s Fiction Writers Association. Our adaptation would be: “Erotic stories in which the plot is driven by the main character’s emotional journey.” You can find more about this definition in Wikipedia (read the second part of the Wikipedia article) and on the WFWA website.
- Examples: we select a few examples from our stories that comply with the definition. For example, we could create a shortlist (hopefully long) of writers and readers, and each could propose two stories of WE, one written by herself or himself, the second by another writer in the shortlist (so we can discuss the story with the author). Or any other idea: the aim is to generate a 'corpus' of WE works and evaluate the potential of the proposed (cross)genre.
- Name: the genre’s name is problematic and potentially misleading, because Women’s Erotica is genre-based, not gender-based, so it is inclusive. Women, Men, and LGBTQIA+ readers, writers, and characters are welcome. We could find better names, but in this first exploration, I’d suggest keeping it as a provisional term using the acronym WE until anything better emerges. By the way, WE sounds much better than WF, in that we can begin our statement with "WE, readers and writers of Women’s Erotica…" It echoes well, doesn't it?
Readers and writers of WE, cheers from the Mediterranean!
NV
I don't mean to be contrary, but I would like to point out one more aspect of the term that might be misleading. You keep making the WE - WF parallel, in the sense that WE in erotica is what WF is in fiction. Now, this is from Wikipedia:
Dear @Cagivegurl
Dear CollegueI don't mean to be contrary, but I would like to point out one more aspect of the term that might be misleading. You keep making the WE - WF parallel, in the sense that WE in erotica is what WF is in fiction. Now, this is from Wikipedia:
"Women's fiction is an umbrella term for women-centered books that focus on women's life experience, that are marketed to female readers, and includes many mainstream novels or women's rights books. It is distinct from women's writing, which refers to literature written by (rather than promoted to) women."
The definition you want to use for WE in erotica is not even close to what WF seems to be in fiction. I mean, I could be misunderstanding your posts in this thread but that's how it looks to me. More than that, the term seems to galvanize many people here, so rather than being stubborn about it, maybe it would be better if some non-misleading term was used instead.
Personally, I see nothing wrong with your idea about a specific subgenre, so I would advise being pragmatic about it
Dear fellow readers and writers
thank you all for your amazingly rich response to my Women’s Erotica proposal, both those on-topic and those off-topic. Indeed, I love some of the digressions and I look forward to answering all the contributions to the discussion. But it will take time.
So, I join @Cagivagurl in being interested in seeing where it goes. Here are a few simple proposals for continuing the exploration of the new-old genre of Women’s Erotica.
These suggestions emerged from the discussion. I could have overlooked interesting ideas, so I apologize to the proponents and welcome other proposals.
- Definition: we adopt the definition of Women’s Erotica (in short: WE) given by the Women’s Fiction Writers Association. Our adaptation would be: “Erotic stories in which the plot is driven by the main character’s emotional journey.” You can find more about this definition in Wikipedia (read the second part of the Wikipedia article) and on the WFWA website.
- Examples: we select a few examples from our stories that comply with the definition. For example, we could create a shortlist (hopefully long) of writers and readers, and each could propose two stories of WE, one written by herself or himself, the second by another writer in the shortlist (so we can discuss the story with the author). Or any other idea: the aim is to generate a 'corpus' of WE works and evaluate the potential of the proposed (cross)genre.
- Name: the genre’s name is problematic and potentially misleading, because Women’s Erotica is genre-based, not gender-based, so it is inclusive. Women, Men, and LGBTQIA+ readers, writers, and characters are welcome. We could find better names, but in this first exploration, I’d suggest keeping it as a provisional term using the acronym WE until anything better emerges. By the way, WE sounds much better than WF, in that we can begin our statement with "WE, readers and writers of Women’s Erotica…" It echoes well, doesn't it?
Readers and writers of WE, cheers from the Mediterranean!
NV
But your proposal seems to be this:
As I said, I could be misunderstanding these definitions. I had read the "broader" definition by WFWA but it seemed to me that their definition offers some more specifics in comparison to the one of "Romance Writers of America", that it's also about romantic content, about historical or fantasy or thriller elements, but that it doesn't "correct" the main part of the definition - that it's "an umbrella term for women-centered books that focus on women's life experience, that are marketed to female readers, and includes many mainstream novels or women's rights books."
The proposed definition of women's erotica and its potential inclusions, in a nutshell:
"A Loving Wives BTB is Women's Erotica."
