Introducing Women's Erotica: a new subgenre of Erotica, and a necessary one

[pink_silk_glove]

inciteful

Yea, us chicks are always trying to start something. : P

 

[Bramblethorn]

I have read a few (high scoring) romances that are nearly or completely devoid of any emotion. They simply tick the boxes of monogamy, commitment, perfectly respectable characters and a happy ending.

Absolutely. But do you think the authors of those stories thought they were writing an emotionless story?

I don't. I think it's more likely they set out to write something with an "emotional journey", and wrote something which they believed fit that bill, even though it falls flat for you and me. If "emotional journey" were to become a category, plenty of those people would be posting those stories in it.

I would happily vote for an "Emotional Journey As Defined By Bramblethorn" category. I'd probably support an "Emotional Journey As Defined By PSG" category, because I suspect there's a lot of overlap in what we'd like to read. But that's not what we'd actually get.

 

[AG31]

I would love to read more erotica from a woman's point of view and written by women. I find them actually more interesting and inciteful. In some cases their descriptions are more honest and not so over inflated, whereas male authors, not all, but most tend to just go with sex, sex, and more sex.

As a man, I love to detail the love two people may have for each other or how they interact outside of the bedroom or aside from having sex. I can write just sex, that is not a problem. Random sex is still a good part of a lot of stories, but I like to keep that for when I just want to kick out a quick story.

Try some of my stories. No relationships. Male POV. Just simple erotica. I'm female.

 

[CherryCupcake]

There are many stories written by women here and everywhere, even if the woman may intend to turn on a man, it is still female erotica. If we're talking of 'women's erotica' as a genre i think that would be erotica written by anyone where the focus is on the emotions of the characters and not on the details of their bodies or the sexual acts they may be performing, witnessing, or imagining.

In my own stories, I write about people. Yes, they're probably fucking in the stories posted here, but it's written about them. Fucking is a thing they simply happen to be enjoying during the story.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Dear fellow writers!

Erotica has an amazing number of subgenres and themes, so it seems hardly possible to introduce a new one. But I believe it is not just possible: it is necessary.

The new subgenre name is Women’s Erotica, and it comes from its general counterpart, namely Women’s Fiction. According to the definition proposed by the Women’s Fiction Writer’s Association (which I embrace), Women’s Fiction Writers create “layered stories in which the plot is driven by the main character’s emotional journey.” So, I propose to define Women’s Erotica as “Erotic stories in which the plot is driven by the main character’s emotional journey.”

As you can see, both the protagonists and the authors of Women’s Fiction can be any gender, making the term a very inclusive umbrella term for Erotica in fluid gender times. Of course, Women’s Erotica comes with its inheritance of lights and shadows which plagues the parent term Women’s Fiction, and—as a writer of Women’s Fiction myself—I am aware of the criticism.

But Women’s Erotica is what I write—and I believe many of you write Women’s Erotica as well, so I’d like to connect with you all, discuss the idea, and maybe push it forward together.

Best from the Mediterranean!

Nancy Veeners - Writer of Women's Erotica

I believe there is absolutely a place in the world for women centric erotica. An absolutely totally wonderful concept. It exists in the world outside Literotica, enjoyed by millions.

I don't like the idea that segregation is necessary, breaking down categories into subgenres. However, there is a need for erotica from a woman's view.

Is there a place for it in Literotica?"

Probably not. The audience within Literotica is over 80% male. That BTW is only my opinion.

Cagivagurl

 

[SimonDoom]

The audience within Literotica is over 80% male.

Cagivagurl

Even if you are right, that's a LOT of women. That's a huge readership. It's not like the presence of a male majority is going to interfere with women finding the stories they want. Readers tend to find their corners of Literotica that they like and usually not disturb the inhabitants of the other corners.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Even if you are right, that's a LOT of women. That's a huge readership. It's not like the presence of a male majority is going to interfere with women finding the stories they want. Readers tend to find their corners of Literotica that they like and usually not disturb the inhabitants of the other corners.

But the lack of non-kink centric categories will and does.

 

[SimonDoom]

But the lack of non-kink centric categories will and does.

You might be right. I think we're all speculating. But I get the sense this is one area where the site has no interest in budging. I can understand why they might not want to create a lot more categories. So my suggestion is for interested persons to take the initiative and find a workaround that doesn't ask the Site to fundamentally change. The curated list option is a possible option.

 

[Cagivagurl]

From the site owners perspective. They have probably the worlds most popular erotic story site. I've never researched that. I've seen comments along those lines here in the AH.
So, if it ain't broken why fix it. It seems every subgenre is crying out for theirs to get a bigger spotlight.
A few complaining writers in the AH will change nothing.
I understand their view.

Women asking for more women centric erotica isn't new.

No problem... As always, opinion only...

Cagivagurl

 

[pink_silk_glove]

So, if it ain't broken why fix it.

Just because it's number one doesn't mean that it can't be improved.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Just because it's number one doesn't mean that it can't be improved.

No argument from me,
I merely indicated that the desire to tinker with something that clearly works for them is small....
What annoys a few writers is not a big driver...
Clearly readers like it. They are the reason the site exists...
Readers are where the value lies.

If I owned the #1 site in the world I wouldn't tinker too much. Just let the money roll in...

More power to them...

Cagivagurl

 

[Bramblethorn]

None of us in this thread can create a new category. Any of us can create curated lists.

"Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

 

[nice90sguy]

Some authors here love the anonymity Lit provides them, and they write "differently" from their actual biological gender. They "identify their writing" as female/male. But really, that's not up to them, it's up to the reader to decide, and no doubt it helps a lot of readers to picture the writer as belonging to one of their in-groups. And for some readers, it adds to the sexiness to imagine the author as an object of attraction.

But on the whole, I DON'T like the idea of genderizing fiction - it's like gender-labelling music, to me, which I also think is pointless and only serves to put up barriers to a potential audience.

 

[Agent0069]

Sorry I’m late for the discussion, here’s my contribution.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Some authors here love the anonymity Lit provides them, and they write "differently" from their actual biological gender. They "identify their writing" as female/male. But really, that's not up to them, it's up to the reader to decide, and no doubt it helps a lot of readers to picture the writer as belonging to one of their in-groups. And for some readers, it adds to the sexiness to imagine the author as an object of attraction.

But on the whole, I DON'T like the idea of genderizing fiction - it's like gender-labelling music, to me, which I also think is pointless and only serves to put up barriers to a potential audience.

(with apologies to whoever did the toys version of this)

 

[NancyVeeners]

Oh, so it's not that Literotica has created a new genre then? (Just checked. Indeed they haven't.)

Um.... so what are you asking for, exactly? Like @AwkwardMD and @MelissaBaby I think most of my work qualifies by your definition, but I'm happyish with the categories my stories are in. I mean, we could start using "women's erotica" as a tag I guess? But then, what about all the great stuff written pre-2024 that wouldn't have that tag?

I have to say, I'm not wild about gender defined labels e.g. "chick lit".

Thank you so much for your answer, and congratulations on your writing... all your stories are HOT, and a s a writer I am in awe!
Starting from the ending of your note, I must confess I am not wild about gender-defined labels, either. Chick-lit has an ironic edge but not everyone gets it, so I won't like my stories labeled as such.
Women's Fiction (and Women's Erotica) has many problematic issues, one of which is exactly what you mention: it looks as 'gender defined' but it is not. The WFWA definition makes it clear. They (the Women's Fiction Writer Association's top management) are so aware of the problem that they tried to change it. Hard. But it is impossible. I know because I am a member of the association and I witnessed the attempt.
So why is the use of such a problematic term in Erotica? As you write, you won't need the label Women's Fiction, but it is because all your stories and series belong to one specific (sub)genre (Lesbian Sex), so your readers know what 'content' they got there, and since you are such an outstanding writer you have built a great audience. But as you know there are Lesbian Sex stories that would not conform to the Women's Fiction definition, because Erotica comes in different forms, from Vanilla to Porn. We have readers out there who take seriously the 'Lit' in Literotica and don't want just porn, they want complex protagonists and plots.
Women's Erotica (like its parent genre Women's Fiction) promises just that, and its advantage (and again, problem) is that it is not a new category, but it cuts across categories. We could say that it is not a new subgenre of Erotica. Instead, it cuts across genres, so we maybe could say it is a cross-genre. Or maybe a trans-genre.
It is problematic, but I believe that (in particular in Erotica) it is full of promise.
I hope this clarifies my proposal and I hope we have your support in pushing forward the idea.
Cheers from sunny Italy
NV

 

[NancyVeeners]

I think we’d need to start by discerning this new term from the existing monikers like “slow burn,” “character-driven” or even “romance.” So far, it seems like we’re talking about some combination of those which isn’t gender specific (though admittedly it probably does appeal to women more, but other kinds of erotica do that, too).

Dear colleague writer

thank you for your answer, and congratulations on your writing and the wide audience you built!

Like other fellow writers, you are right. The term 'Women's Erotica' (like the parent term 'Women Fiction' is problematic. It is often Character Driven, of course, and coule or could not be 'Slow Burning'. Those are not genres, but Women's Fiction is a problematic genre exactly for the same reason, because it required subgenres, so it is a cross-genre of sorts.

So why the proposal? Because Women's Fiction is an established genre, and it holds a lot of promise, especially in Erotica. It interprets the Lit in Literotica and it is a clear-cut promise to the writers who don't want just Porn, but complex characters, compelling plots, and good writing.

I would like to create a group of writers who recognize themself in the new cross-genre, and I hope I can count you in.

Best from good ol'Europe!

NV

 

[Lifestyle66]

... We have readers out there who take seriously the 'Lit' in Literotica and don't want just porn, they want complex protagonists and plots.
Women's Erotica (like its parent genre Women's Fiction) promises just that, and its advantage (and again, problem) is that it is not a new category, but it cuts across categories. We could say that it is not a new subgenre of Erotica. Instead, it cuts across genres, so we maybe could say it is a cross-genre. Or maybe a trans-genre.
It is problematic, but I believe that (in particular in Erotica) it is full of promise.
I hope this clarifies my proposal and I hope we have your support in pushing forward the idea.
Cheers from sunny Italy
NV

The problem you're describing in Women's Erotica cutting across categories would not be solved by creating another category. It would merely further segregate some stories from other category audiences, in effect furthering the divide between people understanding and appreciating different POVs.

If you're looking for emotional stories with a complex plot, try reading my Loving Wives story "Aftermath, Just Loving You". (I've received some compliments that it's a "tearjerker". And it's 18.2K words rated 2.97/318 with over 18K views.)

If you read it, then follow that with "What I Wrote and Why: Aftermath" (2.2K words). You'll see where even if you loved the story enough to include in a Women's Erotica category, my intent when writing the story wasn't to attract women to read it, but rather to try prodding the attitudes of the Loving Wives audience.

So, in my opinion, more categories or "Red-H" awards are not necessarily good solutions. We'll find great stories in different categories which we might never have read, such as MelissaBaby's "Oyster River" in Lesbian which I found only by participating in the Pink Orchid challenge over two years ago. And there are stories which we think are great deserving a 5, while others rate it a 1, so that limiting yourself to reading just Red-H stories deprives you of other potentially great ones due to some narrow-minded bigot 1-bombing it.

Categories and ratings divide us and limit our potential to discover, grow, and learn more. We might look at more ways to socialize and advertise the curated lists, creating our own for what we prefer and seeking others who share our own preferences to see in their list what they've discovered in their readings.

Essentially, when looking for great stories, I think we all follow the saying; "I'll know it when I see it."

 

[AG31]

Working on the assumption that this genre is about content and not authorship or readership, I think "relationships" is better than "emotional journey" for describing that kind of story referred to in the wider world as "women's literature" or "chick lit." I'm not exactly sure why I think that. Will let you know if it comes to me.

 

[MrPixel]

As for the “new subgenre” she describes, yeah, a number of us have been writing that for years.

There is nothing new about this at all.

Anaïs Nin.

 

[StillStunned]

And once we've got a category for "Women's Erotica", can we also get categories for "Good Storytelling", "Strong Use of Imagery" and "Language that Enhances the Story"?

 

[NancyVeeners]

Working on the assumption that this genre is about content and not authorship or readership, I think "relationships" is better than "emotional journey" for describing that kind of story referred to in the wider world as "women's literature" or "chick lit." I'm not exactly sure why I think that. Will let you know if it comes to me.

Thank you for your contribution, fellow writer! You may be right, but I didn't invent the definition: I adopted the Women's Fiction Writers Association's definition. Women's Fiction--with all its problems--already exists and is here to stay, so I believe we should consider its opportunities in Erotica, which (in my humble opinion) are significant.
Cheers
NV

 

[AwkwardlySet]

No, screw your writing-well bollocks! I want a category for curvy, firm, large-but-not-too-large, silky-skinned, no-tattoos BUTTS!
I call priority on that!

 

[StillStunned]

No, screw your writing-well bollocks! I want a category for curvy, firm, large-but-not-too-large, silky-skinned, no-tattoos BUTTS!
I call priority on that!

That's something I think we can all get behind.

(Get it? "Get behind", hahaha! Get it? Get it?)

 

[THBGato]

So why is the use of such a problematic term in Erotica? As you write, you won't need the label Women's Fiction, but it is because all your stories and series belong to one specific (sub)genre (Lesbian Sex), so your readers know what 'content' they got there, and since you are such an outstanding writer you have built a great audience. But as you know there are Lesbian Sex stories that would not conform to the Women's Fiction definition, because Erotica comes in different forms, from Vanilla to Porn. We have readers out there who take seriously the 'Lit' in Literotica and don't want just porn, they want complex protagonists and plots.
Women's Erotica (like its parent genre Women's Fiction) promises just that, and its advantage (and again, problem) is that it is not a new category, but it cuts across categories. We could say that it is not a new subgenre of Erotica. Instead, it cuts across genres, so we maybe could say it is a cross-genre. Or maybe a trans-genre.
It is problematic, but I believe that (in particular in Erotica) it is full of promise.
I hope this clarifies my proposal and I hope we have your support in pushing forward the idea.
Cheers from sunny Italy
NV

Aw thanks flattery will get you.... well, places.

I see your point about Lesbian Sex stories: there are many there that might be termed "strokers" (or perhaps "jillers") that have no/very little emotional content or journey. Those are often easy to spot by the description or the tags or even the length of the piece.

I am still confused though by what you are actually proposing. Do you want us to get together to agitate for a new category/a change in categories? As many have pointed out on this thread, doing so would a) probably not be successful and b) not guard against authors miscategorising their stories.

But then you talk about this being cross-genre. So, do you want us to just adopt certain tags to guide readers? Or create and share lists of these stories? (If that's so, then I would argue that many writers are already doing this.)

What is your desired outcome here? Or was the conversation simply your goal?

Ciao bella.