Introducing Women's Erotica: a new subgenre of Erotica, and a necessary one

[AwkwardlySet]

That's something I think we can all get behind.

(Get it? "Get behind", hahaha! Get it? Get it?)

Did you see how I foreshadowed "BUTTS" with bollocks?! Well, I don't mean to boast, but that's some supreme post-writing right there.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

The problem you're describing in Women's Erotica cutting across categories would not be solved by creating another category.

No, but it would be helped BIG time.

So, in my opinion, more categories or "Red-H" awards are not necessarily good solutions. We'll find great stories in different categories which we might never have read

No one has mentioned Red Hs in this thread. That's irrelevant.

Categories and ratings divide us and limit our potential to discover, grow, and learn more.

No, that's a silly argument. Categories simply help readers find stories and as such help writers place their stories where they can be found by those who seek them. By your argument lit should have just one big random grab bag of stories where apparently you think that no one will have any trouble finding anything?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

And once we've got a category for "Women's Erotica", can we also get categories for "Good Storytelling", "Strong Use of Imagery" and "Language that Enhances the Story"?

Those are just tools, not plot drivers. Why is there a BDSM category? Because BDSM as a kink is a plot driver. Imagery is not a driver, it's just a tool, so it is easily dismissed as a potential category. However, if a story is driven by emotion and character rather than kink, that is definitely a plot driver, yet there is no category. That line is clearly drawn.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Working on the assumption that this genre is about content and not authorship or readership, I think "relationships" is better than "emotional journey" for describing that kind of story referred to in the wider world as "women's literature" or "chick lit." I'm not exactly sure why I think that. Will let you know if it comes to me.

Relationships? Why can't a one night fling be emotion driven?

 

[AG31]

Relationships? Why can't a one night fling be emotion driven?

Why can't an emotional one night fling be a relationship?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Why can't an emotional one night fling be a relationship?

Because readers looking in a category called 'relationships' will be looking for an actual relationship with some sort of commitment and will be upset if they find a fling. Let's not make the mistake of giving a category a misleading name like Loving Wives or Erotic Couplings again.

 

[AG31]

Relationships? Why can't a one night fling be emotion driven?

If a story about a one night fling was driven by emotion, without any attention to the relationship between the two people flinging, I don't think it would qualify as an example of the kind of stories that would be candidates for the OPs new category.

 

[AG31]

Because readers looking in a category called 'relationships' will be looking for an actual relationship with some sort of commitment and will be upset if they find a fling. Let's not make the mistake of giving a category a misleading name like Loving Wives or Erotic Couplings again.

Well, they should be upset if the fling that paid no attention to relationships was categorized as "women's erotica."

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Well, they should be upset if the fling that paid no attention to relationships was categorized as "women's erotica."

To suggest that a woman can't enjoy a fling is very patronizing.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Because readers looking in a category called 'relationships' will be looking for an actual relationship with some sort of commitment and will be upset if they find a fling. Let's not make the mistake of giving a category a misleading name like Loving Wives or Erotic Couplings again.

I've tried to describe how the readers seem to decide what they want or don't want in categories by giving you the example of many Loving Wives readers saying stories of "extra-marital fun, sharing" belongs in Fetish.

The site is what it is with the categories they had from its early days. And authors will even drop into Loving Wives their stories of extreme BDSM and sex slavery, with the author claiming in defense "well, she says "dear" to him, and he's a cuckold, which is what that category is all about!" (Where does it ever say in the category description "cuckold"?)

So, even if the site created a "For Women" category, I might choose to place my story "The Fucking Bitch!" there instead of LW, because it's written in the wife's POV, and she's a strong-willed, monogamous woman who is in control of her life, propping up the men around her.

As I said before, we might be better off just finding others with similar tastes and looking at their curated lists.

If you've written and published stories here, your author's home page alerts you whenever others "favorite" your story. Click on those names and see if they have done so to put it in a list and use their list to find other you might want to read!

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I've tried to describe how the readers seem to decide what they want or don't want in categories by giving you the example of many Loving Wives readers saying stories of "extra-marital fun, sharing" belongs in Fetish.

The site is what it is with the categories they had from its early days. And authors will even drop into Loving Wives their stories of extreme BDSM and sex slavery, with the author claiming in defense "well, she says "dear" to him, and he's a cuckold, which is what that category is all about!" (Where does it ever say in the category description "cuckold"?)

So, even if the site created a "For Women" category, I might choose to place my story "The Fucking Bitch!" there instead of LW, because it's written in the wife's POV, and she's a strong-willed, monogamous woman who is in control of her life, propping up the men around her.

And you can still put your story in LW whether there is an emo category or not. That won't change a thing. But your example of people telling you that your cuck story belongs in fetish is prime evidence to show that the LW category is too large, too vague and needs to be split up into sub-categories. If you would have put it in fetish, the fetish crowd would have told you "wtf is this cuck shit? take it back to LW!" Cuckold needs its own category. Come on, it's the second most popular kink around and it doesn't get its own category?? Preposterous. More categories = less complaints of miscategorization, and a much easier time finding things.

 

[StillStunned]

Those are just tools, not plot drivers. Why is there a BDSM category? Because BDSM as a kink is a plot driver. Imagery is not a driver, it's just a tool, so it is easily dismissed as a potential category. However, if a story is driven by emotion and character rather than kink, that is definitely a plot driver, yet there is no category. That line is clearly drawn.

But we also have categories for Novels & Novellas, and Reviews & Essays, and Humour & Satire, and Audio, and Illustrated, and several other themes that aren't plot-related. So why not Strong Imagery? Why not Good Storytelling? Why not "Language That Enhances The Story"? Because, frankly, to me those are probably what I look for most in a story.

I get the feeling that some people are defending the idea of "Women's Erotica" because it has the word "women", and there's a kneejerk reaction that women are entitled to their own niche - never mind that, by the given definition, such stories wouldn't necessarily be written by women, be intended for women, feature women as the central characters, or be otherwise woman-specific in any way. If the OP had just said, "I think we ought to have a category for emotion-driven content," the discussion would probably have fizzled out after a page.

 

[Lifestyle66]

And you can still put your story in LW whether there is an emo category or not. That won't change a thing. But your example of people telling you that your cuck story belongs in fetish is prime evidence to show that the LW category is too large, too vague and needs to be split up into sub-categories. If you would have put it in fetish, the fetish crowd would have told you "wtf is this cuck shit? take it back to LW!" Cuckold needs its own category. Come on, it's the second most popular kink around and it doesn't get its own category?? Preposterous. More categories = less complaints of miscategorization, and a much easier time finding things.

As I said, authors will put their shit wherever they want, and we as readers just deal with it based on our own preferences.

Whether you're looking for BDSM, emo, sex slaves, lesbian, or romance, you'll find what you're looking for scattered throughout other categories. It was up to the author when they posted where they chose to put it.

With a new category for the particular choice YOU prefer, you are looking to the other authors to feed you. And you'll get whatever we choose to put there. (Be careful, my warped goes in far different directions with tastes you may not like.)

As a solution, I recommend that you try looking at those readers who "favorited" a story of yours which is in the emo style you'd like others to write and see if those readers have favorited other stories you might like! Put the readers to work feeding you with their lists!

 

[THBGato]

So why not Strong Imagery? Why not Good Storytelling? Why not "Language That Enhances The Story"? Because, frankly, to me those are probably what I look for most in a story.

I dunno. What kind of writer is going to be arrogant enough to categorise their story as "Good storytelling"?

Also, even if it existed, most people probably wouldn't check there. I've read a few Novels and Novellas (e.g. Melissa Baby's excellent Queen of the Roller Derby as was previous mentioned) but ONLY because I was browsing the author in question's story list. It would be the same with a "Good storytelling" category. I think most readers would check by sexuality/kink/genre first. Or use tags.

 

[StillStunned]

I dunno. What kind of writer is going to be arrogant enough to categorise their story as "Good storytelling"?

Half the writers here in the AH seem to say they don't care about grammar and style, but excel at storytelling.

 

[SadieGirl06]

Guess I’d better start writing finally

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

or perhaps "jillers"

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But we also have categories for Novels & Novellas, and Reviews & Essays, and Humour & Satire, and Audio, and Illustrated, and several other themes that aren't plot-related. So why not Strong Imagery? Why not Good Storytelling? Why not "Language That Enhances The Story"? Because, frankly, to me those are probably what I look for most in a story.

As I have stated above.

Technical - Audio, Illustrated, poetry, novels and novellas
Gender and Sexuality division - Transgender, Gay Male, Lesbian
By Kink - Mature, Exhibitionist/Voyeur, Loving Wives, Erotic Couplings, etc.
Other - Humour and Satire, How to, Reviews & Essays

This is another indictment of the category system and how poorly it has been thought out and designed. The system can't even get it's dimensions straight. The entire category of Novels/Novellas could be replaced with simply putting word counts on the story card (!! hel-LO??). What makes a BDSM story suddenly a novel? The word count? Once it's over 40k words it is no longer BDSM? Facetious questions I know, but I'm making a point and that is that story length should not be it's own category. ANY category can have a long chaptered story. Indeed, most writers place their epic series into specific categories and not N/N anyways. Likewise, Audio and illustrated should not be categories. ANY story should be able to submit an audio track or a visual. An anal story done in audio should still be in anal. A horror story done with illustrations should still be in erotic horror. It's silly to move these to a grab bag category where anal or horror fans will miss it.

I get the feeling that some people are defending the idea of "Women's Erotica" because it has the word "women",

I think so too, but personally that's not my stance. Again.

Isn't it "emotional journey" you're talking about -- discarding confusion of gender labels?

I'm totally fine with that.

I totally agree that women's erotica is a poor label, although such a category would appeal to women more than men, sure, but to label it as women's would be a bad move in my opinion.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

As I said, authors will put their shit wherever they want, and we as readers just deal with it based on our own preferences.

Whether you're looking for BDSM, emo, sex slaves, lesbian, or romance, you'll find what you're looking for scattered throughout other categories. It was up to the author when they posted where they chose to put it.

And some writers are poor at categorizing but most are fine at at. Either way, more categories will still make it easier for readers to find stories and writers that they like, and as Simon so often wisely reminds us - categories are there to help readers find stories. Why is it so difficult to find many stories on lit? Lack of proper categories. Plain and simple. Some categories are way too big and vague and some categories don't even exist. Why is there not a femdom category? Why is the gay and lesbian but no bi? Why is there anal and toys but no oral? Why is taboo (doctor/patient, teacher/student, age gap) tossed in on the side with behemoth incest, yet the taboo of interracial gets its own spot? Wtf?? The categories are not serving us very well.

No, we won't find what we are looking for scattered throughout all of the other categories unless by accident. That's the absolute worst way to find things, so there is something wrong with the system.

 

[Lifestyle66]

And some writers are poor at categorizing but most are fine at at. Either way, more categories will still make it easier for readers to find stories and writers that they like, and as Simon so often wisely reminds us - categories are there to help readers find stories. Why is it so difficult to find many stories on lit? Lack of proper categories. Plain and simple. Some categories are way too big and vague and some categories don't even exist. Why is there not a femdom category? Why is the gay and lesbian but no bi? Why is there anal and toys but no oral? Why is taboo (doctor/patient, teacher/student, age gap) tossed in on the side with behemoth incest, yet the taboo of interracial gets its own spot? Wtf?? The categories are not serving us very well.

No, we won't find what we are looking for scattered throughout all of the other categories unless by accident. That's the absolute worst way to find things, so there is something wrong with the system.

And as I said (for about the third time), the solution is to check out those who have favorited one of your stories by clicking on their name in the homepage alert you received when they added it to favorites and look at any lists they have. Some of my readers have as many as two dozen sub-categories for assigning and organizing their bookmarked stories.

Or when looking at the end of another author's story you like, check out the latest three readers who favorited it to see if they have lists.

Rather than add yet again one (or more) categories for us to select just one for our stories, leverage the work some readers are putting into better organizing their favorites. Find a few whose lists you like and FOLLOW them!

Its work to bookmark and subcategorize stories into various lists. So, take advantage of the work some readers are ALREADY doing for you!

EDIT: The system has provided you with some tools to help find what you want. You just need to start using the tools they provided. Follow the others who are looking for the same things!

 

[AG31]

To suggest that a woman can't enjoy a fling is very patronizing.

???? How am I suggesting that a woman can't enjoy a fling? I thought we'd pretty much agreed that the term "women" or "chick" is misleading. We're talking about a kind of story, not a kind of reader or writer.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Relationships? Why can't a one night fling be emotion driven?

You've written this before.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

You've written this before.

So have you on your other account.

 

[madelinemasoch]

So have you on your other account.

I don't have another account...

 

[MelissaBaby]

It feels like this discussion has run its course, but if people want to keep plugging my stories, that would be cool.