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[Netzach]

I grew up in a family with alcohol, drug, emotional and food issues. It took me years to detox. I still don't think I'm done, but I'm working on it. I've been on every extreme, completely convinced that THIS...THIS NEW IDEA...will fix everything.

It never does. Turns out a bunch of old and new ideas, combined exactly the way I need them, will work. But I have to figure that out for myself, and I think everyone has to. It's nice if someone who has exactly your temperament, genetics and brain chemistry has written a book, but so far in my case, no. I listened, I tried, but there are...side effects.

I tried vegan, I tried vegetarian, I tried frutarian, I tried macrobiotic, I tried Atkins, I tried...every new thing. Not even for weight issues, but because every system promised a cure for my headaches.

I still have to refine every day, how disciplined and how forgiving I have to be to get through the day comfortably without overindulging or underindulging.

If I screw up on that, then down the road I WILL overindulge and then slam into underindulging and then back again.

The only weight management system that has ever worked for me over a series of years that didn't result in me wanting to murder someone for a steak or a piece of bread or a piece of candy involves a little bit of steak, little bit of bread, little bit of candy, and ensuring that every meal starts with the good stuff and that I eat it not because I like to, but because I have to. Then I can have moderate amounts of what I like so I don't feel completely deprived of all pleasure. I do the basics to guarantee health and then I do some unhealthy stuff for pleasure. I even had to get over an aversion to healthy foods from being forced to eat ONLY healthy foods for years.

I had to give up the idea that I should love doing something I inherently dislike. For all the people that get huge benefits out of the perfect diet and the perfect exercise and the perfect life, I'm not one of them. And I'm of the mind that if I have to eat one more bit of tofu in a life, that someone's gonna die for it. Other people forced me to eat it, I forced myself to eat it. I don't like tofu. End of story. Even the smell now makes me nauseated.

And I still absolutely have to have some ice cream, steak or Hot Tamales somewhere in my diet or I begin to become an extraordinarily bitchy martyr who quickly is having no fun and thinks life is not worth living.

So for me I have to have some permissible safety valves and then I have to choose whether to be in the absolute best person I can be, but a hypercritical raging bitch, or a person having a decent time in my life, feeling free to do everything, but in moderation.

At least in me particularly, extremes of one thing creates cravings and deficiencies.

If you're allowed a little cake you can have it, and you can have that little safety valve. In my case that safety valve would keep me from being driven to locking myself in a room after buying 14 cakes and doing art on the walls in German chocolate and black cherry as an offering to the cake Gods.

That's the hardest part of addiction. Learning to not deprive yourself entirely, but only have...a little. It can be done. And I think ultimately it's the only way to really be a recovered addict and not just someone addicted to not being an addict in any way.

VelvetDarkness, all I can say is that people fed me lots of healthy food. At this stage in my life, I'd rather have some permissible freedoms and if someone I love tries to get me to give up chocolate for carob, butter for margarine and steak for tofu...

No. No way in hell. Mine. My brain. Mine. *growling noises*

Yeah, it's hard. I think I'm coming off the total deprivation because I was eating on a chemical level, so no really was NO, not ever. As you know if you were trying to do the anti-headache thing - so it's like, oh screw that I can HAVE this now, but way too much in the other extreme again.

I think it'll be important for me to make friends with the foods that are boring again, they're not so bad, I don't have to be entertained every minute when I'm in remission.

Your experience with this is really valuable for me to read, thanks

 

[Recidiva]

Yeah, it's hard. I think I'm coming off the total deprivation because I was eating on a chemical level, so no really was NO, not ever. As you know if you were trying to do the anti-headache thing - so it's like, oh screw that I can HAVE this now, but way too much in the other extreme again.

I think it'll be important for me to make friends with the foods that are boring again, they're not so bad, I don't have to be entertained every minute when I'm in remission.

Your experience with this is really valuable for me to read, thanks

Ironically caffeine HELPS my headaches and doesn't cause them. Dammit. Wish I'd figured that bit out earlier.

You're welcome, since I've made every dietary mistake in the book, I figure it's at least cautionary comedy.

 

[Breaker_Morant]

This does work. Make it the darkest damn chocolate you can find and you'll find even the worst sugar junkie like me able to just have a square or two.

Nasty, nasty stuff. *shivers*

 

[intothewoods]

Nasty, nasty stuff. *shivers*

Oh, that is so wrong. That's way worse than your worst Republican diatribe.

 

[Netzach]

Nasty, nasty stuff. *shivers*

Really?

That's how I feel about kinda plasticky mild milk. Nasty but you eat more of it hoping to get what you want out of the deal.

 

[Tyr51]

It sounds like you make some yummy food! I'd find it pretty easy to eat vegitarian in your house.

Just a couple of thoughts/suggestions:

If he's eating the portions he should be of such foods, the poor man is probably starving. Let's look at breakfast:

Shredded wheat or porridge oats with skimmed milk and a little organic maple syrup.
or 2 slices of wholemeal toast with marmite
or a banana

All three of those options are carbohydrates (even the bananna. It, like the potato, is a carbohydrate and doesn't count as a fruit in your meal planning). None of those options include protein. All of those options will burn off in a matter of 2 hours and leave him starving before lunch.

Could I suggest a few other options?

- 2 egg omlet (use eggbeaters if you like.... less cholestoral) filled with a quarter to half a cup of veggies, 1 oz of cheeze and salsa. Also a piece of whole wheat toast with a little butter or marmite if that's his poison. Also a glass of milk. That meal is heavier on protein and on fiber. Fiber keeps you full. Protein keeps your blood sugar level. Also... it's more food and will likely be more fulfilling to eat.
- Porridge oats are good (make sure it's one serving), but also eat a half a cup of cottage cheese and a little fruit (melons are great because they're low on the glycemic index). Same reasoning.

When I'm trying to lose weight, I plan my snacks. I try to make them very high fiber, but very low calorie. I love my crinkle cut carrots and salsa. I can eat them until I'm full and know I'm not consuming more than 100 calories (the limit I put on snacks). I can steam an artichoke, eat it with a teaspoon of low-fat mayonaise, and also stay under 100 calories. Get 100 calorie packs of microwave popcorn. That also is pretty satisfying without blowing anything. Eat an all veggie salad with a low calorie dressing. Look at some soups. You do need to look around, but you can find ones that are around 100 calories. Heck... you can find frozen entrees in the diet section that are 100 - 120 calories. With prepared food, always look at sodium as well, though. They have a lot of it.

I really recommend putting "calorie counter" into google and finding a site you find easy to navigate. That's going to be pretty enlightening about items you use and portion size.

I have a good friend who told me her method of portion control.... you might find it helpful (it's easy... I like easy ). Every meal should have a protein, a carbohydrate, and a high fiber veggie. She makes sure portions of all three is about the size of her fist. The beauty in this is that the bigger you are, the bigger your fist tends to be.



btw.... I think it is very admirable that you are being supportive of your SO when he's going through challenges. Also... eating at your house sounds delicious. >>

 

[Tyr51]

I love dark chocolate. >>

I found one that was 87% at Trader Joes. Can't eat more than an ounce, but omg.... thing is like a drug. lol

 

[Primalex]

When I'm trying to lose weight, I plan my snacks. I try to make them very high fiber, but very low calorie. I love my crinkle cut carrots and salsa. I can eat them until I'm full and know I'm not consuming more than 100 calories (the limit I put on snacks). I can steam an artichoke, eat it with a teaspoon of low-fat mayonaise, and also stay under 100 calories. Get 100 calorie packs of microwave popcorn. That also is pretty satisfying without blowing anything. Eat an all veggie salad with a low calorie dressing. Look at some soups. You do need to look around, but you can find ones that are around 100 calories. Heck... you can find frozen entrees in the diet section that are 100 - 120 calories. With prepared food, always look at sodium as well, though. They have a lot of it.

This reminds me of another thing:
Often people have trouble controlling how much of the snacks they eat - a piece of chocolate was planned - and 2 minutes later the whole bar of chocolate is gone (I belong to this group when it comes down to chips...). You can use zip lock bags to divide the snacks in xxx calories packs.

 

[bridgeburner]

Tyr51

I have a good friend who told me her method of portion control.... you might find it helpful (it's easy... I like easy ). Every meal should have a protein, a carbohydrate, and a high fiber veggie. She makes sure portions of all three is about the size of her fist. The beauty in this is that the bigger you are, the bigger your fist tends to be.

This sounds like the Bill Phillips Fit for Life method which has worked for a lot of people. He's got lists of what should be on the protein, carb and fiber/veggie selections in his Body for Life book. I think it may even be on the support website for people doing the Body for Life challenge ---- and I have to point out that even if one isn't doing the Challenge, one can do the plan and the website and 800 numbers are free support. Unless one is doing the Challenge, there's no rule about using sponsored supplements, so whatever marketing and money it's brought Phillips' way, it's still a really supportive environment and has helped a lot of people.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm anemic as hell and find I eat way too much when my iron levels are at their lowest. I know also know that iron in food is absorbed much better by the body than supplements. I don't really know anything about vegan diets and foods, but is there plenty of iron in that diet? I defer to someone with more knowledge of it than me. I just eat lean red meat when I get to craving something.

And, yes, the carbs are a lot of the problem. I'm a carb addict and hypoglycemic to boot. I KNOW that's my weakness, but I still don't walk the walk like I should, though I've been trying to do better.

 

[Recidiva]

This reminds me of another thing:
Often people have trouble controlling how much of the snacks they eat - a piece of chocolate was planned - and 2 minutes later the whole bar of chocolate is gone (I belong to this group when it comes down to chips...). You can use zip lock bags to divide the snacks in xxx calories packs.

Chocolate tasting squares rule.

Even 100 calorie packs get me through some rough times.

Helped me get a good idea of portions there for a while.

 

[cati]

BiBunny... I can relate to the low iron thing. I've just spent the last few months trying to figure out why I've felt so lousy and why my brain stopped working (I will spare you all the details). My iron levels dropped to 4 (normal is 10-12 here) I'm just getting back to being my old self again.
I just don't eat properly, never have. Eating any kind of meat is the way to go, greens are healthy but the body just won't absorb the iron as easily.

I can't keep chips in the house.

 

[Recidiva]

BiBunny... I can relate to the low iron thing. I've just spent the last few months trying to figure out why I've felt so lousy and why my brain stopped working (I will spare you all the details). My iron levels dropped to 4 (normal is 10-12 here) I'm just getting back to being my old self again.
I just don't eat properly, never have. Eating any kind of meat is the way to go, greens are healthy but the body just won't absorb the iron as easily.

I can't keep chips in the house.

I get anemic as well. Even the Dalai Lama isn't vegetarian all the time, because it causes him health problems. I've found the same to be true for myself.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

First of all, it's a very good plan compared to what other people eat out there. And it looks like a lot of work. I wish I would have the energy to cook like this. And most people will have no problem with eating this - if the dishes come in normal sizes. Overweight people tend to eat more than they should though. You need to replace this additional food with stuff that has nearly no calories though and this includes no carbohydrates!

You replaced fat by carbohydrates. This is better than eating fat - but worse than not eating carbohydrates. Of course you read everywhere that carbohydrates are important, because it makes you feel full longer - but this is an overkill. Where are the fruits and vegetables?

Master is not a huge fan of fruit and veg although I do include a lot in my cooking as I'm mindful of my own needs because I don't have any meat or dairy. Also, when I have been light on carbs and heavier on other stuff, it doesn't keep him full for long. I guess I thought that complex carbs would be better than fat and keep him going longer but maybe I'm wrong about that one.

The same is true for lunch. Tuna is a great choice. Wholeweat pasta is a great choice. But without low calories stuff to get the plate full, it's not good enough to reduce weight properly. I have the 50% rule - 50% should consist of vegetables and/or fruits. Then you have spare calories for the sins later the day.

The 50% rule is a good idea. I will try to incorporate that more.

Of course, preparation and recipes varies, but those above would get the color yellow or red from me for now. Soya has similar calories than ground beef. Again, I can't see much vegetables in there and if so, they seem to play a small role. Carrots and celery are parts of spaghetti bolognase. How much soya is in there in comparison with carrots?

There is a fair amount of soya but also a lot of sauce, which I make with passata, garlic, tomato puree, red wine vinegar and other bits and bobs. I include lots of veg like red onion, mushroons, courgette, aubergine, carrots and whatever else is lying around the fridge. I buy most veg from a local market and avoid canned/frozen where possible.

Why beans?

He likes them and they're not too bad. They're high protein and we buy the cans with reduced salt and sugar. They're something of an institution over here in Blighty. They're baked haricot beans in tomato sauce.

My overall recommendation is quite simple:
When you cook, ask yourself: Did I use a can of vegetables for this meal? If not, how can I integrate it? If yes, can I add more or will it ruin the meal? For tuna pasta, you can use peas for example. If the recipes do have this already and just the short name didn't show it: fine, then you are on the right track.

I do use lots of veg but I can only really do this in main meals. That's good advice though.

One last thing is: What does he drink most of the time?

Water or sugarfree squash mostly. He has fruit juice sometimes in the mornings. L doesn't drink any tea or coffee, he simply doesn't like them. There's a water cooler in his office so he sticks to water there.

Edit:
But snacks are most likely not the problem, if they are really just snacks. I would even say: make the other dishes with less calories and then add an evil chocolate bar on purpose. This is often more satisfying than bordering on the calories threshold and denying every pleasure.

That's another good tip and one I'm going to work on. Thankyou very much for your input.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I love dark chocolate. >>

I found one that was 87% at Trader Joes. Can't eat more than an ounce, but omg.... thing is like a drug. lol

I eat dark chocolate because it often has no dairy. I've tried the dairy free brands but they taste like ass. I like to keep it in the fridge and then enjoy the luxury of taking 5 minutes to completely melt a square on my tongue. Heaven.

Master dislikes dark chocolate but I have tried blending it with some of my dairy free icecream (another soya product, very low calorie though) or home made fruit sorbet in a kind of McFlurry style. He likes that much better.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

In other words, fruit smoothie is FINE if you have no bread at lunch. Or rice at dinner. Or oat product.

Well when I say smoothie I mean fruit without anything else except a little juice or water to dilute it a bit. We don't put anything else in like yoghurt or grains.

Oh, there's also a product which isn't bad compared to wheat pasta which is pasta made from lentil flour - has more protein, get more mileage out of it.

Yeah that's good stuff. There's also a weird kind of pasta the local world food store does that's made from Indian gram flour, which is chickpeas. Tastes pretty good though.

I also make vegan sushi rolls with brown rice and dairy free mayo. I stuff them full of veg and pickles, good for a healthy snack.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Are you a maso? I'm honestly not being an ass about this, I forget whether you are or not.

Just think "spanking" or "light but considerable endorphin rush" or any kind of pleasant, superficial, high.

That's what it's like. I'm one of those people for whom a day just isn't a day without cake - and the only thing that convinced me otherwise was getting as sick as I was and the only thing that's making me think otherwise again is weighing what I did before my Year of Clean Eating. Because refusal to engage in your addiction doesn't teach you anything marketable over the long haul. I have to agree with Recidiva again on this insight - the "dry drunk" is still the same person with the same lies and cons only with AA friends to pat their back instead of drinking buddies. Me not ingesting one iota of refined sugar was still me ruled by refined sugar.

It's just not easy to refuse your friends like that. Damn, food is pleasureable. Food is entertainment. Growing up where I did, restaurant name-checking was like liking the coolest bands.

If someone just baked the best vegan cake ever and left it in their kitchen with a note "enjoy!" would you have one slice or the whole thing, chipping away at it the rest of the day, thinking "I should be done, just a little more..."

I think you're one of the minority of people whose gut impulse answer might be the former.

You're right about that.

Yeah, I'm a maso. I am beginning to understand, nobody has ever put it quite like that before.

My mother was 8 stone her whole adult life (pregnancy notwithstanding) and never had much of an appetite. She smoked a lot and had IBS so she never overate or filled her body with junk. We learned good habits from her.

When I left home and became a student, I lived out of my slow cooker. I was training as a nurse and working mad shifts in order to keep financially afloat. It was so good to come back and find a hot meal ready to dish out. My slow cooker even had a timer so you could delay when it started cooking, which meant I could work a 14 hour duty and still use it. I only put into it what I thought I should eat and so there were never any leftovers to pick at. I would come home ravenous. I bought that pot for £5 at a bootfair and I loved it till it died of old age. I'd have tubs of ingredients in the fridge and I'd just tip one in and switch the pot on before I left for uni or work.

I had Guillaine Barre Syndrome, which is an autoimmune condition that affects motor neurones, when I was 20ish. I spent a couple of months in hospital being tube fed because I couldn't swallow. Then I started on meal replacement soups and shakes. When I was discharged my weight was about 90lb. It took time and effort to put the weight back and I also had atrophied muscles which made it harder work. I saw food as a chore. If I could have taken 1 pill instead of eating anything each day I would have.

When I realised how intolerant I was to wheat and dairy, in my early 20s, I started seeing food as the enemy. Everything has wheat or dairy in it. All the dairy free stuff has flour and vice versa and don't even get me started on prepared veggie/vegan food. It's all stuffed with bloody wholewheat because it's so 'good' for you. I feed L wholewheat stuff but don't eat it myself or I get a pot belly and have digestive problems for days.

So my relationship with food is more hate than love. It's such hard work being vegan that I sometimes wish I could go back to IV nutrition and just stick a bag of goop in my arm each night.

 

[Netzach]

You're right about that.

Yeah, I'm a maso. I am beginning to understand, nobody has ever put it quite like that before.

My mother was 8 stone her whole adult life (pregnancy notwithstanding) and never had much of an appetite. She smoked a lot and had IBS so she never overate or filled her body with junk. We learned good habits from her.

When I left home and became a student, I lived out of my slow cooker. I was training as a nurse and working mad shifts in order to keep financially afloat. It was so good to come back and find a hot meal ready to dish out. My slow cooker even had a timer so you could delay when it started cooking, which meant I could work a 14 hour duty and still use it. I only put into it what I thought I should eat and so there were never any leftovers to pick at. I would come home ravenous. I bought that pot for £5 at a bootfair and I loved it till it died of old age. I'd have tubs of ingredients in the fridge and I'd just tip one in and switch the pot on before I left for uni or work.

I had Guillaine Barre Syndrome, which is an autoimmune condition that affects motor neurones, when I was 20ish. I spent a couple of months in hospital being tube fed because I couldn't swallow. Then I started on meal replacement soups and shakes. When I was discharged my weight was about 90lb. It took time and effort to put the weight back and I also had atrophied muscles which made it harder work. I saw food as a chore. If I could have taken 1 pill instead of eating anything each day I would have.

When I realised how intolerant I was to wheat and dairy, in my early 20s, I started seeing food as the enemy. Everything has wheat or dairy in it. All the dairy free stuff has flour and vice versa and don't even get me started on prepared veggie/vegan food. It's all stuffed with bloody wholewheat because it's so 'good' for you. I feed L wholewheat stuff but don't eat it myself or I get a pot belly and have digestive problems for days.

So my relationship with food is more hate than love. It's such hard work being vegan that I sometimes wish I could go back to IV nutrition and just stick a bag of goop in my arm each night.

This is like a flashback. I've had that same relationship to food. I don't know what it is about the elastic human brain that goes from this line of thinking back to "wheeee" in a year if you're inclined toward the latter, but it's the same battle all over again to clean up before I'm forced to again.

And the majority of people in the world are wheat intolerant, actually. They just haven't ever gotten to the point of 1. going truly without for a long time and 2. having anyone tell them they're anything but crazy for seeing what it has to do with their health problems. Google SCD to see what my dietary religion had to be, and then it's quite understandable how cake girl inched off the wagon again in what still seems to be remission.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Google SCD to see what my dietary religion had to be, and then it's quite understandable how cake girl inched off the wagon again in what still seems to be remission.

Hmm...

I got strictly come dancing, sperm chromatin dispersion, sickle cell disease, sudden cardiac death, single crystal diffraction and superior canal dehiscence.

Which one of these is your dietary religion?

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Ooh!

Specific Carbohydrate Diet? Doesn't look like fun.

 

[Netzach]

You said your dude was really sick - it takes more time for the brain to bounce back than the body. Anyone who's seriously ill, and you know this from your own experience, is dealing a level of depression, I don't care how well adjusted you were before you got sick. Add youth to that cocktail also, because even though it's sad when people who are older and middle aged are ill there's this constant barrage of messages that people your age, act, look, and feel a certain way and if you don't no one wants to hear it or see you.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

You said your dude was really sick - it takes more time for the brain to bounce back than the body. Anyone who's seriously ill, and you know this from your own experience, is dealing a level of depression, I don't care how well adjusted you were before you got sick. Add youth to that cocktail also, because even though it's sad when people who are older and middle aged are ill there's this constant barrage of messages that people your age, act, look, and feel a certain way and if you don't no one wants to hear it or see you.

Yeah he does feel like that. I think it's worse also because he was already overweight when he stopped being active and suffered muscle atrophy. He used to be able to carry his weight well but now it's just this huge burden that makes doing anything more difficult and demoralises him before he starts.

He did go and hack our back garden to death yesterday but he was doing penance for a donut at lunchtime.

 

[Recidiva]

VelvetDarkness, if it helps in any way, there are a lot of times when I just don't care about what I'm going to eat, but it is time to eat.

Setting times when I had to eat even when I wasn't hungry was a big deal for me personally in being able to be mindful about eating for fuel and nutrition's sake and not for pleasure and hunger's sake. Managing how many meals and how many calories and what composition of each meal is highly personal and I have had to adjust mine often over time. I'm fairly happy around a fairly narrow band of caloric intake, in part because my metabolism is unique to my illness and my personality and my brain chemistry.

I'm likely to end up fasting during times of emotional stress and sickness. When I was younger I'd fast for long periods of time, 7 to 13 days, usually. I'd do this voluntarily and then I'd do it involuntarily out of just not wanting to deal with food issues. Ultimately it ruined my metabolism and slowed it down. I have to be mindful of not deciding to skip meals, because I'm prone to that.

Setting times when I have to eat, even and especially if I'm not hungry, just to make sure I get the good stuff enough to fuel my brain and muscles was a very helpful step. I try to be reasonable and stick with the food pyramid.

My default meal is about 100 calories of protein, 100 calories of grain, 100 calories of whole fruit and at least a handful of veggies.

So for me that works out to having things in the home at all times that requires no preparation and no thought, and keeps well. I only shop once a week, so I can't have my default veg be salad, because it will brown up by the end of the week. Even frozen veggies take too much prep when I don't want to think.

So when it's time to eat I always keep on hand some organic cheese, organic crackers, organic applesauce in little cups and organic baby carrots. If I am disciplined enough when I don't care to just get that minimal amount down, I can keep the absolute basics under control.

During my menstrual cycle, if I have built up any deficiencies over the previous month, that's when I won't be able to avoid eating a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter in one sitting for the B vitamins or whatever else it is that I'm missing once monthly inventory comes around. A few strategic daily supplements, magnesium, B vitamins, multivitamin, fish oil, etc., help curb the big events so they don't really happen any more.

It makes being thoughtless and virtuous easy, instead of being thoughtless and destructive.

Hope this helps. Finding a good "default" no prep snack and a bunch of vitamins I take evey day was an idea that appealed to me when I get to the point that food's the last thing on my mind and I resent having to think about it. It helps me keep up the basics of nutrition until I care again one way or another to make something with love.

Hope you can use this to adapt to having a base stock of things that keep well, are always there when you need them, and take seconds to pull together and eat.

In my experimention with this being a good thing for me, the fat and the protein allow me to not get a short-term sugar rush and crash from just fruit and raw vegetables. It'll keep me going for four to six hours. And since I often have to take medication every four to six hours, I can always make this and keep it down with ease, and my system doesn't get shredded.

And when I say mindless, I mean mindless. I buy pre-cubed or cheese bars so I don't have to think about it. I buy little cups and not jars of applesauce. It's more expensive and in my case, worth every single penny that I save on my health because I don't give a damn about measuring or scraping a carrot. I don't want to think about portions or dirty a knife. I don't even want to do dishes. Paper plate and fingers if need be.

Fruit juice isn't as good for me as whole fruit. When I swapped out applesauce for juice I was in bad shape. Bananas and applesauce are fast and easy, but fruit juices, even organic ones, don't give my digestive system enough to keep her busy so she won't bother me.

So fruit juice and raw carrots are actually a nightmare snack if taken alone for me. I'll get a sugar rush and then a crash in 45 minutes and I'm hungry again. Starving, in fact. Unable to control going to the refrigerator and just downing the first heavy thing that looks like it will ground me.

Staying satisfied over long periods of time for me does require that I get some fat and grain in with each meal, and each snack.

So about 1200 to 1500 calories a day is what I need. Much above or below that and I start to go loopy. I'm either deprived and I a get massive cravings of fat and sugar, or my taste buds are dead and I eat only fat or sugar because everything else tastes like cardboard.

I'm fairly well self regulating now, but this is so specific it takes a lot of mindful attention. And again I'm prone to not giving a damn. Being mindful ahead of time and having a rule where I have an easy fallback might be a tactic that is counterintuitive, but of use to you.

It was a bit of a revelation for me to realize that my problem wasn't really that I thought about food all the time, but that I swung on that pendulum where I obsessed about what to eat and then resented having to think about it at all. I wiped out a lot of good opportunities to eat well because junk was just easy. I made virtue easier.

 

[Homburg]

VelvetDarkness, I've been to where your Master is right now. I weighed almost 320lbs middle of '06, and my blood pressure was high enough to need medication and monitoring. the doc put a damned good scare into me vis a vis strokes, and having seen my grandfather after a stroke I am terrified of them. Nothing in the world bothers me more than the thought of losing my mental capacities, or, worse, retaining them but being unable to communicate anything. My maternal grandfather was a smart man, sharp as a tack, and the stroke robbed him of the ability to speak, and walk, and control his hands properly, etc. You could see that great intelligence in his eyes, but he could no longer express anything, and it was horrific.

Realising that this could happen to me because of my weight and BP made me get out and lose weight. I'm in the 280's right now, up from the low 210's because I started to build muscle. I'm still way smaller than I was at 316lb even though I'm only 30lb lighter. Muscle is more dense than fat by far, and he can lose size and not change weight at all if he is losing fat and gaining muscle. So the scale is not a great idea if he is doing any sort of honest resistance training (and he should be, muscle is biologically active tissue, and will cause him to burn more calories even when sitting on his bum at the office).

--

You know, it really doesn't work in either direction in my experience. I've seen people "quit smoking because Master refuses to let me" and the moment the relationship ends (and it usually does) the smoking is back with renewed vigor.

Yup. One of my gals has some health issues that need to be addressed. Sure, she is my slave, but I know just as the sun sets in the west that me ordering her to do something about a given problem is utterly useless in the grand scheme of things. Slave or not, she has to WANT to make that change.

--

And I never said walk away because one's partner is depressed...she specifically said "moodiness" aka swings. That's unstable, IMHO, and not the kind of drama I need or want in my life, certainly not from someone who takes it upon themselves to be "in charge".

If someone's mood is erratic then I have no confidence in their decision making abilities especially decision making under stress.

I laughed when I saw this. I do not know a single top that I would not describe as moody, or somehow less than perfectly stable. And I know some that are flat out bipolar, depressed, etc. And the exact ones I am thinking of are in relationship, and/or actively have submissives expressing interest in submitting.

Substance abuse, or blatant lack of self-control, I can understand as reasons to not submit to, or even have a relationship with, someone. But moodiness?

No one is perfectly stable, period.

Oh, and, for the record, I'm a moody bastard. My dance card is good and full anyway.

----

We have discussed groups like weight watchers before and he flat refuses to go. It's really not his cup of tea and I am aware that he has to find his own path through this. I don't personally think that weight watchers would suit his personality.

I can't even think about dealing with that sort of thing either. No thanks.

Personally I'm in 2 minds about him weighing himself every day. He only finds it motivational if he's losing but when I have suggested laying off the scales and going on how tight his clothes are, he says it doesn't work for him. His OCD brain makes numbers more meaningful but I do wonder if he'll end up obsessed over the number on the scale and risk losing focus on his overall health.

If his OCD mind likes numbers, invest in a tailor's measuring tape and some bodyfat calipers. Have him monitor his measurements and bodyfat percentage. It's very OCD-friendly, and will give a FAR more useful and realistic picture of his health gains than just raw weight.

So I guess I'm going to be a gentle pep-talker and he's going to try not to be a pain in the ass. He does know what he's like, he just doesn't always feel like caring. We're going to invest in a rowing machine as he hates any form of public exercise like jogging and we can't afford gym membership right now. Ebay have a few on offer so we won't have to spend a fortune.

Ergs are awesome. I've got one, and really should use it more. It's a damned nice magnetic unit by Tunturi. I wanted a fan-style erg, but they're too expensive.

As I mentioned above, I cannot more strongly suggest resistance training, ie weightlifting. It is awesome, not too godawful expensive, and you already mentioned that he was a big, strong chap. Weightlifting goes along well with big, strong guys, amd, honestly, it's fat-guy friendly. It can also be done at home. Just look in the paper or carigslist or something for second-hand weights. People sell them all the time, and you can get em cheap (same with any exercise equipment pretty much).

If he is bookish at all, the book "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe is probably the best text out there for beginning lifters.

And I would also do well to mention that weightlifting, done properly, produces some very favourable hormonal responses in men. Testosterone levels go up overall, and this is incredibly handy for multiple reasons. Sex drive goes up, generaly feeling of wellness goes up, he'll be less randomly moody, etc. Depression, moodiness, weight gain, etc can be signs of flagging T-levels. Lifting heavy shit is T-friendly. Lift heavy using large compound movements (squat, deadlift, benchpress, clean, rows, etc), and keep the sessions under 45 minutes. He will experience positive hormone response, and you may very well experience a return of your Master.

There's a lot of studies being done on T-levels and T-replacement therapy, and the research is showing that a lot of male wellness issues like he is having can be traced to T-levels. Weight lifting is good medicine for that, and cheaper than androgel

If you want more info on it, PM me.

I guess it's just hard to acknowledge that I really can't help him much with this. My gut reaction is to feel that I'm failing him somehow but I agree with other posters that L has to take charge of this himself. I have every faith that he will in time and I also hope that the therapy brings about positive change as well. I feel honoured that he confides in me but it has taken time for him to acknowledge that - with the best will in the world - I am not a therapist.[/QUOTE]

 

[Sharon_]

And I never said walk away because one's partner is depressed...she specifically said "moodiness" aka swings. That's unstable, IMHO, and not the kind of drama I need or want in my life, certainly not from someone who takes it upon themselves to be "in charge".

If someone's mood is erratic then I have no confidence in their decision making abilities especially decision making under stress.

I laughed when I saw this.

She asked for my thoughts, I gave them. If you find them funny....
<shrug>

I do not know a single top that I would not describe as moody, or somehow less than perfectly stable. And I know some that are flat out bipolar, depressed, etc. And the exact ones I am thinking of are in relationship, and/or actively have submissives expressing interest in submitting.

If that's so, then were I unattached and looking for a partner it would apparently be a bad idea all around for me to look in that direction.

It would automatically assign me to the position of greater strength. In effect, I'd end up the parent to their child. It would make me unhappy and them unhappi-ER.

But to each his/her own.

Substance abuse, or blatant lack of self-control, I can understand as reasons to not submit to, or even have a relationship with, someone. But moodiness?

She asked for everyone's thoughts - those are mine - I wasn't bashing or denigrating anyone. I lack the patience, will and desire to cater to someone's moods on a day to day basis, it's too emotionally draining...I will not put myself in a position of being responsible for someone else's "mood", and think it's a bad idea for anyone to.

I cannot depend on someone whose moods are erratic. Since I hold reliance and trust as a cornerstone of any good, balanced relationship, well....

And for the record, since some are defining "mood swings" quite differently than what I was taught, from Wikipedia (usually a crap reference source, but it has a good working definition of how I'm defining moodiness):
"A mood swing is an extreme or rapid change in mood. They are commonly associated with mood disorders, of which the classic example is bipolar disorder (also known as manic depression) "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_swing

No one is perfectly stable, period.

Absolutes are seldom correct. There is no such thing as perfection, nor did I mention "perfect", that is your introduction. I said stable, and many, many folks *do* run on an even keel.

Oh, and, for the record, I'm a moody bastard. My dance card is good and full anyway.

...and I'm happy for you. Really. A full dance card is unimportant to me; dancing with a partner who isn't going to cripple me by continually trodding on my feet, is.