Judge Engoron's $355 Million Fine Against Donald Trump May Have Far-Reaching Consequences

[Lazaran]

I've clearly grossly underestimated the stupidity of people here; we're dealing with functional retards.

They literally don't grasp the concept that any asset's value is arbitrary and open to negotiation. Market value figures are just a wide scale assessment of a common value agreement and is non binding in actual transactions.

The concept of bargaining and negotating asset value is apparently unknown to them, and they seem to think if an asset value is assessed differently from some other arbitrary figure, fraud has occurred.

This level of ignorance and stupidity is mind boggling.

^
(Quoted for posterity, stupidity, and irony)

TaintyFuckBoi should probably read Judge Engoron’s ruling, and then try to comprehend the rationale for the penalties imposed on the corrupt orange traitor and Co,

The FRAUD was REPEATED and MASSIVE over MANY YEARS.



I’m sure if the corrupt orange traitor had been off by ONE thousand sq. ft. on the penthouse instead of TWENTY THOUSAND sq. ft. we wouldn’t be here right now.

And maybe if the corrupt orange traitor hadn’t FRAUDULENTLY valued mar a lago as being the most valuable piece of real estate in the world, we wouldn’t be here right now.

Again:

The corrupt orange traitor’s acts of FRAUD were REPEATED and MASSIVE over MANY YEARS.

That ^ is why the corrupt orange traitor was brought to trial and found liable.

It’s because it wasn’t a "one-off - (Most scams and rackets aren’t)

Hope that ^ helps.



TaintyFuckBoi

 

[TastySuckToy]

I honestly never knew that pawn shops gave loans.

And they also engage in every transaction that grossly inflates or deflates the market value of just about any asset imaginable. That's why they'll buy someone's TV for $100 dollars and then turn around and sell it for $500.

According to your ludicrous logic, they engaged in fraud, lying and criminal behavior.

Negotiating prices is not the same thing as lying about value. If I sign my name and knowingly overvalue an item... That is fraud.

Then by your logic pawn shops are guilty of fraud because they purchase assets from people at grossly undervalued prices. Usually from very desperate people who need a few dollars to boot.

Why aren't they being sued for fraud and criminal activity?

I'll tell you why: because it's a legimate transaction between two or more parties.

Negotiating a value means both parties are honest brokers in the deal.

Yeah, exactly just like Trump and the banks both having reached honest agreements on asset valuation and loan agreements. Something both parties have testified to in court.

Third parties don't get to jump in and declare fraud took place because they don't agree with the figures agreed upon.

 

[Rightguide]

Well, now, the judge in this case understood and eloquently rendered an impressive, coherent decision against those accused. He is an experienced adjudicator, well respected, and considered a reasoned person. There is that going for him, contrary to your viewpoint.

Go back and look at what he wrote. His court document shows all four of your declarations are wrong. The judge found Trump, his sons, and others guilty on multiple accounts. He fined them, took away business privileges for some, banned others, and pretty much installed at least a three-year oversight of Trump's Enterprises. All this points to his understanding that Trump's enterprise violated laws and would likely continue to do so if left unchecked.

You telling someone they don't understand enough about the case to comment is an utter and contemptible failure to use normal rationality or perception. By that definition, your statement was asinine. It points to your inability to accept facts over your preconceived notions.

Given your past history, I realize this will not change your view. You're welcome to it. So, others are also allowed to comment without your expressed approval and without bowing to your 'understanding of what transpired.'

The judge didn't do anything coherently. No one has ever used this law in this manner in history. It's all bullshit. It will be overturned on appeal. He pre-judged the case before the trial even started. The whole thing was undemocratic and without legal basis.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Dear God, please make this idiot stop trying to convince the world he's completely and utterly stupid.

We're now at the point where he's actually trying to argue that prices and value aren't the same thing. Prices are literally the mechanism by which we measure value.

This is getting ridiculously sad.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Posters here are so stupid and ignorant they don't realize that even the bank itself will exaggerate the value of an applicant's assets. This easily happens because the bank can look at your income, existing debt, credit history and determine that you are a good bet on making all your payments and thus the bank will make profit from you.

I know this for a fact because I just had
that happen with me on one of my own recent loan applications.

But they think this is somehow fraud.

I suggest you reread your source and find the part where asset value determination disagreement constitutes fraud.

So when you applied for the loan what documents did you intentionally falsify?

 

[Lazaran]

So when you applied for the LOANS over MANY YEARS, what documents did you REPEATEDLY intentionally falsify by ENORMOUS AMOUNTS ?

Fyp; yw.

 

[Veroe]

You don't understand enough about the case to comment. There was no victim, there was no swindle, no laws were broken, and nobody lost any money.

Try saying that to your bank and see how that works out for you.

The numbers he told them were not the actual real numbers he should've told them if he were being honest. Because he lied to them he got a better deal. That's called fraud, and committing fraud is a crime. So Donald Trump committed a crime.

 

[jomar]

Dear God, please make this idiot stop trying to convince the world he's completely and utterly stupid.

So take him to school and educate instead of talking smack. If you can, that is

 

[TastySuckToy]

So when you applied for the loan what documents did you intentionally falsify?

You can't falsify asset valuation. If I think my car is worth $10k and the bank thinks it's worth $12k, neither of us is falsifying value, even when stating two different figures in writing. We need only agree upon a value.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

You can't falsify asset valuation. If I think my car is worth $10k and the bank thinks it's worth $12k, neither of us is falsifying value, even when stating two different figures in writing. We need only agree upon a value.

Yes, you can. No one is talking about what anyone thinks, we’re talking about what you write down and sign your name to and attest is true.

You also didn’t answer my question.

 

[Lazaran]

Explain how Pawn shops are a legal and non fraud business model, since according to you, they operate on lying about asset valuation and therefore are committing crime.

^
(Quotes for posterity and stupidity)

TaintyFuckBoi submits the dumbest analogy possible to the corrupt orange traitor’s situation: quelle surprise.



TaintyFuckBoi

 

[TastySuckToy]

Joke for those here with the brains to understand it.

 

[dmallord]

Could you imagine if this was happening to someone else?

-Homeowner wants to build a second home.
-Homeowner goes to bank, negotiates loan agreement based upon mutually agreed upon valuation of first home.
-Terms and conditions are met, bank is paid off with interest, both bank and home owner are happy.

-Judge shows up, bangs gavel, declares home owner guilty of fraud without trial, says home isn't worth what the home owner and bank agreed it was worth.
-Judge initiates trial to see if home owner and bank documentation reflects the afore mentioned fraud determination.
-Both home owner and bank protest in court that terms and conditions were all met, both parties happy.
-Judge declares fraud can be victimless crime.
-Home owner fined huge amounts of money and denied right to do business again for years.

Leftist/Democrats hail the outcome as justice, mock any claims the outcome ia absolutely ridiculous and other home owners are extremely worried about the precedent this sets.

Poorly constructed line of thought. I'd cringe if that scenario happened. Your example, however, is very faulty. Home loans are not business-related situations nor subject to the same regulations. That's where you error.

For instance, you will not find a bank that 'negotiates' your secondary home-building loan. It has set rates for homeowners who want to build a secondary home on a take-it-or-leave basis. Those rates may be affected by your credit ratings, but you are not negotiating that loan as a small-fry loan applicant. You might get a lower rate based on loan factors: good financial score, steady, seasoned income, past ability to pay on time, and no bankruptcy within the last seven years. That's reality, not your hypothetical situation.

You did, however, forget to point out that the hypothetical loan 'negotiated' would have the same factors as Trump: inflating the square footage of the current home from 3,000 SF to 30,000 SF, for instance, as he did in his financial statements - among other lies he told to get the numbers to where he got favorable business loan rates. Your borrower would have to show the value of his present home and his/her/their income by substantiated documentation along with current measured expenses to establish an acceptable debt-to-income ratio. Unlike a business loan, home purchases are fairly straightforward. As a borrower, you don't get to fudge your numbers to fit into favorable loan criteria like Trump did. Nor, as a homeowner, would you do this repeatedly year after year to the tune of millions of dollars.

It's important to note here, sign, swear, or affirm that the facts stated in the loan document are truthful. If found to be lies, you are subject to prosecution. [Check any home loan forms if you doubt that.] Trump lied. He committed fraud, and the DA proved that.

Trump had a previous trial on this case; he declined a jury trial and opted for a judge to determine the case. He was found guilty. This second case was to determine how much he owned based on his conviction in the first case. He lied again in this second case. It determined how much and under what terms he would be penalized for that first conviction.

If found to have lied, a convicted homeowner would be fined, potentially serve time, and potentially be unable to get future loans based on past conduct. Certainly not be able to claim this is a witch hunt because the borrower was running for the local PTA President's election or some such excuse.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Home loans are not business-related situations

This is where I stopped reading your post.

 

[Lazaran]

View attachment 2318856
Joke for those here with the brains to understand it.

^
(Quoted for posterity and stupidity)

TaintyFuckBoi FAILS AGAIN at providing an analogous example to the corrupt orange traitor’s situation.

It’s almost like TaintyFuckBoi is trying to deflect and distract from the true magnitude of the REPEATED acts of MASSIVE FRAUD over MANY YEARS perpetrated by the corrupt orange traitor and Co.



TaintyFuckBoi

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

^
(Quoted for posterity and stupidity)

TaintyFuckBoi FAILS AGAIN at providing an analogous example to the corrupt orange traitor’s situation.

It’s almost like TaintyFuckBoi is trying to deflect and distract from the true magnitude of the REPEATED acts of MASSIVE FRAUD over MANY YEARS perpetrated by the corrupt orange traitor and Co.



TaintyFuckBoi

It’s why he avoids responding to what people actually write and inventing his own reality.

 

[dmallord]

Dear God, please make this idiot stop trying to convince the world he's completely and utterly stupid.

Our Father, in Heaven ... please make HisArpy stop trying to convince the world he is utterly ... [prayerfully fill in your thoughts here.]

 

[dmallord]

This is where I stopped reading your post.

Allergies and sorrow will do that. Hope you get better.

 

[icanhelp1]

The judge didn't do anything coherently. No one has ever used this law in this manner in history. It's all bullshit. It will be overturned on appeal. He pre-judged the case before the trial even started. The whole thing was undemocratic and without legal basis.

I love how the left is obsessed with inflating value. Value = what the market will bear. What’s going on in NY equates to NY stealing from the Trumps.

 

[LLCox]

I love watching people defend trump that he wouldn't piss on if they were on fire. He thinks all you clowns are losers.

 

[Sean Renaud]

This is where I stopped reading your post.

Were those the only words you understood?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

This is where I stopped reading your post.

And your lack of reading further is why you keep posting stupid shit that has no relation to what occurred. I said it before,and I'll say it again about you TST; there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I love how the left is obsessed with inflating value. Value = what the market will bear. What’s going on in NY equates to NY stealing from the Trumps.

More idiocy from Mr "I don't carry water for Trump".

 

[jomar]

Explain how Pawn shops are a legal and non fraud business model, since according to you, they operate on lying about asset valuation and therefore are committing crime.

I’m curious. Please explain how pawn shops, which are essentially yard sale negotiations about what the market will bear, are the same as lying to banks year after year about the about how much more your property is worth to get a loan, and signing off legally, then on the back end lying about how much less it’s worth in order to pay back less. Perhaps I misunderstand.

 

[Lazaran]

It’s why he avoids responding to what people actually write and inventing his own reality.

That seems to be a common tactic among intellectually dishonest Deplorables attempting to deflect and distract.

*nods*