La Cosa Nostra (This Thing of Ours)

[Cleopatra]

It can be how it's explained or phrased (sorry to be so unclear here..) I understood painplay MUCh more, when it was explained to me here, as Sensation play. And when we got into the endorphin talk. And when I started to make the connection between say, someone who likes to be whipped til they bleed, and my enjoying some measly hickies quite a bit. That they are part of a continuum, rather than separate.

Very true. I ws just speaking with someone about this the other day...

My point was, though, if people are introduced to pain via a softball to the eye, or a broken bone, and someone talks to them about wanting to get hit in the eye, most likely, they're not going to want to discuss it.

"Pain. Yeah - did that, thanks, but OW. No thanks"

Unless they're like me, who finds the human condition interesting.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

... digression from you digression (which assumes there Was a topic at hand)

and we sure as hell can't put them to death for killing someone either.

Reasoning and logic ... the civilized man's tools for not removing turds from the gene pool.

Totally subjective and anecdotal view on this, but.... The crazy homicidal person I knew best, also knew what she was doing when she tried to kill.
Her Reasons for Doing it were just crazy.
And she was a mean sumbitch, with homicidal tendencies even when she Wasn't having nervous breakdowns.
So I'm suspicious of that as a defense.

On the other hand, if that particular turd had been removed from the gene pool very early, I wouldn't be here! (And so far, none of her genetic carriers have gone to the tops of any towers with an M16. Maybe because those genes got mixed with some truly passive forebears on the other side? Ooowie! And thus we have the formula for a mean Warrior switch. )

 

[Marquis]

What a bland society we would have if all the givers and seekers were eliminated.

I feel like the only real problem occurs when either type of people tries to hook up with anyone but their polar opposite.

As far as being depressed and desiring death, I have given this a lot of thought recently. Is comitting suicide a right, even if they are depressed? This issue gained a lot of complexity for me recently.

As I've mentioned in other posts, I recently had a manic episode and have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I recently found out that this runs in my family, and is a secret that was always kept from me. I also found out that my aunt killed herself at 23 during a violently depressive phase of her disorder.

This is a fascinating philosophical question to me, because I have made the decision to keep myself at serious risk by not taking my medication. I don't think I could ever commit suicide, but I refuse to take a medication that would eliminate the possibility for me.

So to answer Phoenix Stone's question, while I'm not sure it's a good thing that depressed people kill themselves, I don't think we have the right to keep people from being depressed.

This post became more and more off-topic and expository as it went on, forgive, forgive.

 

[bridgeburner]

I tend to be kind of torn about the issue of self-determination in the extreme. I think in the end it really comes down to who else is involved.

Right to die? Yes, I support it in theory. In practice I think it's a shitty thing to do to those who love or depend on you, but ultimately, being able to take one's own life is the final word in self-determination.

What are they going to do to you if you succeed? Flog your corpse? The problem comes from when you make the attempt and don't succeed. I don't know if there are criminal penalties or fines, but they do lock you up in the psych ward for some period of time.

I don't think people should be forced to live if they don't want to.

But what if we're not talking about death? What if we're talking about people who like having limbs and appendages amputated? These people are out there. As much as it creeps me out personally, I don't know that I'm prepared to say they can't have their limbs surgically removed --- so long as my tax dollars aren't paying for the procedure or for the person's upkeep later on.

On the one hand I have a great reverence for life, but on the other hand I have so say "Gee, 6 billion people, is it really all that drastic if one of them wants to check out?" Are we so greatly diminished by the loss of that person or is our desire to "save" them more of a wish to save ourselves or a perverted desire to absolutely control them?

So how do we decide who's made a healthy, conscious choice and who has made an unhealthy, despairing choice? Is it our duty as a society to go around making sure that everyone is well-adjusted and not making harmful choices? That starts to sound waaay too Big Brother for me, but on an individual and personal level if I thought someone I cared about was unhappy or trapped by their choices I'd almost certainly try to help.


-B

 

[Pure]

Interesting choice, marquis.

I believe not a few 'creative' types have chosen not to medicate (or to do so minimally). They don't want the mountain peaks leveled, just as the valleys are eliminated.

That said, I hope you use the time you have, whatever it is. I.e., I want to *see something creative outta ya, not just weird moodswings while clerking in a grocery store and watching Friends re-runs in the evenings.

Bridgeburner makes some good points; we can't really second guess everyone's decisions. The play/movie "Whose life is it anyway?" make the point very well.

Spalding Gray's suicide likewise seems ordained. *Maybe* the manipulations were because too many were too closely involved and trying to dissuade.

 

[Pure]

On the story posted by rr.

Great contribution! In the classic SM tradition. IT refuses to die.

If you've ever seen the book "A taste for pain" by Maria Marcus, (which is old, but not unobtainable second hand from Amazon), it's a similar story.

One is drawn, in a sexualized way, to serious pain, degradation, and or destruction.

As she says, your common 'sadist' or 'master', like 90% of those around here is in a different ball park. He's a fetish partner on a colloborative journey to stunning joint orgasms. Not only as rr has said, is the person afraid of his rage, but he's afraid to say, "I love genuinely degrading you; I jerk off on your face when your self respect is in tatters."

 

[Netzach]

Everyone writing memoir seems to have remarkably cogent memories of being 4, trauma or no.

 

[bridgeburner]

Everyone writing memoir seems to have remarkably cogent memories of being 4, trauma or no.

Perhaps it is that people with remarkably cogent early memories are the type to end up writing their memoirs.

I've no intention of writing memoirs, but I have memories from as early as 2. Not many from that age, my continuous memories don't start until I'm about 3 when my mother was pregnant with my little brother, But I remember whole conversations, what people wore, toys and kids I played with, Nixon's first speech on Watergate (not what he said but the fact of sitting around watching it). No trauma that I recognize as such so I've no idea why I have such intact early memories.

I always assumed everyone could remember clearly back to their early childhood, but more and more I'm realizing that everyone doesn't.


-B

 

[Marquis]

I can barely remember before high school.

 

[Pure]

Same here. While I have patches of memory 5-10 or 12, I dont think I could now produce/remember a decent, coherent, continuous, narrative, beginning much before high school.

But Marquis, what do you think of the piece at the start of this thread.????

 

[Marquis]

I found it highly intriguing. I have passed it on to a few friends of mine to try and give them some perspective on this world.

I could see why this article would resonate well with a vanilla audience. Perhaps I'm a little jaded by hanging out with you pervs for so long, but the protagonist seems strikingly normal relative to the extremity of her fantasies. An interesting look into the fairly normal mentality behind fiercely taboo behavior.

 

[bridgeburner]

What? You don't think we're normal?

 

[Marquis]

Of course, this is coming from a guy who believed he had precognitive powers less than a month ago.

 

[Queen Bee]

Perhaps it is that people with remarkably cogent early memories are the type to end up writing their memoirs.

I've no intention of writing memoirs, but I have memories from as early as 2. Not many from that age, my continuous memories don't start until I'm about 3 when my mother was pregnant with my little brother, But I remember whole conversations, what people wore, toys and kids I played with, Nixon's first speech on Watergate (not what he said but the fact of sitting around watching it). No trauma that I recognize as such so I've no idea why I have such intact early memories.

I always assumed everyone could remember clearly back to their early childhood, but more and more I'm realizing that everyone doesn't.


-B

I was just discussing this on another forum today. I don't think my hippocampus matured properly, because I have hardly any autobiographical memories, and the ones I do have are sketchy. I can't remember details of, say, my fourth-grade classroom the way some people can. I can't remember huge, watershed events and discussions in the course of my relationships, which is awkward at best.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocampus

I'm a strikingly normal, suburban mother, wife, and cubicle jockey who is also a terrible perv.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Everyone writing memoir seems to have remarkably cogent memories of being 4, trauma or no.

I have several extremely intense and clear memories of being 3-4. All involved vomiting. For some reason, nausea and sickness imprinted themselves upon my soul with clarity.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Perhaps it is that people with remarkably cogent early memories are the type to end up writing their memoirs.

I've no intention of writing memoirs, but I have memories from as early as 2. Not many from that age, my continuous memories don't start until I'm about 3 when my mother was pregnant with my little brother, But I remember whole conversations, what people wore, toys and kids I played with, Nixon's first speech on Watergate (not what he said but the fact of sitting around watching it). No trauma that I recognize as such so I've no idea why I have such intact early memories.

I always assumed everyone could remember clearly back to their early childhood, but more and more I'm realizing that everyone doesn't.


-B

I'm like you, bb. My brother was born when I was 4. And lots of details from that day, including where we stayed and the kids we stayed with, whom I meet only once, that day. One guy played Concentration with me (I kept winning and he kept getting mad at me) and I recognized him the next time I saw him, 20 plus years later, when he showed up as a minor actor on TV. (His name's Cyril O'Reilly.)
Have a few memories, confirmed, of being 2 and looking out the kitchen window. Memories from age 5 on are as clear as those from last year. My mind is basically the same, too.
I remember falling down a short flight of steps and 'going conscious' in a sense that it didn't seem like most kids my age were. (Ran into the other room, yelling, 'I'm thinking! I'm thinking!' The adults thought that was pretty funny.) Anybody else remember when their brain switched from that sort of early automatic pilot, to really thinking about everything?

 

[Avery_Chisholm]

 

[Netzach]

I'm hinting at the fact that it's a good piece, but the clarity and cogency of pieces like this, advocating various facets of women's sexuality, like a similar I am sub hear me roar thing in Salon, are very tightly written apologias for something as weird and hairy and incorrect as slutty painslut sex.

It's very correctly incorrect. Nary a thing about it except for the actual sock in the eye fantasy doesn't fit in with feminist boilerplate of awakenings, bi, lesbian, straight-girl-non-heteronormative, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Marquis]

Boy, you're not easily impressed Netzach.

 

[Netzach]

Yes.

I'm a cunt when it comes to Salon, New Yorker, Bust, Atlantic Monthly etc.


A total cunt to be blunt, I shall not deny.


However, having this in the public eye defended by someone intelligent, it does not suck.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

...back on topic (but for how long?)

So we're a tough crowd, hereabouts. Lotta critics. Not that that's a Bad things, or anything.

In this case, it likely has something to do with the audience she was aiming at. Could well have a different slant, if, say, she was talking with Netz. All truth, just through different glasses. Why preach to the choir?

...and speaking of cannibals... -- we werent? well she did mention one in the article, which makes it fair game, no?(and no, I wasn't accusing anyone here, just a segue, or awkward, transitionless transition) -- anyone see the story about the recently convicted German cannibal (evidentally a big story in Europe) who found his late and tasty subject through online personals? The 'victim' being willling reduced the sentence from premeditated murder to manslaughter. (tsk, tsk, no choice here -- just not allowed.)
(Does this belong in Topopolis? We Did discuss above, people being given the choice to off themselves. Does method matter? Any votes for treatment here, or still laissez faire? Just askin.' Not sure where I fall on this one myself. Except I would admit this one to be a harder-core perve than moi.)

Comments?

 

[Marquis]

If people can donate their bodies to science, why not some weirdo's dinner plate?

 

[bridgeburner]

I'm hinting at the fact that it's a good piece, but the clarity and cogency of pieces like this, advocating various facets of women's sexuality, like a similar I am sub hear me roar thing in Salon, are very tightly written apologias for something as weird and hairy and incorrect as slutty painslut sex.

It's very correctly incorrect. Nary a thing about it except for the actual sock in the eye fantasy doesn't fit in with feminist boilerplate of awakenings, bi, lesbian, straight-girl-non-heteronormative, etc. etc. etc.

Oh, well, yeah, that too. I just got all carried away with the stuff I liked.

I'm a cunt when it comes to Salon, New Yorker, Bust, Atlantic Monthly etc.

If you say so. I'd just call it having a brain you're not afraid to use. There's good stuff to be had in all of those publications, but only the lock-stepping liberals forget that those mags have agendas and credos.

Yay cunt!


-B

 

[bridgeburner]

Phoenix,

There's actually a whole thread on the Meiwes Cannibal trial, but I don't remember which section it's in. If you search on Meiwes you should find it.




-B

 

[Pure]

Miewes has come up several times, for instance, in this forum

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=225273&highlight=miewes

regarding whether his 8 year sentence was too light.