Let's talk blues and drugs

[UnderYourSpell]

The wild bird seed that I put out seems to have less than innocent seeds amongst the mix and I have had some wonderful plants with beautifully notched leaves grow in odd corners of my garden planted for free by the birds and it is such a shame to cut them down but I do live in fear at such times of hearing a heavy knock upon the door! Admittedly I have dabbled in the past but quite honestly I found that it never had that much of an affect on me but drugs whether legal or not don't often work on me anyway primarily pain killers which have to be so damn strong to have any affect at all. It has been known in hospital for them to have to abandon pills in my case and put me on morphine before any pain relief is felt. When I sprained my sacro iliac I was given Dimazipan to stop the muscle spasms which did do the trick but I was told they would do odd things to my head but I got no such symptoms at all . So I am afraid folks any odd things that come out of my head are all me!

 

[unpredictablebijou]

The wild bird seed that I put out seems to have less than innocent seeds amongst the mix and I have had some wonderful plants with beautifully notched leaves grow in odd corners of my garden planted for free by the birds and it is such a shame to cut them down but I do live in fear at such times of hearing a heavy knock upon the door! Admittedly I have dabbled in the past but quite honestly I found that it never had that much of an affect on me but drugs whether legal or not don't often work on me anyway primarily pain killers which have to be so damn strong to have any affect at all. It has been known in hospital for them to have to abandon pills in my case and put me on morphine before any pain relief is felt. When I sprained my sacro iliac I was given Dimazipan to stop the muscle spasms which did do the trick but I was told they would do odd things to my head but I got no such symptoms at all . So I am afraid folks any odd things that come out of my head are all me!

As a true lightweight, I pity those for whom it takes heroic amounts of painkillers to get relief. Those few times I've had to take something for pain, I've had to tell the medicos to give me a child's dosage to start with.

As to natural highs, good for you - one certainly runs into less trouble being able to write successfully without any substances at all. I have a good friend who is a former problems-with-substances person, now clean for over ten years. He claims that he considers it a great compliment when someone tells him that he acts like he's drunk, or whatever. To him, it means he's managed to learn how to have a good, crazy, fun time without any assistance from chemicals.

Regardless of the moral / legal / psychological issues that are legitimate within a discussion like this, it can certainly be said that it's cheaper to be able to create without assistance, from the un-altered state. In that, my addiction to noisy restaurants has been as expensive as any drinking or drug dependency. Perhaps I can "get off" that habit eventually and just write at home where it's free to sit and drink coffee for four hours...

bj

 

[Angeline]

Another Bipolar soul chiming in here. I spend most of my time at one end or the other of the spectrum. Recently I've been primarily mired in depression and that's when my drug use kicks in. But the drug use also makes it possible for me to write some pretty good erotic stories; the drugs remove my shyness and inhibitions. I'm getting ready to "graduate", too; I've been primarily snorting various drugs and I feel ready to start shooting up. OMG, I want to know what that feels like sooooo bad. I'm occasionally psychotic, which adds a whole new spectrum to my drug use. I'm using basically "legal" drugs, just altering their use and experimenting to see what enhances my life. They all certainly enhance my feeling of sexuality. I'm 100% certain I'd do things while altered that I'd only fantasize about otherwise. But I do love to write, and the drugs make it possible. Otherwise I'm just too shy. My Bipolar disorder has never been even close to stable, so I think this just gives me a way to feel that I'm taking back some control over my life.

If you're telling the truth, I sincerely hope you will consider getting some help either from Narcotics Anonymous, your family, clergy, someone you trust for help. Snorting drugs, legal drugs like opiates, is potentially deadly as is fucking around with the amount or combinations you take. I'm as open-minded as the next person and I've also been treated for depression, so I can understand what some of your motivations might be, but you are playing with fire. I once had to call 911 after not being able to wake a friend who had unknowingly overdosed. If I hadn't awakened when I did, she'd have been a goner. As it was, it was touch and go for her in the hospital.

There are people and agencies who will help. I promise you, it will take control of you, not the other way round.

 

[Homburg]

Another person associated with that area. =)

Edit: I was talking about Normal Jean's talk of Western NC

 

[Angeline]

Another person associated with that area. =)

My experience was really scary. I could not wake up my friend. I could see she was breathing, but shallowly. And I did everything from trying to sit her up to throwing cold water on her. Nothing worked and I was terrified. She was taking prescribed painkillers and had somehow fucked up and taken too much--like a wake up, half-asleep, middle of the night sort of thing--we eventually found out. Misused opiates can turn bad on one very quickly.

As for the depression thing, well, I think it runs in my family, my mom's side. I'll probably struggle with it all my life but I don't take anything for it now and treat myself with diet and staying active. Pot is one thing--to me no worse than a beer, but this is why I don't mess around with anything else....

 

[unpredictablebijou]

If you're telling the truth, I sincerely hope you will consider getting some help either from Narcotics Anonymous, your family, clergy, someone you trust for help. Snorting drugs, legal drugs like opiates, is potentially deadly as is fucking around with the amount or combinations you take. I'm as open-minded as the next person and I've also been treated for depression, so I can understand what some of your motivations might be, but you are playing with fire. I once had to call 911 after not being able to wake a friend who had unknowingly overdosed. If I hadn't awakened when I did, she'd have been a goner. As it was, it was touch and go for her in the hospital.

There are people and agencies who will help. I promise you, it will take control of you, not the other way round.

Thanks for saying something much closer to what I was actually thinking.

bj

 

[FrustratedinFL]

Yes, I was telling the truth -- I promise -- and believe me, I've been admonished quite severely by the couple of people in my life who actually know what I'm doing. Weird thing caught ahold of me earlier -- there's someone in my life that I care more about than anyone I've ever known, and I started thinking, OMG, what would he say if he knew what I was doing???

Funny how a dose of reality can be very awakening. I've been fucking around with these druge for awhile with no thought to how it would ever affect anyone else in my life. I'll have to admit I am a much better writer (IMO) than I am without artificial help. Learning to write w/out drugs would be like learning to read all over again. I used to love to listen to Pink Floyd's "Brain Damage" while under the influence of SOMETHING, and then do some of my own writing. Right now I'm not drugged, just exhausted, and I feel like I'm not making any sense. LOL, there would never be a time when I was "drugged" when you could convince me that I was not making any sense. Geez, what's happening? I think I left my thinking ability in the car. I'll try to find it in the mornining.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Yes, I was telling the truth -- I promise -- and believe me, I've been admonished quite severely by the couple of people in my life who actually know what I'm doing. Weird thing caught ahold of me earlier -- there's someone in my life that I care more about than anyone I've ever known, and I started thinking, OMG, what would he say if he knew what I was doing???

Funny how a dose of reality can be very awakening. I've been fucking around with these druge for awhile with no thought to how it would ever affect anyone else in my life. I'll have to admit I am a much better writer (IMO) than I am without artificial help. Learning to write w/out drugs would be like learning to read all over again. I used to love to listen to Pink Floyd's "Brain Damage" while under the influence of SOMETHING, and then do some of my own writing. Right now I'm not drugged, just exhausted, and I feel like I'm not making any sense. LOL, there would never be a time when I was "drugged" when you could convince me that I was not making any sense. Geez, what's happening? I think I left my thinking ability in the car. I'll try to find it in the mornining.

Please think very, very hard about how it would affect the people who love you. I have stories much like Angeline's, and I know others do as well. We never cause harm ONLY to ourselves; the harm has an affect on others as well.

I have a precious friend who did similar stuff before I ever knew him. It frightens me, how much less beautiful my life would have been, if he had continued along that path to its obvious conclusion. Let alone what it would have been like for the people who knew and loved him at the time.

it's very good to see you re-thinking this.

bj

 

[Angeline]

Please think very, very hard about how it would affect the people who love you. I have stories much like Angeline's, and I know others do as well. We never cause harm ONLY to ourselves; the harm has an affect on others as well.

I have a precious friend who did similar stuff before I ever knew him. It frightens me, how much less beautiful my life would have been, if he had continued along that path to its obvious conclusion. Let alone what it would have been like for the people who knew and loved him at the time.

it's very good to see you re-thinking this.

bj

I have to agree with this. I'm a freelance writer/editor, and I am working on a book right now that happens to include information about someone the author loved who committed suicide. Suicide is somewhat different from accident of course, but anyone who reads this book will immediately understand that the author's life has been made agonizingly painful because someone he loves has died. When we die, we leave a whole chain of pain and unfinished business behind us. When we are seriously injured, we throw the lives of those who love us into terrible turmoil. If you could avoid doing that to people you love, wouldn't you want to?

And reality is our consciousness. There is nothing we can do to take ourselves away from it. Nothing.

One thing I am quite sure of from my own drug experiments and those of people I've known is that when we use substances, we alter our perception of how things really are. It's good that you're straight and tired right now. It's a good time to rest and give yourself a break from everything except taking good care of yourself and figuring out what you want to do. And there's always a better solution than the one that hurts us and the people who love us.

 

[annaswirls]

I've never tried to write poetry under the influence, but I have written music with all kinds of funny stuff in my blood.

I label it "high culture", meaning I have to get high again to bear listening to the rubbish.

hahaha!

surely it is not rubbish, but I know what you are talking about... I think of some of the crap I wrote in college oh my...

I just had to say that talent is talent...some people think, in their altered state, that what they say/paint/sing/write is profound... but that is just a part of the effect of the drug and in the morning.... dang... if you could kick your own self to the curb...

But when the real talent is there, it is possible to come right through the haze and blow us all away, sober or not.

And yes. Blues, drugs, widespread
self-medicating and medicating self through the wail
through the walls
gotta get through gotta get
through somehow
people do what it takes to survive

yo yo yo Amy Winehouse
my virtually non-verbal guy has picked up her
"I said no, no no!" in his first real attempts at rebellion.

 

[Senna Jawa]

a 4th one

celebration
​

 

[UnderYourSpell]

We think that possibly my mother accidently overdosed last year on something as seemingly harmless as paracetamol but it isn't harmless at all ... she had a enormous internal bleed her kidneys shut down and she was gone within a fortnight. Admittedly she was very old but until then she had been relatively ok and was caring for herself. Overdosing on paracetamol is irreversible so think on that if you are shoving stuff into yourself

 

[Senna Jawa]

and a fifth one

dim noise
​

 

[CharleyH]

It is all about the experience. How do you write about pain, joy, sorrow, lust you have never felt? You have to have a source, primary or secondary, but the writer needs some knowledge of what is written.

Perhaps watching Six Feet Under will do the trick for some? Gawd - that was a joyfully depressing series. Yet, I am sure that if I'd have watched it as a teen, I'd have written a kick ass poem all about life and death.

 

[hmmnmm]

Well I don't know about writers or visual artists. Leave that to them. But, if I think of the musicians/songwriters who used certain substances to accompany or enhance their work, and then they 'sober up' or 'clean up' whatever you call it, in just about every case (in my opinion) there's a notable difference in their before and after works. The after usually sucks. It's part of why it's a tough gig. Decisions and consequences all around. I was just listening to Jimi the other day, and I got this distinct impression that he somehow knew he wasn't going to be around a long time. So there was this drive and this fearlessness to throw everything he was into what he loved. Because he didn't have time to piecemeal it out. Maybe the heroin helped to soften the ultimate impact he knew was soon to be.


ETA: forty years later, Jimi's stuff is still ahead of almost anything anybody's done since... hm... been awhile. Incredible. My opinion only.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Well I don't know about writers or visual artists. Leave that to them. But, if I think of the musicians/songwriters who used certain substances to accompany or enhance their work, and then they 'sober up' or 'clean up' whatever you call it, in just about every case (in my opinion) there's a notable difference in their before and after works. The after usually sucks. It's part of why it's a tough gig. Decisions and consequences all around. I was just listening to Jimi the other day, and I got this distinct impression that he somehow knew he wasn't going to be around a long time. So there was this drive and this fearlessness to throw everything he was into what he loved. Because he didn't have time to piecemeal it out. Maybe the heroin helped to soften the ultimate impact he knew was soon to be.


ETA: forty years later, Jimi's stuff is still ahead of almost anything anybody's done since... hm... been awhile. Incredible. My opinion only.

*nodding, nodding* good point.

I sorta get that same feel from this week's "Sleeping..." poet. Notice his lifespan wasn't that long either. Perhaps some of the fiery feel comes from just being 22, but perhaps there's some of that same desperation there too.

bj

 

[champagne1982]

I think it's a bunch of hooey to use artistic talent as an excuse to lean on crutches... any kind of addiction is a liability instead of a tool.

 

[hmmnmm]

Crutches and Addictions: these are two crucial words.

I don't personally know of too many people who make their journey through life without some sort of exterior assistance - you know, some peoples' eyes weaken as they age, so they get glasses.

And while addiction is always a risk, it is not automatic. For some it may be a circumstantial addiction. For others a substantial addiction. For yet others, no addiction at all.

The overall wisest way is to avoid the risk. But practitioners of wisdom are few. It can go in any direction for any particular person. Perhaps into a new way to look at anything. Perhaps into a void. Just like the internet. It can be beneficial. Or it can be a void.

Lest it sound as if I am a missionary on a proselytizing campaign, my life is less rich today because of the loss of a few really good souls who I called friends, because they fell too far into the void. I really miss them.

So, this another topic with endless veins that beckon exploration, but it really has no one pat answer that suits all.

thanx

 

[unpredictablebijou]

These are all good points. I would differentiate between the use of any substance or altered state as a crutch, or an addiction (that is: 'I can't do X as well without this thing') and the exploration of altered states, through substance or not, as a way to expand both consciousness and art.

There are rational questions one must ask, of course. Am I dependent on this thing to be able to perform this task? Do I bring back worthwhile and understandable information from the state? Is it causing harm or making me progressively more dependent on it?

Obviously there are no easy answers. And for every writer/musician/artist who can attribute either part or all of their creativity to an altered state, for better or worse, there is a squeaky clean artist who is creating excellent work without any assistance.

Gets down to unique chemistry, I suppose, as well as one's philosophy and goals.

bj

 

[Homburg]

What about roshis, yogins, etc that use mortification of the flesh to achieve altered mental states? Are they using a crutch? Our 'enlightened' minds see mortification as a simple endorphin manipulation (among other things). but it is an altered state through external means as surely as drug use. So are these people to be called on the carpet for using a crutch too?

I don't like drugs. I've seen people slide down that path. But I'm not going to mindlessly hammer them as evil things per se. They're tools, nothing else. Dangerous fucking tools, but there are plenty other dangerous tools in this world. Personally, I avoid them, but, hey, if it took H to get Jimi in the right place to make his music, H it is. The world needs Beauty far more than it needs Mediocrity.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

The world needs Beauty far more than it needs Mediocrity.

WORD.

bj

 

[Yoron]

Drugs kill, mostly young.
For those who survive at worst it becomes their way of living.
And a f*ng stale way at that.

But hey, how many use prescriptions from the Doctor here?
Downers, Antidepressants, ahhh, what else?
And how many sip that glass of wine
Whiskey is my drug

Whatever.
It's only fun when you're young.
The older you get the more unstable you will feel on drugs.

( Ahh? Depending on your lifestyle perhaps I should add...
...off drugs too? As if you're so inclined then drugs'R'us right

And this definitely goes for the new kind of antidepressants out there.
Amongst the most dangerous drugs I know off.. )

Memories takes its toll every time.
Eroding you.

And as I said, kills the young.

It is said that in hard drinking country's those who couldn't take it died out (Sweden Finland Russia f ex.) Captain James Cook introduced Drinking, while on his travels, to the natives.
They hallucinated on it, as if it was lysergic acid diethylamide, better known as acid or lsd.

 

[sassynyc]

here is something to consider. if you dig deep enough, you'll find that a great many creative minds are also tormented ones. so many artistic geniuses are plagued with a madness of some sort. the gift of creativity is very much a coping mechanism in it's own right. almost like creativity is as much a drug as any chemical substance. of course there are no physical repercussions in being creative, but it is an outlet that relieves what ails you. self-medication in it's purest form.

it's as if creativity is nature's way of giving you a system of checks and balances to offset whatever tumultuous circumstances you may encounter. some circumstances are more tragic than others, some personalities stronger than others. the difference between buckling under weight, and strengthening because of it. for some, creativity is both conduit and crutch. for others, chemicals are the crutch, and creativity is enhanced because of it.

the true catalyst however, is not chemical abuse, or the creativity itself. it is human suffering. i defy any one of us to create a moving work of art without it.
even if your art is expressing joy and love, you can't fully appreciate those gems without having known hurt .

all that being said, i never condone or recommend living in a chemical haze. i do however, understand how some end up on that path. it's amazing, how fine the line we all walk, and what determines which side we end up on.

 

[CharleyH]

If you're telling the truth, I sincerely hope you will consider getting some help either from Narcotics Anonymous, your family, clergy, someone you trust for help. Snorting drugs, legal drugs like opiates, is potentially deadly as is fucking around with the amount or combinations you take. I'm as open-minded as the next person and I've also been treated for depression, so I can understand what some of your motivations might be, but you are playing with fire. I once had to call 911 after not being able to wake a friend who had unknowingly overdosed. If I hadn't awakened when I did, she'd have been a goner. As it was, it was touch and go for her in the hospital.

There are people and agencies who will help. I promise you, it will take control of you, not the other way round.

Damn you are an assertive bitch, Ang. I'd be assertive in a much different way that no one would enjoy. Nonetheless, where is the creative located? In drugs? In self? In strong emotion? In soul?

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Damn you are an assertive bitch, Ang. I'd be assertive in a much different way that no one would enjoy. Nonetheless, where is the creative located? In drugs? In self? In strong emotion? In soul?

I guess I'd offer the idea that within this discussion, the 'creative' is among other things innovative, communicative of new ideas, and perhaps of a certain quality that goes beyond just breaking rules for the sake of breaking rules. That's rules of thought and perception as well as the conventions of a particular art form.

So where does that lie? Probably in a number of different places, but I wonder sometimes if true creativity does lie in some realm of "altered consciousness", even if we simply define that as the ability to think outside one's cultural box. Substance or no substance, there's a commonality of a unique approach to an idea, a word, an instrument, a set of colors, whatever.

just a thought.