"Lifestyle" vs "Playing"

[MissTaken]

To build on what anelize is saying, I do think that for some, the reality of a BDSM relationship as a relationship first, gets lost in the romantic view of what it may mean.

IN any relationship, issues will exist and they may lead to a boring relationship, an unloving relationship.

No matter how much or how intense your kink is, the relationship is a relationship first.

Now, I am seeking some guy who won't leave his dirty socks wadded in a ball for washing!



This post sort of flows into Richard's thread as well.

 

[s'lara]

A little bit of this and a little bit of that

i've been lurking around this thread and have been reluctant to post to it.

Fungi ... You have stated in no uncertain terms, numerous times, that this is not a lifestyle for You. Ok, ok, ok. i know i have gotten the point.

As to the snobbery, i think Your preception is based on Your personal affrontery at being deemed a "lifestyler." What You may see as snooty disdain is actually pride and reverance by those who choose to center their lives around BDSM activities. i try to practice D/s and S/M as much as possible and surround my days in these activities when i can. i won't argue semantics about whether it makes me a lifestyler or not. Again, personal perceptions are subjective and rarely ever objective.

i find this kind of labeling divisive. i don't respect anyone any less if they incorporate BDSM in their lives on a 24x7 (yes. i caught that little pet peeve) basis or just in the bedroom. Fine. There is admiration to be had for all who explore, play, live with BDSM in their lives. It isn't easy to touch on that part of ourselves in the face of vanilla morality. So, lets mingle without hissing at each other shall we? i won't pee-pee in Your cornflakes if You don't whizz in my chex. *soft smile*

P.S. i deliberately did not comment on the playing/players aspect of the posts. We tend to have differing opinions about what exactly that is and i will just say a player to me is someone who plays recklessly and without forethought of the consequences.

lara

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

My major beef is with people who completely misidentify themselves, based on a lack of understanding of common terms. While we can debate specifics of what it means to be dominant or submissive, we almost all agree on a very general definition. People who meet no part of those definitions, yet choose to use the labels anyway, are the ones I have a problem with.

If all you want to do is take part in the activities, without any of the deeper psychological meaning, that is your choice. Just, for the sake of clarity, try to be more clear in what you are looking for. For example, wanting someone to paddle you doesn't make you a submissive, and there is no reason to seek that label.

 

[Netzach]

What does it make you?

I don't think it makes you Dominant. I don't think it makes you vanilla.

Where I get ruffled is where I see these labels applied so specifically as to create a kind of internal jargon, a way of actually keeping us from saying more, saying enough.

You may be a submissive who needs to center her life around submitting in an ongoing fashion to one Dominant. Great, what's wrong with spelling it out? I don't see why it should affect how the guy who wants to be whacked and made into slave for an hour has to talk about himself.

Let the guy who wants his ass whacked tell me he's submissive. I'm smart enough to figure out what KIND of submissive and if it's gonna work for me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

My major beef is with people who completely misidentify themselves, based on a lack of understanding of common terms. While we can debate specifics of what it means to be dominant or submissive, we almost all agree on a very general definition. People who meet no part of those definitions, yet choose to use the labels anyway, are the ones I have a problem with.

If all you want to do is take part in the activities, without any of the deeper psychological meaning, that is your choice. Just, for the sake of clarity, try to be more clear in what you are looking for. For example, wanting someone to paddle you doesn't make you a submissive, and there is no reason to seek that label.

I couldn't agree more Anelize. Was a major problem I experienced when looking for the one for me, so many men misrepresenting themselves and seeing it all as justified, not a waste of time and effort. Just because you prefer the word green, but like the colour blue, does not make the sky green because you decide you would like to call it so.

Catalina

 

[s'lara]

If i had to put a label on me, it would read "submissive/masochist who practices D/s and S/M the majority of the day and night."

i have a tough time with how exclusive the labels are because many people just don't fit the traditional molds. i think this was touched on in another post.

Yes, as anelize said, it is irritating to see those who don't really understand the terms rush to apply them to what they think they feel. i am a little more patient with my irritation because we all evolve continuously and the initial confusion is a part of self discovery. i can't fault someone for wanting to make a quick connection with what they feel and this lifestyle. Very heady stuff and it takes a strong will not to want to jump in the pool when You realize You found what You were looking for. i am sure those people who are more experienced now were guilty of feeling the same thing.

lara

 

[James G 5]

Re: Re: "Lifestyle" vs "Playing"

After all, an ass-whipping isn't the solution to all the problems in your life....now is it?

~anelize

It's NOT?
And that's submissive players you're talking about
what about Dominant ones?

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Re: Re: Re: "Lifestyle" vs "Playing"

It's NOT?
And that's submissive players you're talking about
what about Dominant ones?

What about the Dominant ones? Anyone care to take one THAT particular beast? I've done my bit for this thread.... *wry grin*

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Ok, kids, by popular demand...


For many people, I think claiming to be 'dominant' is an outlet for control in a life where most decisions are in the hands of others. Playing 'Dom' is a way to pretend that a person has authority. It can be fun to play at, but the 'play Dom' is a different creature from an actual Dominant personality. I'm not complaining if someone wants to top another...but it isn't the same as being a 'Dom', in the sense that we use the word.

 

[Etoile]

I actually prefer to have others make decisions for me, which is why I feel I'd be well-suited to TPE.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Anyone can call you anything.

As a Domme, I have had plenty of labels hurled my way. So what? I am only concerned with cultivating an understanding with particular submissives.

Whether you are a player or not is not really important. What is important is that you have the knowledge, experience, and personal power to obtain and hold a submissive who desires to submit to You.

I am clear about my requirements and goals. I look for subs who's goals can be aligned with Mine. If they want someone to cater to their personal kink(s), I tell them to go elsewhere. I assign no judgment to them other than to tell them I am not for them.

 

[FungiUg]

Re: A little bit of this and a little bit of that

lara, thanks for your posts. I've pulled out a couple of points to answer to.

i've been lurking around this thread and have been reluctant to post to it.

Fungi ... You have stated in no uncertain terms, numerous times, that this is not a lifestyle for You. Ok, ok, ok. i know i have gotten the point.

I successfully made a point? Really? Wow!

As to the snobbery, i think Your preception is based on Your personal affrontery at being deemed a "lifestyler." What You may see as snooty disdain is actually pride and reverance by those who choose to center their lives around BDSM activities. i try to practice D/s and S/M as much as possible and surround my days in these activities when i can. i won't argue semantics about whether it makes me a lifestyler or not. Again, personal perceptions are subjective and rarely ever objective.

Hmmm. I'm gonna be awkward and both agree and disagree at the same time.

Yes, much is about perception, and perception is, as you say, rarely objective.

I don't have a problem with "pride and reverance" (er, actually, I would have a problem with someone who was ashamed of their BDSM). For example, I admire several people here (Ebonyfire, ShadowsDream, catalina_francisco to name a few) who take a great deal of pride in how they conduct their relationships. I may disagree with these people in some ways, but I have never felt put down or "snobbed" by them.

On the other hand, I have had people refuse to talk to me, kick me out of chat rooms, tell me that because I am not in the "lifestyle" my opinion is irrelevent, etc, etc... Now, some of that is just personal dislike I'm sure (my sense of humour doesn't appeal me to everyone.) But I wish those people would just be honest, tell me they dislike me, and leave it at that.

I find this kind of labeling divisive.

Yeah, I find it divisive as well. Labelling usually is. But people use labels all the time -- it's human nature. So I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is people telling me that the label they have decided to give me means I am "inferior" or "fake" in some way.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yeah, I find it divisive as well. Labelling usually is. But people use labels all the time -- it's human nature. So I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is people telling me that the label they have decided to give me means I am "inferior" or "fake" in some way.

I think you are hitting the mark completely with your remark. The problem is not the labels, the problem is how certain people use them to create hierarchies and differences. I always try to make clear that I practice my BDSM one way but I do not put down or claim that the way I express my own ideologies makes the other inferior or myself better in any way.

This however is not only an internet problem. When I started out in BDSM, I encountered the same kind of ‘cream of the crop’ behaviour in ‘real life’. People tend to think that because they do things differently or are more experienced it gives them the right to treat others in a very demeaning style. I remember vividly one time where I actually had an argument about the colour of my pants that I was wearing that particular night (it was white instead of black).

Those are the persons that IMHO do the same in their everyday life, they have simple boring existences and they decide that the only way they can feel better is to put someone down. How often are we confronted with closed minds that simply can not see other ways of doing things? I think there is no way of avoiding them, those people exist and they will always exist, the only option left for us to choose our friends carefully and to never judge them as they judge us.

Francisco.

 

[James G 5]

Those are the persons that IMHO do the same in their everyday life, they have simple boring existences and they decide that the only way they can feel better is to put someone down. How often are we confronted with closed minds that simply can not see other ways of doing things? I think there is no way of avoiding them, those people exist and they will always exist, the only option left for us to choose our friends carefully and to never judge them as they judge us.

Francisco.

Yep.....I see this both in real vs players, swingers vs BDSMers (my kink is better than YOURS), etc etc
reminds me of an HBO special where they followed a group of crackheads for several months
At one point, the camera crew shows up at the crackhouse & asks where one of the regulars has gone
The crackheads reply that she's left them to go across the tracks & hang out with "those fucking loser heroin junkies."
So the crew goes to where the heroin junkies hang out, and there's the lady in question, shooting up on camera.
The crew repeats the crackhead's comment, and one of the heroin junkies says "They think they're better than us because we use needles and they think we all have AIDS. Well, at least we have out TEETH, unlike THOSE idiots!"

So even in that lowest level, people have to find someone else to look down on.

Human nature is sad sometimes

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

I have no respect for people who are dishonest. If someone stands up and says 'I'm a Player!', I respect that. I don't usually assign labels to people, but if they label themselves, I expect that they will do so honestly.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I have no respect for people who are dishonest. If someone stands up and says 'I'm a Player!', I respect that. I don't usually assign labels to people, but if they label themselves, I expect that they will do so honestly.

Sometimes I do not think it is a matter of dishonesty. I have found that some people do not have a lot of insight into themselves. Or they do not have the courage to face themselves.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Sometimes I do not think it is a matter of dishonesty. I have found that some people do not have a lot of insight into themselves. Or they do not have the courage to face themselves.

Well, yeah...which is part of why I don't respect them alot, wrong of me though it may be.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Well, yeah...which is part of why I don't respect them alot, wrong of me though it may be.

It is how you feel, and at least you are honest about your feelings.

 

[James G 5]

Sometimes I do not think it is a matter of dishonesty. I have found that some people do not have a lot of insight into themselves. Or they do not have the courage to face themselves.

That's dishonesty with one's SELF, the first, and worst kind of dishonesty that leads to further self delusion and hurting others along the way

 

[FungiUg]

Some great comments, folks.

What can I say? People have been lying to themselves for as long as there have been people, I'm sure. Self honesty is hard work! I think it's easier to put other people down and disregard them that acknowledge that they may have a point and hence challenge your own preconceptions.

Well, I think that's what is happening. I can't be sure.

When I first starting meeting BDSM people, I thought they'd be an open-minded crowd, having gone through the self discovery and self honesty thing. Thankfully in some cases that is indeed very true. So let's keep concentrating on the positive.

I think the general consensus I am getting is that so long as people are honest about what they are and are not, then that's fine. It's when people lie about what they are (for whatever reason) that the real problems start.

And someone being different to you or believing/practicing differently is never a good reason to treat them as inferior.

Maybe someday in the future the human race will grow up and out of the urge to label other people as inferior.