Lily's After Hours Club

[chronicle_tenko]

After this I'm done. As I said, nothing I say can matter.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Ok. I apologise. Allow me to edit.

All Female characters are DRAWN as eye candy. Not written.

All Male Characters are DRAWN as eye candy. Not written.

I am not saying that the character has been written as porn. You are saying, that any choice, any character in any medium makes, or any development of character, or any facet of character does not matter.

If they are attractive they are pornographic, and nothing else about the character can or ever will matter.

Big picture.

The male characters are no where near as over sexualized as the female characters.
BUT
more importantly, the rest of our culture respects males for things other than their looks. Most of the messages being sent out through the media about women are "you are only as valuable as you are pretty"
Again, you have to expand scope.

btw, 'Black Widow', even her name is sexualized.

 

[chronicle_tenko]

The male characters are no where near as over sexualized as the female characters.
BUT
more importantly, the rest of our culture respects males for things other than their looks. Most of the messages being sent out through the media about women are "you are only as valuable as you are pretty"
Again, you have to expand scope.

btw, 'Black Widow', even her name is sexualized.

After this I'm done. As I said, nothing I say can matter.

See above.

 

[Mister J]

btw, 'Black Widow', even her name is sexualized.

Wait, what?

I'm assuming you know what a black widow spider is, so I'm wondering how in any way that name itself is sexualized?... at all. It's a spider... a female spider that kills and eats it's male partner after intercourse. How the hell is that sexualized? Ya know, aside from the whole "intercourse" part.

Wait... do you even know anything about the character we're talking about or are you just basing all of your judgments off of her physical traits?

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Historically, the tern 'Black Widow' referred to women who kill their spopuses, and then grew into referring to women who seduce and kill.
Thats the etymology of her name

 

[Mister J]

Historically, the tern 'Black Widow' referred to women who kill their spopuses, and then grew into referring to women who seduce and kill.
Thats the etymology of her name

Yeah, because it would just be CRAZY if there was a GUY secret agent named "Black Widow". That'd be NUTS.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Yeah, because it would just be CRAZY if there was a GUY secret agent named "Black Widow". That'd be NUTS.

*shrug*
The character was built in the 60s. Thats the image of female spies. Femme Fatales

 

[Mister J]

*shrug*
The character was built in the 60s. Thats the image of female spies. Femme Fatales

Yep!

Oh hey look what I found!

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m376dlKx2J1qihjyvo2_500.gif

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Yep!

Oh hey look what I found!

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m376dlKx2J1qihjyvo2_500.gif

MY SILENCE CAN NOT BE BOUGHT WITH FLOWERS AND CUPCAKES!

I am more than capable of talking and nomming simultaneously

 

[Mister J]

*whistles innocently*

 

[Mephistophelily]

So I guess saying now the reason I posted it was because Hulk has a cute butt would be bad?

 

[chronicle_tenko]

So I guess saying now the reason I posted it was because Hulk has a cute butt would be bad?

No it would be hilarious.

 

[Mister J]

So I guess saying now the reason I posted it was because Hulk has a cute butt would be bad?

http://jchriscampbell.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/sexy-hulk.jpg

 

[Pain_Bauble]

I told Lily I was going to behave and not post on here until the topic changed, but this is.. quite interestingly enough, gone passed the issue into something altogether different, so allow me to try something new.

Everyone with me? Good. Everyone take a look at Vail_Indigo's diviantart. She's got it linked in her sig, but it's http://vailindigo.deviantart.com/ if you're lazy. You lot with me? Good, let's begin.

So, she has gone on a fit of trying to debunk objectifying women in media. She complains that it's about porn, and we've been still oppressing with our strong, beautiful women. She has ignored the debates to the offense about how characters like perhaps, Numbah 5 is showing girls and women in a better light. Hell, Korra might be a good example too, but they are still not helping. But, what I see here is this..

This is a woman, whom, having a place to try to provide her point. Having her own place on the net, and a means to provide a difference has chosen to use her own corner of the media to.. do everything she is trying to argue against us about.

http://vailindigo.deviantart.com/#/d3g6pfc
How would you justify this, and you did it so it's yours to justify, while arguing against women being shown for sex?

http://vailindigo.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=24#/d2p0fcw
How is this image better then the position Black Widow is in?

http://vailindigo.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=48#/d2ft1sv
We are watching Vail. We are, and you're not helping your case.

It bothers me because you have the body you're arguing against, and are using your images in as bad or worst ways as any magazine, television, or mulitmedia platform. You're not showing your opinion, your yelling it. Do you know what it's called when you say something and do something different?

As a comic artist, and someone whom has connections in the industry, we couldn't use your imagery without severe touch up on post due to not being able to pass the comics code (if it was still technically around. Thought, some couldn't pass the Miller Test).

I'm having issues finding solid ground with what you say because it's hard for me to agree with you. It's bad. But it comes back to what I said about the best way to change it is to change oneself first. Be better, and the world will be better. You're not.. I.. Dear god, woman. You've got no top in half your pics!

Yes, it's attractive, and technically it's art (sort of, depending if art requires meaning. It's complicated) but it doesn't really feel like someone as angry as you should be able to exhibit yourself in this manner if you didn't believe the images meant something.

*pants for a moment*

Also, to mention your journal entry, to add a super hero costume over a naked image using photoshop isn't something you can just do. Or, I mean.. do easily. Clothing is one of the hardest surfaces to draw, or edit over because of the way clothing moves over the body. This would be CS5 here, but you'd have to take your original image, and cut it out with the lasso, then turn it into a smart image. You then cut at it, taking all the unnecessary or blotchy outline (say in the hair), and set that aside. Then take your clothing layer, cut it free of the background. From there it's matching the layers, setting the scales, manipulating the light so the fabric is shown in the same light and shadow as the woman in the background, mask and opacity to see where the woman is and let the parts touching the fabric be highlighted, so you can add in the shadows for say, nipples so that they register on the above image. It'll also require a lot of usages with the puppet warp and content-aware tool to get the two images to flow. Watch out for haloing. It will easily kill the believability of the image.

If I was to say the steps to learning this gem, I'd suggest starting small with adding jewelry to magazine covers. Then hats, and practice until you could add say.. a shirt to a porn still. From there it should be just tedium, start one day, and do it a bit at a time over weeks to get the image right.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Whats amazing is how little I care about your analysis of my personal life since thats absolutely not what I'm talking about.
You've already decided I'm a person with poor character, which I also don't care about.
I've said my peace.
As I said earlier, you can listen to me or not.
I don't actually expect you to since you haven't this entire time, but hey, do or do not.
I'm honestly done.

 

[Pain_Bauble]

Yay, so.. Who's been reading DC's new 52 line? Anyone here read comics?

 

[Mister J]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpnuaoGUfJ1qafrh6.gif

 

[Pain_Bauble]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpnuaoGUfJ1qafrh6.gif

Hey, you can show contempt there Wolverine when you prove Avengers Vs. X-men isn't going to suck. I mean, come on. Cyclops shot Captain America without just cause. Reign that shit in man.

 

[Mister J]

Hey, you can show contempt there Wolverine when you prove Avengers Vs. X-men isn't going to suck. I mean, come on. Cyclops shot Captain America without just cause. Reign that shit in man.

But it IS going to suck. Just like the New 52 sucks. I dunno, I only read Invincible and Walking Dead anymore anyway. Opinions!

 

[chronicle_tenko]

Yay, so.. Who's been reading DC's new 52 line? Anyone here read comics?

Trying to. I have been reading comics for a good long while. I don't like the New 52, and I don't know why it came into being. But I don't like what I heard either.

I'm reading Red Hood and the outlaws. (Which is utter trash. Not just for Kory being offensive on almost every level. But because they basically turned my boy Roy into a walking catchphrase for snarkster asshole. And dressed him in tats and a trucker hat.)

And Captain Atom. (Which is fantastic so far. I am really liking J.T. Krul as the authour.)

Otherwise no not so much. Though I will probably pick up Green Arrow as a full trade. And Drop R.H.+Outs on issue twelve if there is no improvement in the title.

 

[Pain_Bauble]

But it IS going to suck. Just like the New 52 sucks. I dunno, I only read Invincible and Walking Dead anymore anyway. Opinions!

Hey there, Swamp Thing and Animal Man have been excellent reads. Marvel is ending what I was reading on their side, Moon Knight. That made me sad. Personally I'm more of an indie kinda guy. I've been reading the new reboot of TNMT that Eastman came out with on IDW. Road Rage from IDW has been a good miniseries as well. But, if you had to pick a comic, get the trades of Courtney Crumrin and The Sixth Gun from Oni Press. They shan't disappoint.

Trying to. I have been reading comics for a good long while. I don't like the New 52, and I don't know why it came into being. But I don't like what I heard either.

I'm reading Red Hood and the outlaws. (Which is utter trash. Not just for Kory being offensive on almost every level. But because they basically turned my boy Roy into a walking catchphrase for snarkster asshole. And dressed him in tats and a trucker hat.)

And Captain Atom. (Which is fantastic so far. I am really liking J.T. Krul as the authour.)

Otherwise no not so much. Though I will probably pick up Green Arrow as a full trade. And Drop R.H.+Outs on issue twelve if there is no improvement in the title.

UM is pulling Red Hood, but hasn't read it yet. I'm waiting to see the look on her face when she does. And steer clear from Green Arrow. Just check out the latest issue, then put it down, and never think of it again.

 

[Ahren]

Comic books are bullshit.

 

[chronicle_tenko]

I do however read Fables, Goon, and The Tick.

And I would Read Deadpool, if there weren't like 5 titles to follow.

 

[chronicle_tenko]

Comic books are bullshit.

Fair enough. The rest of us are gonna talk anyway though.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Wanders in to give out hugs.

Wanders back out...again