Link Policy Complaints

[Zeb_Carter]

Dear Manu,

Just an aside, 2018 is already over. I really hoped you meant 2019.

I have had people asked me how they can contribute to keep me writing, I point them to my website or to a place where my things have been published for sale. This is all via email.

Zeb

 

[AdmiralSquish]

I'm very glad to hear you're working on updates to help deal with the issue, it's a big relief!

I was not aware there was just one person checking submissions! That seems kinda crazy, honestly, the time frame for approval makes a lot more sense now. Why wouldn't you enlist assistance from the community, though? I'm certain there are some folks here who'd be willing to help lighten the load somewhat. Alternatively, in the vein of my earlier suggestion, I'm sure it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to rig up a bot to go over incoming submissions, watching for links and running the whole thing through a spellchecker, and have it auto-reject submissions that have more than, for example, one spelling/grammar error per 200 words.

But, getting back on topic.
Ultimately, the point of this thread was not that it's impossible to direct people to my patreon, I mean, Lit IS my second largest source of patrons, my complaint was that the existing methods available aren't very effective. It's all about making the option apparent, convenient, and direct. When somebody reads one of my stories, chances are, it's not going to spontaneously occur to them that they could potentially support me, and if that idea DOES miraculously pop into their head, in order to actually follow through, they'd have to click the author name, go to 'biography', read through, find the link text, then copy and paste it to the address bar to actually get there. By contrast, on HF, my usual header simply makes the suggestion and then provides a link directly to my patreon. No effort required. The more steps between the reader reading the story and the reader being able to support the author, the less likely it is to happen. Sure, some people DO make it through, the way it is now, but it's frustrating to see how much better it COULD be, with what seems like a relatively minor change.

 

[jaF0]

it's not going to spontaneously occur to them that they could potentially support me,

Readers are here to get their kinks, not to support you. Bugger off with your begging links.

 

[SimonDoom]

Readers are here to get their kinks, not to support you. Bugger off with your begging links.

It's an appropriate inquiry. The more value this site provides authors, the more it incentivizes authors to write stories here. As long as it can be done in a way that's consistent with the needs of readers and the site owners it makes perfect sense for authors to suggest ways that the site can support them.

 

[jaF0]

incentivizes.

A word I would totally banish if I could. Along with the similar one staring with 'm'.

 

[Hypoxia]

I was not aware there was just one person checking submissions! That seems kinda crazy, honestly, the time frame for approval makes a lot more sense now. Why wouldn't you enlist assistance from the community, though?

Because this site is Laurel's property and that is how she wants to operate.

 

[SimonDoom]

A word I would totally banish if I could. Along with the similar one staring with 'm'.

It's an inelegant word, but a precise one, without a perfect synonym that I know of, unlike, say, "utilize", which is an unnecessary replacement for "use." If a word fills a need I think it's worth keeping.

 

[jaF0]

I disagreeifiize absotively.

 

[SimonDoom]

I disagreeifiize absotively.

I suppose the word "incent" is an appropriate synonym, but I can't recall seeing that word used very often. It's a case where the more cumbersome word has become the much more common word, as far as I can tell. That's not true of "utliize" or the fictional examples you give.

 

[NotWise]

I suppose the word "incent" is an appropriate synonym, but I can't recall seeing that word used very often. It's a case where the more cumbersome word has become the much more common word, as far as I can tell. That's not true of "utliize" or the fictional examples you give.

In this case I think "motivate" would be a drop-in replacement for "incentivize."

 

[jaF0]

I suppose the word "incent" is an appropriate synonym, but I can't recall seeing that word used very often.

Your previous post gave me the incentive to create equally silly words.

 

[AdmiralSquish]

Readers are here to get their kinks, not to support you. Bugger off with your begging links.

"I'm just here to watch a movie, not support some crappy theater. I really don't think the cuffs are necessary, officer."

I don't think it's even SLIGHTLY unreasonable to attempt to get paid for one's work. Like, these stories don't just materialize out of thin air, they take time and effort to create. I'd love to be able to sell all my stuff on Amazon, but their policies don't like a lot of the stuff I've written, so I'm kinda stuck. Patreon allows those people who like my work and can afford to support my writing or to do so, while still allowing the my content to be made available freely.

 

[SimonDoom]

"I'm just here to watch a movie, not support some crappy theater. I really don't think the cuffs are necessary, officer."

I don't think it's even SLIGHTLY unreasonable to attempt to get paid for one's work. Like, these stories don't just materialize out of thin air, they take time and effort to create. I'd love to be able to sell all my stuff on Amazon, but their policies don't like a lot of the stuff I've written, so I'm kinda stuck. Patreon allows those people who like my work and can afford to support my writing or to do so, while still allowing the my content to be made available freely.

My default position is to make the system as free and flexible to let people do what they want and benefit in any way they see fit. If authors can get a profit for writing stories, that's great, it will incentivize/incent/motivate/encourage them to write more stories. That's a good thing for everybody.

Patreon seems like a great concept to me, but I don't know if the majority of its users actually get a worthwhile return on their investment of time and money.

 

[KeithD]

One thing that perhaps also should be considered; already there is enough hatred and back-biting in some categories with only scores being given. Could that even get worse; people being downvoted and overloaded with negative comments, in an attempt to affect their income?

Extending on this, if you pick up harassers here on Lit. and you've provided a lot of links to your work elsewhere, you take the risk they will follow you there and dirty up that nest as well.

 

[jaF0]

I don't think it's even SLIGHTLY unreasonable to attempt to get paid for one's work.

Not the issue. Posting here knowing it's free for all, but trying to redirect readers elsewhere is.

Post wherever you want to that pays whatever you think your stuff will command. But don't use this place as a signpost.

 

[SimonDoom]

Extending on this, if you pick up harassers here on Lit. and you've provided a lot of links to your work elsewhere, you take the risk they will follow you there and dirty up that nest as well.

Isn't the appropriate recourse to this risk to be assumed by the author, rather than dictated by the Site? Authors can take whatever steps they deem appropriate to minimize these risks. But this is no reason for the Site to squash links that give authors opportunities to get paid.

 

[jaF0]

Isn't the appropriate recourse to this risk to be assumed by the author, rather than dictated by the Site?

But this is no reason for the Site to squash links that give authors opportunities to get paid.

I'm pretty sure this site gets something from clicks to stories even if we don't see ads directly. Maybe related to the other portions of the site. Traffic adds value. Enticing visitors to go off site diminishes that.

 

[KeithD]

Isn't the appropriate recourse to this risk to be assumed by the author, rather than dictated by the Site? Authors can take whatever steps they deem appropriate to minimize these risks. But this is no reason for the Site to squash links that give authors opportunities to get paid.

Yes, they (and I) already do by providing any link at all to places their works can be bought for money. The site already supports this in several ways--in the author profile, in the author's sig line, by way of a thread permitting advertising of for-pay work. I don't see any reason on God's green acre that they also should let posters say, "for the rest of the story, go buy it here," providing a link or slap a "go away from here now to my pay site" in the middle of a story.

I'll bet I have more works for sale in the market than anyone else participating in Literotica. The current setup is just fine for me. My formula is to have it in the marketplace for some time before making it available here for free read. Readers can find my pay outlets by what Lit. already lets me link. I don't push it and don't intentionally do anything that suggests that the reader leave here now and go anywhere else.

Most users here trying to move Lit. users over to someplace else to sell stories/books don't have a clue on how productive you have to be in the marketplace to have a buyer base in the first place.

 

[PennameWombat]

Isn't the appropriate recourse to this risk to be assumed by the author, rather than dictated by the Site? Authors can take whatever steps they deem appropriate to minimize these risks. But this is no reason for the Site to squash links that give authors opportunities to get paid.

Because this site is Laurel's property and that is how she wants to operate.

I'm just including these two quotes because I think they frame this issue. I would love to have my work in the "marketplace" but I'm also realistic about my hackiness. I also understand that Laurel owns this site and offers it to us as readers and authors based on a set of published T&Cs. You accept those T&Cs when you come here and use a platform you don't own. But that's the same on any and all social media platforms. If you disagree with the T&Cs you can go elsewhere or build your own platform.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I can understand people wanting to make money off their Literotica work. I like money too! But if L&M decide to open up opportunities for people to monetise their Literotica work, I surely hope that's going to be accompanied by a lot of work on beefing up account security.

Literotica was built 20 years ago, in a kinder gentler era before concepts like "two-factor authentication" were common parlance. Over on more recent media like Twitter and Tumblr, account theft is commonplace - get access, then use the victim's account to spam links to your own sites or whatever.

The only reason Literotica doesn't have a big problem with account theft is that accounts here aren't worth stealing. The current link policy means there's not much option for making money off somebody's account. (Literotica content gets stolen all the time, but that's a different issue.)

When accounts can be monetised, that changes. I hope Literotica's ready to deal with that.

 

[jaF0]

^^ THAT'S the M word. I knew some bumblebrain would infest this thread with it eventually.

 

[Handley_Page]

"Originally Posted by AdmiralSquish
I don't think it's even SLIGHTLY unreasonable to attempt to get paid for one's work."

And quite right too.
But it strikes me that you are, as it were, 'grubbing about in the mud' rather than getting a real Literary Editor and publisher behind you. That said, it's worth remembering that Frank Herbert tried 22 places before 'Dune' got published.
If your work is good and desired, get a professional.

Lit works because it's FREE. It is not here to help you or anyone else to get a leg up in the Literary world. it's here to enable a would-be author to get some exposure and advice while, at the same time, permitting a bit of fun.

 

[Handley_Page]

Take a look here:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=90338380#post90338380

 

[ChloeTzang]

Most users here trying to move Lit. users over to someplace else to sell stories/books don't have a clue on how productive you have to be in the marketplace to have a buyer base in the first place.

Oh, so true. It's hard work to build that base and anyone that think's there's an easy solution is dreaming.

To start with, your writing's got to be good enough that people will willingly pay for it. A lot of Literotica readers are here for the free stuff, and most of them don't translate to Amazon sales. I haven't tried Smashwords myself yet, but that's on the to do list for this year, along with my own website and building an email list.

Personally, I think Literotica is pretty good the way it is. You can do some limited self promotion through your profile and for anyone who likes your writing enough to look at your profile, that's great.

I always find it interesting to see what Wattpad is doing, they have a lot of venture capital funding, they working actively all the time to see how they can improve their site for everyone; themselves, readers and writers. Personally, I think seeing what they do and cherry-picking features would be an absolutely great way for Literotica to stay in the game and competitive in their niche. Wattpad have invested millions on all of this and they have a big team - let them do all the hard work researching and then piggy-back of their successes.

And Wattpad is competitive. They're allowing "mature" content, as long as it's labeled as such, and they are actively looking to see how they can make Wattpad productive for writers - including how writers can monetize their work. Links to writers blogs or site, to Amazon, you can do all of that their and I don't think it's an either or. They recognize that their readers like the free stuff, but also that they may want to support writers they like and that's how they position it. I think that's a very positive thing for them to do and one that seeing here on Literotica would be great too.

What they're working on now is "Wattpad Coins" which is basically paid content. I don't like that but I think the "buy me a coffee" thing would be good to see. I have no idea how that's done, but it strikes me as a way to allow readers to reward and author whose works they really enjoy.

 

[gordo12]

Speaking as someone that runs 1500 websites I can tell you that links are deadly.

Todays valid link is tomorrow's spam, virus, phishing, hijacking, God knows what else.

Websites go out of business all the time and the bad guys know that. They'll pick them up and convert them to something you really don't want to visit.

You'd have to be checking every outgoing link constantly to maintain your site.

I can imagine the howls of discontent the first time someone gets hijacked or a virus. You'd be blaming the site admins for ALLOWING links.

Nothing will take a site down faster in the search engines than having spammy links in their content.

To keep this place clean I understand WHY they would put limits on it.