Lit poetry: Porn vs. the erotic

[twelveoone]

Might be much nicer to read, yes, but not to type at 1:30 AM. It was not meant to be part of any discussion, but a jab at a friend who already knew what I thought of the subject. Besides, it spurred a lot of discussion, so it couldn't have been all bad.


If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

That's really the crux, isn't it? Works by Manet, Joyce, Miller, Lawrence, Ballard, Ellis, Welsh - they have every resemblance of pornography but, somehow, one argues they are no longer pornography as such - as if the word were an infectious disease carrier. We can't call them erotic, because they're certainly not within the realm of Eros, but we obviously can't call them pornography - a word set apart for the sleaziest of sleaze. So, we just call them what, hyper-realists? Naturalists? Or just call it art and hope no one notices the inconsistency.

I say no. They are pornography, patently, and they draw great strength from it.


So you do understand my point. An overtly pornographic novel that carries a deeper message hidden under the superficial layer of gratuitous sex and violence can be much more poetic and effective than any novel that deals with the same subject open- and blatantly.

Surprised? Only thing I have to add is "Literotica" has a better ring to it than "Literpornotopia", although it too often reaches that low point with multiple 17 syllable submissions surfeit with cum, cunt, and cock.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" took, Bartok's twelve-tone compostions did not.

They didn't?

 

[twelveoone]

when was the last time you hummed one?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

when was the last time you hummed one?

They weren't made to be hummed, though, were they? When was the last time you hummed Eliot's "The Waste Land"?

 

[Eleanora Day]

They weren't made to be hummed, though, were they? When was the last time you hummed Eliot's "The Waste Land"?

I sang it to Yankee Doodle Dandy.

 

[bogusbrig]

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

That's really the crux, isn't it? Works by Manet, Joyce, Miller, Lawrence, Ballard, Ellis, Welsh - they have every resemblance of pornography but, somehow, one argues they are no longer pornography as such - as if the word were an infectious disease carrier. We can't call them erotic, because they're certainly not within the realm of Eros, but we obviously can't call them pornography - a word set apart for the sleaziest of sleaze. So, we just call them what, hyper-realists? Naturalists? Or just call it art and hope no one notices the inconsistency.

Rape is sex, as is seduction but we wouldn't call rape, seduction and hopefully we wouldn't call seduction, rape but it's all sex.

I still contend that intent and context are important and to call all writing about graphic sex pornography is to miss the point.

Though it is all sex.

 

[RhymeFairy]

OK peeps. I see the light. I have to make this comment.

I have noticed there are some out there who expect erotic poetry to be a certain form, and that is that. Then on the other end of the spectrum, we have those who like a lil trash talk ... words in there erotic poetry.

That is what seems to be under discussion here. I have written both, as you all know. And ya know what? I think I shall continue doing just that. It does not mean I am a bad writer to talk trash in my poetry. It is just a differ form of expressing what you feel. I will always write. No matter where I am. It is a part of me, and forever will be. Also, I will grow as a poet, as long as I continue to keep my eyes open to new opportunities and read others work. I am such an avid reader, so that is NO problem, lol. I love nothing and everything to do with words, and writing. As long as I breathe, I shall write. Good ... Bad ... Erotic ... Non ... Smutty Porn ... or Mainstream

Just write and have fun. That is what it means to me ... to write ~

Just my opinion, for what it counts ~

 

[Tattler]

OK peeps. I see the light. I have to make this comment.

I have noticed there are some out there who expect erotic poetry to be a certain form, and that is that. Then on the other end of the spectrum, we have those who like a lil trash talk ... words in there erotic poetry.

That is what seems to be under discussion here. I have written both, as you all know. And ya know what? I think I shall continue doing just that. It does not mean I am a bad writer to talk trash in my poetry. It is just a differ form of expressing what you feel. I will always write. No matter where I am. It is a part of me, and forever will be. Also, I will grow as a poet, as long as I continue to keep my eyes open to new opportunities and read others work. I am such an avid reader, so that is NO problem, lol. I love nothing and everything to do with words, and writing. As long as I breathe, I shall write. Good ... Bad ... Erotic ... Non ... Smutty Porn ... or Mainstream

Just write and have fun. That is what it means to me ... to write ~

Just my opinion, for what it counts ~

"as you all know"

are you so sure?

 

[RhymeFairy]

"as you all know"

are you so sure?

Tattler ~ Welcome to Lit, and the poetry thread ~

If you had been here before this eve, then Yes, more than likely YOU would have known I write both smutt and erotic ... *grins. I am in NO way saying I am THAT good. Just when you are here at Lit, and on the Poetry threads, one kinda gets a feel ... and a read of others poetry. *smiles*

Stick around, Write ~ Have fun ~

Looking forward to reading your poetry ~

 

[Jennifer C]

Tattler ~ Welcome to Lit, and the poetry thread ~

If you had been here before this eve, then Yes, more than likely YOU would have known I write both smutt and erotic ... *grins. I am in NO way saying I am THAT good. Just when you are here at Lit, and on the Poetry threads, one kinda gets a feel ... and a read of others poetry. *smiles*

Stick around, Write ~ Have fun ~

Looking forward to reading your poetry ~

What RF said

 

[Tattler]

Tattler ~ Welcome to Lit, and the poetry thread ~

If you had been here before this eve, then Yes, more than likely YOU would have known I write both smutt and erotic ... *grins. I am in NO way saying I am THAT good. Just when you are here at Lit, and on the Poetry threads, one kinda gets a feel ... and a read of others poetry. *smiles*

Stick around, Write ~ Have fun ~

Looking forward to reading your poetry ~

Thank you for the welcome but I am not new here. I have read some of your poetry,and others, and most of the new poems posted for several months and most of the new threads. This forum has changed a lot- for the worse.

Why are you really here, RhymeFairy?

 

[RhymeFairy]

Thank you for the welcome but I am not new here. I have read some of your poetry,and others, and most of the new poems posted for several months and most of the new threads. This forum has changed a lot- for the worse.

Why are you really here, RhymeFairy?

I will not get into a pissing contest with anyone Tattler.
I am here to read, write and enjoy myself, like many others.
Thank You for your interest. I have said, all I shall on this matter.
Have a Super Great Day ~~

 

[CharleyH]

I will not get into a pissing contest with anyone.

Now - there is a "porn" poem, (could be erotic) if I ever heard one! LOL


Why not?

 

[CharleyH]

This brings to my mind something I read by a person I consider an amazing poet. The poem was about Golden Showers as far as I could interpret, but he took it down. Unfortunate, it was a good poem.

If a sex site is about sex, then should not all sex be allowed (short of illegal, of course). We all have kinks and things we like and detest. Can we, as authors of erotic poetry appreciate a poem that is not exactly something we like when the theme goes against our boundaries? Can we truly appreciate and respect other people's kinks when it appears explicitly or even implicitly, in a poem?

Maybe ... even though its a sex site and few know us ... many just cant be free in their sexuality, wants, kinks and fantasies? Just a thought.

 

[RhymeFairy]

This brings to my mind something I read by a person I consider an amazing poet.

If a sex site is about sex, then should not all sex be allowed (short of illegal, of course). We all have kinks and things we like and detest. Can we, as authors of erotic poetry appreciate a poem that is not exactly something we like when the theme goes against our boundaries? Can we truly appreciate and respect other people's kinks when it appears explicitly or even implicitly, in a poem?

*Bravo*

Did you do that from memory,
or is it all Yours? I like it. Very true,
if ya ask me. Just me. Lol ~

 

[CharleyH]

*Bravo*

Did you do that from memory,
or is it all Yours? I like it. Very true,
if ya ask me. Just me. Lol ~

Sorry - I made an add. Its all mine, baby! Why? should it be in a philosophy book?

 

[Tathagata]

This forum has changed a lot- for the worse.

And you've come to..
state the obvious or change things?

 

[Remec]

Sorry - I made an add. Its all mine, baby! Why? should it be in a philosophy book?

"CharleyH's Thoughts on Life and Writing"
You know I'd buy a copy. <smile>

 

[Tathagata]

Persephone or,

Why the Winters Seem to Be

Getting Longer
by Wendy Froud




Six pomegranate seeds, as red as rubies, like on a golden plate. They glow with crimson fire in the candlelight. My lord bids me eat. I can feel his hands upon my shoulders. I can feel his breath hot upon my neck. I eat the first fruit, and as I taste, my lord tastes the skin of my throat, where the scent of flowers still lingers.



In the world above, the daylight fades. The wind blows cold among the trees.



The second seed is eaten, and my lord kneels at my feet. His hands reach for my breasts, and through the fabric of my gown I feel his caress, first soft, then hard. I watch my nipples rise then strain against the thin gold silk. He takes a small knife away from the table and, holding it delicately, cuts through the neckline of my dress. The fabric tears, parting from white flesh, and falls away.



In the world above, as night draws close, the grasses turn in the wind. Flowers bend. Petals fall.



My nipples are the color of crimson seeds. The third seed is upon my lips as my lord suckles at my breasts, tracing circles of fire with his tongue. They ripen like fruit beneath his kisses.



The world above is dark. The trees are black and bare. Creatures shiver, and shelter where they may.



My lord explores my body, kissing, biting, tasting the length of me. I need to see him. He will not undress. He will not let me touch him. I know that he is beautiful; I can feel that beauty as my body lifts to press itself against him. Naked now, my thighs tremble and open. The fourth seed is eaten.



In the world above, frost traces white patterns on brown leaves. The last of the summer fruit returns to the soil beneath the sleeping trees.



I catch my breath as my dark lord parts my thighs. His fingers touch me, there, gliding on the juices of my passion. His tongue, questing, thirsts for me, tasting me even as I taste the fifth seed upon my tongue.



The world above lies dormant, frozen. A creature caught by the cold, harsh air curls and sleeps, stiffens and dies.



He looks into my eyes, my lord, and slowly unlaces the robe he wears to taunt and tempt me. It falls to the ground. He stands before me, proud manhood beautiful. I long to take him in my mouth, to close my lips around that hot, strong flesh, taste the milky jewel glistening at its tip. He smiles as he puts instead the sixth seed to my lips. He gathers me to him; I twine my legs around his waist and open to his manhood. It thrusts deeper and deeper, taking me further into my dark lord's dark realm. The last seed bursts cool upon my tongue as my lord's seed bursts hot within my body.



The world above lies still as death, waiting for the spring to come. Hollow promise. Who can know how hard that promise is to keep?



I have always loved the taste of pomegranates.

 

[RhymeFairy]

Sorry - I made an add. Its all mine, baby! Why? should it be in a philosophy book?

Just with recent events it makes a lotta sense. I can see it is very well thought out.
A book, yeah why not. *grins* Go for it, maybe ya could come up with more to go with it. *Smiles* I Love Philosophy books, and quote books too. Just keeps me reading ... thinking for hours.



Goofy is me, eh ~

 

[Jennifer C]

Just with recent events it makes a lotta sense. I can see it is very well thought out.
A book, yeah why not. *grins* Go for it, maybe ya could come up with more to go with it. *Smiles* I Love Philosophy books, and quote books too. Just keeps me reading ... thinking for hours.



Goofy is me, eh ~

I'm in for a copy...

 

[CharleyH]

Beautiful and thoughtful. Other than on Lit, I don't recall having read any porn or erotic poetry in my life. Certainly I have rarely read of death and eroticism. Persephone is an appropriate vessel, if you will.

Perhaps I was too young to get it, if I read any?

Thanks Tath. It brings together a thought I had somewhere else ... about death (living) and sex (life).

Who is the poet? What I mean is that I have never heard the poets name before.

Persephone or,

Why the Winters Seem to Be

Getting Longer
by Wendy Froud




Six pomegranate seeds, as red as rubies, like on a golden plate. They glow with crimson fire in the candlelight. My lord bids me eat. I can feel his hands upon my shoulders. I can feel his breath hot upon my neck. I eat the first fruit, and as I taste, my lord tastes the skin of my throat, where the scent of flowers still lingers.



In the world above, the daylight fades. The wind blows cold among the trees.



The second seed is eaten, and my lord kneels at my feet. His hands reach for my breasts, and through the fabric of my gown I feel his caress, first soft, then hard. I watch my nipples rise then strain against the thin gold silk. He takes a small knife away from the table and, holding it delicately, cuts through the neckline of my dress. The fabric tears, parting from white flesh, and falls away.



In the world above, as night draws close, the grasses turn in the wind. Flowers bend. Petals fall.



My nipples are the color of crimson seeds. The third seed is upon my lips as my lord suckles at my breasts, tracing circles of fire with his tongue. They ripen like fruit beneath his kisses.



The world above is dark. The trees are black and bare. Creatures shiver, and shelter where they may.



My lord explores my body, kissing, biting, tasting the length of me. I need to see him. He will not undress. He will not let me touch him. I know that he is beautiful; I can feel that beauty as my body lifts to press itself against him. Naked now, my thighs tremble and open. The fourth seed is eaten.



In the world above, frost traces white patterns on brown leaves. The last of the summer fruit returns to the soil beneath the sleeping trees.



I catch my breath as my dark lord parts my thighs. His fingers touch me, there, gliding on the juices of my passion. His tongue, questing, thirsts for me, tasting me even as I taste the fifth seed upon my tongue.



The world above lies dormant, frozen. A creature caught by the cold, harsh air curls and sleeps, stiffens and dies.



He looks into my eyes, my lord, and slowly unlaces the robe he wears to taunt and tempt me. It falls to the ground. He stands before me, proud manhood beautiful. I long to take him in my mouth, to close my lips around that hot, strong flesh, taste the milky jewel glistening at its tip. He smiles as he puts instead the sixth seed to my lips. He gathers me to him; I twine my legs around his waist and open to his manhood. It thrusts deeper and deeper, taking me further into my dark lord's dark realm. The last seed bursts cool upon my tongue as my lord's seed bursts hot within my body.



The world above lies still as death, waiting for the spring to come. Hollow promise. Who can know how hard that promise is to keep?



I have always loved the taste of pomegranates.

 

[CharleyH]

"CharleyH's Thoughts on Life and Writing"
You know I'd buy a copy. <smile>

I'd give ya one, sexy!

 

[CharleyH]

Just with recent events it makes a lotta sense. I can see it is very well thought out.

Goofy is me, eh ~

LOL - not really thought out, just off the top of my mind, and I have as many constancies as I do contradictions.

Goofy is as joie de vivre.

 

[Tathagata]

Beautiful and thoughtful. Other than on Lit, I don't recall having read any porn or erotic poetry in my life. Certainly I have rarely read of death and eroticism. Persephone is an appropriate vessel, if you will.

Perhaps I was too young to get it, if I read any?

Thanks Tath. It brings together a thought I had somewhere else ... about death (living) and sex (life).

Who is the poet? What I mean is that I have never heard the poets name before.

I was referred to this poem by a poster on the GB who had read my stuff and thought I'd like it
Ha!!

sex and death have been intertwined , if you will, forever.
the climax as the "petit mort' the small death
the japanese feel it is a joining with the gods
( they say I'm going, not , I'm coming)
etc etc

it's a natural combination for me for some reason
i think the music of The Doors was the first time i put it together and since then I've seen it everywhere
but perhaps that's just a trained eye
: )

sex is surrender, as is death
sex, in it's purest form, transcends the ego and melds us with one another
you" become" something other than yourself, hence the death of ego
blah blah blah

who you are dies each time you give yourself over to someone completely
you come back changed.


ya know
shit like that