Long term captivity

[subbie_333]

Yeah, and if you'd bitten through the gag and choked to death, what then? For starters, your "punishment" then turns into at least a manslaughter charge for Master.

This kind of discussion disturbs me on so many levels it's difficult to articulate, and goes against everything I believe any kind of healthy relationship (even one based on BDSM and lived 24/7) should be.

Your mileage, obviously, may vary.

Well, just to play the devil's advocate and to be a bit crazy (cus i is), should people be allowed to live alone? i mean, people living alone can choke on dinner and die. They can fall in the tub and die. They can go into a diabetic coma and die. And, let's extend this to just two people. They are out in the woods having a picnic, he goes behind a tree to take a crap, and, she chokes to death on the apple pie. Or, they are out camping, she goes to the river to wash her hair, and, a bear comes up and kills him.

So, i am not sure that we can condemn a person or society for leaving anybody "alone" (duh, of course i know he tied her up in the situation above). gingermango is free to believe what he believes and live the way he chooses. But, stating that he believes what "any kind of healthy relationship ... should be", is that condemning others' relationships? Sure, opinions vary about what is "healthy", but, if one *truly* believes that something is wrong, shouldn't they step in and do something, even if it just to anonymously call the police?

{ um, do i have to end this post with YMMV? }

 

[subbie_333]

While in captivity
i managed to catch up on much needed sleep

SAMMY

 

[Netzach]

I don't leave bound gagged people alone for the same reason that gun owners are taught to always treat it like it's loaded, but it also has levels of risk. How are they gagged? How are they tied? Who could find them or would if I needed them to?

Also, we're still not 100 percent sure what osg's Daddy did, we have the perspective of a bound mindfucked person on it, and someone I doubt will ever tell her different, and good for him on that.

I've been known to be "gone an hour" myself. The brain does amazing things when you're tied up.

I remember being sure that a chair I was tied into had been lifted up and carried over to a couch and laid on it, once, because I was tied to a chair and the people topping me tilted it back and laid it on the floor. Spatial sense is completely f'd up. I never forgot this little moment of enlightenment when I moved more into tying others.

I'd hate to reduce this lovely moment to "a game" but I think that her Daddy wants her around and has his ways of doing due diligence. I think there's something very exquisite about creating a moment in hell so you can be the ray of light, and it doesn't have the same impact without hell.

That said, it IS generally not a good idea to leave a bound and gagged or hooded person alone, solo bondage/asphyxiation is the biggest accidental killer in the scene, and personally whenever I've done long term restraint I rely on a popular tool among pros. A baby monitor. It can often escape the bottom's notice if you keep them busy enough.

 

[gingermango]

Well, just to play the devil's advocate and to be a bit crazy (cus i is), should people be allowed to live alone? i mean, people living alone can choke on dinner and die. They can fall in the tub and die. They can go into a diabetic coma and die. And, let's extend this to just two people. They are out in the woods having a picnic, he goes behind a tree to take a crap, and, she chokes to death on the apple pie. Or, they are out camping, she goes to the river to wash her hair, and, a bear comes up and kills him.

Those are entirely different scenarios. The one I commented upon involves a person known by the captor to be completely and utterly helpless and solely dependent upon that person (and that person's exercise of good judgment) for their predicament and their eventual release. Your scenarios are not even remotely similar except in the fact of death. In fact, people HAVE bitten through gags, had seizures and choked on tongues etc. (not to mention a slew of more minor injuries while trying to escape from helpless situations). The PYL being totally gone while his subbie is helpless is simply a recipe for disaster in my opinion. It's their time and they can choose how to spend however they want - but when someone ends up dead or brain damaged as a result of asphyxiation while in unmonitored captivity, then the State takes an interest and it gets . . . messy.

So, i am not sure that we can condemn a person or society for leaving anybody "alone" (duh, of course i know he tied her up in the situation above).

And that makes every difference in the world. Don't broaden my comments beyond their initial scope.

gingermango is free to believe what he believes and live the way he chooses. But, stating that he believes what "any kind of healthy relationship ... should be", is that condemning others' relationships? Sure, opinions vary about what is "healthy", but, if one *truly* believes that something is wrong, shouldn't they step in and do something, even if it just to anonymously call the police?

{ um, do i have to end this post with YMMV? }

Of course I condemn (some) relationships, just as I condone others in turn. That's what people do: we judge, categorize and decide. Even piously stating, "I don't judge others . . ." is in fact a judgment of sorts. Choosing not to choose is a choice. I choose to find this kind of mindless submission worrisome and physically dangerous at best. I choose to say so. Big deal. I know not everyone will agree, least of all the person I choose to call out about it. I know it will make no difference to her mindset or what situations she allows herself to be placed into in the future.

But I also know that if some newbie jumps to the end of this thread and thinks that kind of extreme situation is "mainstream kink" (to coin a phrase) or even at all common in the BDSM world, that's a big mistake.

 

[BiBunny]

Dude, I've been left alone, bound, gagged, and blindfolded in a locked house many times while my ex went to work. No biggie. He purposefully bound me so I could get loose if necessary. (It doesn't hurt that both of us have done quite a bit of self-bondage and have become pretty good escape artists; we knew what could be both restrictive and easily gotten out of.)

I say "if necessary." He wanted me to be able to get loose. I mean, if I needed to pee while he was gone for 8, 10, 12 hours a time and was tied to the bed, he damn sure didn't want me to do it on his mattress. Actually, he would tell me that he wanted me to lie there in my bondage until I was ready to get up, and then he'd leave me a list of chores to do while he was gone. I was to tie myself back up like he'd left me (or as close to it as I could get) before he came home.

It wasn't a huge deal. If the house had caught on fire, it wouldn't have taken much for me to have wormed out, though the bondage was pretty restrictive. I loved it and would tease him when he got home about the housework fairy coming to do his laundry while I was all tied up in bed all day right where he left me. *Shrug* It depends mostly on how it's done.

 

[Netzach]

Dude, I've been left alone, bound, gagged, and blindfolded many times while my ex went to work. No biggie. He purposefully bound me so I could get loose if necessary. (It doesn't hurt that both of us have done quite a bit of self-bondage and have become pretty good escape artists; we knew what could be both restrictive and easily gotten out of.)

I say "if necessary." He wanted me to be able to get loose. I mean, if I needed to pee while he was gone for 8, 10, 12 hours a time and was tied to the bed, he damn sure didn't want me to do it on his mattress. Actually, he would tell me that he wanted me to lie there in my bondage until I was ready to get up, and then he'd leave me a list of chores to do while he was gone. I was to tie myself back up like he'd left me (or as close to it as I could get) before he came home.

It wasn't a huge deal. If the house had caught on fire, it wouldn't have taken much for me to have wormed out, though the bondage was pretty restrictive. I loved it and would tease him when he got home about the housework fairy coming to do his laundry while I was all tied up in bed all day. *Shrug*

Yeah, that brings me to my favorite form of bottoming, which is masturbatory, and lets me be the top too. There are ways to minimize risk in self bondage, but with or without risk, it still gets me off.

If other people tie me and I can easily get out though it just makes me mad, stupid as that sounds. If I do it, it's fine. I guess it's the opposite of tickling yourself or something.

 

[subbie_333]

But I also know that if some newbie jumps to the end of this thread and thinks that kind of extreme situation is "mainstream kink" (to coin a phrase) or even at all common in the BDSM world, that's a big mistake.

And, batshit fucking crazy (to quote BiBunny when i think She coined that phrase).

And, Netzach is right in that we don't know what really happened. But, the "story" above was in following with the OP that asked for experiences. i think it would be stupid to assume that one has to always post disclaimers before anything they post on the internet. i'm not a babysitter for the internet. That's a parent's job.

 

[gingermango]

And, batshit fucking crazy (to quote BiBunny when i think She coined that phrase).

And, Netzach is right in that we don't know what really happened. But, the "story" above was in following with the OP that asked for experiences. i think it would be stupid to assume that one has to always post disclaimers before anything they post on the internet. i'm not a babysitter for the internet. That's a parent's job.

A LOT of people come to these forums for information and advice; it's not limited to the How To board. To think otherwise is naive. No one's talking about kids needing babysitters, just people needing to know there are other perspectives out there. Especially since there was a prosecution and conviction in my town within the last year for some consensual bondage gone bad and a college kid ended up dead. Shit most definitely happens.

And for what it's worth, I too have been bound and gagged and left alone - it's fucking hot! But I always know when it happens that Goddess is at least monitoring what's going on (and it does help our situation that she gets off on watching and knowing I am struggling).

 

[BiBunny]

Yeah, that brings me to my favorite form of bottoming, which is masturbatory, and lets me be the top too. There are ways to minimize risk in self bondage, but with or without risk, it still gets me off.

If other people tie me and I can easily get out though it just makes me mad, stupid as that sounds. If I do it, it's fine. I guess it's the opposite of tickling yourself or something.

Holy shit, yes. I'm the one in the movie theater watching some flick where a chick gets abducted going, "You stupid whore, you could get up and walk out of that if you wanted to!"

Damn near anything can be gotten out of with a little ingenuity. I say "damn near" because he who was an escape artist himself could put me into some things that I couldn't even dream of getting out of. I hate when other people don't put that much creativity in it. If I can get loose, what's the freakin' point?

 

[JMohegan]

Er. I think the fact you wouldn't do it to a non-consenting stranger helps.

Do any of you watch Dexter?

Who's Dexter? A guy on TV? For the most part, I'm culturally ignorant when it comes to that medium.

 

[JMohegan]

While in captivity
i managed to catch up on much needed sleep

Chuckling here.

Where and how were you confined?

 

[Netzach]

A LOT of people come to these forums for information and advice; it's not limited to the How To board. To think otherwise is naive. No one's talking about kids needing babysitters, just people needing to know there are other perspectives out there. Especially since there was a prosecution and conviction in my town within the last year for some consensual bondage gone bad and a college kid ended up dead. Shit most definitely happens.

And for what it's worth, I too have been bound and gagged and left alone - it's fucking hot! But I always know when it happens that Goddess is at least monitoring what's going on (and it does help our situation that she gets off on watching and knowing I am struggling).

I don't intend to put a disclaimer up every time I want to talk about what makes me hot.

There are always going to be people who take no responsibility for their safety. The info is out there.

I don't intend to spend time making sure everyone else has their safety belt on every time I post a car photo. I don't mean to bust your nuts especially, I just really hate when edgeplayers are made to feel like they somehow have this extra burden of responsibility to make sure everyone else is ok - if you're playing the edges and doing it in an educated way and you took the time to educate yourself and *did the work* to educate yourself, why are YOU more responsible for everyone else?

 

[FurryFury]

Who's Dexter? A guy on TV? For the most part, I'm culturally ignorant when it comes to that medium.

Yes a TV show and character. There are also novels based on Dexter. The show started out on some pay channel but this year moved to a regular channel.

Dexter enjoys hurting and killing people. His adoptive father, a cop taught him to only do so to those who are "bad" but won't likely be caught and punished by the system.

Meanwhile he tried to fake having normal emotions and relationships with co-workers (he is a blood splatter expert), his adoptive sister, girlfriend and her children.

 

[JMohegan]

just curious, but in the scenario you mentioned with locking an ex-gf in a frathouse, what was the primary purpose of the experience? was it a punishment for her, fulfillment of a perversion for you, what?

The sole purpose was my personal erotic entertainment.

i ask because i think this idea can be very effectively used as punishment or a disciplinary tool. my first major punishment, my Master beat me, bound me, beat me some more, then surprised and scared the snot outta me by just leaving me alone like that for a while. we were in a hotel room, i was hogtied, gagged with a butt plug and blindfolded on the middle of the bed. and i hear the door opening and closing, and his footsteps walking away. at first i waited, thinking he was just messing with my mind and would be right back. then after a few minutes i thought he was just giving me some time to think about what i had done, meditate on how to avoid ever doing such a thing again, etc. then after maybe 20 minutes i basically flipped the heck out, positive that he was never going to come back and that the maid would find my body in the morning. i tried to spit out the gag (it just lodged itself in deeper), i struggled against the bonds, i tried to scream. then after a few minutes of that, the despair sunk in. yep, he definitely wasn't coming back, i had really flocked up and my sin was not forgiveable. i was going to die there and never see him or anyone else again. the tears fell. then they dried up, i became almost calm. accepting of my fate. ready to die. confident that i deserved such a fate, feeling very understanding of my Master and why he had to dump me. i thought, at least he allowed me to experience some joy in life, and know what it was like to be truly loved. then all of a sudden it was like a switch flipped in my brain, and i started struggling like crazy again. then again the despair and acceptance.

and then he did the thing i least expected at that point...He came back. untied me, took the gag out, took off the blindfold, and just held me for a bit. He asked if i had anything to say, and immediately i said "i'm sorry Daddy," then started crying and he held me some more. He forgave me, and then told me to eat. He had brought a yummy meal for me back with him, that's what he'd been out doing. and how long had he be gone, putting me through such hell on earth, such a whirlwind of crazy emotions? an hour and a half, tops. suffice to say, that was one lesson thoroughly learned and a mistake never repeated.

Thanks for taking the time to write this out, osg. The pattern of your emotional response seems similar to the experience of my captives - albeit on a different intensity level.

 

[JMohegan]

Yes a TV show and character. There are also novels based on Dexter. The show started out on some pay channel but this year moved to a regular channel.

Dexter enjoys hurting and killing people. His adoptive father, a cop taught him to only do so to those who are "bad" but won't likely be caught and punished by the system.

Meanwhile he tried to fake having normal emotions and relationships with co-workers (he is a blood splatter expert), his adoptive sister, girlfriend and her children.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the answer, Fury.

 

[subbie_333]

Yes a TV show and character. There are also novels based on Dexter. The show started out on some pay channel but this year moved to a regular channel.

Dexter enjoys hurting and killing people. His adoptive father, a cop taught him to only do so to those who are "bad" but won't likely be caught and punished by the system.

Meanwhile he tried to fake having normal emotions and relationships with co-workers (he is a blood splatter expert), his adoptive sister, girlfriend and her children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter_(TV_series)

hhhmmm This is evil. We need to burn all the Dexter books in the entire world, and, we need to boycott Showtime and CBS. It promotes murder, dysfunctional relationships, comic books, drug use, kidnapping, pyromania, video games, and, your everyday clinical insanity. All of the actors in the series should be prosecuted for their crimes.

huh? what?

You say that this is fiction? Oh, well, never mind.

 

[ownedsubgal]

The sole purpose was my personal erotic entertainment.

now see that's just plain mean. You have more than a touch of the evil sadist in you huh?

 

[ownedsubgal]

Holy shit, yes. I'm the one in the movie theater watching some flick where a chick gets abducted going, "You stupid whore, you could get up and walk out of that if you wanted to!"

Damn near anything can be gotten out of with a little ingenuity. I say "damn near" because he who was an escape artist himself could put me into some things that I couldn't even dream of getting out of. I hate when other people don't put that much creativity in it. If I can get loose, what's the freakin' point?

i feel you there. unless the bondage itself is just your kink, i don't understand the point of being bound in a manner which would allow me to easily free myself. bondage is basically a nightmare for me, it brings back a lot of bad old memories and when i'm seriously trussed up for more than a few minutes there's a high likelihood of me freaking out. and if i'm left alone, it's 100% guaranteed i will flip. my childhood abuser would bind me and then leave me alone for long periods...Daddy knew this about my past, maybe it had something to do with why he chose that particular punishment.

also Netz was right on point when she said: there's something very exquisite about creating a moment in hell so you can be the ray of light, and it doesn't have the same impact without hell. as terrified and untrusting of Daddy as i was when he left me, when he came back he became my Savior, it was like god him/itself had forgiven me and decided to give me another chance. it was a very spiritual moment, as hard as that can be for some to fathom.

as for whether he was truly far away all that time or not, i suppose i'll never know. He did order and pick up take-out, that would take up maybe 40 minutes. the rest of the time he could have been driving around, hanging out in the hotel lobby, or right outside the door in his socks (not likely but throwing in all possibilities here lol), listening to my suffering like JMohegan or Holmes.

 

[BiBunny]

I don't intend to put a disclaimer up every time I want to talk about what makes me hot.

There are always going to be people who take no responsibility for their safety. The info is out there.

I don't intend to spend time making sure everyone else has their safety belt on every time I post a car photo. I don't mean to bust your nuts especially, I just really hate when edgeplayers are made to feel like they somehow have this extra burden of responsibility to make sure everyone else is ok - if you're playing the edges and doing it in an educated way and you took the time to educate yourself and *did the work* to educate yourself, why are YOU more responsible for everyone else?

OMG, my well-known love for you has just increased tenfold.

Yes, I do things that aren't entirely safe or sane, but I've learned how to minimize the risks, for the most part. I and I alone am responsible for my own well-being. If you want to do something edgy, then great. Learn how. If you're too lazy or stupid to do the research and the legwork, then at some point it becomes a sort of Darwin Award thing. Thank you for removing your ignorant ass from the gene pool.

I'm fighting the urge to go start another thread at this point.

 

[gingermango]

I don't intend to spend time making sure everyone else has their safety belt on every time I post a car photo. I don't mean to bust your nuts especially, I just really hate when edgeplayers are made to feel like they somehow have this extra burden of responsibility to make sure everyone else is ok - if you're playing the edges and doing it in an educated way and you took the time to educate yourself and *did the work* to educate yourself, why are YOU more responsible for everyone else?

I understand what you're saying. I really do. As I tried to put it in my first substantial response to this thread today, the post I quoted by OSG disturbed me and it did so in ways (plural, actually) that were hard to articulate. In retrospect, it's not the edge play itself ($DEITY knows I've tried and done some stuff that skirts some established "rules" myself) - it's the whole tenor and tone of that post and the mindset that says it's basically okay to die as part of some domestic punishment scenario performed as part of a BDSM lifestyle. I don't know how much of that post is dramatic license and how much is honest belief in the idea of complete absolution of one's very existence into the hands of another.

If the former, well. Big deal I guess - wow, someone exaggerating on the internet? Welcome to 1993. If the former, then that's an idea that even I as a lifetime submissive/bottom/humiliation whore just cannot wrap my head around in any way. And that's the last I will say in this thread about that kind of scenario.

 

[subbie_333]

I'm fighting the urge to go start another thread at this point.

Oh, don't fight it. Start the thread and let everybody else fight, blood and all. You could even title it "Blood - too edgy?"

 

[JMohegan]

now see that's just plain mean. You have more than a touch of the evil sadist in you huh?

Flatterer!


On a serious note - yes. I do, though not as much as some. Compared to a lot of people, I'm practically vanilla.

 

[subbie_333]

... it's the whole tenor and tone of that post and the mindset that says it's basically okay to die as part of some domestic punishment scenario performed as part of a BDSM lifestyle. I don't know how much of that post is dramatic license and how much is honest belief in the idea of complete absolution of one's very existence into the hands of another.

i enjoyed reading what she thought and her thought process. Doesn't matter if it was fiction or not. Either way, it goes back to the OP. Mindfuck is a great tool. i do it to myself all the time. Or, is it that myself does it to i all the time? Oh shit, now i'm scared.

 

[BiBunny]

You know what? I know OSG doesn't need me to speak for her because she does just fine with that herself, but I just have to say this anyway. It's really something I've been holding in on this board for a long time.

If she's happy and her Daddy's happy, then what does it matter to anyone else? I mean, the kind of relationship she's in wouldn't make me happy, but it's not MY relationship, is it?

I dunno. People who like to throw their own rules around worry me. If they're you're rules, then, fine, they're your rules. That doesn't make 'em everybody else's rules. Like I was telling NH the other day, I can remember several times when my ex and I were playing really hard and edgy, and he got this look in his eyes that made me just KNOW he was going to kill me.

And you know what? I didn't care. I didn't fucking care. Damn the legality and the consequences and whatever else. If that's what he wanted, then that's what I wanted him to do. If my dead body would've gotten him off, then I couldn't wait to be a corpse. I know I've made a lot of posts about my ex lately, but I see that the relationship we had was obviously something outside the bounds of what most people consider "ok." I am only just now realizing it, and it baffles me.

Homburg and I were talking the other day. He said to me, "You'd have given [xxx] a Viking funeral and jumped on the burning ship to go down with him." Yes, dammit. I would have. Maybe there's a kind of stupidity or even insanity in that kind of devotion, but it made me happy. What's the problem, then?

 

[ownedsubgal]

You know what? I know OSG doesn't need me to speak for her because she does just fine with that herself, but I just have to say this anyway. It's really something I've been holding in on this board for a long time.

If she's happy and her Daddy's happy, then what does it matter to anyone else? I mean, the kind of relationship she's in wouldn't make me happy, but it's not MY relationship, is it?

I dunno. People who like to throw their own rules around worry me. If they're you're rules, then, fine, they're your rules. That doesn't make 'em everybody else's rules. Like I was telling NH the other day, I can remember several times when my ex and I were playing really hard and edgy, and he got this look in his eyes that made me just KNOW he was going to kill me.

And you know what? I didn't care. I didn't fucking care. Damn the legality and the consequences and whatever else. If that's what he wanted, then that's what I wanted him to do. If my dead body would've gotten him off, then I couldn't wait to be a corpse. I know I've made a lot of posts about my ex lately, but I see that the relationship we had was obviously something outside the bounds of what most people consider "ok." I am only just now realizing it, and it baffles me.

Homburg and I were talking the other day. He said to me, "You'd have given [xxx] a Viking funeral and jumped on the burning ship to go down with him." Yes, dammit. I would have. Maybe there's a kind of stupidity or even insanity in that kind of devotion, but it made me happy. What's the problem, then?

the problem Bunny, comes in when you express that devotion...that total absorption into the will of another...to others who could never hope to understand such a thing, and you express it without shame or apology. bad, bad girl.

(and thanks for understanding, btw)