Long term captivity

[JMohegan]

Agreed, for the most part, in that as long as you're not hurting anyone else, I don't really give a shit. But I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, that seems unhealthy to me, aside from the fact that it's sort of obvious in some respects (sorry, but who hasn't read an osg post and said WTF at one point - I'm just being honest). So I think it's unhealthy.

I couldn't possibly count the number of times I've heard the charge "unhealthy" in the following context.

Discussions between a partner of mine and a family member or close friend reveal that a standing rule of mine prohibits covering the neck. No high sweaters, scarves, heavy jewelry, etc. The initial reaction invariably boils down to: It's unhealthy to let a man control the way you dress.

And my response has always been: I'll heed your charge of "unhealthy" relations - but only if & when the behavior has a material and sustained negative effect on her ability to thrive.

Failure to thrive may be an amorphous construct, but you sort of know it when you see it.

Take that response and apply it to all relationships, of any flavor, and you've got my point of view.

 

[Netzach]

There are some people who don't want to thrive and who aren't healthy and aren't going to be.

Is the right to be in a dark and fucked up place off the table? I mean to choose it, Leaving Las Vegas style if you choose it - isn't that a kind of agency?

 

[Netzach]

I couldn't possibly count the number of times I've heard the charge "unhealthy" in the following context.

Discussions between a partner of mine and a family member or close friend reveal that a standing rule of mine prohibits covering the neck. No high sweaters, scarves, heavy jewelry, etc. The initial reaction invariably boils down to: It's unhealthy to let a man control the way you dress.

And my response has always been: I'll heed your charge of "unhealthy" relations - but only if & when the behavior has a material and sustained negative effect on her ability to thrive.

Failure to thrive may be an amorphous construct, but you sort of know it when you see it.

Take that response and apply it to all relationships, of any flavor, and you've got my point of view.

OOC, what's her response normally been?

 

[TerragonSix]

There are some people who don't want to thrive and who aren't healthy and aren't going to be.

Is the right to be in a dark and fucked up place off the table? I mean to choose it, Leaving Las Vegas style if you choose it - isn't that a kind of agency?

People have a right to do whatever they want, short of hurting others in a bad way.

To some who hold a higher ethics code, what you may be doing with your life isn't right... But it's your life, and the way you choose to live it is up to you.

That's just a basic human nature.

 

[intothewoods]

I'm a psycho sadist. I get guilty-wet reading not about the beatings and the electrocutions of political prisoners but about the desperation, the writing on sheets, the drawing on walls, the terrified and defiant hours confined.

*shudder* Those are the things that horrified me the most when studying that stuff in school.

Bondage+cracking ego = perfect.

I'm also really REALLY fascinated by the "good cop" interrogation style. Befriending and betraying. Isn't that the worst of all?

Lol. Note to self: do not underestimate Netzach.

I couldn't possibly count the number of times I've heard the charge "unhealthy" in the following context.

Discussions between a partner of mine and a family member or close friend reveal that a standing rule of mine prohibits covering the neck. No high sweaters, scarves, heavy jewelry, etc. The initial reaction invariably boils down to: It's unhealthy to let a man control the way you dress.

And my response has always been: I'll heed your charge of "unhealthy" relations - but only if & when the behavior has a material and sustained negative effect on her ability to thrive.

Failure to thrive may be an amorphous construct, but you sort of know it when you see it.

Take that response and apply it to all relationships, of any flavor, and you've got my point of view.

Oy vey. That's political correctness talking. There's not all that much difference between that and my request that Mister Man keep his hair short and not wear pleated pants. again. ever. (Aside from the "request" part)

Actually, I'm glad you articulated the "if and when the behavior as a material and sustained negative effect on her ability to thrive" part, because that's the reason I don't get too wound up in what anyone posts around here. How the hell do I know if osg or anyone else here is thriving. I only have posts to go on. I do not *know* anyone here in real life.

 

[JMohegan]

But see, for some this is not seen as a problem, at least not in the way you see it, for some it could be seen as being highly successful and achieving the ultimate. It is subjective to what a person wants, needs, feels, and how that plays out in their journey. As to fair and unfair, one thing F reminds me of constantly is it isn't about being fair....sometimes that works for me, sometimes it doesn't...end result is still the same as he is the one who decides what will be and work, and what I understood before getting myself into a TPE relationship.

Catalina

My observation of people who are happy & thriving in specific relationships is that they are deeply unhappy when those relationships end.

But of course, I have not observed everyone!

There may be some who consider permanent abandonment to be "achieving the ultimate." When it comes to human behavior, there really are no absolutes.

 

[JMohegan]

There are some people who don't want to thrive and who aren't healthy and aren't going to be.

Is the right to be in a dark and fucked up place off the table? I mean to choose it, Leaving Las Vegas style if you choose it - isn't that a kind of agency?

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Haven't seen the film, but I'd say it depends on the reason for the choosing.

 

[Etoile]

C'mon guys, not all necros use REAL dead bodies. If somebody wanted to have sex with a dead person or whatever, there are ways to enjoy it that don't involve actual human death.

 

[JMohegan]

OOC, what's her response normally been?

Something like: "If you knew how it feels to be me, sitting across a crowded room from this man as he stares at my neck with That Look in his eyes, you'd understand."

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

Temporary destruction of trust is what SM is all about for me.

As far as the time limit goes. That'd be the whole point. A game of chicken to see who opts out first.

So "temporary destruction of trust" i see.

As much as i like the long term captivity idea, i still think once the trust is destructed it doesnt mean it will be renoved. I agree with graice, it coul bite you in the ass. As even slaves are just human with feelings. lol

 

[Marquis]

There's no rush I like better than seeing my victim go through the mental process of:

"This guy that I love and trust, is it possible that underneath all this he's really just a fucking psycho with no concern for my safety and wellbeing?

Oh fuck, it's definitely possible."

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

There's no rush I like better than seeing my victim go through the mental process of:

"This guy that I love and trust, is it possible that underneath all this he's really just a fucking psycho with no concern for my safety and wellbeing?

Oh fuck, it's definitely possible."

You know whats funny? That even if you made me feel like i mean totaly shit to you, hurt my feelings, made me cry like a lil child, make me wonder if I ever meant fuckin somethin to you, make me curse at you, make me wanna kick you in the balls, God you could take me thro the hell - nothing would change my love for you. You could do impossible to break me, you could even break my heart while this fucked up game - I would still purr in your presence and keep loving you with all my heart. You could treat me like shit, i would still stay.

I dont get it, but its the way I am. Knowing that pisses me off sometimes lol. Devotion is fucked up thing! Very satisfying for the Dom's i guess - bittersweet for the submissive, sometimes.

 

[Marquis]

You know whats funny? That even if you made me feel like i mean totaly shit to you, hurt my feelings, made me cry like a lil child, make me wonder if I ever meant fuckin somethin to you, make me curse at you, make me wanna kick you in the balls, God you could take me thro the hell - nothing would change my love for you. You could do impossible to break me, you could even break my heart while this fucked up game - I would still purr in your presence and keep loving you with all my heart. You could treat me like shit, i would still stay.

I dont get it, but its the way I am. Knowing that pisses me off sometimes lol. Devotion is fucked up thing! Very satisfying for the Dom's i guess - bittersweet for the submissive, sometimes.

My own subs have expressed similar sentiments.

Just a thought:

It can be bittersweet for the Doms as well. That kind of power comes with a lot of responsibility.

 

[intothewoods]

Something like: "If you knew how it feels to be me, sitting across a crowded room from this man as he stares at my neck with That Look in his eyes, you'd understand."

Very romantic.

C'mon guys, not all necros use REAL dead bodies. If somebody wanted to have sex with a dead person or whatever, there are ways to enjoy it that don't involve actual human death.

Lol, Etoile. Sometimes I don't know if you're kidding or serious!

 

[FurryFury]

So he's portrayed as an extreme version of an honorable vigilante? Like spiderman, with blood?

To my way of thinking he is presented as an extremely disturbing guy who has been artificially pressed into the vigilante mode but who could break out of it at any time and become a menace to anyone in society.



And on the other main focus in this thread lately, I don't care what two or more, consenting adults do.

 

[cherokee_dove]

Captivity is hot, I agree. I've never done this long-term, just roughly 24 hours max.

Key elements of my kidnapped sex slave fantasy are the victim's terror, and desperation transforming horrified refusal into wretched "consent." Eliciting proximate responses from an established girlfriend is always a challenge, of course. In this context, a location that genuinely freaks her out always helped me advance the ball.

For example, as a grad student I once borrowed an undergraduate buddy's key and locked my girlfriend du jour in the rec room of a frat house basement. (The boys, at an away game, were out of town.)

Stench of urine and stale beer. Trash everywhere. Drywall punched in at multiple spots, clearly from drunken exertions. Cockroaches in the corner. Giant stains on the only pieces of furniture in the room - a ratty pool table and a filthy couch. Fear that the animals who created this mess could return at any time, and whatnot. Perfect! The idea is that each minute feels like an hour in such a spot.

In addition to the obvious, there are a couple of things I find uniquely entertaining about this type of scenario. First, women confined in solitary, stressful conditions tend to talk to themselves, out loud. The audio show is usually extremely satisfying (from a sadist's perspective), and can be enjoyed simply by relaxing on the other side of the door.

Second, it's remarkable how much easier it is to push limits in this type of environment. Consensual extortion, though it sounds oxymoronic, can be highly effective and a whole helluva lot of fun.

People for whom lying and/or elaborate mindfucks are not out of bounds can take this a lot farther than I ever could. I'd say the most effective tools in my case are creative use of physical environments, and surprise.

Just read through this whole thread, and JM; that is OMG hot!!!


As to osg's or any other sub/slaves wants, needs, and feelings; its THEIR personal choices; not anyone else's except their PYL's. If someone needs to look death in the face as part of who they are, and what they need to be happy; who are we to judge?

We are a forum of friends to talk to about our ways, not be ridiculed by them.

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

My own subs have expressed similar sentiments.

Just a thought:

It can be bittersweet for the Doms as well. That kind of power comes with a lot of responsibility.

Yea i think you are right.

 

[BiBunny]

From my perspective, this attitude might be construed as devotion to the part of me I refer to as my inner sadist. However, it would definitely be construed as gross dereliction with respect to me, the total man.



Speaking not about your situation, but in general here, I'll describe one problem that may arise.

When a woman lets a man do whatever he desires to her, with no effort to rein him in and no perceptible checks or restraints relating to her welfare or needs, his celebration of her willingness to do so sometimes reaches a point at which it transforms into a lack of respect for her willingness to do so.

And when that point is reached, it is often just a matter of time before the woman is discarded like yesterday's trash.

This may seem unfair, and it surely is. This may seem like a risk that applies solely to vanilla relationships, but it is not.

Perhaps that wasn't aimed at me, as you claim, but it damn sure felt like it. Thank you ever so much.

And I agree with all that Cat and Netz have posted in this thread. Some of us do get off on the fucked-up parts of it. That is all.

 

[ultramarineblue]

As inexperienced as I may be, I completely get the feeling of doing whatever your PYL demands, even to the detriment of yourself. It sure scares the hell out of me but all I can do is trust that he will realize that responsibility that goes with that willingness and not tire or me and throw me away. It effing sucks to be to be the one thrown away because you're so willing to please. It makes you feel less than a person. But when you find a person that recognizes and desires that gift, it makes all the difference in the world.

I think if the PYL realizes that responsibility, the feeling of power isn't necessarily what he is after. I'm sure for some that is what they are after and that is when they lose interest in the pyl after a time because the power becomes stagnant for them after such willingness. However, if that isn't what they are after, I think the feelings just intensify and grow. I think as long as awareness and communication are there, things become fluid and grow as needs change.

I for one, am glad to hear the varying, opposing, and even extreme (to some) viewpoints. Each viewpoint will resonate with someone or at the very least, cause someone to think or even reconsider their own viewpoint. I, for one, never want to stop learning or growing.

/off soapbox

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I've been away for a few days and haven't read through the whole thread so apologies.

Master and I have done this and three notable occasions spring to mind, first for just a few hours (although I had no idea how long it was going to be for at the time), then for a day and more recently, for a weekend. Our house has a small cellar that he usually uses for playing his guitar with an amplifier and doing his weights. It's therefore a very masculine space and not one I venture into often.

Master procured a large dog transportation cage and stowed it in the cellar. He put fixings on the wall and low ceiling that I could be attached to. He stole a single bedframe from a skip and bolted it to a wall as a kind of makeshift St Andrew's Cross. (We can't use electrical play because I'm epileptic but that would have been a fun notion.)

Although the idea had been discussed between us, I wasn't given prior warning as to when it would happen and each time I had no idea how long my captivity would last - beyond knowing when the real world would require an appearance so as not to call the police.

The first time, we were snuggled on the couch and Master offered to go and pour us both a drink, which made me feel safe and like I was in line for being spoiled that evening. He told me to stand up and close my eyes. On his return, he shoved me so I went flying across the sofa, dragged and pinned me to the floor and then bound my wrists and put a blindfold and soundproof-ish headgear on me (purloined as he passed a building site, resourceful bastard) before mandhandling me down to the cellar.

The premise was simple, there's a cute and eminently corruptible 19 year old lad (who I'll call P) who lives on our street and he has something of a crush on me. He is also under the misguided (but entirely reasonable under the circumstances) notion that my SO is a bastard who oppresses and abuses me. We live in a 2 up, 2 down Victorian terrace and the neighbours unfortunately hear quite a bit, and vice versa.

Anyway, Master starts with the notion that I've been flirting with and encouraging P while allowing him to think that Master is an asshole. He interrogates and tortures me into admitting every word that has passed between us over the garden fence in the last few months. Every thought I've ever had about the guy. He gets me to admit that P is young and conventionally attractive, better looking than my overweight Master, who is big, bad and bald with broad shoulders (my kinda mean). Then he punishes me for the admission. He humiliates me by telling me exactly what P would think of me if he knew what a nasty, deviant little painwhore I am. This went on for some 4 hours with hardly any breaks and at all times I was blindfolded. If he left the room to fetch himself a drink or something, he put the cans back on my ears and left me to panic. I never saw the the additions to the cellar, that was reserved for my weekend long visit. The night ended with some brutal dry anal, during which Master demanded that I imagine it was P fucking me and describe in detail what I was thinking. I was also desperate for the toilet by this time but he swore that if I lost control and urinated before he was done with me, he'd make me drink a bowl of his piss. I know he wouldn't because he knows how that would affect me but by this stage, he could have threatened to slit my throat and fuck it and I would have believed him.

The next session lasted a day and took place in the bedroom. He bound, blinded and deafened me and left me secured to the bed when I wasn't in use. That was very intense. He fed me minimal amounts of food and water by hand, which I was forced to beg and perform tasks for. The same for visits to the toilet (which I was forced to manage while still blindfolded) and anything else I required. He teased me and asked me to lay a bet on how long it would take before people noticed I was missing, how many days he could get away with keeping me there as bound fuckmeat. He had a friend over and played computer games downstairs while I lay there, unable to see or hear and bound at the wrists and ankles. Th first sign I had that he had returned to the room was a sudden pinch, slap, pain or manhandling. On one occasion he simply put his hand over my mouth and nose. He told his friend I had a migraine and that I would shout if I needed anything so I wasn't unable to summon him if I needed to. I was under advisement though, that if I interrupted his day without a damn good excuse, he'd make me regret it. It was all very intense and really brought out his inner bastard.

I'll write about the weekend in a bit, stay tuned.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Ok, the weekend.

This was so elaborately planned. I was going to keep it to myself as a little mental treasure but what Marquis wants, Marquis gets.

I went to meet Master from work. I don't always do this but we had been chatting on msn and he said it would be nice to walk back with me. I go to his office, which has a carpark and staff entrance around the back, where I usually wait for him. He sends a text saying that he's got to stay behind for a little while and I should wait for him to leave. I sit on a low wall circumnavigating the parking area and wait. All the lights begin to go out, including the ones in the car park and I can see Master's outline walking down the stairwell, checking each floor and killing lights as he goes.

Tape goes over my mouth and I'm yanked off the wall, a blade presses against my throat and I'm told not to scream, a hood goes over my head. I'm then marched to a car and roughly guided into the boot where my hands and feet are bound with tape. Master doesn't drive.

The car drives for a long time (unbeknown to me, in circles) and then pulls up. I'm lifted and carried inside and placed on what feels like a sofa. The door closes and I'm lifted again and taken down some stairs. 'A cellar!' I think. 'Maybe it's just Master springing an elaborate mindfuck?'

Then I'm placed in the cage and as far as I know, Master doesn't own one. 'Where the fuck am I?' I'm left there for about half an hour (while he ate, it transpires) but it feels like ages. I'm cramped, cold, disoriented and scared shitless. He comes back and the cage is opened. He drags me to the bedframe and pins me against it, cuts the tape off my wrists and secures them to the frame, same with my legs. I'm facing the wall when the hood comes off. I start trying to reason with him, tell him my boyfriend knew I was there and will be looking for me. He slaps the tape back on my mouth, saying nothing.

He cuts off my clothes and touches me between my legs (dry as a bone, thank fuck), then I hear his zipper descend and I literally start shaking from head to foot, violently and uncontrollably, something I've never done before. Master then held my collar in front of me, so I could recognise it. He put it around my neck and I was so relieved, I burst into tears.

It was the most amazing time. The terror he'd forced me to experience made everything that followed electric and life affirming, everything was in an adrenaline charged hyperdrive and we had some of the best sex in the history of mankind. I'm glad he owned up to who he was when he did though, I couldn't have dealt with it if he had continued.

I was in that cellar for 2 nights and 2 days, sometimes blindfolded and deaf, sometimes left chained to something or caged, sometimes escorted to the toilet, sometimes forced to pee in a bucket, sometimes left in darkness, sometimes with the light on. He was so capricious and unpredictable that there is almost nothing he couldn't have coerced me into, a notion that worries us both in retrospect. He tortured me over P again, tortured me into falsely confessing that I had imagined it was P who abducted me when I had no idea who it was and P never entered my head. Then he punished me for my disloyalty. He turned the light on and off and had me sleep at odd times and for short periods so that I didn't know if it was day or night. He even put my meds in my food and fed me small amounts at erratic intervals, so I couldn't keep track from the dosage times. He set tasks I couldn't accomplish, laughed at me while I tried and then punished me for failing. He told me he had invited another woman around and then later went up 2 floors to the bedroom and played porn while I listened, desperate to know if he was shitting me or not. He did everything he could think of and had me serve him every which way when he wasn't tormenting me.

It sounds ridiculous and probably bizarre but this really brought us closer together. There was so much trust involved and I interacted with nobody except him for all that time (and what with the weird sleep times it felt like much longer). The fact that I lived through it, came out unscathed and not psychologically damaged has convinced me that it's something I'd love to happen again, when he wants it to.

We also had a lengthy debrief on the Sunday evening and he cooked for me and spoiled me rotten. I couldn't think of anything that I wouldn't ever want to happen again but plenty of things I'd love for him to try.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Temporary destruction of trust is what SM is all about for me.

There's no rush I like better than seeing my victim go through the mental process of:

"This guy that I love and trust, is it possible that underneath all this he's really just a fucking psycho with no concern for my safety and wellbeing?

Oh fuck, it's definitely possible."

You and Master are very alike.

Ooh, this is a fun thread, lots of little gems. I also applaud Netz's post about writing disclaimers when posting on edgy, kinky shit. If you're going to get in the pool, you better learn how to swim. If you're going to go white water rafting, you need equipment and training. If you fling yourself of niagra falls in a barrel, you're either monumentally retarded or Bunny's latest Master has died and she can't go on any more.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I think there's something very exquisite about creating a moment in hell so you can be the ray of light, and it doesn't have the same impact without hell.

Beautifully put and very true.

 

[SouthernDom]

Long term captivity scenes are hawt as fuck in fantasy, but In reality...............I couldn't see myself keeping this up for more than my normal waking hours for one day at a time.

Once I am sated, all the juice drained and my balls swinging low..............I'm pretty much done until I have a few hours of deep, coma-like sleep.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

When a woman lets a man do whatever he desires to her, with no effort to rein him in and no perceptible checks or restraints relating to her welfare or needs, his celebration of her willingness to do so sometimes reaches a point at which it transforms into a lack of respect for her willingness to do so.

This point, for us, is generally where the fun begins. The interplay of the two sides of this coin always make for some serious sessions with us.