Long term captivity

[SouthernDom]

When a woman lets a man do whatever he desires to her, with no effort to rein him in and no perceptible checks or restraints relating to her welfare or needs, his celebration of her willingness to do so sometimes reaches a point at which it transforms into a lack of respect for her willingness to do so.

And when that point is reached, it is often just a matter of time before the woman is discarded like yesterday's trash.

This may seem unfair, and it surely is. This may seem like a risk that applies solely to vanilla relationships, but it is not.

Good insight...........

Many times a Dom doesn't want a broken mare that can make for a lackluster ride. There's a certain allure to cutting a wild filly from the herd and bending her will to be your's ...............without breaking her spirit.

 

[Homburg]

It sounds ridiculous and probably bizarre but this really brought us closer together. There was so much trust involved and I interacted with nobody except him for all that time (and what with the weird sleep times it felt like much longer). The fact that I lived through it, came out unscathed and not psychologically damaged has convinced me that it's something I'd love to happen again, when he wants it to.

The way you describe this makes it hot. I can see doing this. Prior, plain captivity seemed boring. Fucking with sleep schedules, food, and the like makes it more interesting.

I'm not one to do slow suffering. I can't put a gal on a horse and let her whine and squirm for hours. I get bored and have to mess with the situation. This is more active. Good show.

 

[Homburg]

Good insight...........

Many times a Dom doesn't want a broken mare that can make for a lackluster ride. There's a certain allure to cutting a wild filly from the herd and bending her will to be your's ...............without breaking her spirit.

Why does a lack of restraints and limits mean broken? Lackluster? Do what? The specific person he was responding to, Bibunny, is anything but a broken mare and lackluster as an individual, both here on the boards and in person. Most of the no-limits folk I've dealt with were anything but broken and lackluster.

 

[Netzach]

This point, for us, is generally where the fun begins. The interplay of the two sides of this coin always make for some serious sessions with us.

Yes. The "I love you and enjoy you, and now I've made you something so disgusting you're laughable, and I'm so sick I probably WILL respect you in the morning again" tension is the whole point, for me, in the relationship I have with H, why it's not something that marriage nor fucking can begin to approach and it's entirely its own itch to scratch.

 

[JMohegan]

Perhaps that wasn't aimed at me, as you claim, but it damn sure felt like it. Thank you ever so much.

And I agree with all that Cat and Netz have posted in this thread. Some of us do get off on the fucked-up parts of it. That is all.

I understand how & why risk makes many things more exciting.


The playground monitor at my elementary school was a real pain in my ass. She did not understand boy energy, or boy "combat", or competitive physical drive. Her favorite thing to say (shriek, rather) was: "It's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt!" - followed by a command to cease whatever it was we were doing.

On the day that I leaped off the top of the monkey bars and my left foot landed on rock, resulting in an awkward fall and bad break in my leg, her first and last words to me were: "I told you so."

When my leg healed, and the cast came off, I went right back to jumping off monkey bars (though I did usually glance down & check for a smooth landing spot.)



Bunny, you asked a question about potential problems with one flavor of devotion, and I answered it. My intent was not to say: "Bunny, you're fucked up for jumping off monkey bars!" Instead, I was saying something like: "It sucks when there are rocks."

 

[SouthernDom]

Why does a lack of restraints and limits mean broken? Lackluster? Do what? The specific person he was responding to, Bibunny, is anything but a broken mare and lackluster as an individual, both here on the boards and in person. Most of the no-limits folk I've dealt with were anything but broken and lackluster.

I didn't read between the lines before I posted, therefore I didn't see who the quoted post in my reply was aimed toward. My post is not aimed at anyone here.

My post is just a glimpse into what makes me tick. My personal tastes still revolve around the mystery of seduction and edging the line of previously setforth hard limits. Without something to look forward too that I have to work for...........I get bored down the line.

If everything is available to me at all times with zero resistance on my sub's part...............It loses part of It's kink value for me personally.

Of course..........YMMV.

 

[intothewoods]

The playground monitor at my elementary school was a real pain in my ass. She did not understand boy energy, or boy "combat", or competitive physical drive. Her favorite thing to say (shriek, rather) was: "It's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt!" - followed by a command to cease whatever it was we were doing.

No, no, no. People always get this one wrong.

It's all fun and games until someone pokes their eye out.

And then it's just a game: find the eye.



Bwah hahahaha.

My son is screwed. Isn't he?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Good insight...........

Many times a Dom doesn't want a broken mare that can make for a lackluster ride. There's a certain allure to cutting a wild filly from the herd and bending her will to be your's ...............without breaking her spirit.

Not sure either why it means breaking of spirit. I always think if you are going to venture in this direction, as a PYL you would choose a pyl who not only has a bit more strength than some others, but continues to present a challenge without being a SAM. Sometimes that challenge can be molding them into what you want, only to then switch gears and begin the process all over again, but with a change of direction and outcome. I think it also comes down to what a person sees as D/s for them....if a PYL feels it is the place of the pyl to place checks and restraints on them and their behaviour in the relationship, no doubt they are unsuited to a dynamic which thrives on challenge and diversity where the PYL controls the direction and goals. In that situation I can see why a PYL might lose respect because basically they do not understand how it could even be possible, nor what effort it sometimes takes for the pyl to remain true to their commitment...they mistake it for weakness, or being broken....that to me is terribly sad.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

My son is screwed. Isn't he?

Clearly!

 

[VelvetDarkness]

The way you describe this makes it hot. I can see doing this. Prior, plain captivity seemed boring. Fucking with sleep schedules, food, and the like makes it more interesting.

I'm not one to do slow suffering. I can't put a gal on a horse and let her whine and squirm for hours. I get bored and have to mess with the situation. This is more active. Good show.

Yeah, Master is a lot like this. The things I've suffered as a direct result of his short attention span and propensity to get easily bored...

 

[Homburg]

I didn't read between the lines before I posted, therefore I didn't see who the quoted post in my reply was aimed toward. My post is not aimed at anyone here.

My post is just a glimpse into what makes me tick. My personal tastes still revolve around the mystery of seduction and edging the line of previously setforth hard limits. Without something to look forward too that I have to work for...........I get bored down the line.

If everything is available to me at all times with zero resistance on my sub's part...............It loses part of It's kink value for me personally.

Of course..........YMMV.

Yeah, my mileage does vary. To my mind, the mindset you describe is one that faces a string of term-limited relationships. If your joy is pushing limits, eventually you will push them all, and get bored regardless. I would rather define my relationships based solely on how much I dig the person that I am in the relationship with, and let the dynamic flow from there. Mystery ceases to be a factor after a certain number of years with someone. (unless you create more, or you just fail to really get into the other person)

And zero resistance? *snort* No such thing. Even osg, as submissive as she is, describes hesitance and displeasure at some of what her owner asks of her. she does it anyway, but it is clear that she dislikes it. I've yet to meet an actual android. Maybe I will someday. *shrug*

It's like what Cat says. The good ones are strong. Much stronger than most people realise.

--

Yeah, Master is a lot like this. The things I've suffered as a direct result of his short attention span and propensity to get easily bored...

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I've yet to meet an actual android. Maybe I will someday. *shrug*

*giggles*

I wonder how long a robot SUBB-E (Submissive Uncomplaining Biosynthetic Bottom - Extreme class) would last you before you shorted all its circuits?

 

[Marquis]

This was so elaborately planned. I was going to keep it to myself as a little mental treasure but what Marquis wants, Marquis gets.

I went to meet Master from work. I don't always do this but we had been chatting on msn and he said it would be nice to walk back with me. I go to his office, which has a carpark and staff entrance around the back, where I usually wait for him. He sends a text saying that he's got to stay behind for a little while and I should wait for him to leave. I sit on a low wall circumnavigating the parking area and wait. All the lights begin to go out, including the ones in the car park and I can see Master's outline walking down the stairwell, checking each floor and killing lights as he goes.

Tape goes over my mouth and I'm yanked off the wall, a blade presses against my throat and I'm told not to scream, a hood goes over my head. I'm then marched to a car and roughly guided into the boot where my hands and feet are bound with tape. Master doesn't drive.

The car drives for a long time (unbeknown to me, in circles) and then pulls up. I'm lifted and carried inside and placed on what feels like a sofa. The door closes and I'm lifted again and taken down some stairs. 'A cellar!' I think. 'Maybe it's just Master springing an elaborate mindfuck?'

Then I'm placed in the cage and as far as I know, Master doesn't own one. 'Where the fuck am I?' I'm left there for about half an hour (while he ate, it transpires) but it feels like ages. I'm cramped, cold, disoriented and scared shitless. He comes back and the cage is opened. He drags me to the bedframe and pins me against it, cuts the tape off my wrists and secures them to the frame, same with my legs. I'm facing the wall when the hood comes off. I start trying to reason with him, tell him my boyfriend knew I was there and will be looking for me. He slaps the tape back on my mouth, saying nothing.

He cuts off my clothes and touches me between my legs (dry as a bone, thank fuck), then I hear his zipper descend and I literally start shaking from head to foot, violently and uncontrollably, something I've never done before. Master then held my collar in front of me, so I could recognise it. He put it around my neck and I was so relieved, I burst into tears.

It was the most amazing time. The terror he'd forced me to experience made everything that followed electric and life affirming, everything was in an adrenaline charged hyperdrive and we had some of the best sex in the history of mankind. I'm glad he owned up to who he was when he did though, I couldn't have dealt with it if he had continued.

I was in that cellar for 2 nights and 2 days, sometimes blindfolded and deaf, sometimes left chained to something or caged, sometimes escorted to the toilet, sometimes forced to pee in a bucket, sometimes left in darkness, sometimes with the light on. He was so capricious and unpredictable that there is almost nothing he couldn't have coerced me into, a notion that worries us both in retrospect. He tortured me over P again, tortured me into falsely confessing that I had imagined it was P who abducted me when I had no idea who it was and P never entered my head. Then he punished me for my disloyalty. He turned the light on and off and had me sleep at odd times and for short periods so that I didn't know if it was day or night. He even put my meds in my food and fed me small amounts at erratic intervals, so I couldn't keep track from the dosage times. He set tasks I couldn't accomplish, laughed at me while I tried and then punished me for failing. He told me he had invited another woman around and then later went up 2 floors to the bedroom and played porn while I listened, desperate to know if he was shitting me or not. He did everything he could think of and had me serve him every which way when he wasn't tormenting me.

It sounds ridiculous and probably bizarre but this really brought us closer together. There was so much trust involved and I interacted with nobody except him for all that time (and what with the weird sleep times it felt like much longer). The fact that I lived through it, came out unscathed and not psychologically damaged has convinced me that it's something I'd love to happen again, when he wants it to.

We also had a lengthy debrief on the Sunday evening and he cooked for me and spoiled me rotten. I couldn't think of anything that I wouldn't ever want to happen again but plenty of things I'd love for him to try.

This is pure romance, at its best.

Good show.

 

[JMohegan]

I didn't read between the lines before I posted, therefore I didn't see who the quoted post in my reply was aimed toward. My post is not aimed at anyone here.

My post is just a glimpse into what makes me tick. My personal tastes still revolve around the mystery of seduction and edging the line of previously setforth hard limits. Without something to look forward too that I have to work for...........I get bored down the line.

If everything is available to me at all times with zero resistance on my sub's part...............It loses part of It's kink value for me personally.

Of course..........YMMV.

Reading between the lines wasn't necessary. My post wasn't aimed at anyone here either.


Have you ever struggled with the confusion that sometimes comes with the "I love her/ I want to make her cry" dichotomy? Or the confusion surrounding: "She seems self-respecting/ she lets me hurt & humiliate her" dichotomy as well?

"What's wrong with me?" "What's wrong with her?"

The shift from appreciation to lack of respect that I mentioned related to the D-type's processing of these types of questions. I wasn't addressing the issue of whether or not he was bored.

 

[Homburg]

*giggles*

I wonder how long a robot SUBB-E (Submissive Uncomplaining Biosynthetic Bottom - Extreme class) would last you before you shorted all its circuits?

Water Bondage would be right out.

I have all these weird scenarios in my head now after reading SUBB-E and having just seen Wall-E last weekend. EVE was totally the top in that dynamic.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Water Bondage would be right out.

I have all these weird scenarios in my head now after reading SUBB-E and having just seen Wall-E last weekend. EVE was totally the top in that dynamic.

I haven't actually seen the film yet. It has some good reviews though. WALL-E is indeed EVE's bitch though.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Not sure either why it means breaking of spirit. I always think if you are going to venture in this direction, as a PYL you would choose a pyl who not only has a bit more strength than some others, but continues to present a challenge without being a SAM. Sometimes that challenge can be molding them into what you want, only to then switch gears and begin the process all over again, but with a change of direction and outcome. I think it also comes down to what a person sees as D/s for them....if a PYL feels it is the place of the pyl to place checks and restraints on them and their behaviour in the relationship, no doubt they are unsuited to a dynamic which thrives on challenge and diversity where the PYL controls the direction and goals. In that situation I can see why a PYL might lose respect because basically they do not understand how it could even be possible, nor what effort it sometimes takes for the pyl to remain true to their commitment...they mistake it for weakness, or being broken....that to me is terribly sad.

Catalina

YES!!! Can i say how tired i am of being treated like i am the problem because i do not want to set limits??? Everyone thinks its going to be great fun until they actually get someone with little or no limits and realize they have aboslutely no clue what to do with that much responsibility\power.

On a further note, i was recently completely and totally devestated by getting my hopes up way to high for a meeting which was very stupid and shortsighted but the hurt did not come from the use which was pretty damn extreme, objectifying and dehumanizing. It came from the same kind of broken promises and unfilfilled hopes that plague vanilla relationships. Any woman would have been disappointed and well in little girl state it was basically earth shattering but little girls aren't good at not getting their hopes up.

But back to Cat's point, i am NOT a doormat but i do go to a place within myself where i willingly open myself up to be hurt partly because when it works the ecstacy is soo great and on the flip side when it doesn't the hurt is much much worse than any hurt i would experience in a more guarded mode. i guess i understand why so many Dominants want to be the one to take you to that place and resent it that you are already "there" and because they never knew you before have less appreciation for the effort involved.

i just don't understand really why i should have to fake being some sort of semi submissive person so someone can think they are pushing me. It does bother me though that i now have less value than i did when i resisted. i have not decided exactly what to do about it, perhaps nothing.

 

[BiBunny]

Ok, I want to address a few points here.

First of all, anyone who says a "wild" filly is better than a well-trained one obviously hasn't fallen off as many horses as I have. I realize this is a metaphor, but it's a shitty one. A polite, well-mannered horse that does what it's supposed to do is far from being "broken." In my rather extensive experience with Tennessee Walking Horses (13 years), I've found that the ones who are the most willing to please are, paradoxically, the ones with the most fire in them. It's those two traits--tractable and spirited--that make the best show horses. The ones who are "broken" in spirit aren't mindless automatons. They're usually so goddamned scared of people that you'll get hurt just trying to comb their manes out. One false move, and BAM! He's fighting for his life, and you've been caught unawares and, likely, underfoot.

I realize this isn't a horse forum, so I won't go on. But I see that stupid comparison of subs to horses all the time, and it's a bad one, for more reasons than I've stated here.

Secondly, thanks to Homburg for pointing out that I, of all people, am hardly some kind of robot. Also, thanks to Netz and Cat for saying things better than I do. I like to tell things like they are, from my perspective, but no matter how perceptive one is, the first-person narrative is called "limited" for a reason.

Thirdly, if you want to comment on me, my relationships, and my choices, feel free, but a.) have the balls to actually admit that you're doing so and b.) know that you have nothing that's even close to the full story.

Fourthly, "devotion up to death" does not extend to Billy Bob across the street or Sue Ann over at the Wal-Mart. I have let one person in my life do things to me that I'd have kicked anyone else's ass for even attempting. Love, to me, is simply all-encompassing in that way. On the other hand, I'm not some fly-by-night Internet subbie who falls in "love" with a new jackass every other week, either. Yes, I recognize the devotion is stupid, but I still get some perverse pleasure out of it. I'm not hurting anybody, and I'm perfectly strong enough and capable enough to function in the real world in spite of it, so what's the problem again?

And, finally, if anyone wants to stand around in judgment of others, that's fine and dandy. But, again, y'all DO realize that's a slippery slope, right? The line is so arbitrary that it can be drawn anywhere, including the supposedly milder and more acceptable things that y'all do. Keep that in mind.

 

[ataxia.girl]

On the other hand, I'm not some fly-by-night Internet subbie who falls in "love" with a new jackass every other week, either. Yes, I recognize the devotion is stupid, but I still get some perverse pleasure out of it. I'm not hurting anybody, and I'm perfectly strong enough and capable enough to function in the real world in spite of it, so what's the problem again?

Well i had known Uncle Jackass since March and i wasn't quite in "love" with him yet but i do see your point. Truth be told there were warning signs and i knew it was possible i was going to be the victim of a strange predator but i couldn't resist finding out. Certainly in no way trying to equate your LTR with my little crazy affair and maybe was just a coincidence you used the word jackass.

i do not submit to just anyone either, its not possible, there are too many. On the other hand when i do submit, i do it totally. Yes i probably do it too indescriminately and too quickly because i feel old and frantic like time is running out but i identify with your comment about love being all or nothing, complete and total. For me, now that the extreme limits have been passed once the submission switch is flipped its total. i no longer seem to know how to partially submit, or incrementally submit.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I'm a psycho sadist. I get guilty-wet reading not about the beatings and the electrocutions of political prisoners but about the desperation, the writing on sheets, the drawing on walls, the terrified and defiant hours confined.
Bondage+cracking ego = perfect.

I'm also really REALLY fascinated by the "good cop" interrogation style. Befriending and betraying. Isn't that the worst of all?

On the flip side this is the part that attracts me to being "in the cage". i want to know what would i do, what would i think about, how would i kill myself, what would happen if i refused to eat, drink, threw shit at him etc. How would i plot my revenge, would i have the guts to actually carry it out, would i be able to continue to submit after getting out of the cage.

i can think about confinement as a warm, fuzzy, safe, wonderful place or as the pit of hell. i am curious to experience both.

 

[BiBunny]

Well i had known Uncle Jackass since March and i wasn't quite in "love" with him yet but i do see your point. Truth be told there were warning signs and i knew it was possible i was going to be the victim of a strange predator but i couldn't resist finding out. Certainly in no way trying to equate your LTR with my little crazy affair and maybe was just a coincidence you used the word jackass.

i do not submit to just anyone either, its not possible, there are too many. On the other hand when i do submit, i do it totally. Yes i probably do it too indescriminately and too quickly because i feel old and frantic like time is running out but i identify with your comment about love being all or nothing, complete and total. For me, now that the extreme limits have been passed once the submission switch is flipped its total. i no longer seem to know how to partially submit, or incrementally submit.

"Jackass" is probably a good word for it.

I actually didn't see your post before I posted mine, so I'm guessing we were writing at the same time. Please don't think I was talking about you in that post or making light of your situation.

I agree about love being all or nothing at all. I'm a little different in that before I met that one person, I'd never wanted to "submit" before, and I haven't wanted to since, either. I think it was a matter of the right people being in the right place, and it just happened. I don't even miss submission in general now. I'm mostly a Toppy switch with a maso side.

I think the fact that it's not something I normally do is part of the reason that it hit me so hard when I did do it.

 

[ataxia.girl]

From my perspective, this attitude might be construed as devotion to the part of me I refer to as my inner sadist. However, it would definitely be construed as gross dereliction with respect to me, the total man.



Speaking not about your situation, but in general here, I'll describe one problem that may arise.

When a woman lets a man do whatever he desires to her, with no effort to rein him in and no perceptible checks or restraints relating to her welfare or needs, his celebration of her willingness to do so sometimes reaches a point at which it transforms into a lack of respect for her willingness to do so.

And when that point is reached, it is often just a matter of time before the woman is discarded like yesterday's trash.

This may seem unfair, and it surely is. This may seem like a risk that applies solely to vanilla relationships, but it is not.

oooooo OWIE!

Uncle Jackass and i just had this very discussion. He holds me in contempt for satisfying the urges of his inner sadist for which he feels guilty!!! My submission gives an outlet to all he hates within himself, therefore he hates me. i think many sadists are like this.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I agree about love being all or nothing at all. I'm a little different in that before I met that one person, I'd never wanted to "submit" before, and I haven't wanted to since, either. I think it was a matter of the right people being in the right place, and it just happened. I don't even miss submission in general now. I'm mostly a Toppy switch with a maso side.

I think the fact that it's not something I normally do is part of the reason that it hit me so hard when I did do it.

okay just checking. i feel a little silly for some of the crazy shit i have been getting up to lately but on the other hand they are experiences and i don't see why not share.

yes i am sure you are right. i first submitted in my early twenties and it was a wild wild ride tho mostly vanilla. i was all or nothing, would die for him in love. That one experience did not make me more submissive in general which has been a more recent development.

 

[Netzach]

oooooo OWIE!

Uncle Jackass and i just had this very discussion. He holds me in contempt for satisfying the urges of his inner sadist for which he feels guilty!!! My submission gives an outlet to all he hates within himself, therefore he hates me. i think many sadists are like this.

...and we call no limits slaves "unhealthy"

 

[Netzach]

I have absolutely no resistance with my bull. No defiance. He's not into anything all that outlandish, so it's not like I'm being pushed hard, but if he wanted to, he could.

Simply not having any "no" in me is strange enough for me to experience. I don't have to face eating shit or sucking fifty strange cocks or whatever extremes of experience are out there to feel rather exposed that way, and if someone were to roll them out as what ifs that's beside the point.

I don't think anyone would call me unchallenging or uninteresting as a submissive prospect, while I would not dream of directly saying no to my top over anything he could come up with, provided it's him coming up with it. That's just the response I have to this particular person. I'm remarkably easy if you've got me. Only one person ever "got me" in the sense of understanding the puzzle and getting.