Long term captivity

[ataxia.girl]

...and we call no limits slaves "unhealthy"

i am beginning to think it is all just part of what makes this game so irresistable. i like playing with fire and despite repeatedly getting burned i know i am going to do it again and once again be oh so surprised it burns me instead of loves me.

If i can get the sadist to love me by submitting fully it is like some sort of validation; salvation almost. The more twisted and evil the sadist the greater the salvation when my submission makes them love me. i'm as fucked up as they are.

 

[JMohegan]

oooooo OWIE!

Uncle Jackass and i just had this very discussion. He holds me in contempt for satisfying the urges of his inner sadist for which he feels guilty!!! My submission gives an outlet to all he hates within himself, therefore he hates me. i think many sadists are like this.

Ouch indeed. I'm sorry this happened to you.

Has it changed the way you interact with D-types? Anything you ask about, or do differently now, when looking for a mate?

 

[BiBunny]

I have absolutely no resistance with my bull. No defiance. He's not into anything all that outlandish, so it's not like I'm being pushed hard, but if he wanted to, he could.

Simply not having any "no" in me is strange enough for me to experience. I don't have to face eating shit or sucking fifty strange cocks or whatever extremes of experience are out there to feel rather exposed that way, and if someone were to roll them out as what ifs that's beside the point.

I don't think anyone would call me unchallenging or uninteresting as a submissive prospect, while I would not dream of directly saying no to my top over anything he could come up with, provided it's him coming up with it. That's just the response I have to this particular person. I'm remarkably easy if you've got me. Only one person ever "got me" in the sense of understanding the puzzle and getting.

This is remarkably like what I was trying to say, only much, much better articulated. I find myself saying that to you a lot, and it's kinda scary.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Ouch indeed. I'm sorry this happened to you.

Has it changed the way you interact with D-types? Anything you ask about, or do differently now, when looking for a mate?

It just happened. i don't know what, if anything, will change. i will most likely go back to putting up a very resistant front and being very cagey about what i have done in the past. Part of my problem is i am very open and honest and so it becomes clear very quickly when people talk to me that i don't really have limits once i decide to submit. This opens me up to people who will lure me in just so they can live out X fantasy. My "little girl" thing also opens me up to getting sucked in but i know that and will be as leary as i can knowing that Doms can use my desire for that type of play\fantasy to get to me.

i like to play with no limits, TPE type Doms which is another problem. i also can't afford to do a lot of non sexual RL meetings before having an actual play date because of time\distance constraints. If i'm going to fly out to see someone or they are coming to see me then we need to make it worth it.

Most likely i will just be somewhat more guarded and listen to my instincts more. Like i said, there were signs but there also weren't alot of options and there was the possibility he was what he said he was, or at least somewhat like what he said he was. i took a risk and i knew that going in.

He would say he doesn't hate me, that he loves me but i really think he loves me because i made him feel guilty (i.e. human). i tend to make people feel pretty shitty when they hurt me. Sadists that hate themselves are very dangerous creatures.

 

[ataxia.girl]

i did want to clarify that i don't regret anything he did to me. The use was good in addition to extreme. It was just all there was and much much much less than what was portrayed. Serious emotional contracts were broken.

i am not one of those subs who lets Doms do things and then changes her mind after the fact.

 

[ownedsubgal]

i just don't understand really why i should have to fake being some sort of semi submissive person so someone can think they are pushing me. It does bother me though that i now have less value than i did when i resisted. i have not decided exactly what to do about it, perhaps nothing.

don't you believe for one second that you have less value as a complete submissive than as one who submits conditionally or will resist at times. though they may not be as vocal as those who claim to want a "tame lioness" (much like the wild horse analogy, that's another one that irritates the flock outta me), there are some wonderful Masters out there who find your particular flavor of submission to be a rare and priceless treasure, and hope their whole lives to claim and own such a submissive. it can be so hard feeling misunderstood, unaccepted, sometimes even vilified for not being or attempting to be like everyone else, i know. but never allow others to change who you are or to make you feel like what you have to offer isn't beautiful and valuable.

 

[Marquis]

I can say for myself that a tamed lioness is precisely what I desire.

I think I would have little interest in a woman that was all sub all the time, from day one. Eddie Murphy's betrothed in Coming to America comes to mind.

On the other hand, a character I come across much more often is the sub that is happy to submit to the omnipotent power of the fictional dominant she has created in her own mind. Finding real life flesh and blood humans to be highly undeserving, she doesn't do a whole lot of submitting. At least not to me.

 

[Homburg]

I haven't actually seen the film yet. It has some good reviews though. WALL-E is indeed EVE's bitch though.

It is a great film. One of the most purely enjoyable movies I've seen in a long time. No, it's not Merchant Ivory, but it is a good flick nonetheless.

----

Ok, I want to address a few points here.

First of all, anyone who says a "wild" filly is better than a well-trained one obviously hasn't fallen off as many horses as I have. I realize this is a metaphor, but it's a shitty one. A polite, well-mannered horse that does what it's supposed to do is far from being "broken." In my rather extensive experience with Tennessee Walking Horses (13 years), I've found that the ones who are the most willing to please are, paradoxically, the ones with the most fire in them. It's those two traits--tractable and spirited--that make the best show horses. The ones who are "broken" in spirit aren't mindless automatons. They're usually so goddamned scared of people that you'll get hurt just trying to comb their manes out. One false move, and BAM! He's fighting for his life, and you've been caught unawares and, likely, underfoot.

I realize this isn't a horse forum, so I won't go on. But I see that stupid comparison of subs to horses all the time, and it's a bad one, for more reasons than I've stated here.

Yup, while I have nowhere near the level of experience you do, horses really are that way. I guess most people have as much understanding of horses as they do no limit submissives, eh?

That, and I've said this before, I've learned more about D/s from dealing with horses and hunting dogs than I have from people.

Yes, I recognize the devotion is stupid, but I still get some perverse pleasure out of it. I'm not hurting anybody, and I'm perfectly strong enough and capable enough to function in the real world in spite of it, so what's the problem again?

I disagree, darlin. That sort of devotion is not stupid.

 

[Marquis]

All I want is a bitch that is submissive but also has a personality.

We've all met people with no personality. No opinions, no beliefs, no spine. I'm the sort of charismatic individual that attracts this type like a magnet.

"Wow Marquis!!! You're so fucking cool! I want to be just like you!! In fact, I am just like you, let me show you why/how!!"

That sort of shit gets real fucking old real fucking fast. It can be a nice ego boost, sure, but I'm not dead yet. I'm not done learning or experiencing things. I want to be around people who can offer me more than mimicry.

 

[ownedsubgal]

All I want is a bitch that is submissive but also has a personality.

We've all met people with no personality. No opinions, no beliefs, no spine. I'm the sort of charismatic individual that attracts this type like a magnet.

"Wow Marquis!!! You're so fucking cool! I want to be just like you!! In fact, I am just like you, let me show you why/how!!"

That sort of shit gets real fucking old real fucking fast. It can be a nice ego boost, sure, but I'm not dead yet. I'm not done learning or experiencing things. I want to be around people who can offer me more than mimicry.

so do you feel that a woman who will submit to you fully and always from the very start is not likely to a have a personality? will? spirit? and if so, why?

 

[BiBunny]

I can say for myself that a tamed lioness is precisely what I desire.

I think I would have little interest in a woman that was all sub all the time, from day one. Eddie Murphy's betrothed in Coming to America comes to mind.

On the other hand, a character I come across much more often is the sub that is happy to submit to the omnipotent power of the fictional dominant she has created in her own mind. Finding real life flesh and blood humans to be highly undeserving, she doesn't do a whole lot of submitting. At least not to me.

Ok, I'm speculating (i.e., talking out of my ass) here, but this makes me curious.

Do you think this goes back to something OSG said in that slave/sub thread a few days ago about "submissive" and "slave" not being mutually exclusive of one another? "Submissive," of course, being used in the adjective version, as a description of one's personality, and "slave" simply meaning "owned."

So, like, OSG would be both submissive and a slave, while I'm not submissive, though I was a slave once. And some people can be submissive without ever being a slave. Or something like that.

I swear, I was really going somewhere with this, but I got a call in the middle of it, and now I've totally lost my train of thought. Feel free to pick it up or discard it.

 

[Netzach]

All I want is a bitch that is submissive but also has a personality.

We've all met people with no personality. No opinions, no beliefs, no spine. I'm the sort of charismatic individual that attracts this type like a magnet.

"Wow Marquis!!! You're so fucking cool! I want to be just like you!! In fact, I am just like you, let me show you why/how!!"

That sort of shit gets real fucking old real fucking fast. It can be a nice ego boost, sure, but I'm not dead yet. I'm not done learning or experiencing things. I want to be around people who can offer me more than mimicry.

I've met socially dominant people with no personality. They get their personalities from the authority structure that backs up their power.

H and M are both very omega people, there's no "wow, what a conquest" factor there, but there's a lot of character and depth and interest.

 

[Marquis]

so do you feel that a woman who will submit to you fully and always from the very start is not likely to a have a personality? will? spirit? and if so, why?

Let me answer your question with a question.

If this is your M.O., to submit fully and always from the very start.....

What makes you choose your Master?

I mean, was he just at the right place at the right time or what?

 

[Marquis]

Ok, I'm speculating (i.e., talking out of my ass) here, but this makes me curious.

Do you think this goes back to something OSG said in that slave/sub thread a few days ago about "submissive" and "slave" not being mutually exclusive of one another? "Submissive," of course, being used in the adjective version, as a description of one's personality, and "slave" simply meaning "owned."

So, like, OSG would be both submissive and a slave, while I'm not submissive, though I was a slave once. And some people can be submissive without ever being a slave. Or something like that.

I swear, I was really going somewhere with this, but I got a call in the middle of it, and now I've totally lost my train of thought. Feel free to pick it up or discard it.

I'm not interested in a discussion on labels.

If you're asking if the idea of a person who is not entirely that submissive by nature submitting to me is appealing, the answer is yes.

 

[Marquis]

I've met socially dominant people with no personality. They get their personalities from the authority structure that backs up their power.

H and M are both very omega people, there's no "wow, what a conquest" factor there, but there's a lot of character and depth and interest.

I just want an answer when I ask, "what's on your mind?"

That's all I'm saying here.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not interested in a discussion on labels.

If you're asking if the idea of a person who is not entirely that submissive by nature submitting to me is appealing, the answer is yes.

Yeah, that's where I was trying to go. Like I said, I got interrupted in the middle of that post and sort of forgot the point, and that's why it doesn't make a whole lot of sense now. Wasn't trying to start that whole label war over again.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Let me answer your question with a question.

If this is your M.O., to submit fully and always from the very start.....

What makes you choose your Master?

I mean, was he just at the right place at the right time or what?

i don't submit fully from the very start but once i've decided to submit i pretty much just do it. i may submit sort of incrementally for awhile but it doesn't really last that long, is not very well thought out, and is fairly easily overcome. It's mostly just a show. In certain ways i am basically hard-wired to submit sexually.

This isn't to say i'm not interesting and don't have personality but sexually i'm just very submissive. Men who like the chase and very linear boundary pushing seem to find me boring as a sexual conquest because they win me too quickly and then they don't know where to go. Intellectually i can run circles around most of them which they also find disconcerting.

 

[ataxia.girl]

don't you believe for one second that you have less value as a complete submissive than as one who submits conditionally or will resist at times. though they may not be as vocal as those who claim to want a "tame lioness" (much like the wild horse analogy, that's another one that irritates the flock outta me), there are some wonderful Masters out there who find your particular flavor of submission to be a rare and priceless treasure, and hope their whole lives to claim and own such a submissive. it can be so hard feeling misunderstood, unaccepted, sometimes even vilified for not being or attempting to be like everyone else, i know. but never allow others to change who you are or to make you feel like what you have to offer isn't beautiful and valuable.

thank you

i think i needed to hear that right now

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I think for me that my level of submission varies according to what degree of resistance or autonomy he deems appropriate at any given time. If he asks me what I'd like for dinner, I'll tell him. If we're chatting about something and I disagree with his opinion, I'll say so. If a serious decision needs to be made, I'll give whatever opinion or information I feel it relevant for him to know. If he's about to make a choice that I strongly disagree with, I may quietly sit him down and restate whatever my case is for emphasis.

But if he looks at me with that hard glint in his eye and asks anything, what he'll get is submission - absolute and unadulterated obedience. I will not question him or resist in any way because I know that now is not the time.

And then there are days when life sucks and I couldn't give a fuck how pleased with my service he is. When he leaves his underwear drawer hanging open for the thousandth time, misses the laundry basket with yesterday's boxers and leaves stubble all over the bathroom, I will call him on it and probably with bad grace. I am after all, only human.

And if I never stepped out of line I think that things would become a little stale. No offence at all to OSG and AG but my Master does find total obedience 100% of the time a little dull. We both need that spark and I've literally laid my ass on the line numerous times in the interest of keeping it. He likes knowing that I occasionally get thoroughly pissed off with my place as his slave, only for brief interludes but it's enough to give him the warm fuzzies for a job well done as the blight of my life.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Let me answer your question with a question.

If this is your M.O., to submit fully and always from the very start.....

What makes you choose your Master?

I mean, was he just at the right place at the right time or what?

it was i who was in the right place at the right time.

but there is a difference between being owned by someone, and submitting (even totally) to someone. one is the complete handing over of self...the other is just being driven to serve, please and be obedient to another. for me to submit to someone doesn't take much, only that they make the demand of me and that i am capable of fulfilling that demand. but for me to willingly choose a man as my Owner, he'd have to possess the traits which make a good Master in my view (like naturally dominant personality, very confident, demanding, highly intelligent, intimidating, secure, stable, strong, etc.), and the thought of being the property of that person for the rest of my days or until they decide to release me, no matter what, has to fill me with a sense of peace rather than dread.

but i was asking you about submission, not slavery. why is the idea of being with a woman whose primary drive is to please you, who will accept you for who you are, not test you or your worthiness before submitting to you, won't resist you or put up a fight, will obey you always without hesitation or complaint....why is this so unappealing? and also why the assumption that such a woman would be a puppet or mindless doll (i.e. the Coming to America chick)? i'm genuinely curious, as this is a sentiment i've heard from Dominants online often, but a reason is never really given.

 

[Marquis]

it was i who was in the right place at the right time.

but there is a difference between being owned by someone, and submitting (even totally) to someone. one is the complete handing over of self...the other is just being driven to serve, please and be obedient to another. for me to submit to someone doesn't take much, only that they make the demand of me and that i am capable of fulfilling that demand. but for me to willingly choose a man as my Owner, he'd have to possess the traits which make a good Master in my view (like naturally dominant personality, very confident, demanding, highly intelligent, intimidating, secure, stable, strong, etc.), and the thought of being the property of that person for the rest of my days or until they decide to release me, no matter what, has to fill me with a sense of peace rather than dread.

but i was asking you about submission, not slavery. why is the idea of being with a woman whose primary drive is to please you, who will accept you for who you are, not test you or your worthiness before submitting to you, won't resist you or put up a fight, will obey you always without hesitation or complaint....why is this so unappealing? and also why the assumption that such a woman would be a puppet or mindless doll (i.e. the Coming to America chick)? i'm genuinely curious, as this is a sentiment i've heard from Dominants online often, but a reason is never really given.

The idea of being with a woman whose primary drive is to please me, who will accept me for who I am, not test me or my worthiness before submitting to me, won't resist me or put up a fight, will obey me always without hesitation or complaint is extremely appealing. It is the ancillary characteristics that come along with this that I find unappealing.

My experience is that people generally are who they are. We have less defenses with those we're closer to, but no one is pulling a 180. All these bitches who are CEOs and Colonels by day and abject slaves by night are lying through their teeth to help fulfill their own fantasy.

That said, your level of D and s is also going to be relative to the person you're interacting with. I'm a pretty dominant guy. Probably to a lot of people, even comically dominant. I'm ok with that, it's not a show, it's who I am. There are, of course, women who are so dominant that even temporary compatibility is out of the question. There are also a lot of women that fancy themselves maneaters that find themselves playing a very different role with me.

But I have no patience for those women on a more long term basis and the feeling is usually mutual. I find myself compatible with women who self-identify as submissive, find fulfillment in being submissive and don't lose too much sleep over it.

All the way on the other end of the spectrum are women like you, OSG. You know that I think the world of you and your relationship with your Master. Like Netzach, I think you are a fascinating creature but totally out of the range of what I look for in a partner. I could never handle that kind of responsibility, for one, but it goes much deeper than that.

I just don't want someone THAT submissive. I'm not THAT dominant.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I could never handle that kind of responsibility, for one, but it goes much deeper than that.

I just don't want someone THAT submissive. I'm not THAT dominant.

i believe the responsibility thing but the part where you're not that dominant is kind of hard to swallow.

Are you afraid what you might do with someone that submissive?

i am not as submissive as OSG. i really wish i were because it think i would have more peace that way but i'm not. i'll submit to basically anything but on the flip side i get upset, pout, sulk throw tantrums, and will basically make your life hell if at all possible if i think you've screwed up. i am also sometimes wrong about the screwing up part even. my mouth also gets in the way. i will see your weaknesses and i will use them against you and point them out when i'm unhappy. i don't mean i mouth off in the moment but in between and around in conversation i will make it apparent just what i think of you in as unveiled a way as i think i can get away with. i will continue to submit but most people don't find it that fun to use someone in that state or they might for awhile but it gets old. i'm also pretty fun to be with when i'm not upset so its almost like i have my own built in carrot and stick. Most Doms want to see my smile again just because they like it and i can't really fake it.

i'm not that much of a pain in the ass with everyone, just people who i am in or considering an ownership\guardianship or whatever type relationship with. Its like i need to know they can handle that part and that i need hold nothing back. i do think over time my little episodes would become less severe as i became more secure in their ability to handle it and "help" me work through\past them. i know OSG's Master does not put up with this kind of shit. Its hard for me to say whether that would work for me or not. If there was a little patience and creativity there it might as some of it i just can't control and is going to happen. i look for someone who can let me have my little drama without getting too sucked into it.

 

[ataxia.girl]

double post

 

[catalina_francisco]

I just want an answer when I ask, "what's on your mind?"

That's all I'm saying here.

LOL, be careful what you wish for, you might get more, or different to what you bargained for!

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

It sounds ridiculous and probably bizarre but this really brought us closer together. There was so much trust involved and I interacted with nobody except him for all that time (and what with the weird sleep times it felt like much longer).

Doesn't sound bizarre to me. I have found these things are what brings out a closeness unparalleled to any other. Some don't get it, and some feel that it requires involving others to reach that closeness and trust, but by far the most memorable and binding experiences we have had have been just us.

Catalina