Love this "50 Shades" article.

[Redkate]

I feel the book portray BDSM dadly and as something only for freaks or fucked up people BECAUSE Ana is only ok with being a little kinky but not the other parts of Christians sexual likes.

It's not, to me anyway, a book about Ana discovering her kinky side. It's about Ana saving Christian from his BDSM likes and making him more vanilla. Ana could have 'saved him' and still enjoyed BDSM.

I think the books are only so popular because of this. If Ana became a full on sub I don't think it would be so popular.

As far as all The characters go who enjoy the lifestyle and are portrayed badly, you keep mentioning that we know that not all of Greys ex's are fucked up. But we don't meet them (well except for one and it's only for a moment when she stalks Ana with the crazy sub - so is she really normal too?). So all the characters that we meet and are familiar with are fucked up and have BDSM in common.

Bah, I don't thinkive made myself clear, I hate posting from my iPhone! It's do much harder to type!

 

[njlauren]

As someone with some background both in commercial audio-visual production (won't go into it at the moment) as well as in professional and commercial literary businesses, including marketing and, dare I say it, even banking - the idea that this book 'sold millions before it went on the shelves' ought to be viewed through the lens of understanding that booksellers and the news media and even television are all vertically integrated these days. The marketing buzz is highly artificial, and the store 'pre-sales' are to do with whether the titles are shipped 'sale or return' or 'commission paid upfront' which is basically an arrangement between the publisher and the outlet chains - except that they are all linked through corporate ownership and/or control.

Secondly, there were a number of book editors and publishers who went through a few British and Australian BDSM chatboards a while back and quite a few people such as myself supposed - I think correctly - that they were plumbing the market depth and more or less pinching ideas and presuming there was a dedicated market at the end of it all, provided they could exploit it adequately. The internet has exposed the otherwise underground interest of it all and now we even have dommes versus Sherlock Holmes and Beyonce et cetera although admittedly the whole thing was never that far away from people like Madonna and just generally in a lot of fiction anyway albeit quite lightly.

Millions of copies actually sold? Hmn. Whatever they say. But a really successful popular effort in today's terms ought to be compared with the collaborative work of that real-life dom Ian Fleming - 'Thunderball' - which in today's money made a billion dollars. Casino Royale, the book, was a groundbreaker in terms of opening the mass public to hardcore S&M scenes within a decent popular and current storyline. I'm still looking for '1 Shade of Truth' - a real BDSM-angled thing in the modern context with a genuine avant garde edge that will turn over a billion dollars, and not just a few million (allegedly). And that will also be groundbreaking, and not a marketing-spun weak exploitation of a real world of real - including some stunning and exciting and interesting - people.

The only thing wrong with your thesis is that it fails any kind of validity. While I don't doubt marketing types are plumbing the depths for ideas, data mining and the like, a corporate vertical control of media can influence what books make it, with 50 shades of gray that is highly unlikely. The book was initially published by a fly speck of a publisher from Australia as an e-book, and from the description of the company it is unlikely they would have a marketing department or minions running around hyping the book (in effect, it was one step up from being self published) and it sold a lot of books long before the current publishing deal happened (which happened only within the last several months; the books were published over a year ago). Yeah, now that a mainstream publisher bought the rights there has been a full court press, and I am sure some of the media hype is being generated by the marketing division at the publisher, no doubt. But that is recent, and the book sold almost a million copies as an e-book (there was a paperback but it was a vanity print, it was something like 35 bucks for the paperback).

Actually, 50 shades in some ways is reflective of a larger trend, where self published books in e-book format are becoming huge sellers without any kind of marketing or publicity other then word of mouth and reviews. Books like "Beautiful Disaster" sold a shitload of books based on word of mouth, now a publisher picked that up, and there are plenty of others. Personally I think it is a good thing, in effect 50 shades of gray and other books like that have broken a major problem with the publishing industry, where a small group of editors decides pretty much what will be published, what is 'important to publish', and wet their whistles on someone who routinely writes for the New Yorker Magazine and is lucky to sell 10,000 books while burying a lot of books that might sell well, and now can thanks to self publishing and so forth. Publishers only pick up on these books once they are successful, so arguing they created the hype makes no sense since many of these books had zero help from a big publisher initially.

 

[njlauren]

I don't need reminding....but as you say, online sales was through word of mouth and unfortunately, a lot of people will go for something if someone tells them it is good etc., and publicity is tuned to make a lot of people believe it is so..or it becomes the newest, latest trend to be seen following. Doesn't always mean it is and from what I have read, there are a lot of people saying it is not good (here and elsewhere), and is badly written which I agree with from my limited reading to date.

I can usually struggle through something which is not wonderful writing, but just reading the first page of this one was painful and had nothing to do with BDSM. A lot of people agree, and a lot of those people are not lacking in taste or education. I am not one to say I love something, or go along with someone/something, just because a hundred, thousand, or million other people do....it has served me well in my life and also helped me find and live the life I chose. We may have to agree to disagree on this one.

Catalina

And a lot more people love it. I could see hype selling a million copies of the first book, okay, but selling near or above 10 for all three books? No way. A lot of people have liked the books and have told others and that is why they ended up selling. Good writing is in the eye of the beholder, there are plenty of great books high school humanities teachers and college literature professors go ga ga over that I wouldn't line a birdcage with personally (as Mark Twain said about 'great books': "Great books are those books people think they should read, but don't want to")

Personally I think some of the criticism of 50 shades of Gray comes from the same people who think Huck Finn or the Merchant of Venice should be banned, they see things that are objectionable to them and don't look at the overall book. I am not saying SOG is a 'great book' or 'great literature', it was an okay book for a romance novel, just saying I think some have their needles out for reasons that don't make sense.

 

[njlauren]

I feel the book portray BDSM dadly and as something only for freaks or fucked up people BECAUSE Ana is only ok with being a little kinky but not the other parts of Christians sexual likes.

It's not, to me anyway, a book about Ana discovering her kinky side. It's about Ana saving Christian from his BDSM likes and making him more vanilla. Ana could have 'saved him' and still enjoyed BDSM.

I think the books are only so popular because of this. If Ana became a full on sub I don't think it would be so popular.

As far as all The characters go who enjoy the lifestyle and are portrayed badly, you keep mentioning that we know that not all of Greys ex's are fucked up. But we don't meet them (well except for one and it's only for a moment when she stalks Ana with the crazy sub - so is she really normal too?). So all the characters that we meet and are familiar with are fucked up and have BDSM in common.

Bah, I don't thinkive made myself clear, I hate posting from my iPhone! It's do much harder to type!

Iphone and android virtual keyboards suck. The book itself is a fairly standard romance theme, where the young, innocent girl helps the guy she loves overcome his fuck-upedness and so forth. I think you description of Ana is wrong, she doesn't cure Christian of his BD/SM likes, that is incorrect. Christian has no sense of self, he thinks he is worthless, his whole image of himself is that he is this damaged person whom has no right to love or to be loved. He can't stand to be touched because of his past and because he thinks he is dirty and shouldn't be touched. He also has been taught by "Mrs. Robinson" that what she did as a teenager to him 'saved his life' and so forth. What Ana does with Christian is to teach him he is loved and is a good person and he learns to have a relationship, a real relationship, outside of the contractual d/s ones he had had which was the only way he could have any kind of relationship.

His Psychiatrist, Dr. Flynn, actually makes clear on the points I have been going on with. He actually says he doesn't think Christian is a sadist/dominant, he basically says what I have been saying that the way he does his D/s is compensation for his screwed up background and he also clearly states that there is nothing abnormal about BD/SM. I suspect a lot of those criticizing the book never read that scene with Christian's shrink, it goes a long way towards dispelling the notion that the book is somehow anti BD/SM.

With Leila, the obsessive ex sub, the book is careful to highlight that her issues had nothing to do with BD/SM, her breakdown and such is explained and it had nothing to do with BD/SM at all.

Nowhere in the book does it state or imply that to be in BD/SM you have to be crazy or whatever, and the scene with his psychiatrist makes clear what the real issues are.

 

[Kurokami]

His Psychiatrist, Dr. Flynn, actually makes clear on the points I have been going on with. He actually says he doesn't think Christian is a sadist/dominant, he basically says what I have been saying that the way he does his D/s is compensation for his screwed up background and he also clearly states that there is nothing abnormal about BD/SM. I suspect a lot of those criticizing the book never read that scene with Christian's shrink, it goes a long way towards dispelling the notion that the book is somehow anti BD/SM.

So we've got one scene that says bdsm is okay, versus... the whole rest of the book that implies otherwise? Regardless of a single character saying one thing, the fact is that everything else enforces the negative stereotype. Am I supposed to be okay with that, because of that single instance in a three book series?

With Leila, the obsessive ex sub, the book is careful to highlight that her issues had nothing to do with BD/SM, her breakdown and such is explained and it had nothing to do with BD/SM at all.

I would hope so, but the reason I quote this is because I'm interested in your earlier assertion that the rest of Christian's subs being well adjusted mitigates the existence of yet another crazy kinkster in this book. I'd suggest that the mind is more used to remembering the extreme examples than the normal ones; the reader will remember Leila before they remember that Christian even had other subs.

Nowhere in the book does it state or imply that to be in BD/SM you have to be crazy or whatever, and the scene with his psychiatrist makes clear what the real issues are.

State outright? No. Probably it doesn't even imply it loudly enough to be especially damaging. But this is that rare piece of kinky media that actually makes it into the mainstream, and we ignore what it does have to say at our own peril. Like it or not, Fifty Shades is right now one of the larger informants on what bdsm is to the culture at large, and it's full of psychologically damaged bdsm practitioners, and healthy, healthy vanilla folk.

There's a very clear line drawn in the sand, and that's even leaving out the disturbing messages about bdsm itself that one might take from the book.

 

[Redkate]

His Psychiatrist, Dr. Flynn, actually makes clear on the points I have been going on with. He actually says he doesn't think Christian is a sadist/dominant, he basically says what I have been saying that the way he does his D/s is compensation for his screwed up background and he also clearly states that there is nothing abnormal about BD/SM. I suspect a lot of those criticizing the book never read that scene with Christian's shrink, it goes a long way towards dispelling the notion that the book is somehow anti BD/SM.

With Leila, the obsessive ex sub, the book is careful to highlight that her issues had nothing to do with BD/SM, her breakdown and such is explained and it had nothing to do with BD/SM at all.

Nowhere in the book does it state or imply that to be in BD/SM you have to be crazy or whatever, and the scene with his psychiatrist makes clear what the real issues are.

His shrink does think he is a sadist/Dom? Since when are they the same thing anyway???
Another example of misinformation peddled by this book that makes me angry.

The point of the article is that the characters in the book and their psychological damage are into BDSM cause they are fucked up, when in real life it's not the case as far as most modern studies go. The book directly indicates that every person Ana meets who is kinky is an emotional train wreck. Even the phsychatrist says that Grey shouldn't think of himself as a sadist and that Ana's brilliant vanilla interests are making him happy for the first time ever. Ergo, BDSM cannot make someone happy, so it mustn't be healthy.

Vanilla all the way, with some chic chips.

 

[HottieMama]

I have just struggled my way through Book 2, and I probably won't read book three. My biggest problem with the books so far, and I apologize if this has been mentioned but I don't have time to read every thread on this, is the fact that the female Dominant, ("Mrs. Robinson") is a child molester and a lunatic. Really??? There can't be a better representation of a Domme put in the book???

I firmly believe that most Domme's in this lifestyle work twice as hard for half as much respect, and things like this do not help any.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Cynic or realist?

'A tiny Australian publisher...' What, that would be maybe like a tiny newspaper in Adelaide was once the only thing that the world's biggest media mogul owned through an inheritance - according to the self-promoted legend of that tall tale.

These assertions about selling millions and preselling by word of mouth or via ebooks are ludicrous claims that the gullible only, take in. A bit like 'er, we didn't know we were bugging people's telephones! Honest!'

Of course for those who will never be convinced against their will, in absolute honesty I was NOT on the audit team when that Adelaide concern got into bed with a certain UK Prime Minister. But I was near enough to, to know what went on. Exactly, what went on. But I am sure you won't be interested.

50 SOG is not a great work, nor even a good one. But it is the one that appears in the Sunday papers review columns for some odd reason, not that I would know what that reason is.

However let me demonstrate to you what I do know. The world's highest selling (real) author of romance fiction for women today is Marion Chesney, and by a very long way. Someone writing under the name of Liz Carlysle, has been doing the SOG-type stuff successfully for years and years. (Harvey) Lowenstein and Assoc., and even Thomson Reuters have been endeavoring to keep track of actual print runs and independently-advised sales figures for a lot of years and they do business reporting for book publishers and media corporates but you have to pay several thousand a year to get the figures. I haven't been following that area of business for a few years now though so I have somewhat lost touch with the complete details although I still have access via friends. 50 SOG did not appear in the HK book trade shows ever, so I don't understand where all this 'pre-sales' stories has been generated from; certainly not from within the trade. The HK book fair is absolutely number one for selling and distribution deals outside of, as I said, internally-generated, media arrangements.

Don't put your lifesavings on the reverse of what I am saying.

 

[Kurokami]

I have just struggled my way through Book 2, and I probably won't read book three. My biggest problem with the books so far, and I apologize if this has been mentioned but I don't have time to read every thread on this, is the fact that the female Dominant, ("Mrs. Robinson") is a child molester and a lunatic. Really??? There can't be a better representation of a Domme put in the book???

I firmly believe that most Domme's in this lifestyle work twice as hard for half as much respect, and things like this do not help any.

Oh, just wait until you get to crazy stalker submissive, dude. There's not a single female representation in this book that gets anything nearing a fair treatment, though tellingly it only gets worse the kinkier they are...

 

[catalina_francisco]

And a lot more people love it. I could see hype selling a million copies of the first book, okay, but selling near or above 10 for all three books? No way. A lot of people have liked the books and have told others and that is why they ended up selling. Good writing is in the eye of the beholder, there are plenty of great books high school humanities teachers and college literature professors go ga ga over that I wouldn't line a birdcage with personally (as Mark Twain said about 'great books': "Great books are those books people think they should read, but don't want to")

Personally I think some of the criticism of 50 shades of Gray comes from the same people who think Huck Finn or the Merchant of Venice should be banned, they see things that are objectionable to them and don't look at the overall book. I am not saying SOG is a 'great book' or 'great literature', it was an okay book for a romance novel, just saying I think some have their needles out for reasons that don't make sense.

Everyone has a right to their opinion...hence my opinion it is incredibly badly written is as valid as your and others opinion it is not...but seems some who like it get upset when others don't. As to why it sold copies of the 2nd and 3rd books if it was not good...like others, I question the hype and also accredit a lot to people wanting to be seen as following the lastest in trend, but more so, most I have seen interviewed or writing about it (negatively and positively) have said they bought all 3 books at the same time. Anyway, glad you enjoyed it, just not something I imagine I will be able to read further than I have already. As to Huck Finn, was one of my favourite books from my youth and remains so.

Catalina

 

[njlauren]

His shrink does think he is a sadist/Dom? Since when are they the same thing anyway???
Another example of misinformation peddled by this book that makes me angry.

The point of the article is that the characters in the book and their psychological damage are into BDSM cause they are fucked up, when in real life it's not the case as far as most modern studies go. The book directly indicates that every person Ana meets who is kinky is an emotional train wreck. Even the phsychatrist says that Grey shouldn't think of himself as a sadist and that Ana's brilliant vanilla interests are making him happy for the first time ever. Ergo, BDSM cannot make someone happy, so it mustn't be healthy.

Vanilla all the way, with some chic chips.

The psychiatrist says he doesn't think Christian is a sadist or whatever, he says something to the effect that Christian is someone from a screwed up background who uses the BD/SM stuff as a means to try and have relationships (it is in book 2 I believe). The reason he tells Ana this is because she tells the psychiatrist she doesn't think it would work between her and Christian because he must need the BD/SM stuff that she cannot do, and he tells her that it isn't an innate need of Christian, that he isn't really a sadist (that is the doctors term for it, and I am pretty sure he is talking about being a dominant from the context of the section), directly telling her (and the reader) that Christian's use of BD/SM is because he is screwed up, not that BD/SM itself is screwed up......

The interesting part about all the screwed up characters is the writer makes it pretty clear they are fucked up and it has nothing to do with BD/SM (that is my take on it), she takes great pains to get into that. I think that people are putting words into her mouth that aren't there. I read the books (unlike more then a few of the critics, whom I suspect are going on what others say) and the BD/SM is not even the main theme of the book, and by the second book it almost disappears as the main context.

I have read a lot of the comments on places like Amazon and have talked to more then a few vanilla people who have read it, and I have not heard or read anyone say something like "see, all people into BD/SM are whack jobs". I deliberately ask people I see reading it what they think, and most of them seem to like (or hate it) as a romance, and I haven't heard anyone tell me "it is about these sick people who, you know, are into S/M" with any such implication (the only case of I saw of that were some evangelical shitheads from down south on one of the tv shows talking about the books, and quite frankly, they would say that, book or no book). Yes, it has been read by a lot of people and has influence, but if the impression this books gives of BD/SM is so bad, why the heck are people buying S/M gear and trying it? If this is for sickos, how come the (mostly women) who read it want to try it? If they believed it was for sick people, why would they try it? Doesn't gybe.

 

[njlauren]

'A tiny Australian publisher...' What, that would be maybe like a tiny newspaper in Adelaide was once the only thing that the world's biggest media mogul owned through an inheritance - according to the self-promoted legend of that tall tale.

These assertions about selling millions and preselling by word of mouth or via ebooks are ludicrous claims that the gullible only, take in. A bit like 'er, we didn't know we were bugging people's telephones! Honest!'

Of course for those who will never be convinced against their will, in absolute honesty I was NOT on the audit team when that Adelaide concern got into bed with a certain UK Prime Minister. But I was near enough to, to know what went on. Exactly, what went on. But I am sure you won't be interested.

50 SOG is not a great work, nor even a good one. But it is the one that appears in the Sunday papers review columns for some odd reason, not that I would know what that reason is.

However let me demonstrate to you what I do know. The world's highest selling (real) author of romance fiction for women today is Marion Chesney, and by a very long way. Someone writing under the name of Liz Carlysle, has been doing the SOG-type stuff successfully for years and years. (Harvey) Lowenstein and Assoc., and even Thomson Reuters have been endeavoring to keep track of actual print runs and independently-advised sales figures for a lot of years and they do business reporting for book publishers and media corporates but you have to pay several thousand a year to get the figures. I haven't been following that area of business for a few years now though so I have somewhat lost touch with the complete details although I still have access via friends. 50 SOG did not appear in the HK book trade shows ever, so I don't understand where all this 'pre-sales' stories has been generated from; certainly not from within the trade. The HK book fair is absolutely number one for selling and distribution deals outside of, as I said, internally-generated, media arrangements.

Don't put your lifesavings on the reverse of what I am saying.

The company who put out the e-book was a small publisher of e-books in Australia, it wasn't owned by Rupert Murdoch, it wasn't owned by a major media company, it basically is one step above self publishing or putting it on Smashwords. Arguing it is a cabal of the media/political establishment is like the people claiming the US never landed on the Moon or whatever. The hype about the books did not start happening until roughly early spring this year, the books were published last year to no fanfare, no reviews, and quietly built a fan base and sold a lot of copies before any media companies got involved, it was mostly word of mouth that was driving it. The reason a standard publisher got involved was because the book sold so well, and there is tracking for that, Amazon lists what the best selling books are in its e-book division) and these books were up there long before the hoopla started (and before accusing amazon of being in cahoots with the publishers, I suggest doing some reading, the publishers hate amazon, and they basically hate e-books, because it is killing their stranglehold on books getting published or trying to convince us we all should read Don Delilo or whoever the 'great artsy' author of the day is (no disrespect intended to Don Delilo, more aimed at the book publishers).

 

[Stella_Omega]

Everyone has a right to their opinion...hence my opinion it is incredibly badly written is as valid as your and others opinion it is not...but seems some who like it get upset when others don't. As to why it sold copies of the 2nd and 3rd books if it was not good...like others, I question the hype and also accredit a lot to people wanting to be seen as following the lastest in trend, but more so, most I have seen interviewed or writing about it (negatively and positively) have said they bought all 3 books at the same time. Anyway, glad you enjoyed it, just not something I imagine I will be able to read further than I have already. As to Huck Finn, was one of my favourite books from my youth and remains so.

Catalina

Well your opinion that it is badly written is one that I agree with. And your opinion that people like to be up on the latest trend is also something that I agree with, and I've said so.
Your opiinion that it's a bad thing, though... that's where my opinion digresses from yours. And likewise, your opinion that people who like the books only like them because they follow the hype-- my opinion is that you don't really have the knowledge and authority to say that as if it were a fact, Catalina.

 

[njlauren]

Everyone has a right to their opinion...hence my opinion it is incredibly badly written is as valid as your and others opinion it is not...but seems some who like it get upset when others don't. As to why it sold copies of the 2nd and 3rd books if it was not good...like others, I question the hype and also accredit a lot to people wanting to be seen as following the lastest in trend, but more so, most I have seen interviewed or writing about it (negatively and positively) have said they bought all 3 books at the same time. Anyway, glad you enjoyed it, just not something I imagine I will be able to read further than I have already. As to Huck Finn, was one of my favourite books from my youth and remains so.

Catalina

I thought the books were okay, I am not really pushing them as great books or whatever, what I object to is pushing the idea that these books are going to bring the disapproval of people onto BD/SM and people into it because of the nature of the characters or ripping the author because she didn't write 'authentically'. My point simply is the book was not meant to be about BD/SM, it is basically a romance novel based on a theme that also was part of Twilight, of a main character who in many ways doesn't see themselves as worth or love or being loved and being reformed and that is what happens in the book, Christian ends up getting reformed;not because he 'drops BD/SM' (he doesn't really, he gives up the D/S stuff which if the shrink was right, was not him, they still have the play), but because he learns to really love, to have a real relationship, to be touched, rather then the artificial crutch of his D/s contracts with women who looked like his mother. People project unto this book their anxieties about what people think about BD/SM, when quite frankly this book is not going to make the negative stereotypes worse and I think is some cases might open some people's minds.

I have helped support NCSF from its founding, I knew one of the people who helped found it, and want to know what is really damaging? It isn't some romance novel, no matter how many millions sold, it is in a lot of ignorant people who together cause problems. It is the morons in churches, who claim anything but making babies is a sin; it is the prosecutors and law enforcement types (liberal and conservative are equally to blame) who claim any such activity is automatically abuse, that people cannot consent to be whipped or whatever; it is in some of the more misguided feminist types who want to claim that consensual bd/sm is rape and abuse if a women is the bottom, and so forth. I heard Patrick Califia speak years ago (before he transitioned), and he said that leather dykes had a horrible time with the rest of the lesbian community, that they tended to see it as abuse, and like he had run ins with more then a few leaders of the women's movement (or womyn's movement for those who use that), that they were just as blind and stupid as many vanillas were. I am a lot more worried about that kind of stupidity then 50 shades of Gray is, and quite honestly, I think 50 shades will have more of a positive impact on sexuality; I don't think it is creating the next generation of BD/SM people, but I think it is opening some eyes; even if only a relatively small fraction of those reading the books come away changed, still is something.

As far as whether the book is well read or is a piece of trash, that I won't argue. I despise Wuthering Heights, lot of people claim it is a great book, including my sweetie *shrug* (well, okay, the version done with Semaphore Flags on "Monty Python" was great.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

hey hey steady on guys

There are these two words I like - sententious and tendentious. Never completely sure which is which.

All this sort of 'you don't have the experience and/or knowledge' stuff seems pretty s and/or t to me.

Why would anyone go to the extreme of playing the man like that? It doesn't strike me that there are or have been 'facts' dished out by anyone much here - for one thing, it is difficult to cut across the arguments from someone who is just as good at sticking words into people's mouths as I am!! I never said Murdoch WAS behind it - I said the situation was like things he did.

One very plain fact is that EL James is publicly acknowledged to be from the television and media industry. And I'll kinda rest my own case on that, really.

The differences of view here seem to be quite simple - one, there is something like a consensus that the books are not necessarily great literature. Two, I certainly dispute that the numbers stated by the promoters and media industry reviewers are anywhere near true - but I'm not going to argue tenaciously with people who disagree about that because I think their views in this respect are likely to be highly gratuitous in any case, meaning they won't have money in the game and seem just to be going along with obvious marketing hype AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED WHICH IS NOT THE SAME AS CLAIMING TO BE STATING A FACT. And, three, the big issue appears to be whether the works are damaging to genuine people (or to the public's view of them) involved very deeply in BDSM practices. That last area of difference has scope for a wide degree of interpretation according to personal tastes, one would think, and there seems to be little reason to table thump over that... All this business about theses and validation looks a bit like someone putting themselves up as an academic arbiter - but like a bearded Mullah on Pakistani Fatwa TV!! : ) Gotta larf at my own joke there.

 

[catalina_francisco]

LOL,well I forced myself to read the books, just so I had a better idea what they were. Hmm, have to say my view of them has not changed in a positive sense, and I still stand by what I have had to say.

On another note, did anyone else see the "Sex Story: Fifty Shades Of Grey" documentary? E L James was interviewed during it,(as was Pamela), and also many people from average folk to authors, celebrities, editors, doctors etc., and also a couple who have been into BDSM and the lifestyle before 50 Shades, and a couple of people who are Pro Dom/Domme. Was interesting, and did address the issues of how BDSM is portrayed in the book, the premise that having a bad childhood with abuse is a cause for enjoying or needing BDSM, and also showed other books which have been before with a BDSM theme as well as comparisons of the characters to those in other literary works such as Wuthering Heights. All up it was interesting. Google can perhaps be your friend for those who want to see it.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

And likewise, your opinion that people who like the books only like them because they follow the hype-- my opinion is that you don't really have the knowledge and authority to say that as if it were a fact, Catalina.

It is an opinion, but one not entirely based on fairy floss. There have been countless research studies done, some more well know than others, which demonstrate people are prone to following direction and/or doing something even when they really don't agree with it,and basically behaving in a way which goes with the majority despite their own instincts. For some it is about approval, for some it is about fear of standing up against someone or something when they feel intimidated, powerless or unsure; for some the reasons are different. It also is how good marketing often works. Even here there are examples where a poster may get a certain reaction from many until someone says the opposite, then you see a change around in attitude from some who previously posted. And this book has been read by many here and elsewhere because it was mentioned, they saw a story on it, they were told by a friend to read it etc., not because they saw it in a shop and thought it sounded a good book. It is human nature and works, especially when trying to sell a product. It has also been suggested E L James may have been so successful because she has a media background and links. Who knows? I know I have read many a better book, even with similar theme, more and better sex scenes, which have not taken off in a similar fashion.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

"more and better sex scenes" would prevent a book from taking off in the states entirely. It's because this is safe to the status quo, which is bad sex and female subservience (as long as it's not you know, too weird) that is being preserved here.

 

[catalina_francisco]

"more and better sex scenes" would prevent a book from taking off in the states entirely. It's because this is safe to the status quo, which is bad sex and female subservience (as long as it's not you know, too weird) that is being preserved here.

True...in the special I watched, someone did say it was doing well because all the naughty words/terms had been replaced with cleaner, more acceptable sex. Apart from the writing, I found it seriously lacking in sexual content. With all the hoohah you would expect it to be graphic and on every other page, but in reality it is 'cleansed and diluted' and not nearly as frequent as implied by some. Add to that the repetitive nature/writing of sex scenes and I still cannot find why it is such a hit. It was also suggested it was because the fans of it were not getting any/much sex and so this book was their replacement so to speak...maybe, never know.

Catalina

 

[Sharon_]

Good article.


As soon as my oldest sister(suburban trophy wife) claimed it to be "smokin' hot", I knew I would never touch it.

It came up under recommendations on Sharon_'s Amazon page, so I clicked on it...the reviews were all high, but I read the book blurb and...mheh.

Looked like a "C" grade book in that genre, at best.

I can't fathom all the hoopla when there are so many BETTER authors in that genre--Sophie Oaks, Lorelei James, Kresley Cole, Christine Feehan, Eve Langlais, Laurann Dohner...just loads of way better authors.

 

[IrisAlthea]

"more and better sex scenes" would prevent a book from taking off in the states entirely. It's because this is safe to the status quo, which is bad sex and female subservience (as long as it's not you know, too weird) that is being preserved here.

This.
And the reason it is taking off in Europe too, is because it gets a lot of press and promotion here, because it took off in the US.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It came up under recommendations on Sharon_'s Amazon page, so I clicked on it...the reviews were all high, but I read the book blurb and...mheh.

Looked like a "C" grade book in that genre, at best.

I can't fathom all the hoopla when there are so many BETTER authors in that genre--Sophie Oaks, Lorelei James, Kresley Cole, Christine Feehan, Eve Langlais, Laurann Dohner...just loads of way better authors.

Wow, thank you for the list!

 

[Sharon_]

Wow, thank you for the list!

I'm happy I could help

And, don't get me started, because I could go on
Since some of them only publish one per year, my goal is to have 365 favorite authors with their own folder on my Kindle so I always have something good to read...I think I'm up to about 30 authors.

Not all those authors I did list are sci-fi/fantasy, but they all fall in my current genre kick: world building, series, true love, happy ending with good smut.

 

[RjThoughts]

It came up under recommendations on Sharon_'s Amazon page, so I clicked on it...the reviews were all high, but I read the book blurb and...mheh.

Looked like a "C" grade book in that genre, at best.

I can't fathom all the hoopla when there are so many BETTER authors in that genre--Sophie Oaks, Lorelei James, Kresley Cole, Christine Feehan, Eve Langlais, Laurann Dohner...just loads of way better authors.

Wow, thank you for the list!

I second it. I've passed the list onto the women in my life, those disappointed in 50 and those that would love this genre's fiction

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm happy I could help

And, don't get me started, because I could go on
Since some of them only publish one per year, my goal is to have 365 favorite authors with their own folder on my Kindle so I always have something good to read...I think I'm up to about 30 authors.

Not all those authors I did list are sci-fi/fantasy, but they all fall in my current genre kick: world building, series, true love, happy ending with good smut.

You are so welcome to go on! Post the whole list! I'll pass it on to my livejournal friends.