Loving Relationships In D/s And The Challenges Of Redirecting The Vanilla Mind

[Bandit58]

I don't know if my mind was "redirected" or not, but this is my experience

I had no BDSM experience at all before I met Master Gil. In fact I had little sexual experience, although I'd been married for 23 years my ex was very conservative and after I left him I had 3 other partners who upped my experience a bit, but due to distance factors I didn't see them often.

I'd always had a submissive nature, and my curiosity had been aroused by becoming a member of Lit and doing heaps of reading. I'd also always had fantasies of being tied up and controlled in a sexual way. When Master and I began chatting and emailing, He gave me links to read and I found some on my own and felt like this was what I had been missing my whole life.

The difference I think is I was willing to explore and learn.....Master is a great teacher and counselled me through my doubts and feelings of thinking I was "weird" for liking pain play, spankings and other impliments of "torture" Our D/s has gradually moved outside the bedroom and I now serve as His carer. I feel like I belong now.....I'm happy

 

[Netzach]

I agree that you need to love people for who and what they are. I've always done that as much as people would allow me to.

However the only look for kinked people thing didn't work for me because I wasn't aware of what I truly needed until recently. I believe that is true for a lot of people, not just me. I wish I and everyone, knew themselves well enough before getting with others to find who and what they truly needed but from what I've seen that's pretty rare.

And people do change IMO. That is where the loyalty part comes in. Do you REALLY want to try to figure out how you can continue to be close to them in spite of changes that you maybe don't understand , that don't go along with the way you are or perhaps scare you? In my case, the answer is yes. Fortunately, in my husband's case, the answer is also yes, with regard to me.

It's nice we both happen to be able to acknowledge in each other's open and safe arms that we are kinky. Okay, one perhaps is more kinky than the other but yeah, we both accept the other as we are even as we continue to change and grow. Some people grow apart because they are perhaps not flexible enough for this. Thankfully we are growing even more together than ever.

I've always gotten up each day and said to myself how lucky I was to have this man in my life. In the past few years I've had even more reason to feel that way. I was in a relationship with someone else that tried to tear me down. I tried to give him just as much as I have tried to give my husband but he blocked me in so many ways. Now I'm with someone that not only lets me give him what I want to. He enjoys what I do give him and is happy with it. He was happy with it when we first got together. He has been happy with each stage and each change too.

He has given me the freedom to be who I truly want to be. I've done the same for him. The reason for all this is that he had the vision of a love that wasn't competitive but cooperative. It was quite a different vision from what I'd always seen. He has been a revelation to me in so many ways. He amazes me in this and so many other ways. That's not say we don't get pissed at each other from time to time or our lives are perfect. *L*

Fury

You are with someone who is partially able to get it. Or at least willing to get that you need it. Someone who may be a little nonplussed, but probably has some fantasies of his own that you may not be into, someone with whom workable compromise is a possibility.

I got together when I was 19 with someone who just - is - not - wired - that -way

Actually now that we're apart I see him swat his new girfriend on the ass, and I think we probably had way more in common than he knew. He just got there 10 years later than I did. Or maybe not, and I read in too much. He's a control freak though, as much as I am, no doubt. I'm glad it went to crap before we did babies or houses or papers or any of that, much as I think he's a great guy.

There was no workable partway point. None in sight. Because if not a Dom/top himself the man is really vanilla. No fantasies that revolve around capture or tying or quid-pro-quo strip poker or bets lost. Vanilla. It happens.

 

[Netzach]

Why not start a thread called: "Loving Relationships And The Challenges Of Redirecting The Dominant Mind" ?

Does anyone have suggestions on how to induce me, RJ, Geoff, Francisco, etc. to make dinner according to certain specifications at the same time everyday, or kneel on the floor on command?

How about a thread called: "Loving Relationships And The Challenges Of Redirecting The Sadist's Mind" ?

Does anyone have suggestions on how to get the guys mentioned above to consent to being tied up & spanked, flogged, blindfolded, humiliated, etc., on a regular basis?

I agree that people change over time in a relationship, and I further agree that loving partners make an effort to accomodate each other's needs. But there are limits to these concepts, clearly.

I would consider it unreasonable to be asked to alter my orientation as a Dominant and a sadist. Therefore, I consider it unreasonable to ask another person to alter their own orientation as well.

However....

I do believe that there are some people whose Dominant, submissive, or SM natures may be sparked, nourished and brought to life if given appropriate time and strategies. And in these cases, I find the following analogy to be a very good one.

Niiiice I've never seen it framed this way. But it's really sweet.

I reiterate. If they're coming along, they're not vanilla.

Or they are doing it just to keep the rel. and make the partner happy.

Which is *maybe* kind of submissive, but it's more likely not going to work.

 

[Netzach]

As for the relationship, it was 7 years long. Four were good. Then I started really getting squirrely. I tried everything.

Some of it good, some of it remarkably underhanded and wrong, some of it more painful to me than anything I've ever done since. But I can say I tried everything, at the end of the day, before I chose myself over the idea of what was and might have been.

 

[FurryFury]

You are with someone who is partially able to get it. Or at least willing to get that you need it. Someone who may be a little nonplussed, but probably has some fantasies of his own that you may not be into, someone with whom workable compromise is a possibility.

I got together when I was 19 with someone who just - is - not - wired - that -way

Actually now that we're apart I see him swat his new girfriend on the ass, and I think we probably had way more in common than he knew. He just got there 10 years later than I did. Or maybe not, and I read in too much. He's a control freak though, as much as I am, no doubt. I'm glad it went to crap before we did babies or houses or papers or any of that, much as I think he's a great guy.

There was no workable partway point. None in sight. Because if not a Dom/top himself the man is really vanilla. No fantasies that revolve around capture or tying or quid-pro-quo strip poker or bets lost. Vanilla. It happens.

Hey, I get that not everyone has the same options as we do. I agree it was good that you didn't do babies and such before y'all found out. Damn 19 is young! Wow!

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

I don't know if my mind was "redirected" or not, but this is my experience

I had no BDSM experience at all before I met Master Gil. In fact I had little sexual experience, although I'd been married for 23 years my ex was very conservative and after I left him I had 3 other partners who upped my experience a bit, but due to distance factors I didn't see them often.

I'd always had a submissive nature, and my curiosity had been aroused by becoming a member of Lit and doing heaps of reading. I'd also always had fantasies of being tied up and controlled in a sexual way. When Master and I began chatting and emailing, He gave me links to read and I found some on my own and felt like this was what I had been missing my whole life.

The difference I think is I was willing to explore and learn.....Master is a great teacher and counselled me through my doubts and feelings of thinking I was "weird" for liking pain play, spankings and other impliments of "torture" Our D/s has gradually moved outside the bedroom and I now serve as His carer. I feel like I belong now.....I'm happy

That's so wonderful for you both! I do envy you guys and many of the people here at Lit.

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

I agree with everything you say, Cat. I actually don't regret my previous marriages. The bonds were strong & the relationships successful in many ways, yet I do regret being made to feel "wrong" for my desires throughout all those years. To be honest, I must admit that I feel the loss of most of my ättractive" years most keenly, D/s as we practice it being quite visual. At 52 I do feel the years apon me.

RJ, I make my comments from my own experience & life, as you do yours. It has been my experience that although some vanilla partners are prepared to do a bit of role play ie pretend to be a Dom for the night, it is a short lived interest with a specific goal & is not satisfying. The mindset, which they don't understand (nor should they need to as it's not their thing) is missing.

I actually knew, & stated honestly at the beginning of my 20 year relationship, that I was submissive & it was my misfortune that my husband pretended the role for about 6 months until he lost interest in it. For him, it was a bit different & quite hot until he couldn't be bothered anymore. As it was not part of his real makeup he didn't understand how it was so important to me. It then became my problem, it being something wrong with me.

I write these things not to have a go at you in any way, but because I truly believe that a vanilla partner is just that & no matter how carefully you try to guide them into what you want from the relationship, or for how long, it's just not going to happen. It's either there or not.

I didn't lose everything. I chose to give up a very comfortable lifestyle to be myself. I now have everything & more with my new husband & Dom & am deeply satisfied for possibly the first time in my life.

That would be so maddening!

I'm glad you have found what makes you happy with someone who feels the same way now!

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

I actually don't see the topic of this thread to have been about how to make a vanilla become a sub or Dom/me, or how to deceive them into playing that role without their knowledge, but more so about how after consenting to and accepting that change in a previously vanilla relationship you work through long ingrained vanilla thought patterns and behaviours to become more consciously the sub or Dom/me you have taken the responsibility of being.

Catalina

There are all kinds of ways to interpret this thread's titles. I can see both yours and others such as RJ's as being reasonable interpretations.

I do also agree certain things in the mind should be reworked, a new path forged to comfortably change behaviors. This can be very slow and hard work for anyone that truly wants change, IMO.

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

To me, the term "vanilla person" means someone who is non-kinky. And a non-kinky person is someone who is *not* aroused/fulfilled/satisfied by either D/s or SM.

The idea of attempting to "redirect the vanilla mind" is therefore an idea that I consider to be totally unreasonable, not to mention futile.

However, I do know that there are latent kinksters out there, by which I mean people who do in fact have Dominant, submissive, sadistic, or masochistic tendencies, but are either: (a) unaware that others actually practice pain play & power play, or (b) inexperienced with the same.

To those who are in a relationship with a person whom they suspect might be a latent kinkster, the most important piece of advice I would give is to throw away the script. As in....

Frankly, I find this goal difficult to understand.

Who cares about the label?

What's important to me is behavior. I tell her what to do, and she does it. *That* is D/s, to me.

Don't focus on fitting your relationship into the late 20th century BDSM culture box. Be your own man (or woman). Make up your own customs, words of significance, and ways of exerting control that meet your needs and those of the individual whom you are trying to lead into the world of D/s and/or SM.

This is going to make things much easier (and possibly more meaningful) for both of you. Because, instead of attempting to embrace the traditions that worked for others, you have the opportunity to create traditions that best fit your own unique relationship.

That sounds like consensual pain play and power play to me.

Not scripted, but I consider that to be a good thing.

Not advanced, but everyone starts somewhere.

Congratulations, RJ. I think that's great.

Great post!

I agree with this post of yours, as well!

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

Some things I've read on this thread have me wondering.

Since when is it not D/s when two people share the sorts of things RJ mentioned?

Since when is one not a Dominant unless they have a sub who says,
I am ________'s sub?

Since when is one not a submissive if they know in their heart they are?

Doesn't BDSM cover a wide range of things that can be done in a plethora of ways?

It almost seems that someone has been changing the definitions around here. Definitions that I thought most agreed on.

Of course, what matters to me most is what I believe and feel in my heart and soul. It's always nice and cozy when others agree. Agree or not though, I am what I am, do what I do and I'm pretty comfortable with it these days.

Fury

 

[incubus'_sub]

I see the topic as being one of the most asked (but in different ways) questions on this board. Basically, it all boils down to "I'm into D/s, BDSM but my partner, whom I otherwise love, is not. How can I make it happen?

Thing is, you can't, any more than you can make a straight person gay or vice versa. It IS either there or not.

There are many committed partners who will make an attempt to role play to satisfy their loved one, but unless they "get" it, it's ultimately unsatisfying, to both partners. There are others who will play the part for reasons of their own. My former husband wanted me, so.... RJ, it's possible that your wife is allowing this play simply to keep you as you issued a form of ultimatum. It really means nothing in a D/s context, it's simply a way to a means for them. That's not wrong either. They have a right to be turned on by whatever does turn them on & most imaginative people will "have a go" at kinky sex anyway, because it's fun. But for them it's importance is not the mindset, but the result - keeping their partner.

I decided that this was not enough for me, but it may well be acceptable to others.

The slow, years long, patient attitude is possibly to be commended, but, a total lack of interest should be evident in the other partner fairly quickly, as will be a latent desire to explore further. Continuing for years after the truth is known is futile, depressing & frustrating. It is my opinion that an ultimatum given may postpone the inevitable parting of the ways, but not divert it.

Then, the other partner may well issue an ultimatum of their own, along the lines of JMohegan's post & demand that all BDSM stuff cease immediately or they will leave. Back to square one - leave or stay.

I don't pretend to know the answers, just the answer that was right for me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Some things I've read on this thread have me wondering.

Since when is it not D/s when two people share the sorts of things RJ mentioned?

Since when is one not a Dominant unless they have a sub who says,
I am ________'s sub?

Since when is one not a submissive if they know in their heart they are?

Doesn't BDSM cover a wide range of things that can be done in a plethora of ways?

It almost seems that someone has been changing the definitions around here. Definitions that I thought most agreed on.

Of course, what matters to me most is what I believe and feel in my heart and soul. It's always nice and cozy when others agree. Agree or not though, I am what I am, do what I do and I'm pretty comfortable with it these days.

Fury

No Furry, not changing definitions, but one of the mainstays I have always been told is pretty much standard is consent. If a partner does not consent to be someone's sub or vv (especially in circumstances where they have actually said they will not have anything to do with it), then for me you can role play by yourself or pretend everything is wonderful as much as you like but it ain't D/s without that little word consent. Some of the things RJ mentions may look like D/s, but if his partner has at some point said they do not want to be a sub and do not want to have that in their lives, then it could just as easily be interpreted as abuse because the consent is missing, and the way to get those acts done are not through open and informed agreement but omission to mention how it is being interpreted by RJ.

For instance, in my previous vanilla marriage I participated in things which were kinky and could be interpreted as D/s by someone who was hungering to see it that way, but in no way was it D/s because I in no way ever submitted to that man in any way which could be interpreted as D/s. Of course the rape within that marriage could also be called D/s by someone grasping at straws because I didn't report it, didn't tell anyone, and stayed with him for a couple of more years...but for me, even in hindsight it was not D/s, it was abuse, and the reason I kept my mouth shut and stayed was because I didn't know what else to do at that point, I was intimidated, and I foolishly hoped I could find some way to save the marriage for the sake of our children so I let many things slide to try and create a harmony, false as it was. These are just some of the reasons a person might go along with being told to stand on a stoop for x amount of time after saying they did not want to be a sub...not out of consent or a desire to do so, but more as a means to try and create harmony while possibly trying to find a way out of what they see or maybe don't see happening despite their previous objections, or out of a being worn down to a point where it seems better to comply, or out of a desire to save the marriage at any cost to themselves and their spirit, or out of ignorance of where the other's head is at, or simply because it seems like a bit of harmless fun and once again they are unaware of how it is being interpreted and explained to others. The nipple thing.....well I have done and had such things done in vanilla relationships as playing around, not consensual D/s....if I had been asked to submit and said yes and that took place, I might have seen it as D/s.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

There are all kinds of ways to interpret this thread's titles.


Fury

Actually I didn't go by the title, I read the opening post and the topic raised there. Titles can be very deceptive and/or subjective.

Catalina

 

[FurryFury]

Actually I didn't go by the title, I read the opening post and the topic raised there. Titles can be very deceptive and/or subjective.

Catalina

Well sure, that too.

I'm surprised that you are assuming non consent in the cases RJ stated above.

Fury

 

[RJMasters]

Yep that's me...the abusive asshole.

I managed to tell my wife that this morning just as she was walking out the door. I said, hey "did you know that I am an abussive asshole?" and she replied..."yeah sometimes but mostly your a controlling prick, which is one of the reasons why I married you." She then sweetly gave me a kiss on the cheek and left.


Of all the possible sceneros to choose from in how to see or view what is happening with me and my relationship, I find it interestesing that Cat basical says its abusive because there isn't consent, and Inc says it isn't real that she is probably just pretending in order to keep me.

So basically if its true then I am an abusive asshole, and if its not true then I am a sad deluded man.

The two of you should really think about joining a pep squad or something cuz the love I am feeling in my corner of the universe from you two is mmmmmmmmmmm mmmm Cambell soup good.

I think I am going to choose to believe that:

1. I am not an abusive asshole. I have known myself for a long time now and being an abusive asshole doesn't seem to fit.

2. I have also known my wife for a long time and neather of you two do. So I think I am gonna trust my judgement on that one too, oh and the fact that we talk about her feelings and thoughts regularly helps me to make that assessment.

I could go on and explain why both of you are wrong but in truth is matters little doesn't it as your going to believe what you want to anyways and I am the one who has to live in the relaity of "what is" in my own world so it doesn't matter what either of you two think or say.

So with that I will wish you both well.

 

[Netzach]

What are her feelings and thoughts? I'm just curious. How they've evolved or haven't. Clearly she's at least turned on by some of this stuff.

I think most people have the ability to get turned on when a partner who's been sexually distanced is taking an interest. I got turned on when the ex grudgingly agreed to top me, and we all know that's a vicarious sort of approximation of what really gets me going.

It doesn't make me a submissive.

 

[bronntanas]

Some things I've read on this thread have me wondering.

Since when is it not D/s when two people share the sorts of things RJ mentioned?

Since when is one not a Dominant unless they have a sub who says,
I am ________'s sub?

Since when is one not a submissive if they know in their heart they are?

Doesn't BDSM cover a wide range of things that can be done in a plethora of ways?

It almost seems that someone has been changing the definitions around here. Definitions that I thought most agreed on.

Of course, what matters to me most is what I believe and feel in my heart and soul. It's always nice and cozy when others agree. Agree or not though, I am what I am, do what I do and I'm pretty comfortable with it these days.

Fury

Some food for thought...

My parents are, on the surface, a total D/s thing. My mother is a very strong woman in her own right, but she defers to him in everything. In many ways, I feel she is the stronger half: she's borne 9 kids, done most of the raising, most of the day to day work, most of the day to day decision-making. Yet his word is law. She no longer works outside of the home, but when she did, she did it cheerfully and happily because he wanted her to. But if she'd had a choice, she wouldn't have done it. Looking at their relationship, it bears a striking resemblance to that of D's mariposa and D. Yet my parents are not a D/s couple. They would be horrified if forced to look at their relationship through kink colored glasses. I don't want to ponder their sex life too much (EEEEW!! That's my mom and dad.) but I do know that it's loud and proud and unashamed and prolific (9 kids! 9!) But again, they're not D/s. Why not?

D and mariposa have a lot of similarities to my parents marriage. She submits to him in everything. She works outside of the home, hates it for the most part, (she's terribly shy offline), but does it cheerfully and in the best way she can. Comes home on payday and hands over the majority of her check to D. This sort of thing happens in many households, including my parents, and it's not D/s thing. But for D and mariposa, it is.

So what's the difference?

I think it's acknowledgment in your heart what you are, that you are a submissive or a Dominant and structuring your lives accordingly. This is why I was a submissive even when I didn't have a Dominant. Now I'm changing a bit, feeling a bit switchy towards some females that I know, and I think, based on my fantasies and desires, that I'm growing into a switch. Dominance and submission are internal, private callings, and I don't think you can say that a person is or isn't based on their current relationship status. It depends how they, themselves identify. I can't call my mum a submissive, because in her heart, she isn't. But I can't say mariposa is not, even though in her job, she has lots of authority and has to really be aggressive in some areas of performance, because she knows that she is.

 

[FurryFury]

Some food for thought...

My parents are, on the surface, a total D/s thing. My mother is a very strong woman in her own right, but she defers to him in everything. In many ways, I feel she is the stronger half: she's borne 9 kids, done most of the raising, most of the day to day work, most of the day to day decision-making. Yet his word is law. She no longer works outside of the home, but when she did, she did it cheerfully and happily because he wanted her to. But if she'd had a choice, she wouldn't have done it. Looking at their relationship, it bears a striking resemblance to that of D's mariposa and D. Yet my parents are not a D/s couple. They would be horrified if forced to look at their relationship through kink colored glasses. I don't want to ponder their sex life too much (EEEEW!! That's my mom and dad.) but I do know that it's loud and proud and unashamed and prolific (9 kids! 9!) But again, they're not D/s. Why not?

D and mariposa have a lot of similarities to my parents marriage. She submits to him in everything. She works outside of the home, hates it for the most part, (she's terribly shy offline), but does it cheerfully and in the best way she can. Comes home on payday and hands over the majority of her check to D. This sort of thing happens in many households, including my parents, and it's not D/s thing. But for D and mariposa, it is.

So what's the difference?

I think it's acknowledgment in your heart what you are, that you are a submissive or a Dominant and structuring your lives accordingly. This is why I was a submissive even when I didn't have a Dominant. Now I'm changing a bit, feeling a bit switchy towards some females that I know, and I think, based on my fantasies and desires, that I'm growing into a switch. Dominance and submission are internal, private callings, and I don't think you can say that a person is or isn't based on their current relationship status. It depends how they, themselves identify. I can't call my mum a submissive, because in her heart, she isn't. But I can't say mariposa is not, even though in her job, she has lots of authority and has to really be aggressive in some areas of performance, because she knows that she is.

I agree with your excellent post Bronntanas! I must say I see submissive and Dominant qualities in people all the time depending on the situation. My kids and I have discussed this at length mostly minus the sexual part. I am one of the most dominant people in most situations that I know. Yet, at heart and certainly sexually I am submissive. In addition I am pretty kinky as well.

It really doesn't matter if I recognize all this because this is just who I am. For many years I didn't see any ot it inside me but that didn't change who I was. What does matter now to me, is that I can not only be conscious of all this, but more accepting of me. Now I'm moving forward in a purposeful manner on these things that I only wish I had been more consciously aware of earlier.

I suppose with the mind set I have now I see people in terms of D/s (often leaving out sex entirely and just seeing them in the arena's I know them from) and kinked vrs non kinked. It's just a new way I have of analyzing people. I'm rarely wrong on the kinked vrs non but often I am on the sub vrs Dom areas. That's because, I believe, that the projection and function of who people are in their outward lives is often diametrically opposed to how they are in the sexual arena. I have used my views of some of them to broach kink and BDSM subjects with some of my long time acquaintances. So far I've never been met with horror when I do so. It seems most of my buds are open minded and at least somewhat kinky. *L*

So I guess I do think of my family, friends and relatives in terms of how dominant and how submissive they seem. This often helps me understand the choices they've made in life.

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

It occurred to me the other day that one reason why my husband might be more comfortable lately is that he has been watching and waiting for some time. I suspect he wanted to see how embracing these things would change me. Change should be somewhat scary for most. I suspect he wondered, would I find someone else to run to? Would I become so obsessed that I went to groups all the time and neglected him or our family? That sort of thing.

What he has found is that it hasn't changed how I feel about him except to strengthen our bond as a loving couple. Though we have both changed in some ways, yet, we are both largely the same. I still respect, support and adore him. He does the same for me. After a year or two, I think he's come to see all that, which has allowed him to relax and enjoy more of the kinky elements he wants to.

Just a thought,

Fury

 

[RJMasters]

Just a thought,

And a good thought at that.

 

[RJMasters]

What are her feelings and thoughts? I'm just curious. How they've evolved or haven't. Clearly she's at least turned on by some of this stuff.

I think most people have the ability to get turned on when a partner who's been sexually distanced is taking an interest. I got turned on when the ex grudgingly agreed to top me, and we all know that's a vicarious sort of approximation of what really gets me going.

It doesn't make me a submissive.

Though I am sure your question is a sincere one as no doubt others intentions are as well, RJ-pingpong is not a sport I like to play.

When I first posted to this thread I did so with the intention of sharing from my perspective and my experience. I didn't do it so that I could engage in a defense of who I am or defend the experiences that are my relationship.

I know that from past postingsI have opened the door, and many are just commenting or even questioning from what I hope to be a sincere persepctive based on what they have seen.

Two things however I have learned, is that one, continuing to provide fuel for the fire no matter how well intentioned is not something I am going to do, and two, however you want to look at or define my own personal experiences...they don't seem to fit or match up with what other people's experiences are. Perhaps in someways this could be just semantic type differences and/or there is real defining differences. Point is...there are other ways in which I can participate in the community here in a public way.

If you would care to discuss it privately I have no objection is doing so giving you the choice to either pursue it further or just drop it. Whatever you choose, thanks for asking.

 

[Netzach]

I genuinely was curious about her reactions to it all. I balk at characterizing my relationship with M as D/s mainly because if I said "and he does whatever I say" it would be a total miscategorization of what's going on. Complete. Does he warm up to what I want nine times in ten? Yes. Does he challenge himself and go out of his way to make me happy? Yes. If there's a disconnect in the *degree* to which he sees this as being a good husband and I see it as part of his submissive orientation, well frankly I don't especially care, as long as the amount of disconnect isn't so huge that we're not functional and we're not happy and we're not listening to one another when we do discuss the matter.

 

[FurryFury]

Netzach,

I'm certain your relationship is far more D/s than mine. I consider us a kinky couple who sometimes top one another but that's about as far as it goes with us. I'd like more. It's not likely to ever happen though. I've come to terms with that.

Fury

 

[master_dstar]

IMO...vanilla think

I don’t know what the protocol is here otherwise I would direct you to a blog I have on another site but IMO it is ALL about vanilla-think. Two of the primary concepts to come to understand and then over come and finally get beyond are the difference between want and need and submission and surrender. Now I should say I am only interested in slaves and not subs however the under laying principles are the same.

The flowing are reposts that might give you some things to think about. They don’t address the how but rather the sign posts along the path, there are many tools and one of the greatest is for the Dominant to understand the difference between control and Domination.

Enjoy your wonder-filled day

MDS What is this that flows in U/us ?

How can W/we fully see O/ourselves in a time when right and wrong are not to be seen, to be condemned because we might hurt the “feelings” of those which are wrong and those whom are right must be punished? When simple disagreement becomes hate? When compound-culture becomes a narrow prison instead of liberation into the greater congregation? Do we not truly live in a time when pigs have wings? That makes U/us, makes U/us right or wrong?

What flows in us is our blood, the very wine of life. That which keeps us awake and warm. The drawing of it a very powerful symbol. Bad enough by accident and sacred if by choice. Sacred because we are handling the “donors” very life. Quite the responsibility for those who take it seriously and a yet another mere hedonistic thrill for those so less inclined.

What is it that flows in us? Our peak experiences. The knowing the outcome before it happens not because of your “plans” because there is no reason it should be what you know. Not all peak experiences are physical. There in lies the lack in the mere hedonistic goal; more and more of the body, yet MORE! More sex, more food, more titillation of the 5 weaker senses, more pleasure, more pain; wanting it all! Wanting it unremittingly, ceaselessly, and yet never enough. Wanting wanting wanting. Wanting only gets in the way of the true slave and as luck would have it the True Owner. Yes as a stage on the way the monsters of the darker desires are intensely arousing, beautiful even sublime, but as the old joke goes; Twenty minuets later you are still hungry; left wanting more.

Those wonderful monsters, they tear and crush and mangle all your ethics, your harmony, your very soul. Yes, there He is the ancient destroyer of your universe. White-blue hot fireman hanging you up to dry on His cross. Nothing will be allowed to remain of you but ashes! The Godly role of The Destroyer.

How then is it you still want more and more and more? Is it because this is where you belong, crave to live every micro second or is it because something is still missing? Is this rising up from your want or need?

If it is from your wants when your Dark Angel reaches out and takes you will still want to be special. The one who is the lowest, the most degraded the most able to take the pain and turn it into pleasure to fulfill your wants by using His hand to beat yourself with. You Ego will reach out and oh so subtly “guide” His hand. He knows this or not. He changes this or relishes it mistaking your guidance for submission. His Own Ego in His way. Control verses Domination. Submission in the fulfillment of Ego satisfaction is not slaveness, enslavement. It is Topping from the bottom.

If it is from your wants when your Dark Angel reaches out and takes you will not be special. you will be Egoless, the pure state of true slaveness, enslavement. This is surrender; totally subsumed to the will and mind of its Master, one understands its true position, its place in the Natural Order of Things. The step that is required is losing ones ignorance that fiend within her; Ego. There is no need to be special as a matter of fact it is this wanting that will forever keep one needing more and more. Until the slave accepts His flaming sword held high over her she will want and want and want.

And what of this sword? It is His differential of judgments; His insight, His needs. The slave must totally empty its mind and heart so the Master may re-fill it with Him. HE is special not her. She is His vessel, His tool, His finger, His foot, His “will”. There is no more and more for her because there is only His eternal now.


The slave who always craves more who in fact Tops from the bottom does not want to face what is truly broken in her. The true slave is not uncompassionate, rude, publicly in vanillas face, of forever in need of drawing attention to her, by act or speech. she is calm and at peace and has no needs except for His. She waits, she is always ready, she is in quietude and she is empty. The paradox is she isn’t special because that makes her common.

Hurry away from wanting it will become eternal. Hurry toward His needs, it is forever. Eternal is outside of time, forever is enslavement.


MDS From a slave who has been TPE since 18;

“Today, over 35 years later, slave has learned a valuable lesson. slave has learned that as Masters property, it is essentially WRONG for slave to continue emotionally beating itself up for any reason after HE has corrected or moved past its error. In all actuality, to continue to do so is a form of disrespect. It is saying that the correction or punishment HE has given, or the choices He made in regards to the error, is not adequate. It is saying "i know YOU punished me but it was not enough... so i'm going to punish myself for a while and make myself even more miserable, even though YOU have already moved on." In essence, this is a form of topping from the bottom. Quite an epiphany for one in this life for so many years...
Up until today, slave never looked at it that way- particularly as a form of major disrespect, which dismayed it to no end. In retrospect, it saw how its inability to move past the mistake also affected slave's service to Him- so not only was this indicating that it was not respecting HIS decision to deal with the issue and move on... but slave was then making myself miserable and as a result, its service to HIM was not as focused as it should be. slave has not been focused all day... it has been in extreme error of judgment.

In addition, slave was so busy feeling crushed that it does not believe that it even met HIS level of acceptable- that at times it was difficult to learn the lesson that was being taught. As property, a slave does NOT have the right or luxury to wallow in guilt- unless its Master tells it to.

Most importantly, slave has learned that it was not EVER its measuring stick that it was to go by, but HIS. Today, slave learned it's not its place to punish itself over and beyond what Master states is appropriate for punishment. Although difficult and lengthy in the learning, this lesson will make its enslavement so much easier and less of a struggle.

Thank YOU for the lesson”


MDS “…in the land of Nod, East of Eden.”
Torah; Book of genesis

Culture is always fascinating; the seemingly simple differences can have enormous impacts.

“The West loves life. We love death”
OBL

This shocks many in the West yet we love abortion; I say love due to the yearly numbers involved. As if it is a mere inconvenience or simple birth control. In all cases cultural relativism leads to an inability to judge right from wrong. I’m not about to declare which is which since there are so many variations but within a specific social order this is in fact the end result which in turn leads to a kind of “decadence which sees “movements” as speaking for everyone; Everybody’s' doing it!

This of course is hardly relegated to only the vanilla world. The changes within what is the so-called “scene” are enormous and have changed it from A-Z. I was speaking to Someone recently and mentioned when several years ago I had done quite a bit of “Postal Training” as well versed as They were They had no idea what I was talking about lol I dug out a few envelopes I still had for some reason or another and was amused to see the postmarks were only from the late 1980’s.

The discussion ranged wide and far after that such as when You were going to “play” it wasn’t called that, it was called going to “work”. And how narrow, with very good reason, definitions were; Mistress, slave, Top, bottom and NO limits LOL, etc.! If you had the guts to call yourself a slave you had better understand WHAT that meant. A boot boy was just that and had better be prepared to do a lot more than polishing and licking, be prepared to open up for that boot.

I was then told about a slave lamenting how terrible “real slaves”- think the Civil War : - ) - had it. Hmm a Couple of Us happen to know the history there that was rather amusing given what this slave claims to need and be adept at.

Now don’t get me wrong I have no interest here in the oppression of nostalgia it is just an interesting thing to observe the frequent disregard and put downs of the “Old Guard” by the so-called New Guard. This was in fact where the conversation started.

Such is the rise of the vanilla Ds/Bd/Sm crowd. Things are only what they are now, no prior history and if it is there it is of course wrong headed because all has just been discovered by the current group and therefore no need to historicize what we are doing now. Vanilla think at its best.

There is a danger IMO of cultural defensiveness, closing rank against the outside. This makes the outsiders believe that is what most believe. But there is a trick in there for those inside the group as well. The desire to oppose the prior makes the group the new oppressor thus becoming the very force which it claims to be different from. Minority groups (diversity) allows for the denial of identity in a broader sense; the trap of communal separations (censorship). Self stifling of the minority group.

Why am I saying minority when speaking about the “scene?” Because W/we are LOL Hell people who have a home computer for only personal use are still a minority LOL of the general population.

Believe it or not things actually seem to have been more Pan-sexual than they are now. History allows U/us to see how the story evolves, was created and that is an important element in real reformation, much more so than seeing Sm clothing in fashion mags of coy references to it in movies or the questionable premise of the NET has allowed it to become more open and “mainstream.” There is a down side to mainstreaming just as there is an upside to remaining in a lower profile. I think it’s called Safe Sane and Consensual and Tops claiming to be Masters and subs claiming to be natural born “slaves”; the nouveau riche of Ds/Bd/Sm.

“Every fulfillment of our wishes won from the world is only like the alms that keep the beggar alive today so that he may starve again tomorrow. Resignation, on the other hand, is like the inherited estate; it frees its owner from all care and anxiety forever.’
Schopenhauer

 

[incubus'_sub]

Whew !! that's a lot of words & combined with that bloody silly Y/you stuff I found I found it a pain to read. Didn't actually make a lot of sense either, sorry.