Married But Frustrated in West Michigan

I don't care if I'm sounding naive or puritanical. (both of which sometimes everyone is)

But you got married to your spouses becuase:

*you loved them & wanted to be together for ever & a day :)

*it was convenient.

*you were brought up with the belief that if you didn't run out & get hitched, & have your 2.5 children like all your friends & neighbors you just weren't a good American

*you were afraid of being alone

*other.

But well you bit the bullet & you did that thru sickness & health, Good Times & Bad..and now, the sex is unfullfilling.

I'm not Dr. Ruth, or anyone like that. But I was always under the impression that it takes 2 people to have sex..(if you're intrested in haveing it with a partner, perferbably your spouse if that's who you're married to, & so on & so forth)

So if you don't like your sex life, than 'you're' partially to blame. There's nothing stopping you from sitting down & talking to your mate. Just they way you don't think 'they' know about your needs/desires/wishes. How are you actually 'sure' you know what there's are? You haven't really talked about it.

To the poster who's wife was sporadic before the baby, and now you won't get it till he's graduated from college. Does she have 'the baby blues'? It's got a real technical term that I don't feel like remembering now. But if she's got them, and has packed on some pounds she can't seem to shake, along w/ her hormones being outta wack. Chances are you need Couciling or She might need temporary Medical Treament/Medication.

The one poster who's husband is a Minute man (k, you said 6, but close e-damn-nough :)) Has he always had a problem keeping the horses in the stables? You know how there are Keagle (I think I spelled it wrong, but it's said the same way the dog breed sounds, but w/ a 'K') muscle excersises for women? Well try something like the Kama Sutra. It has excersises in it for Men to learn more endurance.
Did you try a cock ring? Heard they're supposed to be prolong your encounters, or perhaps some numbing cream, so long as he's not allergic to it, on the head of his cock, gives you more time to thrust, till he's ready to deploy tha boys. (I'm not selling the stuff, but if I remember right, Kama Sutra the actual product has a balm to use..dont' remember the name..but guys & gals they have one that's 'mint' it actually hieghtens youre nerve endings. so your lover won't let you do something wacky that's new. put a dollop on the tip of your tongue, or fingertip as your going down or strokeing. Sometimes you need to do a wee finangaling, but once they try it, chances are if you/they have a good experience/response, they'll want more, More, MORE!..Analease that's it...the stuff in like a toothpaste container..but instead of useing it for analsex, you put it on your lovers penis, like around his head. Not tons, just enough to make him numb, <it wears off, won't harm ya> then thrust away blissfully.>

To the other chick, or fellas who's partner won't give them oral. Chances are they tried it once, & the other partner wasn't hygenic enough, or they don't like the pubic hair. You can let your lover bathe you, then slather yourself with honey, or chocolate syrup, and let them lick it off. If it's the pubic hair, then if you're so inclined, you can shave/wax/whatever. (men or women, some gals cant' stand pubic hair either) If it's still a NO! Then beg them to try it, while you wear (guys) wear a condom, so they know you won't force them to swallow. (Girls) let him use a dental dam. It's like a VERY thin piece of latex, that he can stretch over your vagina (or anywhere else) and then he can lick & nibble you to your first oral little death.

If it's still a NO..then tell him he'd better make sure his/her hand isn't tired because there's no reason not to digitally stimulate you to 'O'.

Many People are suffereing from depression, or on various prescribed medications that alter thier sex drive. Not to mention the people who use recreational drink or drugs. If it used to be higher than it is now. Then think about what's changed?
* Kids? Try to get a baby sitter, so it's not going to be a weeklong sex a thon like when you were in college, but sending the kids to the Boys n Girls Club, or on purpose enrolling them into an extra curricular activity, say Boy Scouts, & carpooling, that should leave you at least an hour. Quickies 'CAN' help your sex drive survive :)

*Illness (unless it's extreame depression or fatigue, or communicable, use precautions :) ) Well make an appointment, to see your Family Physician, Phychiatrist, Sex Councilor.

*Boreing. Jesuits!! Get a how too book. So what if you know how to do it, pull out a sex manual, and go through it position by position..you know you mastered it, when you've both orgasmed doing #45 (I'm celibate in Real Life, so I hope # 45 isn't illegal in your state)

*No Time? If YOU don't make time, NO ONE Else will.

Do something different. If she watches the kids and makes your dinner all the time. Even if you burn water, you can order out. Do it in the minivan when the kids are asleep & the cars in the garage, ask your man to finger you in your pool for a midnite skinny dip.

And really the most obvious thing is BE HONEST WITH YOUR MATE!

Cheating's not the way to go. (Unless it's your mate & your fetish, then far be it from me to be judgemental) But think about it. A fucks cum & go (takeing/leaving god knows what with them & you) Your marraige is supposed to last for life & even if not, the fucking paperwork from the divorce/alimony & child support do.


(yes I have been married, yes I did have an affair on my husband, No I don't suggest it to anyone who wants to continue a relationship that's supposed to be based on trust and support. & last but not least, how would you feel if you found out your mate was on one of these boards, posting something like this behind your back? Would you feel angry because they didn't tell you 1st? Would you be pleased they were trying to find a soloution..that didn't include you? You know that old shoe on the other foot thing.)

I'm not being self righteous, or wanting anyone to flame me, or get ticked, I really hope that something I said helps someone just a little.

And as for that "All Guys Cheat" thing. From all the Anthropology things I know about it's more like Males try to spread thier seed to make sure that they have viable offspring to carry on thier genetic code. Where as Females will go to whom they see as the best provider for themselves and and thier off spring. So think of it as, the more the guy fucks around, the less appealing he is to more women, because then he's spreading himself so thin, she knows he isn't going to be there to provide, so she's going to look for another male who can.

Everyone is replaceable. If you want to be happy, just make sure that replaceable person isn't you :)
 
My congratulations, Mr. Eight Ball. It's readily apparent to all that look at the personals that a frustrated married woman gets plenty of replies, but note the number of threads from guys with no responses. Your sincerity struck a nerve. I'm in a 30 year plus marriage that was sexually wonderful before the wedding and downhill ever since. Like you, I would give my life for my wife without hesitation. I learned long ago to respect her lack of desire, but I was always frustrated that I could get no answers as to why. I finally accepted the fact that she had reached a point that she only desired sex occasionally (every couple of months or so). It's something I accept and, contrary to some opinions, don't blame myself for. I've had many lovers over the years, short term and long term. I'm careful, never had STD and realize that I do so for my own needs, not to retaliate against my wife. Absolute discretion and understanding that I'm married and will not change are required in these relationships. You'd be surprised how many women find that acceptable. Indeed, many require it in return.

One reply states "All men cheat"? Bullshit. Do you have any idea how many women cheat? My wife and I have a very Platonic relationship. No, I don't tell about my trysts, but she often tells me about her friends and their problems with cheating husbands. I'm constantly amazed how often, when we get deep into the conversation, they have confided in her about affairs that they have never admitted to their husbands. Don't believe me? Read the Kinsey report from decades ago, or read the public records from Colonial American villages and note how many marriage licenses are followed by birth records 3 to 6 months later.

You're welcome to condemn the fact that I have trysts and go home to tell my wife that I love her. Actually, I'm a better husband when I have a discreet, respectful lover somewhere along the way (I travel extensively). I would have thought that conclusion impossible in my younger days, but it works for me. It doesn't mean it works for all. Well, I'm on a rant and will now cease.
 
Unstuck, 'I' wasnt the one who originally posted, "All Men Cheat" I believe the original starter of this thread was the one who said that. And I was the one who stated that women do too.

I wouldn't find your behavior acceptable, if I was your wife, but as I've said before, I'm not here to judge, I was only trying to be helpful and suggest that if people are so intrested in thier mariages succeeding, that they try honesty, and communicate thier needs better. Most couples, would rather thier mate find fulfillment in them, instead of an outside source. Even swingers or people who like to enjoy various partners with thier mate, I'm sure none of them wake up thinking "Ya know Man, I'm sure happy I'm not a good lay!"

People make excuses to justify whatever they wish to do. It doesn't make it good or bad, or right or wrong. Everyone has to ultimately live with themselves and thier descisions the rest of thier lives.

I wasn't slamming any guys or gals for thier concerns or difficulties. I was only trying to offer solutions. I'm sure no one married thier spouse, with the intent of not ever finding sexual gratification with thier mate ever again, and haveing to find/pay outside sources.
 
It's become apparent.......

This must be way to deep of a subject for me. Silly of me, I know, to think of this as simply something so benign as............. being "Frustrated in Western Michigan."

I'm very embarrassed about my little quips when in reality this is a much deeper subject than I could ever have imagined.

Well, from this point forth I'm making a pledge..........no submissions to this thread that aren't at least 3 paragraphs and I'll do my best to adhere to this.

Ta Ta
 
Can you believe it......

OMG!!!!!!!!!

That was three paragraphs wasn't it??????

If it wasn't...... than I'm invoking the "ee cummings rule". Thuuuummmmmmmmmmmpttttttt!!!!!!!!!!
 
Thanks for joining this thread PJ and I am certain that 'Unstuck in Time' and 'Astarat' will be able to "help" with this.
 
Well your sense of humor must keep your sex drive in stitches Backyard. I really thought this was a bunch of people who were hopeing to to share and hear about possible solutions to thier troubles.

I was unaware that thier (our) misfortunes & dificulties were really something to poke so much fun at, I'm sure all your armchair commediane skills would be better suited to a Comedy thread on an entirely different board. And seeing as you said this subject was so over your head, I'm sure there are remedial boards elsewhere, or that you could get a tutor to help you understand the contents.

I feel very sorry for you, to find 2 intelligent posters as such a threat, especially seeing as they were only trying to help. I didn't think that the original poster was just asking for someone to have a tryst with. I was under the impression that he and others were saying they were at thier wits end, & were hopeing for other ideas from people who'd been in the same situation and had something more productive to share.
 
I dare say Astarte you might have gotten one thing right in your diatribe correct: I don't think Mr. Eight (the original poster) wanted just a tryst out of his post either. However, do I think it was a very close second to what he wanted his post to yield him......yes I do.

Everyone, I dare say, in "our" position find ways to deal with our lack of sex from our spouse or s/o and mine might, in the future, be a comedic routine. It will, however, never be so clinical as to suggest various therapeutic veins, nor will it be so pompous as to lecture others on why they got "hitched" in the first place before, in effect, deriding them for wanting a tryst at all.

And, just to stay with the multi paragraphed, "windbagish" format of late, please don't flatter yourself, it is unbecoming and beneath you. Anyone with a functioning neuron can see that you have some intelligence, are you any more intelligent than myself or anyone else that has posted on this board........I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest "no". Therefore, I can assure you, even during your finest hour you would still have a long way to go before you intimidate me.

I would think that a allocution goes a long ways toward killing a thread because most posters are intelligent and they don't want to post "out of hand" but yet don't feel like having to read "War and Peace" to do so. So, with your permission, I shall revert back to the mindless, comedic, light hearted format that does occasionally poke fun at the more staid, "sticks in the mud" such as yourself, (and after this post, me, thank you very much).

Cheers!!
 
Stepping into enemy territory

I've been reading this thread for a few days and I just had to step in.

I'm on the other side of the fence. I'm the one that doesn't want it. The thing is it's not that I don't want it, I just don't want it from him. That's not meant in a mean way, it's just that I find I'm not sexually attracted to him anymore.

How do you keep that sexual attraction going when you've been with someone for 12 years. When they don't really listen to you anymore. When they just come home, lay around watching tv or sleeping. When you feel, maybe wrongly, you're not their first priority but possibly their last. When anytime you open your mouth they either shush you because they're watching something on tv or tell you what you have to say is ridiculous or unimportant.

The attraction isn't there mentally or physically anymore and I don't think there's anything I can do about it. What scares me the most is that I wonder if it's even possible to get it back.

Anyway, I just wanted to give a viewpoint from the other side of the fence. I don't know if it'll help anybody and I wouldn't be surprised if I got some flames but I felt compeled to post it.

Good luck to all of you.

CatEyes
 
While you might be coming (or not cuming) from a different angle it still has to be the same as with the rest of us...........frustrating.

I guess the next question would be: have you thought about doing anything other than what I assume most of have done, i.e. counciling, talking about it, etc, etc, etc?
 
Re: Stepping into enemy territory

Cat Eyes,

You're not really in enemy territory here. Your situation is a bit different than mine but with the same results and limited set of choices for resolving things.

The fact that you aren't sexually attracted to him anymore may have more to do with him than you. It sounds like he isn't very open to discussion or respectful of you when you try. It sounds like he has become lethargic and apathetic - and how can anyone find that attractive? As my comrade put it, it takes two. If one is on the couch flipping through channels, that leaves only one.

My situation differs in that my wife and I do talk about this, she is open and respectful, but still not sexually motivated - by me or anyone else. She isn't mean or spiteful. It isn't that we have drifted apart, she has just lost her drive slowly over the years (ten years). We still enjoy each other's company and talks and have a lot of fun together - just not sexually. She has done nothing wrong. This is just how things are.

How do you keep the sexual attraction going? I don't know. Perhaps you can't. But it sounds like he is putting zero effort into it. I don't think what you feel (or don't feel) is wrong. We all get so mired down in "right" and "wrong". You don't get to choose what you feel. There is no wrong way to feel. If you aren't sexually attracted to him, there are valid reasons. If those reasons can be changed, you have options. But if he isn't willing to put in the effort, then welcome to the club. You can't change other people.

No one should be told that what they have to say is rediculous. That's just mean. It's perfectly o.k. to disagree, but not to belittle someone. That alone would turn me off.

Is it possible to get it back? I don't know that either. But I'm still trying. I'm not sure when/how I'll know when to quit. Maybe never. But don't blame youself or feel guilty for how you feel. That's just being human. And remember that you can't get it back by yourself no matter how hard you try - he has to be invested as well.

You'll get no flames from me. Male or female, this situation is common and frustrating. The reasons for it vary as do the symptoms, but the feelings are the same. You aren't really on the other side of the fence. In fact, there is no fence.

I didn't start this thread to bash my wife or even to bitch. It was started out of desperation. And I've found a lot of people who are in the same boat. And although none of us has a solution, I find some comfort in the fact that I'm not alone.

I wish you luck with your husband. I wish I could give you more than just that. If nothing else, I do understand what you are feeling and going through. I think we all do.

Thanks for your input,

-Mr_Eightball
 
Hold your fire!

Hey everyone,

Wow! What a whole lot of pent up hostility we have here, eh? This is what happens when you tap into long-standing sexual frustration. Creepy, isn't it?

Make love, not war! Bwa ha ha. Ha. *sigh*

O.k., some things to clear up; not that I have to, but wish to.

No, I didn't start the thread looking for a tryst. I'm honestly not sure what I was looking for. No, I've never had an affair. I've never cheated on someone even when casually dating. I know, I know "goody little two-shoes!". Believe me, I don't get to take the moral high-ground. My thoughts alone are condemning. And I'm not making a statment about affairs one way or the other. I'm open to anything but currently doing nothing. I'm asking questions and looking for solutions.

Yes, I have talked to my wife about everything I've spoke of on this thread (and then some). I didn't just throw my hands up in dispair and go looking for a romp. In fact, I'd have zero problem having her read it. She would understand; she is that great. (I may do that tonight)

Look, I'm not advocating having an affair - and I'm not discounting it. I'm just recognizing it while talking about my situation. It is simply one of the few options available. I'm not saying it's a good or bad option, only that it exists and it does work for some people and fail miserably for others. Mostly I'm interested in hearing from those people and learning from them. Although I've done nothing worthy of judgement (yet), I'll be the last person to judge someone else.

Backyard Sweaty: I think poking fun at all of this is o.k. Humor has saved my sanity repeatedly. And it never hurts for us to lighten the f*** up. In fact, it's a nice break to be reading through this and hit one of your posts. Sort of brings me back to life.

I think that being serious is o.k. too. I'm sure I'll bounce back and forth as the mood strikes me. And sometimes it just depends on who I'm responding to. I won't respond to a serious post with wit and humor and visa versa.

Anyway, I think it's great that so many people have gotten involved in this thread. I really didn't expect a reply. And obviously this is an emotionally charged topic with a wide audience. But I want to urge everyone to be respectful of each other. Otherwise this can easily spiral into something icky. I've watched that happen to a lot of threads and that is usually when everyone bails except the dualling banjos and the thread implodes.

Inevitably, I'm going to say something that someone doesn't like. Please feel free to tell me you don't like it and I'll do the same. While you are at it, tell me why you disagree and what you would do instead. As long as we keep the dialogue open, there is the chance for some good to come of all of this.

And yeah, I know, I ramble on way too long. Shutting up now.

Thanks!

-Mr_Eightball
 
Backyard sweaty said:
While you might be coming (or not cuming) from a different angle it still has to be the same as with the rest of us...........frustrating.

I guess the next question would be: have you thought about doing anything other than what I assume most of have done, i.e. counciling, talking about it, etc, etc, etc?

I haven't even talked to him much about it. I mean how do you come out and tell someone that you're not sexually attracted to them anymore without them either being really hurt or really angry...or both. I've made little comments about not paying attention, always being too busy, etc. It hasn't changed anything.

CatEyes
 
Re: Hold your fire!

Mr_Eightball said:
Hey everyone,

Look, I'm not advocating having an affair - and I'm not discounting it. I'm just recognizing it while talking about my situation. It is simply one of the few options available. I'm not saying it's a good or bad option, only that it exists and it does work for some people and fail miserably for others. Mostly I'm interested in hearing from those people and learning from them. Although I've done nothing worthy of judgement (yet), I'll be the last person to judge someone else.


Thanks!

-Mr_Eightball

Thank you for your response to my post. Even though you ramble on, as you say, you make alot of sense. ;-)

Since you want some insight into affair or no affair I'll give you my thoughts on it.

I had an affair about 5 years ago. I don't know if it's because I'm a female but my feelings got involved. That was not a good thing at all. It felt great at the time, it was a wonderful experience but it just made everything harder. If I could be with someone else without getting emotionally involved it would be wonderful but I don't know if that's possible, for me. I'm sure alot of people can though. You just have to be careful.

CatEyes
 
Re: Re: Stepping into enemy territory

Cat Eyes,

That was the hardest thing for me to do - sit down with her and say the hard things. And I was so terrified of how she would take it.

I started out by telling her that this was going to be a tough thing to talk about, but the goal was to make things better, not blow up our marriage. Then I just started talking. I was fortunate in that she wanted me to tell her these things. She wanted to know and do what we could do.

Your husband may not respond that way. He may appreciate that you are trying to improve your sex life or he may be annoyed that you are "bothering" him with it. But the problem isn't going to resolve itself without effort from both of you. You seem willing to put that effort in. Is he? Or is he content with how things are?

I tried the little comments approach for years. She just ignored them or blew them off. That was easier. Addressing them meant having this conversation and we both really avoided that for a long time. And so much time has been wasted now.

Unfortunately, there is no easy way to deal with this. And, like me, you may have the tough talk and find that there is no good solution. Then what? Well, then you are where I am - limbo. And the options from my vantage point are few and weak. But I keep working at it.

Until you talk to him, you won't know what the possibilities are. But after you've talked, you can't go back. Everything will be out on the table and you'll have to deal with it. And sorrow is the knowledge that brings no good to the wise.

I really feel for you. This is a rough position to be in. There are no easy decisions or options. But one thing is for sure: If you do nothing, nothing will improve.

Now what? I don't know. But, like I said, I'm still working on it. Time will tell. I'll gladly share any wisdom I gain. I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do.

-Mr_Eightball
 
Maybe I am wrong but isn't this why a lot of us are lurking around these bulletin boards? We don't find satisfaction in our relationships and are looking for it here?

I see a lot in earlier posts that apply to me and they are not flattering. Not paying attention for too many years. Putting down even if unintentional. Too little sex drive and then too much. Deflecting sex when my wife took initive and then blaming her for stopping all attempts. Seems there is a constant conflict within me between wanting but not being unable to accept.

Is this just another form of masterbation?
 
Jack,

No, I think you've hit the nail on the head. All of the reasons you've listed have led one or more of us here (or pushed someone else here). And yeah, it can be just so much more extended masturbation here on Lit. Talking dirty with strangers in another state is "safe" and provides an outlet to some extent. No autopsy, no foul.

And yeah, I think at one time or another, most of this probably applies to all of us. Part of the bain of humanity. We're flawed, man!

What this thread has sort of dipped into (quite accidentally) is that all of this chatting, dirty talk, emails, pictures, etc. is just medicating symptoms of something larger. It eases the tension but doesn't solve any greater problems. And sooner or later, that doesn't do the job anymore. It's like crack - you have to have more each time to get the same effect. So you have to take it farther, do more. At some point, it becomes dangerous. That begs a lot of questions: Can we solve the greater problems? Do we want to? Should we even try?

For a long time, masturbation did the job. But over time, it has become more like brushing my teeth (only less fun). Maybe sex with the same person is like that over time as well. My personal issue isn't that sex has become dull but that it has disappeared. But some of us are having regular sex that is just...well...boring. Regardless of the "why", we all seem to be saying, "What now?" How the hell do I feel alive again sexually?

And, as of late, the jury is out on most of it.

"8"
 
Re: Man now what we all......

PJ,

You brought up another good point. I too have talked to my wife about our sex life and, like you, it seems to get better for a couple of weeks right after we talk and then slump back down. What is that?

Unlike you, we haven't tried counseling yet. That may be on the agenda soon, but I haven't seen that really work for anyone yet. It almost seems like the last thing you do before getting divorced.
Like, "Well, we did the counseling. Later!" That is why I've been hesitant about going. After that, if things don't improve, I'm really out of options. Ick.

Did counseling do you guys any good?

"8"
 
I personally found counseling to be a waste of time as I got the same long term result out of it as I did sitting her down and "chatting" about "it."

Very simply stated, to my way of thinking, (oh God, here he goes again), after the counseling, the chatting, the attempts to make it exciting have all failed, you have an affair.

Now that might sound simplistic, shallow and smack of taking the easy way out, but not how I mean it. Notice I said nothing about divorce, hurting your spouse, kids, relatives, etc., etc., etc. Cat touched on it, if the only thing missing from your relationship is sex then replace it, just do it from the perspective of "it is what it is" and nothing more.

This isn't just about you, either you are okay with *M* for the rest of your life or you find sexual satisfaction elsewhere with a like minded individual. But the bottom line is you don't need to hurt people to be happy just use common sense, safe sex, be honest with yourself and your new found partner. It makes perfect sense to me..........however being "gifted with good sense" has never been used to describe me.
 
Backyard Sweaty,

You are my new personal god. LOL!

As much as your ideas and viewpoint conflict with the norms of society, I can't disagree with any of it. Of the options available, that is the least invasive and makes the most sense. Of course, that does assume that you are smart about it in every way imaginable.

As little as a hundred years ago, this was actually the normal course of action. People rarely married for love; they married for economic stability - a good provider. Then they found a lover outside of that. We now marry for love all the time, but that hasn't really changed anything. Are we marrying badly?

It is odd that we can have many friends, many family members but only one lover. And you can share family and friends but not lovers. We are a very insecure species.

Will I ever be able actually have an affair without the guilt killing me off before I can enjoy it? I don't know yet. I think I still have some work to do before I believe that I've exhausted all other options. But I am aware of my humanity - the clock is ticking. Sooner or later, something is going to give. And if that can happen without hurting anyone, that will be my choice at the time.

"8"
 
Good reply about our social mores and the conclusion that we can have only one lover. I was told once by a woman that there are love, sex and marriage. You're lucky if you have all 3 with one person. I've been that lucky in my life, but not all the time. I certainly don't propose affairs when sex isn't available at home. Some can handle it and keep things in perspective realizing that they are just doing it for sex. That's another one of our social mores --- to say "I love you" right after you've entered someone or been entered. I think that may be why many older cultures permit prostitution, albeit with a wink and a nod. Hence, it's purely a contract for sex and nothing more.

Cat Eyes, you struck a nerve when you commmented about not finding him desirable. I think that's most men's first conclusion when their wives loose interest. It's very frightening to us (damn we're delicate when it comes to our sexual ego), but I wholeheartedly agree that honest communication is the best approach. Actually, if you have honest and open communication in a marriage, you have a chance to overcome anything --- even an affair. Infidelity won't destroy a marriage, but lack of communcation will. I'm at the end of my rant. Thanks again for starting and continuing this thread Mr. Eightball and I wish you the best and hope you find a solution.
 
Unstuck,

Thanks! I have no doubt that I will find a solution. Ideally, that solution would be to somehow regenerate the physical intimacy in my marriage. If that turns out to be absolutely not possible, then I'll try the next solution down from there. Repeat as needed.

Tick, tick, tick...

"8"
 
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