Men & Kink

[twysted73]

*digs into the right pocket for two cents*

Men are taught, from a VERY early age, to be tough, to "take it like a man", don't cry, to be strong.
So that sets us up to follow a generally accepted and expected path or pattern of self-regulation.
Like a man code to follow.
Don't let them see you cry, it's said.
Be the stone/tree/wall she leans against.

it's as much a part of your DNA to choose the brawny/strong/agressive/dominant men to have children with as it is for us to strive to be that way.
Even in our daily activities, we are genetically geared to be agressive to attract a mate.
The hunter/gatherers.
(keep in mind we were out there shooting our food no less then 200 years ago)
If a man gains dominance or success over a situation, his body automatically pumps out a coctail of adrenaline & testosterone to fuel his muscles, mind, perception, reflexes.
The hair on his body actually grows at a higher rate for repeated victories.
We are MADE to be agressive.
(which makes me laugh till I piss when I hear of school programs that supress the male child's agressive patterns. Which then makes me laugh even HARDEr when women ask, "Where are all the real men?" Answer? You're beating it out of us at an early age you moron.
But I digress.

So...not only are we geared to be dominant and agressive, we're taught to be so.
Expected to be so. (might be why we die faster then woman..hmm? All that internalization and stress of one's emotions on one's heart and organs?)

ENTER: The submissive tendancy.
Those who now feel a need to let that pressure drop even if for one afternoon aren't viewed as overly masculine, but femanine. They went against the code!
You also have to take into consideration that most men's emotions are grossly retarded due to neglect stemming/starting from childhood, primarily left to fend for themselves and expected to do so out of a generally accepted form of machismo.

So guys are left with an old, dusty rule book on how to be a man and sent off into the world with it.
Along the way, if we have questions, we look around for someone to ask and noone meets your eyes because they don't want to admit they're like you for fear of retribution whether external or self-inflicted.

Did this help?

I can go on if need be.
I've been told I'm long winded and should have been a preacher.

 

[Homburg]

The hair on his body actually grows at a higher rate for repeated victories.
We are MADE to be agressive.

*looks at his fur* I'm a stone-cold fucking winner.

Actually, while it is not really noticable on me, my primary lifting partner has noticed a blatant increase in body hair. Proper lifting is all about your test-levels, and it does good things to them. I figure in a few more years, I'll have to shave my forehead =P

(which makes me laugh till I piss when I hear of school programs that supress the male child's agressive patterns. Which then makes me laugh even HARDEr when women ask, "Where are all the real men?" Answer? You're beating it out of us at an early age you moron.
But I digress.

I've been saying this for years.

 

[Netzach]

Men are taught, from a VERY early age, to be tough, to "take it like a man", don't cry, to be strong.
So that sets us up to follow a generally accepted and expected path or pattern of self-regulation.
Like a man code to follow.
Don't let them see you cry, it's said.
Be the stone/tree/wall she leans against.

it's as much a part of your DNA to choose the brawny/strong/agressive/dominant men to have children with as it is for us to strive to be that way.
Even in our daily activities, we are genetically geared to be agressive to attract a mate.
The hunter/gatherers.
(keep in mind we were out there shooting our food no less then 200 years ago)
If a man gains dominance or success over a situation, his body automatically pumps out a coctail of adrenaline & testosterone to fuel his muscles, mind, perception, reflexes.
The hair on his body actually grows at a higher rate for repeated victories.
We are MADE to be agressive.
(which makes me laugh till I piss when I hear of school programs that supress the male child's agressive patterns. Which then makes me laugh even HARDEr when women ask, "Where are all the real men?" Answer? You're beating it out of us at an early age you moron.
But I digress.

So...not only are we geared to be dominant and agressive, we're taught to be so.
Expected to be so. (might be why we die faster then woman..hmm? All that internalization and stress of one's emotions on one's heart and organs?)

ENTER: The submissive tendancy.
Those who now feel a need to let that pressure drop even if for one afternoon aren't viewed as overly masculine, but femanine. They went against the code!
You also have to take into consideration that most men's emotions are grossly retarded due to neglect stemming/starting from childhood, primarily left to fend for themselves and expected to do so out of a generally accepted form of machismo.

So guys are left with an old, dusty rule book on how to be a man and sent off into the world with it.
Along the way, if we have questions, we look around for someone to ask and noone meets your eyes because they don't want to admit they're like you for fear of retribution whether external or self-inflicted.

Did this help?

I can go on if need be.
I've been told I'm long winded and should have been a preacher.

Testosterone is interesting.

They did a study on it involving football pros, actors, and salesmen.

The football pros averaged out.

The salesmen had the lowest T levels - they're constantly in a state of rejection and pressure.

The actors had the highest - they had the most tangible regular positive approval and strokes from other people.

Proof that it's not clubbing the bison, it's what everyone back at the fire thinks of you for doing it that really matters.

 

[Netzach]

*looks at his fur* I'm a stone-cold fucking winner.

Actually, while it is not really noticable on me, my primary lifting partner has noticed a blatant increase in body hair. Proper lifting is all about your test-levels, and it does good things to them. I figure in a few more years, I'll have to shave my forehead =P




I've been saying this for years.

According to the studies, it's your cock thread that probably does more for T.
Ha.

 

[Netzach]

*looks at his fur* I'm a stone-cold fucking winner.

Actually, while it is not really noticable on me, my primary lifting partner has noticed a blatant increase in body hair. Proper lifting is all about your test-levels, and it does good things to them. I figure in a few more years, I'll have to shave my forehead =P




I've been saying this for years.

So are we supposed to let them go all Lord of the Flies and shit, or is it cool to try and get the message that sensitivity is good as well as blowing things up?

I recognize that blowing things up is an important part of boyhood, even if you grow up and want to be a woman or grow up to be a totally submissive engineer. It just is.

Because you know, watch some Rawhide or something, it's not that new or that radical an idea, the tough/socially responsible thing. I swear, this old-ass TV kick I've been on is interesting. I think it's suburban isolation that's raising a bunch of asocial loonies, not a softening of ideals.

The real value was toughness when called for, tenderness with the widows and orphans. And now it's just gone to pot period.

I think we actually had a lot MORE models for how a man could be submissive without being hen pecked or a pussy (if one finds those bad things) in the past than now.

 

[Homburg]

According to the studies, it's your cock thread that probably does more for T.
Ha.

It depends. I jack with my testosterone levels on purpose with my lifting, and my diet.

That said, fuck yeah, the AHC thread was awesome. Mojo, in general, is awesome. When I get that jazzy little boost that comes from the sort of attention that is Mojo friendly, yeah, I feel all growly. I've learned to pay attention to those feelings and use that vibe to my advantage. Makes me happy.

Heh, there are a few people here that have seen me on complete testosterone overload. It's fun to watch, apparently. Fi certainly had a good time watching me when I was in that mode

I'm all about T. Fuck drugs. T is the best.

 

[Netzach]

It depends. I jack with my testosterone levels on purpose with my lifting, and my diet.

That said, fuck yeah, the AHC thread was awesome. Mojo, in general, is awesome. When I get that jazzy little boost that comes from the sort of attention that is Mojo friendly, yeah, I feel all growly. I've learned to pay attention to those feelings and use that vibe to my advantage. Makes me happy.

Heh, there are a few people here that have seen me on complete testosterone overload. It's fun to watch, apparently. Fi certainly had a good time watching me when I was in that mode

I'm all about T. Fuck drugs. T is the best.

I'm sure. I was always a little jealous of some of my FTM friends on the stuff, I've never experienced any kind of positive relationship with my hormonal fluctuations, except for maybe the horniness of ovulation. But the weepy, angry, must-pick-on-someone-till-they-fight-me-so-I-can-hate-them shit I'm so over. It's some tiresome crap.

 

[Homburg]

I'm sure. I was always a little jealous of some of my FTM friends on the stuff, I've never experienced any kind of positive relationship with my hormonal fluctuations, except for maybe the horniness of ovulation. But the weepy, angry, must-pick-on-someone-till-they-fight-me-so-I-can-hate-them shit I'm so over. It's some tiresome crap.

Well, men have our own hormonal cycles. They just cycle more quickly. T-levels fluctuate like crazy, and we turn into moody, surly beasts.

Heck, I'm half jealous of guys on T-replacement products like androgel and the like. Their T-levels are more consistent, and frequently higher. Well, they are if you go to the right doc. It's interesting how things like androgel become the recreational drug of choice for a certain crowd. Male longevity clinics are such a great cover for TRT providers.

 

[YourCaptor]

Even in our daily activities, we are genetically geared to be agressive to attract a mate.

I would disagree with this; I don’t think men are any more aggressive then women. I only think men are more forward in their actions.

For example, a male gets pissed off and jumps in the fight, while the female counterpart thinks, yea I’m pissed, but a fight isn’t worth it.

So, men don’t have more of a natural want to violate anyone (aggression), but they are probably more prone to throw themselves into a violent situation.

 

[Netzach]

I would disagree with this; I don’t think men are any more aggressive then women. I only think men are more forward in their actions.

For example, a male gets pissed off and jumps in the fight, while the female counterpart thinks, yea I’m pissed, but a fight isn’t worth it.

So, men don’t have more of a natural want to violate anyone (aggression), but they are probably more prone to throw themselves into a violent situation.

Agree completely.

Men are much more risk-compatible. And I don't think that's entirely social programming, though largely.

 

[Netzach]

Well, men have our own hormonal cycles. They just cycle more quickly. T-levels fluctuate like crazy, and we turn into moody, surly beasts.

Heck, I'm half jealous of guys on T-replacement products like androgel and the like. Their T-levels are more consistent, and frequently higher. Well, they are if you go to the right doc. It's interesting how things like androgel become the recreational drug of choice for a certain crowd. Male longevity clinics are such a great cover for TRT providers.

Oh they can be totally emotionally whacked too, don't I know. But they're picking it actively this time around, choosing the variety of nuttiness. And that surge of total RIGHTNESS has to be really cool with the chemistry along with it.

I probably should have a workup, I mean my lack of maternal feeling of any kind isn't normal and leaves me morbidly curious. I'm a completely naked ape though, there's no way my levels could be that elevated without me having to shave my legs more.

 

[Netzach]

Mm, BB, a thought I had on the original topic - the boys are just not raised to be as introspective.

I mean sure, you have the odd author who burns brilliantly with his insight into his own soul, but really it's just not part of the toolkit you get as a boy. It's more about doing doing doing - and understanding your own self is often on the backburner.

Most of the time, I don't find men *afraid* of their own desires, but ignorant of them for a long time and perplexed by them, quite genuinely.

 

[Homburg]

So are we supposed to let them go all Lord of the Flies and shit, or is it cool to try and get the message that sensitivity is good as well as blowing things up?

I recognize that blowing things up is an important part of boyhood, even if you grow up and want to be a woman or grow up to be a totally submissive engineer. It just is.

Because you know, watch some Rawhide or something, it's not that new or that radical an idea, the tough/socially responsible thing. I swear, this old-ass TV kick I've been on is interesting. I think it's suburban isolation that's raising a bunch of asocial loonies, not a softening of ideals.

The real value was toughness when called for, tenderness with the widows and orphans. And now it's just gone to pot period.

I think we actually had a lot MORE models for how a man could be submissive without being hen pecked or a pussy (if one finds those bad things) in the past than now.

Blowing shit up is honestly important. Kids need to learn to take chances. I did all sorts of stupid shit, and am still around. I'm trying to figure out how to raise my kids (girls included) to not be risk-averse wimps. I want subversive thinkers, and risk-taking doers.

Just not sure how to get them there.

--------

Oh they can be totally emotionally whacked too, don't I know. But they're picking it actively this time around, choosing the variety of nuttiness. And that surge of total RIGHTNESS has to be really cool with the chemistry along with it.

I probably should have a workup, I mean my lack of maternal feeling of any kind isn't normal. I'm a completely naked ape though, there's no way my levels could be that elevated without me having to shave my legs more.

For a while there, I though about getting a workup done. I mentioned it to viv and got completely laughed at. I figure I'm getting older, T-levels might be tapering. Yeah, laughed at. Okay, so, by her estimation, my T-levels are a-okay. Mentioned it to my best friend, and lifting partner, AP. He laughed too. I'm feeling like I'm not all-fired cavemanly like normal, and I'm getting laughed at. He finally asked me about my numbers under the bar. Going up, and steadily. Yeah, no T-issues there.

Best advice he ever gave me.

As to maternal impulse and T-levels in a woman, a friend's aunt had abnormally high t-levels. Shaved, thick muscles, etc. Couldn't have kids, and didn't really have a period. She also had the strongest mother urge I've ever seen.

 

[Netzach]

Blowing shit up is honestly important. Kids need to learn to take chances. I did all sorts of stupid shit, and am still around. I'm trying to figure out how to raise my kids (girls included) to not be risk-averse wimps. I want subversive thinkers, and risk-taking doers.

Just not sure how to get them there.

Wow, yeah, that IS true. I was relegated to blowing things up....with my MIND...hahahaha!

Yeah, delayed risk taking is bad, generally.

--------
As to maternal impulse and T-levels in a woman, a friend's aunt had abnormally high t-levels. Shaved, thick muscles, etc. Couldn't have kids, and didn't really have a period. She also had the strongest mother urge I've ever seen.

Noted, good point. Probably is just one of those individual fingerprint things.

 

[twysted73]

I would disagree with this; I don’t think men are any more aggressive then women. I only think men are more forward in their actions.

For example, a male gets pissed off and jumps in the fight, while the female counterpart thinks, yea I’m pissed, but a fight isn’t worth it.

So, men don’t have more of a natural want to violate anyone (aggression), but they are probably more prone to throw themselves into a violent situation.

I recognize and respect your view.
Let's take it one step further.
WHY are they more prone to subjecting themselves to violent situations?
Would it not be in responding to some sub-brained impulse to show dominance over the other males?
To come out on top of the pile in the event a woman is watching?

Interesting study: Next time you're in a group of gathered men in a small place for, say, a period of time exceeding 2 to 3 days.
Watch the alphas collect the others and peck at the betas.
I find remaining silent is the best way to stay on the fringes long enough to acertain who's who.
Because the betas will tuck tail to gain acceptance at the cost of their own pride by doing something so simple as a self-effacing joke or remark.
Better the funny man then the punching bag it would seem.

For all our advances, we are so animalistic when we forget to be civilized.

 

[Netzach]

I recognize and respect your view.
Let's take it one step further.
WHY are they more prone to subjecting themselves to violent situations?
Would it not be in responding to some sub-brained impulse to show dominance over the other males?
To come out on top of the pile in the event a woman is watching?

Interesting study: Next time you're in a group of gathered men in a small place for, say, a period of time exceeding 2 to 3 days.
Watch the alphas collect the others and peck at the betas.
I find remaining silent is the best way to stay on the fringes long enough to acertain who's who.
Because the betas will tuck tail to gain acceptance at the cost of their own pride by doing something so simple as a self-effacing joke or remark.
Better the funny man then the punching bag it would seem.

For all our advances, we are so animalistic when we forget to be civilized.

What about emotiona/status risk-taking? Is it pack dominance that makes Eliot Spitzer pull an Eilot Spitzer?

I'm thinking about adrenaline-junkiedom.

Have you ever been in a room where a visually beta male makes a witty remark and out CHARMS the alpha? It's really interesting. Verbal skill is ranked high in terms of romantic success in a lot of studies, too.

 

[Homburg]

Wow, yeah, that IS true. I was relegated to blowing things up....with my MIND...hahahaha!

Yeah, delayed risk taking is bad, generally.

Not sure how to do so. Eldest son is a bit of a wimp already. He's only 6 though, so it could just be his age.

Noted, good point. Probably is just one of those individual fingerprint things.

I would think so.

------

What about emotiona/status risk-taking? Is it pack dominance that makes Eliot Spitzer pull an Eilot Spitzer?

I'm thinking about adrenaline-junkiedom.

Have you ever been in a room where a visually beta male makes a witty remark and out CHARMS the alpha? It's really interesting. Verbal skill is ranked high in terms of romantic success in a lot of studies, too.

Yup, good stuff.

I never had money, so I had to make up for my looks with my mouth. It's still a bit amazing to me that I ever got anywhere

 

[twysted73]

What about emotiona/status risk-taking? Is it pack dominance that makes Eliot Spitzer pull an Eilot Spitzer?

I'm thinking about adrenaline-junkiedom.

Have you ever been in a room where a visually beta male makes a witty remark and out CHARMS the alpha? It's really interesting. Verbal skill is ranked high in terms of romantic success in a lot of studies, too.

Yes!
Netz you delectibly observant goddess you.
It is rather hilarious.
Not only are they offset, but also confused as to just how the tail is supposed to tuck.
Makes you just want to club them to end the misery.

And about the new photo...I like the yellow one.
*tongue-in-cheek*

 

[YourCaptor]

I recognize and respect your view.
Let's take it one step further.
WHY are they more prone to subjecting themselves to violent situations?
Would it not be in responding to some sub-brained impulse to show dominance over the other males?
To come out on top of the pile in the event a woman is watching?

Interesting study: Next time you're in a group of gathered men in a small place for, say, a period of time exceeding 2 to 3 days.
Watch the alphas collect the others and peck at the betas.
I find remaining silent is the best way to stay on the fringes long enough to acertain who's who.
Because the betas will tuck tail to gain acceptance at the cost of their own pride by doing something so simple as a self-effacing joke or remark.
Better the funny man then the punching bag it would seem.

For all our advances, we are so animalistic when we forget to be civilized.

It’s not just more prone to subjugate to a violent situation, but any situation.

I think it probably stems from the old roles necessary to survive in the wild. Most men are physically designed to go out and bring in the food, which requires that spur of the moment lets do something stupid sort of thinking.

However I think it’s also important to remember that the old hunter/gatherer society did not only consist of hunters and mothers.

And by the way, in human social hierarchy, the alpha hunter is not the alpha male.

 

[Netzach]

It’s not just more prone to subjugate to a violent situation, but any situation.

I think it probably stems from the old roles necessary to survive in the wild. Most men are physically designed to go out and bring in the food, which requires that spur of the moment lets do something stupid sort of thinking.

However I think it’s also important to remember that the old hunter/gatherer society did not only consist of hunters and mothers.

And by the way, in human social hierarchy, the alpha hunter is not the alpha male.

And in a lot, not all, but many, of those societies we like to hearken back to without actually studying, age trumps all. Old old woman totally outranks young expendable hunter. Old old man outranks everyone.

A lot of patriarchal cultures live very sex-segregated lives that most of us would not find much fun. A woman is more likely to enjoy a savage beating from her mother in law than her husband who she sees once an eon anyway.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Thank you. That's not something I'd thought about, the labels transcending everything else about the person, but I can see how and why that would happen.

This I can relate to. I'm epileptic and every now and again I have to tell a new acquaintance about my condition so they don't freak out if anything should happen to cause me to fit. I believe it's only fair on my part to be upfront about it.

I can split the people who know about my epilepsy into 2 groups and the numbers are about even.

1) Those who take on board the info matter of factly, ask a few practical questions and leave it at that.

2) Those who act shocked and worried, ask 100 questions about epilepsy, seizures and my medical history and henceforth spend every moment that they are in my company expecting me to collapse at the slightest provocation.

So, to some people I'm just me. Others will always define me by my condition and treat me like I'm retarded, terminally ill and made of glass. Of course, they mean well but they very quickly drive me nuts and I sometimes end up avoiding their company as a result.

If I were a submissive man, I'd be very wary of who I told. Homosexuality is more widely accepted now but hetero men are still expected to be alpha IMHO.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not leaping on anyone here, but it's really interesting the view of male homosexuality in hetero culture.

Being kind of more intimately involved, there are parts of that culture that make the majority of straight men look like the waltz of the snowflakes.

 

[satindesire]

*Snip*
His opinion is that once he tells people he's bi or poly or kinky it becomes what defines him. The fact that he fought in two wars for this country, or holds two high degrees doesn't matter anymore. All that matters in some people's mind at that point in the fact that he likes boys, has more than one lover, or takes it in the ass.
*Snip*

In a way, this makes a lot of sense to me. As human beings, one of our strongest and most base instincts is to breed, and that requires sex. We are surrounded by it daily and it is a huge part of our exsistance and it takes up a good chunk of our lifetime. So somewhat, by definition, we are how we screw.

Of course, this is just MHO.

ETA: I do not in any way define "You are how we screw" as a bad thing, either. I wanted to clear that up. I am a (mostly) straight, Christian, Right-wing Conservative Republican middle-class Caucasian...the whitebread middle american domestic goddess, so me being a (somewhat) bisexual, submissive, recycling and hybrid-driving exhibitionist who thrives because she can post on a porn board is odd. And that's awesome.

I identify myself by my sexuality because I am a VERY sexual person. Other people have self imposed shame about that. I know I'm base. I know I'm a wild animal. I think I'm okay with that, too.

 

[Homburg]

I'm not leaping on anyone here, but it's really interesting the view of male homosexuality in hetero culture.

Being kind of more intimately involved, there are parts of that culture that make the majority of straight men look like the waltz of the snowflakes.

What do you mean? I can't claim to be involved, but my gay friends honestly don't make it sound all that different. They bitch about their boyfriends in the same way as straight guys bitch about their girlfriends (or the way straight girls bitch about their boyfriends, depending on the individual's style). Or they bitch about being single the same way straight guys do. It never struck me as being all that crazy different.

Admittedly, this could be because of my (bible belt) location. *shrug*

 

[Netzach]

What do you mean? I can't claim to be involved, but my gay friends honestly don't make it sound all that different. They bitch about their boyfriends in the same way as straight guys bitch about their girlfriends (or the way straight girls bitch about their boyfriends, depending on the individual's style). Or they bitch about being single the same way straight guys do. It never struck me as being all that crazy different.

Admittedly, this could be because of my (bible belt) location. *shrug*

I mean that the equating of femininity with male homosexuality is disproven by hanging out with three bears in a leather family who share a home in about five minutes.

The queer eye minstrel show thing is kind of limiting as community PR.