Men & Kink

[Homburg]

The way I see it is that, his father was really abusive and violent. And he never wanted to be like him. Admitting his Dominant thought and urges was something that he feared a lot. He feared becoming like his father.

As I've mentioned before, this was a big hurdle for me. My father was a saint, but my gradnfather was viciously and criminally abusive. I really feared turning into the old man because, frankly, he and I are a LOT alike. It's still something that worries me.

 

[rida]

As I've mentioned before, this was a big hurdle for me. My father was a saint, but my gradnfather was viciously and criminally abusive. I really feared turning into the old man because, frankly, he and I are a LOT alike. It's still something that worries me.

Knowing that someone genetically related could be so vicious inevitably brings on the fear that your own sadistic tendency could be a sign of you being the same. It helps remember that the simple fact of being concern is a sign of NOT being the same.

 

[Homburg]

Knowing that someone genetically related could be so vicious inevitably brings on the fear that your own sadistic tendency could be a sign of you being the same. It helps remember that the simple fact of being concern is a sign of NOT being the same.

I do hope that's case.

 

[Marquis]

I guess for me, the person who's opinion is asked when things are really at maximum stress level is the person in charge.

Ooooooh, deep.

 

[YourCaptor]

define recent...

Recent as in farming having been developed over the last 1/20 of human existence. As farming developed so did the household, marriage was introduced as a way of solidifying claims on property.

Our theories about life in Ur and Egypt, even with all the awesome pictures, are pretty sketchy, let alone what we were doing before then, so pre-farming I'm not sure enters into it. I guess for me, the person who's opinion is asked when things are really at maximum stress level is the person in charge.

The records we have of pre farming cultures do not come from those cultures themselves, but from other cultures that where already far more sophisticated, had writing, and wrote about those that live out in the wild. Of course one needs to read them while understanding that the author is almost certainly bias. So it can be difficult to figure out what is real and what isn’t. For example descriptions of people drinking animal blood in religious ceremonies. With such cases it is important to remember that blood use to be widely used as a thickening agent in cooking, and had many other technical uses. So while facts are in those records, sometimes they are present in a way to shock or appall.

As I've mentioned before, this was a big hurdle for me. My father was a saint, but my gradnfather was viciously and criminally abusive. I really feared turning into the old man because, frankly, he and I are a LOT alike. It's still something that worries me.

I can relate to this, I and my family can see a lot of my father in me, quite frankly something I would rather go without.

However in that sense BDSM is a blessing, because it allows me to act on certain urges, and therefore understand them better, with the ultimate hope of integrating them into my life in a healthy way.

 

[Homburg]

I can relate to this, I and my family can see a lot of my father in me, quite frankly something I would rather go without.

However in that sense BDSM is a blessing, because it allows me to act on certain urges, and therefore understand them better, with the ultimate hope of integrating them into my life in a healthy way.

I very much agree. It helps me get it out in a non-dangerous way.

 

[Feelfreetotouch]

My sexual past consists of relationships and one night stands with me in control of what goes on in bed. I didn't demand the control, I just took it by following the urges that arise when a naked women is infront of me. This was until I met my Mistress. She was the first woman to ever take the raines. Don't get me wrong, woman have tried but for whatever reason I didn't respect them enough to let them take control. My Mistress has released the sub inside me, the sub I didn't realize was there. Now before every decision I make I think of her before I make it. I am hers.

 

[SouthernDom]

We've had several threads about women--Domme, sub, and switch--and feminism here and how it relates to the female BDSM experience. But off the top of my head, I can't think of any that we've had about the male BDSM experience. It's a topic that's been on my mind a lot lately, so I thought I'd see if anybody else was interested.

In both my job and my personal life, I've encountered a ton of men who, for whatever reason, are seriously closeted over their kinks. It transcends sexual orientation (straight, bi, gay, etc) and BDSM orientation (Dom, switch, sub, etc.). I don't mean that they're the kind of people who live D/s or M/s relationships behind closed doors and don't feel the need to tell others outside their relationships about their lives. I'm talking about the ones who really can't even admit to themselves who and what they are and can't accept what it is they truly need.

Now, before anybody points out that this isn't just a male phenomenon, I realize that. I know there are dozens of threads about accepting oneself as a woman and the influence of feminism and such as that. I'm just singling out men this time because I don't think it's been done before here (though I could obviously be wrong about that).

I talk to men every day who have to hide their submissive or dominant (or both) natures from their wives or girlfriends. I talk to men every day who have ended up divorced or perpetually single because they can't just admit to themselves who they are and what they want. There's also a personal element in this that I may or may not reveal later. I want to see how the thread goes first.

Now, while this obviously spans all racial and socioeconomic barriers, the usual suspect is a white middle- to upper-class male. He is usually at least somewhat affluent and in some kind of position of power. He may have come from money and been groomed to run Daddy's company one day, or he may have pulled himself up by the bootstraps and made his own way. Of course, poor men and minority men and even women of all flavors aren't insulated from this, either. It's just that those are the kinds of people I'm exposed to most in my job. (Poor folks don't usually have the money to call phone sex lines.) The one thing all these people have in common is that they're all kinked in some way, and they're all miserable.

I guess what I want to discuss is the whys and wherefores of it all. Is money and/or social acceptance more important than individual happiness? I know in most circles, any sort of deviation from the norm is ridiculed, and I know men (as well as women) are pressured to conform, no matter what. But why is that so powerful? Why is individual choice not a valid option? Why can't these men even admit to themselves what it is they want? Why do they want to conform so badly that they'll make themselves miserable in the process?

I know it's not just a male thing, or an affluent white male thing, at that. Like I said, I realize that it crosses all sorts of racial/cultural/gender/socioeconomic barriers, so you don't have to convince me of that. I would just like to hear about the specific pressures that society puts on men, in particular, and why those pressures have so much hold over them. I'd rather this not devolve into another discussion of feminism, since we've already got a bunch of those discussions, but I understand that it does have a bearing, in some ways.

Women, feel free to run with this, too. I'm just particularly interested in the special "problems" associated with being a kinky man and the overall male BDSM experience and perhaps some insight into the thought processes of those who aren't as accepting of themselves as we are of ourselves. Thanks.

ETA: I know nobody can speak for the entire "male BDSM experience," either. I'm just looking for some particular insight, not sweeping generalizations, and I'm having a hard time wording it.

I'm one of those who must keep the Dom gear and cape hidden in the closet most of the time due to the fact that I reside in a small town where everyone knows everyone else's business.

In my profession, public perception is everything. BDSM-kink, and everything that goes along with it, is not and will not be viewed as socially accepted within this psuedo-religious community and it would be a disaster if the public at large knew the truth about my core, Dominant sexuality. I would be ostracized by the vast majority of family,friends and business associates if all my ''dirty laundry'' were hung out on the line for them to see.

The pattern continues with relationships as well. The local dating pool does'nt offer much in the way of submissive females. Guilt issues,lack of BDSM knowledge and a weekly forcefed diet of religion all play into the afore-mentioned reality.

Occasionally I've met a female who will dabble within the kink in order to keep the so-called relationship alive,but all my past relationships have ultimately met the same fate in the end due to incompatibility issues.

At the end of the day, I'm comfortable with who I am and what I hunger for................but I have better judgement than to be outwardly open with it in everyday life.

 

[spndrft]

"Suck ONE cock, and Bunny thinks you're automatically 1,000 times hotter than you were before you did it." Oh, wait, that's not it. Damn. Never mind.

I love it when other people just say what I'm thinking.

And, yeah, kidding yourself is easy. I did it for awhile myself. But I know myself well enough that it didn't take me long to realize that I'm not going to lie to myself for the sake of appearances. It hurts too much. When I see people around me throwing themselves into things because they think it's what they're "supposed" to do rather than what they really want or need, I have to wonder what's going on in their heads, especially when I know that they know deep down there's no way in hell it'll ever work out.

The older I get the more I see people do this to themselves. They get so wrapped up in doing what they're "supposed to do" or obtain what's supposed to make them happy (job, house, marriage, 2 SUVs, kids, etc) the less they actually reflect on what they really want/need/desire... are they really happy? Until it all blows up. I suppose that's what a mid-life crisis is.

... so is that the root of it? are people too busy being cogs and just not introspective enough? the porn industry is way too profitable to make me think that people out there aren't at least a little in touch with their fantasies... is there some sort of cultural taboo that blocks peoples' brains from connecting that some fantasies can be translated into reality? particularly with willing and specifically inquiring partners?

Speaking for my Hubby here. And talking about admitting to himself who/what he really is.

*snip*

The way I see it is that, his father was really abusive and violent. And he never wanted to be like him. Admitting his Dominant thought and urges was something that he feared a lot. He feared becoming like his father.

*snip*

I think this is true for a lot of people with this in their family, my husband included. There's two parts to it - dealing with the results of the abuse, and dealing with the parts of yourself that are like that person. When we first got together he couldn't sleep on his back- it made him feel vulnerable and trapped - if something were to happen (fear of being attacked) it would take him 2 seconds longer to jump out of bed. Now, years later, this same person up and tells me the other day that he'd love it if I fully restrained him. I think the "fully embracing his inner Dom (switch)" will take a bit longer... but it's definitely starting to surface

Now back to the OP's question - for him a lot of the difficulty in getting him to discuss sexual fantasies, etc was this totally romantic notion of his that everything sexual "just happens"... like I'm some kind of mind reader who's just going to stumble into every kink and dive right in.... ok... so sometimes that's a little true... BUT we all have limits and i'm sure as hell not going to jump in and start pushing his without knowing for sure what they are. some things you just can't assume...

 

[UpinJersey]

We've had several threads about women--Domme, sub, and switch--and feminism here and how it relates to the female BDSM experience. But off the top of my head, I can't think of any that we've had about the male BDSM experience. It's a topic that's been on my mind a lot lately, so I thought I'd see if anybody else was interested.

In both my job and my personal life, I've encountered a ton of men who, for whatever reason, are seriously closeted over their kinks. It transcends sexual orientation (straight, bi, gay, etc) and BDSM orientation (Dom, switch, sub, etc.). I don't mean that they're the kind of people who live D/s or M/s relationships behind closed doors and don't feel the need to tell others outside their relationships about their lives. I'm talking about the ones who really can't even admit to themselves who and what they are and can't accept what it is they truly need.

Now, before anybody points out that this isn't just a male phenomenon, I realize that. I know there are dozens of threads about accepting oneself as a woman and the influence of feminism and such as that. I'm just singling out men this time because I don't think it's been done before here (though I could obviously be wrong about that).

I talk to men every day who have to hide their submissive or dominant (or both) natures from their wives or girlfriends. I talk to men every day who have ended up divorced or perpetually single because they can't just admit to themselves who they are and what they want. There's also a personal element in this that I may or may not reveal later. I want to see how the thread goes first.
...snip...
I'm just looking for some particular insight, not sweeping generalizations, and I'm having a hard time wording it.

Well, I can only speak for myself.

My particular thing is that I enjoy having orgasm withheld. Take me right to the edge, make me beg, then stop. Ok, maybe "enjoy" isn't the right word. It leaves me fulfilled in a way that orgasm doesn't. It's very difficult to try and explain.

And that is why I don't usually bring it up. How do I explain that the thing "most people" are trying to get out of sex is what I want to be denied? And, believe me, that question comes out quickly. Followed by "Are you sure?"

My first wife just told me I was being stupid and proceded to try and conive and manipulate me into having sex in the way she thought it should happen. I could write a book about what pissed me off about that, but the upshot of it is that it is very difficult for me to be angry and turned-on at the same time.

My second (and current) wife is much more open to alternative lifestyles. When it comes to orgasm denial, she says, "I can't be mean like that." Here's a woman who is willing to try some pretty heavy bondage and pain, but this is too much to ask for.

Sadly, this has led to me being more withdrawn and she being more unhappy with our marriage. If it weren't for the two most wonderful children on earth; then it might be over. As it is, I am hopeful that somehow we can come together (so to speak) on this issue.

If I had another chance, would I bring it up? I can't honestly say that I'd even try again. I can't imagine going through another divorce and then saying, "Well, better luck next time." I could be happy enough on my own, as long as I got to spend sufficient time with my kids (which would be every waking minute - and most of the sleeping ones).

Why would I keep it secret? Well, I suppose at some point the desire to not be alone might overwhelm my feeling that this is just the way I am and there probably isn't going to be someone stumbling across my pathway that can understand it or accept it and be an active partner in it. Having seen how much pain it has brought to two women that I loved, I'd probably not want to ever spring it on another.

Personal pleasure - or sexual fulfillment - has its place. I'm living proof that it isn't the highest place in everyone's life. It's sad - it saddens me to write this. But if 90% of my life with my wife is acceptable and parts of it are even quite wonderful, then the other ten percent isn't enough to risk it all. If I could erase from my wife's memory the idea that I need her to control when I cum, I would do it and suffer in silence for her sake.

So, for me, it doesn't have anything to do with the guys or socialization or anything. What I've wanted most in life since I was about 14 was to be a good father. I love it. I'll give up anything for it. My kids are worth it. Yeah, I get sullen at times and even resentful and wish things were perfect. But they never are.

Ok, I'll stop now before I ramble any further.

 

[Netzach]

Well, I can only speak for myself.

My particular thing is that I enjoy having orgasm withheld. Take me right to the edge, make me beg, then stop. Ok, maybe "enjoy" isn't the right word. It leaves me fulfilled in a way that orgasm doesn't. It's very difficult to try and explain.

And that is why I don't usually bring it up. How do I explain that the thing "most people" are trying to get out of sex is what I want to be denied? And, believe me, that question comes out quickly. Followed by "Are you sure?"

My first wife just told me I was being stupid and proceded to try and conive and manipulate me into having sex in the way she thought it should happen. I could write a book about what pissed me off about that, but the upshot of it is that it is very difficult for me to be angry and turned-on at the same time.

My second (and current) wife is much more open to alternative lifestyles. When it comes to orgasm denial, she says, "I can't be mean like that." Here's a woman who is willing to try some pretty heavy bondage and pain, but this is too much to ask for.

Sadly, this has led to me being more withdrawn and she being more unhappy with our marriage. If it weren't for the two most wonderful children on earth; then it might be over. As it is, I am hopeful that somehow we can come together (so to speak) on this issue.

If I had another chance, would I bring it up? I can't honestly say that I'd even try again. I can't imagine going through another divorce and then saying, "Well, better luck next time." I could be happy enough on my own, as long as I got to spend sufficient time with my kids (which would be every waking minute - and most of the sleeping ones).

Why would I keep it secret? Well, I suppose at some point the desire to not be alone might overwhelm my feeling that this is just the way I am and there probably isn't going to be someone stumbling across my pathway that can understand it or accept it and be an active partner in it. Having seen how much pain it has brought to two women that I loved, I'd probably not want to ever spring it on another.

Personal pleasure - or sexual fulfillment - has its place. I'm living proof that it isn't the highest place in everyone's life. It's sad - it saddens me to write this. But if 90% of my life with my wife is acceptable and parts of it are even quite wonderful, then the other ten percent isn't enough to risk it all. If I could erase from my wife's memory the idea that I need her to control when I cum, I would do it and suffer in silence for her sake.

So, for me, it doesn't have anything to do with the guys or socialization or anything. What I've wanted most in life since I was about 14 was to be a good father. I love it. I'll give up anything for it. My kids are worth it. Yeah, I get sullen at times and even resentful and wish things were perfect. But they never are.

Ok, I'll stop now before I ramble any further.

Could some measure of compromise be enacted in this kind of situation? Obviously it fulfills her when you get off and it fulfills you when you're frustrated, what if you had like a periodic "denial weekend" like some people have dirty weekends?

 

[UpinJersey]

Could some measure of compromise be enacted in this kind of situation? Obviously it fulfills her when you get off and it fulfills you when you're frustrated, what if you had like a periodic "denial weekend" like some people have dirty weekends?

Compromise is always possible. I appreciate the suggestion.

 

[Harlet_Minx]

Well, I can only speak for myself.

My particular thing is that I enjoy having orgasm withheld. Take me right to the edge, make me beg, then stop. Ok, maybe "enjoy" isn't the right word. It leaves me fulfilled in a way that orgasm doesn't. It's very difficult to try and explain.

And that is why I don't usually bring it up. How do I explain that the thing "most people" are trying to get out of sex is what I want to be denied? And, believe me, that question comes out quickly. Followed by "Are you sure?"

My first wife just told me I was being stupid and proceded to try and conive and manipulate me into having sex in the way she thought it should happen. I could write a book about what pissed me off about that, but the upshot of it is that it is very difficult for me to be angry and turned-on at the same time.

My second (and current) wife is much more open to alternative lifestyles. When it comes to orgasm denial, she says, "I can't be mean like that." Here's a woman who is willing to try some pretty heavy bondage and pain, but this is too much to ask for.

Sadly, this has led to me being more withdrawn and she being more unhappy with our marriage. If it weren't for the two most wonderful children on earth; then it might be over. As it is, I am hopeful that somehow we can come together (so to speak) on this issue.

If I had another chance, would I bring it up? I can't honestly say that I'd even try again. I can't imagine going through another divorce and then saying, "Well, better luck next time." I could be happy enough on my own, as long as I got to spend sufficient time with my kids (which would be every waking minute - and most of the sleeping ones).

Why would I keep it secret? Well, I suppose at some point the desire to not be alone might overwhelm my feeling that this is just the way I am and there probably isn't going to be someone stumbling across my pathway that can understand it or accept it and be an active partner in it. Having seen how much pain it has brought to two women that I loved, I'd probably not want to ever spring it on another.

Personal pleasure - or sexual fulfillment - has its place. I'm living proof that it isn't the highest place in everyone's life. It's sad - it saddens me to write this. But if 90% of my life with my wife is acceptable and parts of it are even quite wonderful, then the other ten percent isn't enough to risk it all. If I could erase from my wife's memory the idea that I need her to control when I cum, I would do it and suffer in silence for her sake.

So, for me, it doesn't have anything to do with the guys or socialization or anything. What I've wanted most in life since I was about 14 was to be a good father. I love it. I'll give up anything for it. My kids are worth it. Yeah, I get sullen at times and even resentful and wish things were perfect. But they never are.

Ok, I'll stop now before I ramble any further.

You know i can completely relate to this though my own experiences differ. For me I have absolutely no reaction to sexual pleasure, nor pain for that matter. I've found that mentally I don't make connections with the physical sensations my body experiences (I've tried near everything I can think of at this point)... frankly it's a bit difficult in sessions where someone is trying to elicit reactions. Now I'm not insinuating that this is what you have but one thing I've found is that the right dom/me can cause me to react in a much stronger way with a look or a word and that if I feel a connection with a dominant personality it's not so much the act as it is the eroticism behind it. The interesting thing is that the erotic and the sexual can have virtually no connection. I think this is more what you're wrestling with. Your partners feel the need to fulfill a sexual desire where what you seek could possibly be a erotic sensation, based a internal pleasure as apposed to the physical?

I also have a theory on humiliation. Societies as a whole are beneficial, they give a outlet for connecting and growth and within societies are sub societies. However, as a society grows large enough and encompasses other sub societies the common trend is that the majority (or in some cases those with the loudest voices) speak for the whole. What ends up happening is rather then a society defined by it's individuals we instead have individuals defined by their society. I feel this is where humiliation comes into play, it can be caused by anything from BDSM, the clothes we wear, or who we're friends with because they extend out of our predefined state. Humiliation is good if we grow from it, it's a release of those standards. And if we grow, allows us to better define ourselves. Personally I think men need a masculinist movement... maybe they can wave their jock straps through the air, burning them.

Meh, just a musing.
-Alli

 

[manipulatrix]

Years of poking around in submissive men's heads and I've noticed this, too. And I've heard alot of the reasons already listed: societal pressures to be "normal" and "macho" etc etc. Also I think that the puritanical elements of generations past are still echoing through us today.

There was no sex-positive community stuff going on in the past. Even when "sexual liberation" hit, there wasn't an open acceptance of deviance from norms. Even now, when there is a sex-is-good kind of mentality swirling around out there, we're talking about taboos... which by definition aren't widely accepted.

Speaking of taboos, I think some people stay closeted on their kinks/fetishes/submissiveness/dominance (pick your label) BECAUSE they get off ON it being taboo. If they opened the closet door and there was a welcoming committee singing kumbaya?? They'd lose their erection!!! It's just not fun if it isn't forbidden and/or embarrassing.

I'd also agree with the comments about marrying/dating within the vanilla world because there is a notion of no one would want them and their dirty kinks. I've heard soooo many men talking about this very thing. I think it's partially that they don't think that women would accept their kink,etc (pyl) ... but also this notion that submissive men aren't sexually attractive.

There is a notion that (for men) submissive = weak. That submissive = eunich. That submissive = sexually out of the loop. For men who aren't actually weak, eunich-y, or nonsexual? This has to be a bit of a turn off.

How can you embrace your sexuality if you think that your sexuality means you aren't going to get any sex ever again? So they curl up in vanilla marriages because that is how you get the american dream - you do the check-lists of "shoulds". And if they venture into the closeted kink/submission, they visit a prodomme or they play anonymous on the computer or they call a phone sex line... they pay someone to tolerate their distasteful dirty kinky/submissive side.

 

[BiBunny]

How can you embrace your sexuality if you think that your sexuality means you aren't going to get any sex ever again? So they curl up in vanilla marriages because that is how you get the american dream - you do the check-lists of "shoulds". And if they venture into the closeted kink/submission, they visit a prodomme or they play anonymous on the computer or they call a phone sex line... they pay someone to tolerate their distasteful dirty kinky/submissive side.

And THAT is what breaks my heart.

 

[priapiscean]

Netzach throws down the gauntlet, and it is beautifully said:

"I mean when people are out there in the single pool trying to get together, why on earth would you let that chance to get what you need slip past?"

My empathy goes out to those in small towns where conformity is a survival necessity. I suppose once could always just move -- a bi friend of mine just up and moved to a new place. BUT, courage is a double-edged sword. Non-conformists *always* risk *something*. Fortune favors the bold, I suppose.

 

[ivantheterrible]

go beyond caring what others think.
this is in everyday life. whether your kink is obvious or not.
all people are taught to hide what is truely themselves because of shame.
i am pretty out there, although i don't wear leather and swing a chain in public.
i have a half mohawk hair cut, tatooes, and large ear plugs in my pierced ears(i use snapping turtle claws, or deer antlers in them, so far.)
i don't give a fuck what others think of me. (another thing that drove me and ex apart, she is too much of a goody two shoes from a highly christian background and worried of what others thought of her).
many men are taught to think that it is ok to be one way, but to be the true self is another. and they KNOW this is not accptable, and it is not acceptable to find a woman who is as kinky as they are. that goes into the woman being a slut factor. and men are not suppose to have long term relationship with a "slut". they are suppose to have a good little girl they can bring home to "mommy".
i gave all that shit up a looooooong time ago.

 

[Adakgirl]

Not going to hijack your thread BiBunny but.......I need to comment about this mans problem.

My second (and current) wife is much more open to alternative lifestyles. When it comes to orgasm denial, she says, "I can't be mean like that." Here's a woman who is willing to try some pretty heavy bondage and pain, but this is too much to ask for.

No, it is not too much to ask, it is a simple request and in fact it's a very easy thing to give you. You only brought it up one time with her? Was there any discussion after she said she couldn't be mean like that? Or where you too ashamed to explain to her that by denying you, she was being nice to you and not mean at all? This seems to be a strong need and desire in you. Don't give up... think of all the positive responses possibly can...to explain away any possible excuses or reasons she may have NOT to allow you this simple pleasure. Then bring it up at the right time in the right place. Make sure you tell her ahead of time that you need to discuss something that is really important to you.

 

[SpectreT]

"To thine own self be true..." Ever wonder why The Bard put such wise words in the mouth of an otherwise uninspiring and foppish coward?

Physically, men are (in general) more friendly with risk from a younger age; mentally and emotionally, however? Conformity, anonymity, security. The one choice we have is to either say "Fuckit. I only got one shot at this life, and it's too short to be all emo about liking it rough up the bum from a 4'11" 90-pound blonde girl with a strapon while I'm in a French Maid costume with my nuts in a vise.", or to suck it up and hold a mask up to everyone.

OTOH, most guys don't have a way to know if a scenario like I described would ever work for them, unless they found that little blonde spitfire -then they'd be all big-eyed and solemnly say "We will never speak of this again." scared shitless of liking it.

 

[Pleasantnoodles]

My View

I'm going to start this off by admitting that I read only about 60% of the posts on this thread (they excited me to share my own viewpoint so badly that I just skipped to replying... I'll go back and read the other, so I apologize if I'm repeating somebody's viewpoint or something).

I have known from a very young age (about 8) that something was odd about me. Stereotypically I always wanted to be the robber in cops and robbers, and even tied up my LEGO men. However it wasn't until the puberty masturbatory years that I learned what it was I actually liked. And since then I have very eagerly looked forward to college so that I could get out form my mother's umbrella and be who I am without fear that anyone in my family will find out.

Well surprise surprise I am now in those sought after college years and am still having problems expressing who I am... even to myself. I have a wonderful girlfriend who has been very very accepting and she has meant the world to me, she's gotten past a lot of my guilt, but I just can't seem to shake the last bits of it.

See, I keep running into a roadblock... and that is the social roadblock. I keep telling myself that nobody cares and that it's not bad, but if it isn't then why aren't kinky people accepted? Not only are we not accepted, but we are downright frowned upon. From what I can tell (and I am new to the scene, well watching the scene, so I may be wrong about this), but doctor's have to turn in their patient's "abuser" when they notice marks... no matter how much the patient explains that it was consensual, and some states even have laws against "consensual assault".

Even from a non-legal standpoint I constantly hear my peers belittling the openly kinky people around me (I go to a VERY large art school, so we get all sorts of fun people), and the sad thing is that I am a Head Resident Assistant at this school, and I can't let ANYONE find out about me for fear that the RAs I am in charge of won't respect me and thus I won't be able to do my job.

I also wanted to mention that the girlfriend I mentioned previously is the best thing to ever happen to me, but unfortunately she has one tiny flaw: she isn't not into BDSM, she just does it to make me happy. Which of course frustrates me since I want a proper owner, which she has no ability to provide, no matter how much she wants it. I am also not willing to leave her, because I really do love her deeply, and want to be with her.

So all of these things are giving me the impression that BDSM must be a bad thing. So I repress myself to save my sanity. If I were to let my sub switch be turned on all the time, I would go mad from not having an owner.

Wow, that was depressing to say. I think I need to end this post on a lighter note: Did you know that Walmart is the second biggest employer of people in the world? Only the Chinese Army consistently hires more people.

P.S. Sorry if I sounded whiny or melodramatic, I just wanted to give my viewpoint.

 

[Homburg]

Pleasantnoodles, just about everyone lives with hiding it. While it may not be wrong, it is different. As such, it is often more convenient to just keep mum on it.

As to your girlfriend, be happy, man. Most guys don't even get what you are getting. And, honestly, if you're in college, she is young. She may well have the potential to be a proper owner, but hasn't grown into it yet. While it seems like many submissives are ready to hop right in, and awful lot of dominant folk that I've talked to took some time adjusting to the role, especially when they are younger. Give her a chance.

 

[Netzach]

Devil's advocacy - really ask yourself if you think this is going to change and if you honestly can be happy without it.

You never know how serious or not serious a relationship you are in. I got into one at 19 I thought would not be serious. It was. It lasted seven years, five of which were good.

Everything about it was good except I'm Dominant and he wasn't capable of entertaining my sadism/sexual interests even lightly.

The sex wasn't even bad. It was great, passionate, totally vanilla sex.

Eventually that tension poisoned the relationship.

I have regrets, but one of them is not that it was the only love I ever had and I lost it. I found someone I don't have to stifle my sexuality to keep.

 

[esales]

I would never consider myself a Dom or a sub. What I am is a sadist. I think I was aware of that fact from an early age. However, you are right. If I were to admit it to anyone I would have instantly been been given a label and shunned by the rest of humanity. I am not a wife beater as my wife of 38 years will attest to. I have never raised my hand to her or any other woman save for a good spanking now and again. I first learned of my wife's kink when I suprised her in the shower while she was trying to push a straight pin into her breast. Being the nice guy that I am I offered to help and we have been at it every since. ) Now that I am retired I could care less what someone might think of me. Still we live in a very small town and for my wife's benifit we do have to keep it to ourselves.

 

[HarlotMinx]

WARNING: I'm about to pretend that I know anything about what I'm talking about... feel free to disregard me as nonsense.

I think the main issue is men have never had a masculinist movement. I mean, the majority of the feminist movement was about breaking free from the traditional gender role of women or rather breaking free from being bound to that role. Unfortunately men are just as bound to a gender role as women were/are and unfortunately the feminist movement even further compounded the issue.

Male subs have to face the traditional concept of masculinity and the oh..... 20 billion things that jeopardize that masculinity. I find it hilarious how many men love anal stimulation but would rather die than admit it because it makes them question that idea that they are still male. More than that, they're afraid of judgments from both men and women. I've found that these men tend to impose really strict boundaries on what they'll do and how. Like they'll suck cock but not cum, and that a man can fuck them in the ass but can't kiss them. I think theirs also a group who in order to submit have to completely divorce themselves of their masculine identity temporarily only to re don it later.

Dom males have another problem entirely, they are often limited by the politically correct concept of how you treat men. Not that it stops them from spanking some adorable girl but rather the fear that whoever they come out to will be absolutely offended by the notion and reject them.

The rare and valuable male is the one who can be content to simply be. They're comfortable in whatever they are and don't give a shit about other people's negative views. These come as both subs and doms and really are worth their weight in gold... or whips if you rather.

But like it was said in the beginning of this thread, these mindsets don't know a racial, socioeconomic, or even gender limit. I guess the real culprit here is the idea of roles. They tell people how they're supposed to live their lives and people are fearful to break that role. Kind of one of the issues with BDSM actually because there's suck emphasis on roles and we often try to create rules to them. "subs have to act this way, if you act that way you're a bottom." or "No sub can do that, that's not a sub's role" or "A slaves have only such and such right!"

 

[Netzach]

WARNING: I'm about to pretend that I know anything about what I'm talking about... feel free to disregard me as nonsense.

I think the main issue is men have never had a masculinist movement. I mean, the majority of the feminist movement was about breaking free from the traditional gender role of women or rather breaking free from being bound to that role. Unfortunately men are just as bound to a gender role as women were/are and unfortunately the feminist movement even further compounded the issue.

I think that men can actually find themselves to a degree within feminism, if they can handle the idea that they have undue privilege and get over it instead of being defensive about women reacting to that fact and be willing to make alliances with women trying to change the playing field for everyone.

Feminism furthered *does* benefit men - without feminism there would be no slow but significant rise in the stay at home Dad phenomenon, or the increase, slow but significant, in paternal involvement - men struggling for acceptance as nurturers and carers and involved in their families, doing traditionally "female" things.

There are definitely ways to find oneself individualistically that draw on male and female assigned roles, without losing one's manhood or masculinity. There's something very attractive about a man comfortable in his skin this way.