Moderator - Zensur und Weenieschnitzel

[MelancholicDreamer]

So free speech here is just for German speakers? Nice.
:

I thought just Americans are most sensitive to free speech.
The point here is free speech and stiff necked censorship.

 

[MelancholicDreamer]

Links to outside web sites of any kind other that a homepage of the poster are prohibited. The primary reason is that the owners are offering a free site here and do not wish to promote other sites, of any kind.

The second reason is that so many sites do not have the spam amd virus protections that are provided on Lit. The owners feel that to protect their visitors that they will prohibit access to sites outside of Lit. Again with the exception of a personal web site of a poster or thread owner.

I wonder about huge number of threads dealing only with links to outer web sites, for instance to other erotic sites....

Most of my malware I got by Lit...

 

[Verstiegenheit]

Links to outside web sites of any kind other that a homepage of the poster are prohibited. The primary reason is that the owners are offering a free site here and do not wish to promote other sites, of any kind.

Actually the guidelines say:


Forum Guidelines:

6. Any posts made with the intent of promoting another site or a product will be removed. You may not send unsolicited PM's or emails to other users trying to promote other websites or products. Literotica is not a place to promote other websites, and we are very strict on this issue. If you abuse this policy, you will be banned.


To say that by posting a link to the most popular search engine on the web in response to a request by another user shows any intent of promoting another site is at least ridiculous, and at most persecutory.


While we're at it:

1) I deleted the first thread I am accussed for, for the reason that someone asked about an illigal subject. The user asked for a special kind of stories, which are forbidden in Lit (in accordance with the rules). In the moment I am not sure if I can name the forbidden subject here. And the starter of the thread informed me via email, that he agrees to the fact that the thread was deleted. I saved the email as a proof. Again: It was an email by the thread starter.

The guidelines say:


Forum Guidelines:

2. You may not post sexually explicit pictures or stories featuring anyone under 18 years old. Literotica does not allow the posting of underage or animal sex pictures - or links to such - on the forum.


No where in the guidelines does it say that any subject can't be discussed or asked about.


So we had posts/threads deleted for asking about prohibited themes (which is not in accordance to the guidelines); posts/threads deleted at the request of the poster/thread starter (which is not in accordance to the guidelines); and posts/threads deleted for posting links without any intent of promoting other sites or products (which is not in accordance to the guidelines).


I have to ask: was ANY of the things done by the moderator so far in accordance to the guidelines?

 

[MaverickMan]

I wonder about huge number of threads dealing only with links to outer web sites, for instance to other erotic sites....

Most of my malware I got by Lit...

Exactly the point. There is a little button in each post allowing the reader to report a post that includes links, or anything else that violates Lit rules. And consider the number of posts made here daily. The moderators in each section that has mods are stretched to the limit, in most cases, to keep up with monitoring what is posted. And in areas like the GB, the posters are expected to self police, as it were, by reporting violations. Then Laurel or Manu can take appropriate action.

No one can catch everything that is damaging but this site is fairly clean of damaging links because of the dilligence of the posters and the mods. You take your own risks opening unpermitted links, Don't blame the site or the mods for your curiosity.

 

[sybilrose]

Looks like we are still hard at it in here

Free Speech
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
exercise therof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the
people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

Is this the one thats causing all the debate? I fail to see where this means you cant spell check or edit for better understanding or even change your mind about what you wanted to say. As far as deleting someone elses post I think Weenie already said he used poor judgement in that case.
Personally I wish we all had the abilty to edit the threads we started. Latley people in some threads have found free speech to mean you can upload foul pictures and say hurtfull things in which ever thread they please. To me thats the same as walking into a persons house and taking a shit then saying they can do that because of the first ammendment.(this is my thought on the subject not Lits) I am sure some of the lawyers on Lit can tell us about all the examples that go to court crying my first ammendment rights and loose.

If I am all wet about this just tell me I can take correction but I see no reason to attack. I am thankfull for the freedom of speech and the no censorship policy in Lit but cant we use it for good?

 

[MaverickMan]

Actually the guidelines say:


Forum Guidelines:

6. Any posts made with the intent of promoting another site or a product will be removed. You may not send unsolicited PM's or emails to other users trying to promote other websites or products. Literotica is not a place to promote other websites, and we are very strict on this issue. If you abuse this policy, you will be banned.


To say that by posting a link to the most popular search engine on the web in response to a request by another user shows any intent of promoting another site is at least ridiculous, and at most persecutory.


I have to ask: was ANY of the things done by the moderator so far in accordance to the guidelines?

So bending the rules is OK in some cases but not others? A search engine has advertisments and can have malware attached and is a for profit enterprise. An email or a PM to the individual can communicate the same info without putting it in the thread.

I never said that there were not mistakes made. It is not for me to judge. Weenie offered an apology for anything he might have done which was wrong. He has been doing his job to the best of his ability and is still learning as I hope we all are. When you stop learning you are dead.

Maybe he will examine this incident and adjust his thinking if he feels he was wrong. Don't kick a person for trying to do a responsible job. He has been informed of everyone's opinion on the subject and, so it seems, has adjusted his thinking where appropriate.

Please remember that mods are volunteers doing a sometimes very frustrating job.

 

[Verstiegenheit]

So bending the rules is OK in some cases but not others? A search engine has advertisments and can have malware attached and is a for profit enterprise. An email or a PM to the individual can communicate the same info without putting it in the thread.

What do you mean "bending the rules"? If I post a link in response to a request made by another poster, I'm not braking or bending any rules. It is neither unsolicited nor made with the intent of promoting anything. It's information.

I know moderators are volunteers trying to do the best they can, but it would be nice if they went through the trouble of at least reading the guidelines before editing or deleting another person's posts. You know, to make sure they can.

 

[MaverickMan]

What do you mean "bending the rules"? If I post a link in response to a request made by another poster, I'm not braking or bending any rules. It is neither unsolicited nor made with the intent of promoting anything. It's information.

I know moderators are volunteers trying to do the best they can, but it would be nice if they went through the trouble of at least reading the guidelines before editing or deleting another person's posts. You know, to make sure they can.

I am not trying to be a jerk here. But a link to a search engine is a link to another site and is promoting it. Links to other sites are prohibited. There is an exception made in some forum rules, not the main Lit rules, for permitting links to an individual's home page, and I believe that there are even restrictions about pay sites, etc., included in that. I don't have the time to look it up.

The main emphasis for that aspect of the rule being the computer safety of Lit users. To avoid pop-ups and malware.

 

[Verstiegenheit]

Personally I wish we all had the abilty to edit the threads we started. Latley people in some threads have found free speech to mean you can upload foul pictures and say hurtfull things in which ever thread they please. To me thats the same as walking into a persons house and taking a shit then saying they can do that because of the first ammendment.

Going back to the guidelines again, we have:

3. Do not post /hotlink copyrighted images or articles in their entirety. Fair use laws allow some posting of copyrighted material, such as excerpts from articles and screen captures from movies, under certain circumstances. Please do a Google search under "Fair Use" if you want to understand this issue better.

This means that you can report more than 90% of those foul images and the moderators will have grounds to edit the images out of those posts.

As for the hurtful things people say, Lit also offers a solution:

You may post whatever you like. Consequently, so can everyone else. The administrators here don't believe they are anyone's parents nor are they anyone's Jiminy Cricket. It's not their responsibility to make sure that everyone on the site uses free speech responsibly. It's up to individual users to be responsible for themselves. For those who are not, the programmers at Jelsoft have added an ignore function for your convenience.

 

[Verstiegenheit]

I am not trying to be a jerk here. But a link to a search engine is a link to another site and is promoting it. Links to other sites are prohibited. There is an exception made in some forum rules, not the main Lit rules, for permitting links to an individual's home page, and I believe that there are even restrictions about pay sites, etc., included in that. I don't have the time to look it up.

The main emphasis for that aspect of the rule being the computer safety of Lit users. To avoid pop-ups and malware.

But that's simply not true. Go to the guidelines and read them: External links are not prohibited. SPAM is. Links and unsolicited advertising messages. There is a very clear distinction.


EDITED to add:
Do you think this post made by Manu is against the guidelines and should be deleted? I count three external links in it.


EDITED again to add:
This is Lit's policy regarding links to other sites:

We do not allow links to any adult pay sites. We also reserve the right to remove signatures which link to sites with numerous annoying pop-ups, viruses, or anything else potentially harmful to people's computers.

This implicitly means that external links are OK, as long as they're not to a) adult pay sites; b) blatant or unsolicited advertising; c) sites with pop-ups, viruses, etc.

 

[MelancholicDreamer]

There is a little button in each post allowing the reader to report a post that includes links, or anything else that violates Lit rules. And consider the number of posts made here daily. The moderators in each section that has mods are stretched to the limit, in most cases, to keep up with monitoring what is posted. And in areas like the GB, the posters are expected to self police, as it were, by reporting violations. Then Laurel or Manu can take appropriate action.

Ops. where are you living? Never had a look to other sites of Lit? Where the real porn stuff is submitted? Where real violation not only of the rules of Lit takes place, where the copyright gets severly violated? I never got experienced any press of a stupid button caused any reaction of Laurel and I was reporting very severe violations like snuff stories.

I complain the stiff necked interpretation of our 2 Lines Guy here. Acting like a typical German, never taking the value of free speech in account, only with his unquestioned obediance as the ppl in Third Reich did...

I for myself would prefer a part of the German section without any mods. I bet there would happen more visits.

 

[MaverickMan]

Going back to the guidelines again, we have:

3. Do not post /hotlink copyrighted images or articles in their entirety. Fair use laws allow some posting of copyrighted material, such as excerpts from articles and screen captures from movies, under certain circumstances. Please do a Google search under "Fair Use" if you want to understand this issue better.

This means that you can report more than 90% of those foul images and the moderators will have grounds to edit the images out of those posts.

As for the hurtful things people say, Lit also offers a solution:

You may post whatever you like. Consequently, so can everyone else. The administrators here don't believe they are anyone's parents nor are they anyone's Jiminy Cricket. It's not their responsibility to make sure that everyone on the site uses free speech responsibly. It's up to individual users to be responsible for themselves. For those who are not, the programmers at Jelsoft have added an ignore function for your convenience.

I agree with you. One can turn on the ignore feature and not see the posts but everyone else who comes in sees the stuff you find objectionable.

While many people start threads like they were individual posts, like the person Sybilrose was refering to and never return, many of us consider our threads our homes on Lit. We try to make them as friendly and pleasant as possible.
What was done to her thread and mine is like someone painting the front of your house with statements of hate in big red letters. It is vandalism and you can't blame the thread owner for being mad. We can't paint over the hate messages in our homes here on Lit. We have to live with that but we are entitled to be angry about it.

Thank you for the thoughtful way you are discussing this.

 

[LakotaMoon]

Acting like a typical German, never taking the value of free speech in account, only with his unquestioned obediance as the ppl in Third Reich did...

I for myself would prefer a part of the German section without any mods. I bet there would happen more visits.

I for myself would prefer a discussion without the whole "Third Reich" issue! Do you really think this is necessary?!

 

[MelancholicDreamer]

I for myself would prefer a discussion without the whole "Third Reich" issue! Do you really think this is necessary?!

I'd like to draw ppls attention to the way how the mind of the "2 Lines Guy" is working.

But anyway, if you like we can go without it. I think I made this point clear.

 

[Verstiegenheit]

I agree with you. One can turn on the ignore feature and not see the posts but everyone else who comes in sees the stuff you find objectionable.

While many people start threads like they were individual posts, like the person Sybilrose was refering to and never return, many of us consider our threads our homes on Lit. We try to make them as friendly and pleasant as possible.
What was done to her thread and mine is like someone painting the front of your house with statements of hate in big red letters. It is vandalism and you can't blame the thread owner for being mad. We can't paint over the hate messages in our homes here on Lit. We have to live with that but we are entitled to be angry about it.

Yes, I can understand people feeling mad at it. The only suggestion I can make, barring the reporting of copyrighted images, is to bury them with new posts. Soon enough, they'll slip from view.

Thank you for the thoughtful way you are discussing this.

Thanks.

 

[Gero38]

Someone had the dignity to say he was sorry if he did something wrong.
Instead of launching in a low-level-grammar-fight, someone should have the personal standing (?) and grace to accept this apology.

Just MHO.

@ ALL : THAT's IT !!!

@ ALL : CALM DOWN

@ LakotaMoon (One of the best (out of three - I think) on german Lit)
Let's name it grace ...

@ N8dreams (One of the best (out of three - I think) on german Lit)
Please keep on (or return to) writing an keep on posting ...

@ MelancholicDreamer : C A L M D O W N
"Someone had the dignity to say he was sorry if he did something wrong. "
Important: please no third reich discussion - That's over - more than 60 years(!)

@ Maverick and Verstiegenheit
Should'nt your discussion being continued in a new thread ?

 

[MaverickMan]

Ops. where are you living? Never had a look to other sites of Lit? Where the real porn stuff is submitted? Where real violation not only of the rules of Lit takes place, where the copyright gets severly violated? I never got experienced any press of a stupid button caused any reaction of Laurel and I was reporting very severe violations like snuff stories.

I complain the stiff necked interpretation of our 2 Lines Guy here. Acting like a typical German, never taking the value of free speech in account, only with his unquestioned obediance as the ppl in Third Reich did...

I for myself would prefer a part of the German section without any mods. I bet there would happen more visits.

2 lines is what most people on lit use, if that. So quit singling him out for that. Geez.

A typical German like you? Stiff necked and won't accept the fact that Weenie has offered an apology and is learning how to better do his job. There are no typical any type of people. No typical Germans, no typical Americans or French or any other nationality.

Seems Germans bring up the Third Riech as much as anyone else. And it is not part of this discussion.

Lit is not perfect. Laurel and Manu are not perfect. Time is limited for everybody and things will get through in a site this big and fast moving. And you complain because someone is trying to do the right thing and keep the part of Lit that he was asked to watch, free of violations. You said you thought he was wrong and he acknowledged that he may have erred and offered an apology. Let it go.

Like a dog with a bone.

 

[Verstiegenheit]

@ Maverick and Verstiegenheit
Should'nt your discussion being continued in a new thread ?

No. The purpose of the discussion (at least on my part) is to show Weenieschnitzel what the guidelines say and how he misinterpreted them, so that it doesn't happen again.

 

[N8Dreams]

@ N8dreams (One of the best (out of three - I think) on german Lit)
Please keep on (or return to) writing an keep on posting ...

Thanks.
I have appreciated all contributions.
Lets do more important things.
I think the notorious guy got his lesson.

 

[LakotaMoon]

@ ALL : THAT's IT !!!

@ ALL : CALM DOWN

@ LakotaMoon (One of the best (out of three - I think) on german Lit)
Let's name it grace ...

@ N8dreams (One of the best (out of three - I think) on german Lit)
Please keep on (or return to) writing an keep on posting ...

@ MelancholicDreamer : C A L M D O W N
"Someone had the dignity to say he was sorry if he did something wrong. "
Important: please no third reich discussion - That's over - more than 60 years(!)

Exactely.
And thanks!

 

[Gero38]

No. The purpose of the discussion (at least on my part) is to show Weenieschnitzel what the guidelines say and how he misinterpreted them, so that it doesn't happen again.

Keep in mind: No one ist perfect.

 

[Gero38]

Thanks.
I have appreciated all contributions.
Lets do more important things.
I think the notorious guy got his lesson.

Thank YOU

.. and in return

Yes - lets do more important things.


I'm pleased you returned answering my posting.

 

[MaverickMan]

But that's simply not true. Go to the guidelines and read them: External links are not prohibited. SPAM is. Links and unsolicited advertising messages. There is a very clear distinction.


EDITED to add:
Do you think this post made by Manu is against the guidelines and should be deleted? I count three external links in it.


EDITED again to add:
This is Lit's policy regarding links to other sites:

We do not allow links to any adult pay sites. We also reserve the right to remove signatures which link to sites with numerous annoying pop-ups, viruses, or anything else potentially harmful to people's computers.

This implicitly means that external links are OK, as long as they're not to a) adult pay sites; b) blatant or unsolicited advertising; c) sites with pop-ups, viruses, etc.

Manu and Laurel are agents of the owners and their links are included to provide protective information. They are subject to the owners review as we are subject to the review of Manu and Laurel and the Mods they have appointed.

If we have a complaint about things that are removed, we are free to discuss it with the authorities, mods and others and, time allowing, they will respond as Weenie did.

The system works reasonably well if we don't tear each other to shreds. Calm discussions and pointing out perceived errors politely accomplishes more.

 

[Gero38]

Exactely.
And thanks!

Thank YOU !

 

[Verstiegenheit]

Manu and Laurel are agents of the owners and their links are included to provide protective information.

Manu and Laurel are the owners themselves.

The links on that thread were only an unassailable example. The bottom line is that, as the guidelines show, posting external links is not prohibited. Only some external links, under well-defined situations.