Money Issues Between PYLs and pyls

[Bandit58]

Master and I share expenses. We are both on welfare (He disability, me as His carer) and we get approximately the same amount each a fortnight. We each pay half the rent, He buys His own cigarettes, and pays for His own medication most of the time. I buy most of the food. If we go out one of us buys drinks the other the meal.

I have more money than He does in the bank, from my marriage settlement. But that is mine, He does not touch it and has no access to it and that is the way He wants it. I have two credit cards and we buy stuff on eBay or online and I pay for it, but most of it is for me or us (new toys ) so doesn't matter. We don't keep count of who paid for what and how much. We have separate bank accounts but I know His PIN number so I am able to get money out for Him if He is too ill to go out. Bills like electricity and phone are either taken turns to pay or paid half and half depending on who's got the most money in the kitty

When my father became ill my mother very quickly had to learn how to pay the bills and manage the money. Dad had done all that though luckily they did have the foresight to have a joint account. She didn't know how to write a cheque or use a debit card When he became too ill to sign his name she took over everything, but it was quite a learning curve for her and she has had a few bad experiences where she forgot her PIN number! He passed away in March and by then she had been doing everything for around two years, so dealing with lawyers and welfare agencies and banks wasn't quite as daunting for her by then. Not that they were in any kind of D/s relationship (I don't think!) but it was the way things were done when they married in the late '50s. Dad would give her an allowance every week and that was what she paid for everything out of. She never learned to drive or worked outside the home when she married.

I fell into that trap when I married in the late '70s.....I married a farmer when I was 19 and I did not have a driver's licence at the time, so I never worked other than on the farm for the next 20 odd years. When I got out of that I found breaking back into the workforce was damn near impossible and apart from part time work as a teacher aide and 6 months work based training in an office I am not qualified to do anything much I am self taught on the computer and don't have any paper qualifications. I know it's impossible for me to work right now with Master being ill a lot, and my age (late 40s) is also a problem - I know they say it's illegal to discriminate on age grounds but yeah it's done a lot

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Interesting. Did you know that money is like the number one destroyer of relationships? Good thing that you are dealing with these issues NOW and not waiting until they blow up in your face. That pretty much sucks.

When JohnnyMayberry and I were doing the long distance thing, we straight up decided who was going to pay for what. Just talked it out, without any domly/subly brou-ha-ha to cloud the issues. He would pay for x-y-z and I would pay for a-b-c. We are both realists, and frankly, when it comes to money, dahlin', I don't think there's any place for anything BUT straight up realism.

I don't fuck around with money. Ever. After getting fucked over by my ex-husband, I thought I had learned a valuable but very painful lesson. Never trust anyone with your money but yourself.

Now that we are married, I manage the money in our home, at his request. For quite awhile, only I had access to the checking account, and he just cashed his checks, and gave me funds for bills. Today, I've finally eased up, and we now have a joint checking account. It's taken me awhile to get to that point, and I'm proud that I was able to do so.

We talk about all our purchases, we save for things we want, we contribute to our 401Ks. We have a plan.

The most important thing, though, is like I said before. We don't let BDSM dictate how we handle our money. That is just plain....silly.

~Anelize

 

[Etoile]

Anelize, lovely to see you.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Anelize, lovely to see you.

Thanks, Etoile. I'm around.

~Anelize

 

[chris9]

Killi, I can understand a lot about feeling obliged. Maybe he doesn't pay to get anything out of you, but at least for me it always was very hard to refuse something after seeing how he paid for expensive stuff. The odd pizza or ice-cream or whatever, fine. But when it comes to fancy dinners and/or shows/theatre, I feel like I have to repay him in one way or another. In one relationship, where he paid our dates, gave me expensive (and/or labor intensive) gifts for christmas and birthday I kept going with it for a longer time before breaking up than I wanted, because I just felt guilty and as if I had a debt I had to repay.
If you feel like this, and he knows, and still wants to pay, the best way is to repay by doing other things, like some around suggested.

For me, in my present relationship, money doesn't really matter that much. We both have about the same money, him a little more, so he pays a little more. We have each our own account and then a joint one for the apartment/food matters. Right now I have less money because of some course I'm taking, so I put almost all my monthly money into our apartment. He has some more money, so sometimes he makes me pay for my own stuff (like clothes) from our joint account, thus paying half of it.

 

[romurs]

This attitude kills me. Fucking feminists. When men treat you like a lady it's nothing but pissing and moaning about how "women can pay their own way" and then when men STOP opening doors and paying for things, it's nothing but bitching and pissing and moaning about how men never treat women like ladies. Can't fucking have your cake and eat it too. Goddamn women. Enough to make a man go gay.

 

[chris9]

This attitude kills me. Fucking feminists. When men treat you like a lady it's nothing but pissing and moaning about how "women can pay their own way" and then when men STOP opening doors and paying for things, it's nothing but bitching and pissing and moaning about how men never treat women like ladies. Can't fucking have your cake and eat it too. Goddamn women. Enough to make a man go gay.

True enough... Still, opening doors and paying EVERYTHING are different things. We have been talking about how some men seem to be buying women in bars and such by buying them drinks, expecting sex in return (check out the Café). So at least for me it works when every now and then he is the complete gentleman, asking me out, opening doors, helping me into my coat, paying for me, bringing me flowers. But that's luxury, so it won't do to overindulge it. That would make me feel strange and bored and indebted. So it's (like everything) a darker or lighter, brighter or softer color depending on the persons involved, never black and white.

 

[sunfox]

This attitude kills me. Fucking feminists. When men treat you like a lady it's nothing but pissing and moaning about how "women can pay their own way" and then when men STOP opening doors and paying for things, it's nothing but bitching and pissing and moaning about how men never treat women like ladies. Can't fucking have your cake and eat it too. Goddamn women. Enough to make a man go gay.

I have absolutely no problem with a man paying for everything.

I also have absolutely no problem with me paying for everything.

Or with some mix thereof.

However, I do expect men to open doors for me. It's polite, and I'm lazy. *snaps her fingers* Do it now!



Hmm. That wasn't a very subbish thing to say, was it?

Rosco, by the way, can take me out anytime.

 

[Netzach]

Perk of being a Top # 254

I feel not a whit of obligation and I only piss and moan when someone doesn't bend over backwards. So much clearer. Fuckin' feminists indeed.

 

[jasonlf]

True enough... Still, opening doors and paying EVERYTHING are different things. We have been talking about how some men seem to be buying women in bars and such by buying them drinks, expecting sex in return (check out the Café). So at least for me it works when every now and then he is the complete gentleman, asking me out, opening doors, helping me into my coat, paying for me, bringing me flowers. But that's luxury, so it won't do to overindulge it. That would make me feel strange and bored and indebted. So it's (like everything) a darker or lighter, brighter or softer color depending on the persons involved, never black and white.

See, Chris, the problem is, with nice guys like me... who do stuff like that out of kindness... maybe trying to open a door for conversation -- but no indecent expectations... every woman who goes in expecting, assuming that I'm wanting sex, just for buying her a drink automatically assumes that I'm an asshole. That's not cool at all. Sometimes a drink is just a drink, yannow?

 

[chris9]

See, Chris, the problem is, with nice guys like me... who do stuff like that out of kindness... maybe trying to open a door for conversation -- but no indecent expectations... every woman who goes in expecting, assuming that I'm wanting sex, just for buying her a drink automatically assumes that I'm an asshole. That's not cool at all. Sometimes a drink is just a drink, yannow?

I know, that's included in the colors. Personally, I prefer it if guys just come up to talk, dance, whatever, depending where I am. I don't expect them to buy me drinks and I sure talk to them even if they don't. So, once we're talking, they can buy a drink. Though just getting to know each other, if I want to talk to him any longer, I'll buy the next round.
And if any guy comes up with some 'hey, wanna drink' kind of thing, yes, I do think he's an asshole. If he comes up smiling at me, maybe a small compliment (like 'I like the way you smile/dance', preferably not the way I look, so I know they have been looking at me for a bit, not just coming up doing the same thing with every girl ['hey, you have beautiful eyes, may I get you a drink']), then I don't.
Now the disclaimer: I'm using stereotypes here, so again, there is a whole bunch in between. For me, it also just depends where I am as -again generally speaking- men tend to differ depending on the society. Like in Italy I wasn't able to wait for a bus without someone hitting on me (and those Italian men in average look better than the Germans, so I felt REALLY good), here I usually am out with a group of mixed friends, and even if S isn't with us, they tend to take care that I don't flirt too much... And it actually takes longer for them to hit on women.

 

[leanoir]

My SO is definately of the old school - he opens doors, buys me dinner, movie tickets, etc. He gets really uncomfortable when I talk about paying for things. Sometimes I have to insist, and he usually lets me if I bitch enough.

For us, it's not a matter of control. Money is much too important an issue considering we're both students. If I'm flush, I'll insist on paying. If he's flush, I keep my mouth shut.

I really don't know what the point of sharing that was, considering you've already gotten some pretty good advice. I guess I'm just reinforcing that you guys should talk straight up about it. Make sure you each understand the other's point of view. Good luck!

 

[Marquis]

You know what cracks me up?

If a girl seems to be on the very feminine, coquette side, I will usually treat her like a lady to a reasonable point. You all know my feelings about paying for things, and there are certainly some girls that are TOO old school for me, but I'm talking about women in the general modern range here.

Anyway, then you have the girls who basically act like men, which honestly I'm fine with. Although I wouldn't date such a girl, there is no reason for gender to define our behavioral code. However, should such a female confront you rudely, she somehow still expects you to do the "gentlemanly" thing and back down. God forbid you should tell some loud bitch to shut the fuck up when she's saying something insulting to you.

I mean, I have a sense of humor, but if you say something that would get a male punched in the face, you're going to at least get cursed out.

Bitch.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Oy. Get off the computer and get to the fucking law library.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Perk of being a Top # 254

I feel not a whit of obligation and I only piss and moan when someone doesn't bend over backwards. So much clearer. Fuckin' feminists indeed.

Very interesting.

Male doms pay. Females doms don't.

Hm. *chin strokey smiley*

 

[Marquis]

I told you I was a Domme.

*off to read about the ten commandments that form the bill of tights*

 

[Etoile]

This attitude kills me. Fucking feminists. When men treat you like a lady it's nothing but pissing and moaning about how "women can pay their own way" and then when men STOP opening doors and paying for things, it's nothing but bitching and pissing and moaning about how men never treat women like ladies. Can't fucking have your cake and eat it too. Goddamn women. Enough to make a man go gay.

Jeez, overreaction much? Not the content of what you said, but the way in which you said it. Way to be just a teensy bit over the top.

Marquis, rock on.

 

[Netzach]

Very interesting.

Male doms pay. Females doms don't.

Hm. *chin strokey smiley*

Totally.

Sucks to be you guys.

Or you can just decide to make it happen for you. Stranger things have been built.

 

[catalina_francisco]

See, Chris, the problem is, with nice guys like me... who do stuff like that out of kindness... maybe trying to open a door for conversation -- but no indecent expectations... every woman who goes in expecting, assuming that I'm wanting sex, just for buying her a drink automatically assumes that I'm an asshole. That's not cool at all. Sometimes a drink is just a drink, yannow?

Very true...and my thought is if a guy does any of those things expecting sex in return, hey that is just fine, but it doesn't mean I have to give it to him. It goes both ways, you can expect to be taken advantage of if that is your thought process, but if you comply and cave in when it happens, it ain't necessarily the guy's fault a woman feels that it is her obligation to come through.

Catalina

 

[Rrrosyn]

Very interesting.

Male doms pay. Females doms don't.

Hm. *chin strokey smiley*

I'll jump in here. Female dominant and all. I paid the phone bills. I paid for his plane ticket here (CA) and our plane tickets back to NC. I paid for th U-Haul to drive back to CA again with his stuff. I paid for the hotel rooms across the country. I paid for all this on a disbility income. I saved for almost a year to be able to do this.

He is Southern. He pays for the dinner (I try to grab tip), he pays for the movie, he pays for gifts. He even pays my current credit card bills (which have a tiny bit of that U-Haul)... he has no rent. He lives with me. I pay living expenses from groceries to electric bills (again no rent, own the place). He uses my car most and so he pays for oil changes and most of the gas.

It went from me (the female) paying for everything to a very interesting juggling act. And the only problem we've ever had is that he didn't know how to balance a checkbook until I taught him and made it one of his "chores" to keep it balanced.

Now I have said elsewhere I am not a feminist. And I am not. I expect him to get doors for me if his hands are free. I expect him to do the lifting if he is fit. I do not expect every strange man out there to open doors, and I will hold a door if I get to it first. I feel there are certain things a gentleman just does for his lady and should do for any lady.

Money on the other hand is always a juggling act. If he has it, ok. If I have it ok. He has a work income that varies and is a student. I have a steady but much smaller income. We get by together and that is what matters.

 

[Etoile]

We get by together and that is what matters.

And that, folks, is the way it ought to be.

 

[Willow Rain]

Yes, I do want the door held.

Now I have said elsewhere I am not a feminist. And I am not. I expect him to get doors for me if his hands are free. I expect him to do the lifting if he is fit. I do not expect every strange man out there to open doors, and I will hold a door if I get to it first. I feel there are certain things a gentleman just does for his lady and should do for any lady.

Now I find that interesting. I'm a submissive and consider myself a Feminist. The whole point of Feminism to me is that women should have more options, lots of options, be able to choose anything from being on thier knees to standing on someones back, or hell having no other person in their lives at all.

Ahhh, but I am southern. I do expect men to hold the door if they are not very small children or men so aged that they have dificulty opening doors, I will politely stand to the side and let them do so. I hold doors following southern etiquitte as well. Anyone older than me I will move ahead to open the door for them *women*. Anyone pushing a stroller, carrying boxes, etc *any gender*. If I go through a door and see someone coming behind me, even four or five paces, I will wait holding the door until their hand touches it and has it. Recently my husband and I were helping his grandmother move. An older gentleman was helping, by older I mean well into his seventies. That is in the age range where it would be respectable and apropriate for me to hold the door for him. The first load we took down, he about broke his neck trying to insure he could get the door for me. Very gracious, old south, and some he was telling me that he was still a "man", thank you very much. Needless to say I adored him, and was totally all about supporting him in this. I was careful to insure that I was respectful to him and arranged how we went through the hall and how we were in the elevator so I could make room for him to open doors for me. It's a dance, it's not just about the man rushing ahead, it's about the lady being polite enough to give him room to be honerable toward her. It is a lovely dance. Young boys who are learning this dance get huge praise from me. It is pretty common in the south for a young kid to hold the door at his mother's/father's prompting. I always praise them and thank them and tell them how polite they are. I hope the tradition continues. So as far as I'm concerned, yes please open my door gentlemen. Oh and since you are a top female, if I was at a leather event with you and knew you as such, I would treat you as if you were older, regardless of your actual age to me and open your door as a gesture of same gender respect, or would make the attempt anyway.

 

[Rrrosyn]

Now I find that interesting. I'm a submissive and consider myself a Feminist. The whole point of Feminism to me is that women should have more options, lots of options, be able to choose anything from being on thier knees to standing on someones back, or hell having no other person in their lives at all.

I just feel because a woman can do everything a man can, she should have the option to... but she should never have to. Some women want to work, others don't. But in our society here, way too many families need 2 or even 3 incomes to make ends meet. And that is where women end up having to work instead of being home when they want to.

I wanted to pay the way. I had the availability to funds that he didn't. It was logical. Not an act of feminism.

I can open a door. I do hold them for others and try never to let a door just swing on anyone. How rude that would be. I just don't feel I should have to open the door when I am in the company of a man.

And you are right in your other comment. (I won't even try to double quote after the fiasco the other day.) It is a dance and if the man is the type to open doors, it's amazing how many side-steps, back-steps and practically fall-out-of-the-ways a woman has to go through to let him. Especially when you consider male subs often walk behind Dommes!!!

 

[catalina_francisco]

I just feel because a woman can do everything a man can, she should have the option to... but she should never have to. Some women want to work, others don't. But in our society here, way too many families need 2 or even 3 incomes to make ends meet. And that is where women end up having to work instead of being home when they want to.

I wanted to pay the way. I had the availability to funds that he didn't. It was logical. Not an act of feminism.

I can open a door. I do hold them for others and try never to let a door just swing on anyone. How rude that would be. I just don't feel I should have to open the door when I am in the company of a man.

And you are right in your other comment. (I won't even try to double quote after the fiasco the other day.) It is a dance and if the man is the type to open doors, it's amazing how many side-steps, back-steps and practically fall-out-of-the-ways a woman has to go through to let him. Especially when you consider male subs often walk behind Dommes!!!

Hmmm, as a feminist I tend to disagree a bit here. As Willow Rain said, feminism is about giving women a choice, not imposing one on them. It has been a long fight which still has a way to go before women do have the same choices and opportunities everywhere and in every career choice, but much of what has been achieved is taken for granted by many of the younger generation of women who have grown up in an environment where it has not been questioned in their lifetime that they are entitled to the freedoms they now have.

In times passed, and not that long ago, many women did not enjoy that freedom and your paying the way for a male partner would never have been accepted by him or anyone else, or seen as a sign you were not the sort of woman welcome in decent society and nor would he have been...feminism has helped you in giving you that choice and freedom to do such a thing without having to feel you have committed mortal sin. Not that long ago, you would not have dared admit you had any sexual desire, let alone talk about and exercise it publicly and outside marriage. Not that long ago, as a woman you would not have been allowed to vote.

Women have been imprisoned and put in mental institutions for wanting to even have their own money, or be able to work or vote. In my own country and lifetime, there was a time where a woman who married was legally unable to work in a government position because it was not seen as acceptable for a married woman to do so. In that same country today a woman working in the legal profession at the same level and doing as good a job if not better, will not get the same pay as her male counterpart simply based on her gender, not ability.....the same often goes for women doctors in hospital positions, and felmale lecturers in some universities. Things have changed a lot but not enough, and not without those brave women who put their necks on the line for the rest of us so we can enjoy the choices we now usually make without a second thought.

Catalina

 

[graceanne]

You know what cracks me up?

If a girl seems to be on the very feminine, coquette side, I will usually treat her like a lady to a reasonable point. You all know my feelings about paying for things, and there are certainly some girls that are TOO old school for me, but I'm talking about women in the general modern range here.

Anyway, then you have the girls who basically act like men, which honestly I'm fine with. Although I wouldn't date such a girl, there is no reason for gender to define our behavioral code. However, should such a female confront you rudely, she somehow still expects you to do the "gentlemanly" thing and back down. God forbid you should tell some loud bitch to shut the fuck up when she's saying something insulting to you.

I mean, I have a sense of humor, but if you say something that would get a male punched in the face, you're going to at least get cursed out.

Bitch.

Me and K have actually discussed this type of things. Like a chick is allowed to beat the shit out of a guy, and he's just supposed to take it? I've always known that if I hit K, that I should expect to be hit back. When K was in Texas he had a girlfriend who broke his nose, and he didn't hit her back cause she was a girl, but then he got to talking to a lady he worked with and realized how stupid that is. I mean, we don't think he should have beat the shit out of her, but what's the first thing you learn on the playground in kindergarten? Those who get hit back. And those who call names get called names back. I mean, duh.