Money Issues Between PYLs and pyls

[Willow Rain]

Me and K have actually discussed this type of things. Like a chick is allowed to beat the shit out of a guy, and he's just supposed to take it? I've always known that if I hit K, that I should expect to be hit back. When K was in Texas he had a girlfriend who broke his nose, and he didn't hit her back cause she was a girl, but then he got to talking to a lady he worked with and realized how stupid that is. I mean, we don't think he should have beat the shit out of her, but what's the first thing you learn on the playground in kindergarten? Those who get hit back. And those who call names get called names back. I mean, duh.

Actually what I am teaching my daughter... personally, is that it is important to learn how to express yourself and deal with emotional situtations without resorting to violence. I would teach the same thing to a son. She knows that if someone hit her and she hit them back she would not be in trouble with me, BUT I would prefer that she use her wit and common sense to resolve a situation over knocking the snot out of someone. If she hits someone first, she is in trouble.

As a healthy thirty six year old woman, if I wanted to sock someone in the nose, I could. But it's stupid. And if some person came up to me and lost their mind and hit me, I think it would only be reasonable for me to pause and think.... "this person has clearly lost it, do I want to escalate the situation by hitting them back and possibly doing real harm to them, or am I stable and mature enough to step back and get rid of their crazy acting ass?" I'd like to think I could control my temper enough not to sock them back in the head and head into a free for all. I think that good behavior should apply to all adults, not just a man that got smacked by a chick. Adults should be able to hold their tempers and not strike out physically in anger, if they can't they are probably not a safe option as a friend or a partner. Clearly they need help. A person who strikes you in anger should be detached from your life and sent on their way. Boy or girl.

Personally I would say that your K, in his choice not to hit the crazy girl back, showed restraint, maturity, and lovely masculine charm and internal strength... go K. I hope he continues in his path of not hitting back . It's more likely he won't end up on C.O.P.S. that way.

Willow

 

[Rrrosyn]

Hmmm, as a feminist I tend to disagree a bit here. As Willow Rain said, feminism is about giving women a choice, not imposing one on them. It has been a long fight which still has a way to go before women do have the same choices and opportunities everywhere and in every career choice, but much of what has been achieved is taken for granted by many of the younger generation of women who have grown up in an environment where it has not been questioned in their lifetime that they are entitled to the freedoms they now have.

In times passed, and not that long ago, many women did not enjoy that freedom and your paying the way for a male partner would never have been accepted by him or anyone else, or seen as a sign you were not the sort of woman welcome in decent society and nor would he have been...feminism has helped you in giving you that choice and freedom to do such a thing without having to feel you have committed mortal sin. Not that long ago, you would not have dared admit you had any sexual desire, let alone talk about and exercise it publicly and outside marriage. Not that long ago, as a woman you would not have been allowed to vote.

Women have been imprisoned and put in mental institutions for wanting to even have their own money, or be able to work or vote. In my own country and lifetime, there was a time where a woman who married was legally unable to work in a government position because it was not seen as acceptable for a married woman to do so. In that same country today a woman working in the legal profession at the same level and doing as good a job if not better, will not get the same pay as her male counterpart simply based on her gender, not ability.....the same often goes for women doctors in hospital positions, and felmale lecturers in some universities. Things have changed a lot but not enough, and not without those brave women who put their necks on the line for the rest of us so we can enjoy the choices we now usually make without a second thought.

Catalina

Obviously we just see the word "feminism" and view two different ... hmm, I'll go with "two different strengths to the meaning." I am sure someone would love to go find a dictionary and quote all the meanings. (No need.) No matter how we rehash the human language people will still view some words to different degrees or strengths. To me feminist brings to mind a cross between a bra burner, a woman dressed "manly" to hide her womanly side and someone ready to crush a man's testes - women who not only want equal rights but more. I can agree your view is more accurate since feminist stems from the word feminine. We can be feminine and feminists without being female supremists. I just cannot help that image when I hear the word.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Obviously we just see the word "feminism" and view two different ... hmm, I'll go with "two different strengths to the meaning." I am sure someone would love to go find a dictionary and quote all the meanings. (No need.) No matter how we rehash the human language people will still view some words to different degrees or strengths. To me feminist brings to mind a cross between a bra burner, a woman dressed "manly" to hide her womanly side and someone ready to crush a man's testes - women who not only want equal rights but more. I can agree your view is more accurate since feminist stems from the word feminine. We can be feminine and feminists without being female supremists. I just cannot help that image when I hear the word.

LOL, unfortunately you have a misinformed view many people have which usually comes from media and not reality and history. Believe me, feminism is not what you have envisioned, and that is not from the dictionary but hard study while getting my degree which was built almost exclusively on feminist studies with some very high profile feminisits in psychology, sociology, and social work. Interestingly, the one I admired the most and still do, gave most of her income to third world countries and their people as well as putting in months of hands on work with women and children in those nations each year. It has nothing to do with bra burning, nor man hating and crushing men's balls (though for a Domme I don't see a problem with that with a consenting male ), nor dressing like a man, just fighting for the rights of women such as yourself to have a vote, a voice, a choice, and the comfort of knowing you will not be living a life of oppression and silence like your ancestors were forced to....and so I can choose to be a slave and not feel guilty.

Catalina

 

[Private_Label]

To me feminist brings to mind a cross between a bra burner, a woman dressed "manly" to hide her womanly side and someone ready to crush a man's testes - women who not only want equal rights but more. I can agree your view is more accurate since feminist stems from the word feminine. We can be feminine and feminists without being female supremists. I just cannot help that image when I hear the word.

I consider myself a feminist, but I am not a bra burner (lord would my back complain if I did), I don't dress intentionally "manly" (I wear slacks, but my blouse is either non descript or feminine) nor do I desire to stomp on any man's pride and joy.

To me it means being able to work in any job I desire (college professor, Doctor, telephone Lineman and CEO of a corporation) and not just those traditionally thought of as "women's jobs" (i.e. secretary, teacher of a primary school, nurse). It also means that I should be able to expect to be paid an equal salary as a man in the same position with the same experience (we aren't there yet, but I have hopes that in 50 years it will be closer than it is now). Thankfully I have not run into many overt acts of sexual discrimination (in the bad sense of "you are a woman and therefore cannot do this job"), but I have run into it at least twice that I am certain of - once I applied as a kennel technician for a research lab and was asked if I could handle a 70 lbs. bag of dog food. I said yes (at that time I could lift about 120 lbs.) and that it would not be a problem. Then interviewer seemed to have a hangup about it, because he kept pressing on this issue. That was the worst I had run into and this was in the mid 1980's. The other time involved a position of research assistant, and the Professor was over 70, and all the other people involved in the interview process were men (6 or 7 people total), I got the impression that I was interviewed to complay with the EEO regulations. One of the men who interviewed me later told me that he had wanted to hire me as I was the best person for the job, but was not allowed to do so.

It makes me angry that the fact I have 2 x chromasomes automatically makes me inferior in some peoples eyes.


I do not reject chivalry/courtesy. In fact, I expect women to be more courteous now than before. I hold doors for men and women if I reach the door first. I open doors for those who are carrying packages, or have small children in tow. I hold it for those coming behind me, or those going in the opposite direction. There can never be too much courtesy in the world. I feel sorry for those who have rejected courtesy as a "put down" because it has added to the general nastiness in society (in my POV). If a man says that he would like to be able to always hold the door open for me, I do not take that as an afront to my dignity. I take it as a charming reminder and extention of his feelings for me. I do not think Chivalry is just for the men. It's a good idea for everyone.

I know not all feminists feel the same way I do about this subject. But it is a hot buttom one for me.

 

[graceanne]

Actually what I am teaching my daughter... personally, is that it is important to learn how to express yourself and deal with emotional situtations without resorting to violence. I would teach the same thing to a son. She knows that if someone hit her and she hit them back she would not be in trouble with me, BUT I would prefer that she use her wit and common sense to resolve a situation over knocking the snot out of someone. If she hits someone first, she is in trouble.

As a healthy thirty six year old woman, if I wanted to sock someone in the nose, I could. But it's stupid. And if some person came up to me and lost their mind and hit me, I think it would only be reasonable for me to pause and think.... "this person has clearly lost it, do I want to escalate the situation by hitting them back and possibly doing real harm to them, or am I stable and mature enough to step back and get rid of their crazy acting ass?" I'd like to think I could control my temper enough not to sock them back in the head and head into a free for all. I think that good behavior should apply to all adults, not just a man that got smacked by a chick. Adults should be able to hold their tempers and not strike out physically in anger, if they can't they are probably not a safe option as a friend or a partner. Clearly they need help. A person who strikes you in anger should be detached from your life and sent on their way. Boy or girl.

Personally I would say that your K, in his choice not to hit the crazy girl back, showed restraint, maturity, and lovely masculine charm and internal strength... go K. I hope he continues in his path of not hitting back . It's more likely he won't end up on C.O.P.S. that way.

Willow

I wish it we lived in a world where not hitting back always works, but we don't.

Example: Last summer my sister was living with us, and our neighbors had a little girl named Tiffany. My children were not allowed to hit, period. I told them if someone hit them, to tell me and I'd deal with it. The little girl across the street and A got along fine, most of the time. But everyone now and then Tiffany would just loose it, and start wailing on A. I would go to her parents who would 'send her to her room', but T would be outside playing within two minutes. I finally told A that next time Tiffany hit her to hit her back. Tiffany did not hit A again the whole year that they lived there.

Another example: My nephew (my sisters son) was reacting to his parents break up. My nephew is very big for his age, and he's also really strong for his age. He started hitting. And I don't mean slaps, I mean punches. Once he hit my baby, and A was gonna tell. I heard her screaming, and he had her pinned against the wall beating the crap out of her. My sister and I tried everything to stop his hitting. We tried incentives, we tried time outs, we tried taking things away, adding chores, spankings, EVERYTHING. Still whenever my nephew got angry he'd full out clock A in the face. When we finally gave A permission to hit back, she hit him back ONCE, and he never hit her again.

My children also are taught not to hit, and if they are hit to try and let the authorities deal with it. But if the authorities aren't taking care of it I told them to hit the kid back.

 

[Rrrosyn]

LOL, unfortunately you have a misinformed view many people have which usually comes from media and not reality and history. Believe me, feminism is not what you have envisioned, and that is not from the dictionary but hard study while getting my degree which was built almost exclusively on feminist studies with some very high profile feminisits in psychology, sociology, and social work. Interestingly, the one I admired the most and still do, gave most of her income to third world countries and their people as well as putting in months of hands on work with women and children in those nations each year. It has nothing to do with bra burning, nor man hating and crushing men's balls (though for a Domme I don't see a problem with that with a consenting male ), nor dressing like a man, just fighting for the rights of women such as yourself to have a vote, a voice, a choice, and the comfort of knowing you will not be living a life of oppression and silence like your ancestors were forced to....and so I can choose to be a slave and not feel guilty.

Catalina

Whether mis-informed (which I can agree with) or not, it is what I see when I close my eyes and try to envision the word come to life. Perhaps the real reason I don't consider myself a feminist is simply because I don't have a need for any other those choices or rights. I don't work. I can't have children. I am unable to maintain my home. I don't feel my voting helps, though I do it anyway. I rarely leave the house. I prefer long skirts. I wear my hair long. I have never felt I could be forced into the role of an oppressed female. Institutionalized in a group home, maybe, but not made into a 1940s version of a housewife.

Much of my "security" is in thanks to the women's movement. I am by no means saying what they did left no good behind, just that like every well-thought plan there were bad side-effects. It think sociologist... Merton... called it the Law of Unintended Consequences.

 

[Rrrosyn]

I consider myself a feminist, but I am not a bra burner (lord would my back complain if I did), I don't dress intentionally "manly" (I wear slacks, but my blouse is either non descript or feminine) nor do I desire to stomp on any man's pride and joy.

To me it means being able to work in any job I desire (college professor, Doctor, telephone Lineman and CEO of a corporation) and not just those traditionally thought of as "women's jobs" (i.e. secretary, teacher of a primary school, nurse). It also means that I should be able to expect to be paid an equal salary as a man in the same position with the same experience (we aren't there yet, but I have hopes that in 50 years it will be closer than it is now). Thankfully I have not run into many overt acts of sexual discrimination (in the bad sense of "you are a woman and therefore cannot do this job"), but I have run into it at least twice that I am certain of - once I applied as a kennel technician for a research lab and was asked if I could handle a 70 lbs. bag of dog food. I said yes (at that time I could lift about 120 lbs.) and that it would not be a problem. Then interviewer seemed to have a hangup about it, because he kept pressing on this issue. That was the worst I had run into and this was in the mid 1980's. The other time involved a position of research assistant, and the Professor was over 70, and all the other people involved in the interview process were men (6 or 7 people total), I got the impression that I was interviewed to complay with the EEO regulations. One of the men who interviewed me later told me that he had wanted to hire me as I was the best person for the job, but was not allowed to do so.

It makes me angry that the fact I have 2 x chromasomes automatically makes me inferior in some peoples eyes.


I do not reject chivalry/courtesy. In fact, I expect women to be more courteous now than before. I hold doors for men and women if I reach the door first. I open doors for those who are carrying packages, or have small children in tow. I hold it for those coming behind me, or those going in the opposite direction. There can never be too much courtesy in the world. I feel sorry for those who have rejected courtesy as a "put down" because it has added to the general nastiness in society (in my POV). If a man says that he would like to be able to always hold the door open for me, I do not take that as an afront to my dignity. I take it as a charming reminder and extention of his feelings for me. I do not think Chivalry is just for the men. It's a good idea for everyone.

I know not all feminists feel the same way I do about this subject. But it is a hot buttom one for me.

I never disagreed with feminism. I just never labeled myself with the title. I don't have to deal with the issues of equal pay and so on. (See my above post.)

I do agree that we need to be courteous as a people, not a gender. That would be a nice world to live in.

And as for you chromosones... I thought the y was the broken one that didn't fully develope? (Biology not my subject though, so not gonna be held to that comment.)

 

[Willow Rain]

I agree with you that it doesn't always work. That is why my daughter won't get in trouble if someone hits her and she hits them back. However, I do think that you did the right thing in trying other avenues for resolution first. I hope your daughter standing up for herself gave her a sense of confidence.


Willow
Who doesn't have a no hitting rule, just a no hitting first rule.

 

[La Kajira]

Honestly, I'm neither feminist nor totally old fashioned. I like to have my door opened for me but I don't expect it, I like to have the guy pay my way but again, I don't expect it.

And sometimes I do like to treat. It gives me a kick to take my husband out for breakfast or something on my own dime.

Really, though, finding a man that will open doors, etc. is so rare.

 

[mdiaz451]

box his ears

So due to an awful mom, you want to pay your fair share. Seems pertty damn reasonable to me. Want to come to Boston? I love a sub that picks up the tab once in a while.

I'm old school enough to want to pay the check, even if my date is making twice what I do. I'm also liberated enough to be glad if she wants to play the check, especially if she makes twice what I do. The economic imperative is what makes sense to me.

I think you should tell him to stop being such a pain in the ass. I assume you've already explained your pshcological need/desire to pay the frieght once in a while.

Tell him he's being an unreasonable prick if he keeps it up. The fact that he's sneaky about pre-paying for stuff, etc, sheds a different light on the whole money/power/sex dynamic. Seems more than a little annoying to me. Tell him to knock it off... and respect your wishes to treat, AT LEAST on occasion.

MD
Boston
Callmefishmail@yahoo.com

 

[timberwolf05]

Me and K have actually discussed this type of things. Like a chick is allowed to beat the shit out of a guy, and he's just supposed to take it? I've always known that if I hit K, that I should expect to be hit back. When K was in Texas he had a girlfriend who broke his nose, and he didn't hit her back cause she was a girl, but then he got to talking to a lady he worked with and realized how stupid that is. I mean, we don't think he should have beat the shit out of her, but what's the first thing you learn on the playground in kindergarten? Those who get hit back. And those who call names get called names back. I mean, duh.

=================================
but what's the first thing you learn on the playground in kindergarten? Those who get hit back. And those who call names get called names back. I mean, duh.

ohhhhhkaaaayyyyyy.
ms graceanne....as much as i respect you...i must however...interject in here...
i understand what you just said here..
and i have always felt that way.
but!
by the teachings of the battered women's classes...no one...is supposed-to hit anyone. it is simply NOT allowed in our civilized world anymore. just because someone hits you does not any longer allow you to do so in return.
i will not become involved in someone's tirade here if they start to blast-me here...so just understand anyone reading here.......
i am merely stating what "I" have been told by ; THE LAW.

thank you.

wolfie

 

[chris9]

=================================
but what's the first thing you learn on the playground in kindergarten? Those who get hit back. And those who call names get called names back. I mean, duh.

ohhhhhkaaaayyyyyy.
ms graceanne....as much as i respect you...i must however...interject in here...
i understand what you just said here..
and i have always felt that way.
but!
by the teachings of the battered women's classes...no one...is supposed-to hit anyone. it is simply NOT allowed in our civilized world anymore. just because someone hits you does not any longer allow you to do so in return.
i will not become involved in someone's tirade here if they start to blast-me here...so just understand anyone reading here.......
i am merely stating what "I" have been told by ; THE LAW.

thank you.

wolfie

So we returned to the law and I can continue my personal comparison of laws in other countries that make no sense
If someone hits you, you may hit them back. It's called self-defence. You don't need to let someone beat you up. And you can even hit someone BEFORE they hit you, if they are going to really soon, so you can protect yourself. The other one gets judged for tried beating, you won't. Makes perfect sense to me, since he started it, thus he is the bad one.

 

[timberwolf05]

So we returned to the law and I can continue my personal comparison of laws in other countries that make no sense
If someone hits you, you may hit them back. It's called self-defence. You don't need to let someone beat you up. And you can even hit someone BEFORE they hit you, if they are going to really soon, so you can protect yourself. The other one gets judged for tried beating, you won't. Makes perfect sense to me, since he started it, thus he is the bad one.

=================

assume you are semi civil about this? i merely state, even though, someone does, strike, you, it is not, justice, to strike back, in a civilized environment. you are just lowering yourself to their level. this is why we as a civilization banned carrying guns and duels on mainstreet.
i know the feelings of self defense and i too used that sentiment for 50 years. but it is NOT right to do it. you may feel it is. but it is why we have a judicial sytem and police.
i used-to seek out revenge also. decades after the fact.
but it is not civilized.
no one has the-right, male/female..to strike, anyone..for ANY reason.

take care, best wishes.

wolfie

 

[FurryFury]

Interesting, I thought this was about money issues.

Now it's about hitting and laws. Hmm.

Well, I don't think hitting is wrong under all circumstances, particularly if someone else has taken a first strike. I just think they shouldn't be able to get back up for a while.

I've always heard there is a law which says that you can defend yourself with equal force. Meaning if someone hits you, you can hit back provided you are not a black belt or something they can hang on you to say your hands are a deadly weapon. However is someone were using words, using your hands is not okay. If someone used their hands, using a knife or gun is not okay. I would need to look it up to verify it and I haven't.

Contrary to what many people who live around me seem to think, you may not just shoot someone who has broken into your house or business. Perhaps that used to be the case. These days you will often be prosecuted for that, I've seen it in the local news.

I've already stated my views on money.

Fury

 

[chris9]

Interesting, I thought this was about money issues.

Now it's about hitting and laws. Hmm.

Well, I don't think hitting is wrong under all circumstances, particularly if someone else has taken a first strike. I just think they shouldn't be able to get back up for a while.

I've always heard there is a law which says that you can defend yourself with equal force. Meaning if someone hits you, you can hit back provided you are not a black belt or something they can hang on you to say your hands are a deadly weapon. However is someone were using words, using your hands is not okay. If someone used their hands, using a knife or gun is not okay. I would need to look it up to verify it and I haven't.

Contrary to what many people who live around me seem to think, you may not just shoot someone who has broken into your house or business. Perhaps that used to be the case. These days you will often be prosecuted for that, I've seen it in the local news.

I've already stated my views on money.

Fury

Classical highjack...
I can, of course, only speak for German law, and am now speaking about penalty law. In Germany, if someone does you wrong, you may use violence to defend yourself in this situation. Of course it's better to call the police, but often that's not fast enough. Here, the law says that if you defend your rights or someone else's rights (and this includes honor, so being seriously insulted would count) from an attack, you may use whatever means available against the attacker. This includes purposely killing them, as they are the ones who violated the law and if it's the only way to stop any harm for your rights, you are allowed to.
Your theory on using the same method to defend yourself sounds nice. It really is to the disadvantage of the weak people, though. If some big guy came up to me and started beating me with his hands, maybe also kicking me, and I would be limited to the same means in my defense, I would very fast be seriously harmed or killed if that's his goal.
Guns aren't such a big deal, though, because there aren't as many around, and getting one is quite difficult.

assume you are semi civil about this? i merely state, even though, someone does, strike, you, it is not, justice, to strike back, in a civilized environment. you are just lowering yourself to their level. this is why we as a civilization banned carrying guns and duels on mainstreet.
i know the feelings of self defense and i too used that sentiment for 50 years. but it is NOT right to do it. you may feel it is. but it is why we have a judicial sytem and police.
i used-to seek out revenge also. decades after the fact.
but it is not civilized.
no one has the-right, male/female..to strike, anyone..for ANY reason.

I tried to say that, yes, it is our system of justice to strike back if there is no other way to get help. I am however not talking about revenge. I'm just saying that you don't have to let anyone rob you, rape you, murder you, if there is no police to help you out. That's all about self-defence, not about taking justice into your own hands.
I agree that it is way better to not use any violence. But if it's injuring someone else or being injured by that person, I would pick the first choice without thinking. Afterwards, once I'm safe, we will both be judged.
Now, about your comment that no one has the right to strike anyone... How about if I really want to be stricken?

 

[shy slave]

Back to money...

I understand a little of how Killi feels.

When I was a single parent and went out on vanilla dates I always paid 50:50. That way I owed him nothing when the night ended. If I wanted to kiss him goodnight, invite him in etc it was because I wanted to not because i owed him.

My ex always paid for everything, he also bought me expensive (and unwanted) things on a regular basis.

My sons said he was trying to buy me, and they may have point.

Now I wonder if he bought me things as a way of justifying some of the things he did.

Pysch 101 lol

I like to be equal but its not always possible depending on the time of the month in relation to my pay cheque.

It does make me uncomfortable that he pays for most of the costs when we are together ~ meals etc.
However now i have sold my house it can be more equal.

I love and adore being his slave but it doesn't mean I want him to pay for it.

I have always disliked recieving things for example birthdays & Christmas just make me feel awkward. I would prefer the opportunity to have great sex rather than be given anything or have him pay for something when we are together.

 

[FurryFury]

Classical highjack...
I can, of course, only speak for German law, and am now speaking about penalty law. In Germany, if someone does you wrong, you may use violence to defend yourself in this situation. Of course it's better to call the police, but often that's not fast enough. Here, the law says that if you defend your rights or someone else's rights (and this includes honor, so being seriously insulted would count) from an attack, you may use whatever means available against the attacker. This includes purposely killing them, as they are the ones who violated the law and if it's the only way to stop any harm for your rights, you are allowed to.
Your theory on using the same method to defend yourself sounds nice. It really is to the disadvantage of the weak people, though. If some big guy came up to me and started beating me with his hands, maybe also kicking me, and I would be limited to the same means in my defense, I would very fast be seriously harmed or killed if that's his goal.
Guns aren't such a big deal, though, because there aren't as many around, and getting one is quite difficult.

I tried to say that, yes, it is our system of justice to strike back if there is no other way to get help. I am however not talking about revenge. I'm just saying that you don't have to let anyone rob you, rape you, murder you, if there is no police to help you out. That's all about self-defence, not about taking justice into your own hands.
I agree that it is way better to not use any violence. But if it's injuring someone else or being injured by that person, I would pick the first choice without thinking. Afterwards, once I'm safe, we will both be judged.
Now, about your comment that no one has the right to strike anyone... How about if I really want to be stricken?

Interesting Chris!

Actually I think there are even more subtle allowances made depending on size and ability. For instance if your life were in danger and he was more profient with his hands then yes, you could defend yourself with what you needed to in order to prevail. However with our country being so sue happy these days, who knows if the potential rapist or murderer's relatives wouldn't try to take you to court and some lawyer talk a jury into slapping you with damages in civil if not criminal court?

Back to money...

I understand a little of how Killi feels.

When I was a single parent and went out on vanilla dates I always paid 50:50. That way I owed him nothing when the night ended. If I wanted to kiss him goodnight, invite him in etc it was because I wanted to not because i owed him.

My ex always paid for everything, he also bought me expensive (and unwanted) things on a regular basis.

My sons said he was trying to buy me, and they may have point.

Now I wonder if he bought me things as a way of justifying some of the things he did.

Pysch 101 lol

I like to be equal but its not always possible depending on the time of the month in relation to my pay cheque.

It does make me uncomfortable that he pays for most of the costs when we are together ~ meals etc.
However now i have sold my house it can be more equal.

I love and adore being his slave but it doesn't mean I want him to pay for it.

I have always disliked recieving things for example birthdays & Christmas just make me feel awkward. I would prefer the opportunity to have great sex rather than be given anything or have him pay for something when we are together.

In my experience, so far, most people, male or female giving you things, want something back. Your thanks, your time, your love, you to be beholden to them, sex, whatever or they are giving out of guilt.

I want them to love me. If they must give me something, I want them to do it only because they want to and have thought of that gift for some reason. I don't want stuff because it's that time of year and they feel like they have to. When my ex left, I got rid of most of his gifts. They didn't mean what I had hoped they had.

I happen to be with a man who gives me expensive gifts now. He doesn't seem to want anything back but the joy of giving.

I am thinking of arranging my own presents for my birthday and Christmas this year. What I really want is a bit more complicated than picking out shiny baubles. Baubles are lovely things that I don't need or want. I'd rather something that comes from his heart and hands. It's only because I believe these gifts do come from his heart that I accept them graciously as one should do with heartfelt gifts.

What I really want though is too much trouble for him to arrange. So I'd like to. I don't want to buy it myself but if he is going to spent that sort of money on me already. Hell I don't know!

Fury

 

[chris9]

Interesting Chris!

Actually I think there are even more subtle allowances made depending on size and ability. For instance if your life were in danger and he was more profient with his hands then yes, you could defend yourself with what you needed to in order to prevail. However with our country being so sue happy these days, who knows if the potential rapist or murderer's relatives wouldn't try to take you to court and some lawyer talk a jury into slapping you with damages in civil if not criminal court?
Fury

Thank god we don't work with juries! Thank god we don't have case law! Makes the whole thing more predictable. When the criminal law says that it's ok to do something (like killing or injuring in self-defence) the civil law takes over that decision, so you won't have to pay for anything.
In Germany, in higher instances at court, there are 2 'normal' people and 3 judges. That way the folks who don't know much about law but have to live with what we do get their saying in deciding, but the majority is still with judges who studied law, did very well in their exams and should know what to do with the laws.

 

[timberwolf05]

ok. going back to $$$$$$$.

i feel as a male, i am supposed to pay for everything anyway.
vanilla or otherwise. but then, MY 3 wives wouldn't work either......and i never had a girlfriend ever bought ME anything. OR my wives. i have always had-to, foot the bills.
and i pay for whatever expenses are incurred by me too with my Mistress.
wolfie

 

[landcruisergal]

ok. going back to $$$$$$$.

i feel as a male, i am supposed to pay for everything anyway.
vanilla or otherwise. but then, MY 3 wives wouldn't work either......and i never had a girlfriend ever bought ME anything. OR my wives. i have always had-to, foot the bills.
and i pay for whatever expenses are incurred by me too with my Mistress.
wolfie

And my sub does also, but occassionally compromises and gives me the cash out of his wallet so I can pay the bill. But allow me to actually pay for anything when we are out in public, never.
Its an issue we discussed at our first meeting, and decided on the compromise.( he didnt let me buy him a drink even then.)
I have feminist, left wing ideals and find it a little uncomfortable as I am used to going "dutch", or alternating who pays, but it was obvious it was an intergral part of his sense of self worth.So what the heck...He earns more than me anyway.
I have paid for my toys so far and his collars. The toys I will keep, the collars are my gift to him and will remain his of course, whatever the future may hold.
(I wish I could get him to pay my mobile phone bill )

 

[Leolover711]

Have you tried thinking of it from his POV? If he was raised to feel that he should pay the way this early in the relationship, I'm gonna guarantee that he'd be VERY uncomfortable with you paying the way. My husband is like that, he's southern and he was raised to believe that a gentleman paid for the dates, especially early in the relationship. If I'd insisted on paying it would have made him feel very uncomfortable.

Beyond that - why are you worried about what's PC? Not to point out the obvious, but your whole relationship is sooooooo NOT PC. I mean, you're in a M/f D/s relationship - that's about as un-pc as it gets. The same feminists that say you should pay your half would string you up if they ever found out that your relationship is D/s.

What she said!

 

[shy slave]

In my experience, so far, most people, male or female giving you things, want something back. Your thanks, your time, your love, you to be beholden to them, sex, whatever or they are giving out of guilt.

I want them to love me. If they must give me something, I want them to do it only because they want to and have thought of that gift for some reason. I don't want stuff because it's that time of year and they feel like they have to. When my ex left, I got rid of most of his gifts. They didn't mean what I had hoped they had.

Fury

Same in my experience, sad but true.

Whne I moved house i got rid of most of the things he bought, I would have got rid of more but he kept saying 'No, keep that, its new' so I still have crap i don't want or need

 

[chris9]

In my experience, so far, most people, male or female giving you things, want something back. Your thanks, your time, your love, you to be beholden to them, sex, whatever or they are giving out of guilt.

I want them to love me. If they must give me something, I want them to do it only because they want to and have thought of that gift for some reason. I don't want stuff because it's that time of year and they feel like they have to. When my ex left, I got rid of most of his gifts. They didn't mean what I had hoped they had.

I happen to be with a man who gives me expensive gifts now. He doesn't seem to want anything back but the joy of giving.

I am thinking of arranging my own presents for my birthday and Christmas this year. What I really want is a bit more complicated than picking out shiny baubles. Baubles are lovely things that I don't need or want. I'd rather something that comes from his heart and hands. It's only because I believe these gifts do come from his heart that I accept them graciously as one should do with heartfelt gifts.

What I really want though is too much trouble for him to arrange. So I'd like to. I don't want to buy it myself but if he is going to spent that sort of money on me already. Hell I don't know!

Fury

I really like getting gifts I usually wish for certain things, but those are things that I wouldn't buy myself, because either they are too expensive or the side of me that wants to save as much money as possible is stronger. So I wish for sweaters or kitchen stuff from my parents/my god-mother. I'm happy, they are happy, so it's all good. Last christmas S and I decided on a money limit of 5 € for gifts for each other, because we were going to move in together, thus wanting to save money to buy furniture. It was very nice, because we had to really think about what the other would like and doing things ourselves.

 

[timberwolf05]

The same feminists that say you should pay your half would string you up if they ever found out that your relationship is D/s.
===================
yeah i know that's right.
my 3rd wife was an avid N.O.W. member and she got herself in a tizzy one day when "I" was buying things one day so i handed her the cash and told her to go-enjoy. wow. she liked to have had a major attack that day. i swear she was gonna throw something right there in the mall......

wolfie

 

[FurryFury]

NOW is a little over the top for me.

However since I can whip ass or take a licking. They shouldn't have a problem with it.

Frankly it's none of their bees wax any way!

If I want someone telling me what I do is wrong, I'd live a while 'nother way. Right now I avoid the ass holes out there that don't get "it."

*grins*

That was kinda funny to me.

Fury