Money Issues Between PYLs and pyls

[Quint]

feeds them steak and pie to end the hijack.

Aww, c'mon! It was classic unadulterated male banter in its natural environment.

To answer the question, Killi, we've always been pretty 50/50, but that's a practicality thing more than anything else; our finances have been stable but not excessive and both have been approximately equal, so it only made sense to split the cost of long-distance travel, meals, and phone card bills until we wised up and moved in together. Now it's about the same...we generally know how the other's bank account is and who can treat the other to this meal or shopping trip. Not nearly as sexy as our two fine gentlemen's scheming ways, but hey, we never went broke and no one felt left out.

 

[Etoile]

For the first several years of our relationship, Daddy was the provider. E paid for my train tickets, all meals and drinks while I was there, bought me gifts (extravagant ones), all of that kind of thing. I'm not sure if it was because e made 3x-4x what I did, or because e felt it was the appropriate thing to do. A little over a year ago, though, the company e worked for closed and e lost eir job. Since then, I've paid for my own bus tickets (costs about 1/4 of what the train cost), paid for about half the meals, and we don't go out for drinks anymore. It does feel a little odd for me to pay for meals...I guess some might see it as service (remember that "looking for a money slave" post?!) but it wasn't the way we used to operate, so every time I take out my wallet I just get a weird little twinge.

 

[tealsphynx]

With Draggie and I, he works and brings home the bacon, I keep the house clean (ish) and raise the baby (weekends are a free for all game, he cleans too) (yeah yea, I'm a domestic domme) it's not always a perfect 50/50 but it works for now, though when I have days that nothing gets done I feel bad. If I were working it would be more spread out, like his money would go for savings and bills and mine for fun or something like that, since right now I can only work at jobs that dont make nearly as much as he does so we would work that out when we got there. If I worked we'd definitely have more savings and I would be able to save faster for this really nice prezzy I want to get him (can't post what here, if he reads it it will ruin the suprise, it will be a loong time till I have enough). I've always insisted on splitting dates, though I've dated a moocher and went out a couple times with someone who refused to let me pay for even my own gumball (hello, 25 cent item, I've got it covered, trust me). Moochers are no fun, especially when they have no desire to move along and becoem a contributing member of the financial relationship. Seeing that you're considering a serious relationship with this individual and viceversa I would stand up and lay donw the law now (even if you are sub) because it won't get any easier once you are an "official" couple, trust me.

 

[Private_Label]

Killi, if he is doing as an "old fashioned male" sort of thing, then you could respond with the "old fashioned female" response which is cooking dinner for him at his place or your place - you buy the food you will cook, maybe rent a movie at Blockbuster or Netflicks or something - that way, you didn't go "out" on a date, but you have contributed in food preparation and thoughtfulness of what to cook for him -

if he takes you out one night, then you can cook dinner for him another night - It may not be "financially" even, but it will let you take the responsibility for one evening's worth of food and entertainment to his evenings worth of same.

 

[jasonlf]

But to answer the original question; which was a good one: I don't expect anything in return for paying for shit, on dates and such. I just like the feeling of sugar daddiness that it gives me to pay. The man pays, the head of household pays. That's how I feel in my soul.

I agree. Are you from the south? I get the impression it's a southern thing.

 

[Killishandra]

Thank you so much for contributing! (That goes out to everyone on this thread.)

There is a TON of stuff I want to reply to. When I get home from work tonight (about 4 AM my time) I will start making replies. I have to get up fairly early tomorrow to bring him lunch, so I may not get around to everyone's posts, but I'll start on them and get to everyone eventually. Because I have more questions for people, based on their replies.

But before I have to go to work, I'll make this quick post.

I did talk to him about this matter this afternoon on YIM and I told him that I had mixed feelings on him paying for things. I told him that I love that he is a gentleman, but a part of me feels very mooch-ish, and this was his response:

"let me say this..."
" It's not that i want to be a gentleman... i can be - it's not that I think paying for you will get you to like me more... it's i want to take care of you and the best way i can do that - at the moment - is to at least pay for you"

We talked on it a little more on it and eventually he said something like "bla bla bla it's what I want. End of discussion." (Yeah, he actually typed "bla bla bla", lol)

Anyway, I still feel really weird about it. As Marquis pointed out, it is not how he deals with his subs, and it's also not how most of my ex vanilla partners have acted, so it makes me feel a tinge of anxiety just because it is not what I am used to. But, I guess, I will just have to get used to it... *shrug* For now, at least. I wouldn't say that either attitude is better or worse, btw, just that they are different. (Oh, and despite Marquis' posts in this thread, when we went out things were pretty much equal. We took turns., but I remember him paying for dinner and groceries and telling me to put my wallet away on several occasions when I tried to over-pay, lol.) (Sorry to rat you out, hun, but you know I'm speaking the truth! )

There's still alot that I want to reply to, but it'll have to wait until after work. Thanks, everyone, for your responses. Getting many different viewpoints is extremely helpful.

 

[jasonlf]

(Oh, and despite Marquis' posts in this thread, when we went out things were pretty much equal. We took turns., but I remember him paying for dinner and groceries and telling me to put my wallet away on several occasions when I tried to over-pay, lol.)

M, you goin' soft on me?

 

[Alt]

In the vanilla world, this is how I handle it. If you invite him to the movie, you pay. If he invites you, you pay.

So lets say that ya'll are sitting on the couch and you see a trailer for a movie you want to see. You turn to him and say "Hey, let's go see that on Friday." You have invited him. You pay. If he says "Lets go out to lunch." He invited you. He pays.


If its truly that big of a deal to him...then I dont know, lol.

D

Are you sure D doesn't stand for dutch?

 

[Killishandra]

My slave, on the other hand, has always paid for things, sent gifts, cash, and footed the bills and is perfectly thrilled to feel like he is "working for" me. Which is fine, he makes a heap more cash than either M or I.

Personally, I feel like whoever is most able to part with it, should. I believe in being independent, but I don't believe in breaking my balls while hanging out with someone for whom the same amount of money is an afterthought.

I understand your point of view, and here's a concern of mine: Although I'm not sure how much money he makes, I *am* pretty sure I make alot more than him. He teaches digital media and film making at a high school... and I work in adult entertainment and real estate. Soooo... yeah. I have tons of bills (mostly credit cards from the last 3 years of college) and my rent is ridiculously high (I pay $1200 a month just for my room in downtown Honolulu) and whatnot... BUT, money that for him might be budgeted might be more of an "afterthought" to me, as you said. So that does concern me. However, he knows I make alot of money, and still insists on paying.

Another thing: I can emphasize with the way your slave feels. I am very service-oriented as a submissive, and I like the idea of working for my Dominant. I also like the idea of handing over my paycheck to my Dominant (when in a serious relationship) and having Him manage my money for me/us (I'll get into that more when I reply to Jay Davis' post.) It's not that I don't enjoy being taken care of by my Dom... it's just that I also enjoy the feeling of serving His needs, and that includes every aspect of serving. Emotional, physical, sexual, and yes even financial if I am in a position to do so.

In the vanilla world, this is how I handle it. If you invite him to the movie, you pay. If he invites you, you pay.

So lets say that ya'll are sitting on the couch and you see a trailer for a movie you want to see. You turn to him and say "Hey, let's go see that on Friday." You have invited him. You pay. If he says "Lets go out to lunch." He invited you. He pays.


If its truly that big of a deal to him...then I dont know, lol.

D

Hmm, I can see the logic in that. Especially in a vanilla relationship. However, in this circumstance He isn't willing to compromise like that. In fact, He'll often make me decide what we're going to do (get food, go to the arcade, play pool, whatever) and still insists on providing the funds for it.

OK as a throw back to the old chivalry days, I do like paying for dates, as well as holding open doors, rising when a lady leaves the table and offering my seat when appropriate. An old girlfriend was very similar in wanting to pay or felt like she was indebted to me now and then. My response that ended her feelings of mooching was "You do me teh honor of gracing me with your presence. I intend to honor you by showing you what you mean to to me in no uncertain terms".

And while she never offered to pay for a date after that she did buy me the best of presents for birthday's christmas etc.

I've had the "you do me the honor..." line (in various wordings) said to me in the past, by many guys when I insist on paying my own way or for both of us. I never go out on a date with someone unless I really like them, so my answer is usually the same: "Well, I'm enjoying your company as well, so that leaves us in the same boat. Now, where was I... oh yes...*takes out wallet*" LOL. Sorry, but that line just never works on me. I don't see the logic in it, although I appreciate the sentiment behind it, I really do. However, I see it as a two-way street.

Consider Salvor-Hardin's response, Killi.

Since he has told you that this "will probably change in the future and I will be allowed to pay for things as well," accept it - with good grace! - with a mental note that financial aspects of your relationship should be one of the issues in negotiations for that relationship, if it goes beyond a trial period.

Since this has emotional connotations for you, it could well be a deal-breaker, so consider carefully both your feelings on it and his.

That's my $0.02 worth - YMMV.

Well, you can see my response to SH's post above... As for negotiating money matters as part of the relationship, that's good advice. Although honestly, I will probably just trust in Him to determine when I pay, for what, and how much. I know this might tempt people to call me foolish, but... Well, it's hard to explain. Different submissives have different control needs, I think everyone will agree to that, right? I do make good money, and I do have a tendency to waste it, so being able to give up control of that aspect of my life to a competent Dom will be both one of the scariest areas in my life to give up control and also one of the biggest joys and reliefs.

Money matters should definitely be something him and I discuss if things get to the point where we're reasonably sure we'll be a long-term couple. I would want to know that He is comfortable taking control of that aspect of my life (eventually, of course, not right off the bat.) If he didn't... well, I don't know what I'd do then. I've always assumed that my Dom will eventually handle such things.

I'm with nightdancer on this. At least until you are at the cohabitation stage in the relationship, I prefer to determine who pays for what on a host/guest basis, rather than a male/female or top/bottom basis. If I ask you to go somewhere or do something, I'm inviting you and expect to play the role of host to you, as guest. If you ask me, the reverse applies. That way, everyone has control over the drain on their own pocketbook, and no one to blame but themselves if they go broke spending money on their new love.

As for handing over a paycheck--in the world we live in, it's extremely foolish to hand over your financial well-being to anyone other than your lawfully-wedded spouse. Now, I'm an aggressive proponent of extending the rights and responsibilities of marriage beyond the traditional male/female model, but regardless of that, no one should entrust their finances to anyone else unless they have the legal rights of marriage protecting them. If you are handing over all your money to a Dominant to whom you are not married, you could easily find yourself broke and homeless the day that Dominant gets tired of you. You MUST take care of yourself first, no matter how much of a sub you are by nature.

Believe me, I fully understand and appreciate the appeal of putting yourself entirely in someone else's care. It's a tremendously seductive fantasy to me as well. But in real-world, legal terms, it's financial suicide to trust someone to that degree if they have no legal obligation to be responsible in their handling of your financial affairs.

I know I didn't really address your current question--what to do in a D/s relationship in its early stages--but I am not sure there's a simple answer to that. But if you have a sense that this Dom is using money to gain a hold over you that interferes with your sense of freedom to give or deny consent, then something needs to change. Anytime you're letting him do something to you, or doing something for him, that wouldn't have happened if he hadn't paid for that fancy dinner and the show, he's not topping you, he's blackmailing you. And that's not S, S, or C.

Talk to him about it from that point of view, and see how he responds.

Again, good advice that I probably won't follow. It's certainly something that I shouldn't take lightly. But even knowing the risk, I am willing to let a Dom, if we have been in a relationship long enough for me to trust Him, take over my financial planning. I would certainly become suspicious if He wanted to do so right off the bat. I would also become suspicious if He started putting investments and such into His name (only) with my money. THAT is something I would only not object to if we were married. However, to have Him manage my finances and use my income to pay for my expense and part of His doesn't bother me at all. As I said to Netzach, I enjoy working for my Dom. I enjoy my martial arts classes in part because I feel it makes me more useful to a Dom or sibling-submissive.

It's not that I don't enjoy being cuddled and occasionally pampered. Or feeling as if my Dom is powerful and protecting me. But those things are not enough to make me feel fulfilled as a submissive. I want to be useful. I want to learn better to serve my Dominant in all ways, shapes, and forms. I don't want to have to worry about my own financial matters, because I don't want to have to worry about myself much. Anytime I am taking care of my own needs is less time I can spend attending to my Dom. And serving Him is what makes me feel at peace on the inside, and fulfilled in my role as a submissive.

As for blackmailing... no, I don't think that's the intention behind paying for things. If so, He would have tried to pressure me into things after the first couple of times we went out, and that hasn't happened.

let the part of you that is secretly delighted be in control for now. it may help to just allow it to be, because it makes him happy. *shrug*

Some good advice that I will try to follow. Thanks KC.

This post is getting long, so I'm going to post it and start another one to continue my replies.

 

[Killishandra]

Dude is it Mr. Hottiepants? If he wants to pay, let him!! If he wants to wear a paper hat, let him! Frick that guy is doable.

hehe. It is indeed. And the pic I showed you doesn't do him justice IRL, either!

Everyone so far has given you great advice to ponder, so instead of repeating it I will try and present another way of approaching the issue. You say this is not the way it has been in any of your previous relationships.....but those relationships are no longer, most were not D/s, so perhaps it is valid to consider a change if only for change sake...you know, stepping outside the comfort zone and challenging that which you are used to and fits like a comfy old slipper.

Also, in saying you usually pay at least half, sometimes more, I take it you do not do that in order to make the other person feel obligated to you, or use it to control them...so turn it around and look at why you feel for them to want to pay means they may be using it to gain power over you in a deceitful way. Obviously it does happen, and believe me I have fought my own battles with this risk, but I also came to realise in part it can be unfair to assume while you would be doing the honourable or fair thing, another would not, unless you have something definite to go on. I can also relate to how it can seem it is an issue of giving up control, especially when you are independent and not used to relying on anyone to support you....LOL, after many, many years as a single mother, it has been one of the greatest hurdles I have had to overcome and make peace with...I'm still working on it.

I also can relate to what you say about your mother and the possible influence that has over your need to pay. I have come from a similar situation, and still hear the speech from my mother regularly, 'I don't ever regret having you, but it has affected so many people's lives I often think it would have been better if you hadn't been born'....so yeah, there is always that urge to not be a burden emotionally or financially on anyone by going overboard. That then punishes others for what your parent did which is not fair to them and is not their burden to bear....but it is not easy to overcome either and the fears/thoughts nag in the subconscious continuously. Think carefully, weigh up the positives and negatives, try and let reality prevail, and then communicate more and see how you both can work through this situation to make it a forward growth step instead of backward. Good luck.

Catalina

I understand the point you're making... And I know that not everyone would use money to make me feel guilty or obligated. Some would, but honestly I think Z is not the type of person to do that. It's more that I have developed a life-long habit of always wondering if people are doing things for me because they *want* to or because they A) want something out of me that I might not want to give, or B) feel obligated to (and that's the worst. That would be the fear that stems back to my biological mom, of always being made to feel like SUCH a burden on her.)

So maybe what I need to do is accept change for change's sake, as you said. I am all about challenging myself... especially if the challenge is for the sake of something my Dominant wants or prefers. But, it's going to be very hard to overcome old habits. I think sometime in the near future we will work things out so that both of us feel comfortable.. but I still get the feeling it will be on His terms (duh.) I'll just have to, as He says, get used to it.

If he has the money, let him pay. If you wanna do something nice in return, buy him a small gift to give when you go out, but most guys don't attach strings to it all.

Well, so far not a day has gone by without us seeing each other, since the first day we met (after talking online for a week or so.) Don't you think it would get a little weird if every day I bought Him a gift? LOL

Have you tried thinking of it from his POV? If he was raised to feel that he should pay the way this early in the relationship, I'm gonna guarantee that he'd be VERY uncomfortable with you paying the way. My husband is like that, he's southern and he was raised to believe that a gentleman paid for the dates, especially early in the relationship. If I'd insisted on paying it would have made him feel very uncomfortable.

Beyond that - why are you worried about what's PC? Not to point out the obvious, but your whole relationship is sooooooo NOT PC. I mean, you're in a M/f D/s relationship - that's about as un-pc as it gets. The same feminists that say you should pay your half would string you up if they ever found out that your relationship is D/s.

Well, He's not southern, He's from Hawaii and we are a pretty laid-back state... I'm not sure how He was raised in that regard. I think His preference for paying has more to do with His personality and our relationship being D/S than the culture He and I were raised in. Like I said, I've never had a guy absolutely insist on paying like that. I've had many guys TRY to insist, but they always back down when *I* start to insist. I like that He's not a pushover, at least.

As for the PC comment... lol, you are totally on the ball on that one, Gracie. I don't know what to say in the face of your logic, hehe. Am I not allowed to be illogical and arbitrary? What, only the Doms are allowed to be like that? Ohhhhh... all this time I had it backwards!

I like to pay for everything on dates and shit. It makes me feel benificent and patriachal. Definitely a control thing.

Yup, I think He might feel similar to this.


*To be continued, have to go write an email

 

[Marquis]

Oh, and despite Marquis' posts in this thread, when we went out things were pretty much equal. We took turns., but I remember him paying for dinner and groceries and telling me to put my wallet away on several occasions when I tried to over-pay, lol.) (Sorry to rat you out, hun, but you know I'm speaking the truth! )

All in the interest of greater long-term financial abuse. Stop giving away my moves!

 

[Killishandra]

To answer the question, Killi, we've always been pretty 50/50, but that's a practicality thing more than anything else; our finances have been stable but not excessive and both have been approximately equal, so it only made sense to split the cost of long-distance travel, meals, and phone card bills until we wised up and moved in together. Now it's about the same...we generally know how the other's bank account is and who can treat the other to this meal or shopping trip. Not nearly as sexy as our two fine gentlemen's scheming ways, but hey, we never went broke and no one felt left out.

See, 50/50. Now, if only Doms were normal reasonable people, I could say to Z "See? My friend Quint's Dom lets her pay for half!"

LOL

For the first several years of our relationship, Daddy was the provider. E paid for my train tickets, all meals and drinks while I was there, bought me gifts (extravagant ones), all of that kind of thing. I'm not sure if it was because e made 3x-4x what I did, or because e felt it was the appropriate thing to do. A little over a year ago, though, the company e worked for closed and e lost eir job. Since then, I've paid for my own bus tickets (costs about 1/4 of what the train cost), paid for about half the meals, and we don't go out for drinks anymore. It does feel a little odd for me to pay for meals...I guess some might see it as service (remember that "looking for a money slave" post?!) but it wasn't the way we used to operate, so every time I take out my wallet I just get a weird little twinge.

I can see exactly why it would feel weird to you, Etoile... I think I get the same kind of weird twinge, but it's because I *am* used to taking out my wallet, and now I have to fight the urge.

With Draggie and I, he works and brings home the bacon, I keep the house clean (ish) and raise the baby (weekends are a free for all game, he cleans too) (yeah yea, I'm a domestic domme) it's not always a perfect 50/50 but it works for now, though when I have days that nothing gets done I feel bad. If I were working it would be more spread out, like his money would go for savings and bills and mine for fun or something like that, since right now I can only work at jobs that dont make nearly as much as he does so we would work that out when we got there. If I worked we'd definitely have more savings and I would be able to save faster for this really nice prezzy I want to get him (can't post what here, if he reads it it will ruin the suprise, it will be a loong time till I have enough). I've always insisted on splitting dates, though I've dated a moocher and went out a couple times with someone who refused to let me pay for even my own gumball (hello, 25 cent item, I've got it covered, trust me). Moochers are no fun, especially when they have no desire to move along and becoem a contributing member of the financial relationship. Seeing that you're considering a serious relationship with this individual and viceversa I would stand up and lay donw the law now (even if you are sub) because it won't get any easier once you are an "official" couple, trust me.

From what I know/see of your situation, it seems to work out quite well for you and dragon. And regardless of the D/s in a relationship, having a child puts a whole new spin on things... It becomes less important who is paying for what and more like "Our preferences aside, what is the best way to work things out to provide for our child." And I know you guys do a great job of that, lol. (Cause every time I see baby he is smiling and looking all around and irresistably cute... awww! sorry, gushy moment, lol. )

"Lay down the law now".... TS, if I didn't already know you are a Domme, you woulda just given yourself away.

Seriously though, I feel it's important to make sure He understands my feelings in all aspects of the relationship... but gradually, I will have to just trust Him more and more as time goes by (if we stay together and all goes well and etc etc. It's a bit soon to tell how compatible we are, seeing as how we're taking things slow.) For the moment, He's done a good job of explaining His feelings to me, and furthermore... When He explains it the way He does, I like the sound of it too. Although it's hard to figure things out with Him sometimes... He has a tendency to talk logic-y circles around me until I just kind of give up arguing with Him altogether.

Mwhaha. Money matters suck.

But seriously, he does pay for most of everything. He is much more responsible financially than I am and more often than not has a steady job. I suck on the other hand, and cannot seem to stay in one place for more than a second. However, we are both super poor students, so it comes straight down to having to stay fairly cheap anyways.

Doms tend to be much more financially responsible, I think, than subs. I'm not horrible with my money, but I could be doing ALOT better with it. Yet another reason (besides service) that I feel comfortable letting a Dom handle my finances. (Once He has proven trustworthy. Please, no one jump down my throat on this... everytime I say something like this, understand that I mean "Pending approval" ok?)

When I going out with a guy or gal and they have this attitude I let them pay. I make it pretty damned clear that though it is a nice thing, they are not to expect me to feel obligated and I don't. You can't buy me. Many people have tried. Money is not love. I've had lots of people try to control me with money and fail.

I can pay my own way. I don't need them to. If they need to pay, fine. I find a lot of people can't really give emotion and caring so they try to compensate with money and things. It's sad but it makes them minimally happy. *shrugs*

Others are simply trying to be gentlemen. I respect and appreciate that in a man. Currently, in this marriage we have separate accounts and responsibilities. We are constantly offering to help the other one out. Neither of us need help though. On dates he likes to pay. I handle a lot of other material concerns. It balances out in the end.

I don't know much about your relationship with, as I believe CC said, "Mr. Hottiepants." So all I can say is you are a very smart and lovely girl. I'm sure you'll find the right path for you in this case.

*hugs*

Fury

Aww... thank you for the compliments, FF.

I'm kinda surprised to hear you say that you and your hubby manage your own accounts, instead of having a joint one. Especially considering your relationship is D/s! All I can say is... "Different strokes for different folks."

I'm not surprised to hear you say the other stuff you just said, though... You seem like a strong-willed person, and I wouldnt' expect anyone to be able to pull a guilt-trip with you, hun! LOL

I have always liked paying for the dates, movies ect. in the early part of a relationship it was how I was raised. I even like to support my sub as much as she will let me. It's just me. If you like the feeling of him paying enjoy it. Do not feel like a mooch if he has clearly indicated he likes it this way, and do not feel indebit to him as you are doing as he asked.

Good advice... I like that He feels the way He does... I am starting to suspect I'm cutting the nose off my own face, so to speak. I'm going to just try to enjoy that He enjoys paying for me right now... He does other things too, like insist upon picking me up even when it is ridiculously out of His way to come get me, and I should just meet Him somewhere in the middle. As time goes on, there will be other ways for Him to take care of me and feel control... and He agrees that when that time comes, the decree on money usage will be relaxed. *is looking forward to that day*

Killi, if he is doing as an "old fashioned male" sort of thing, then you could respond with the "old fashioned female" response which is cooking dinner for him at his place or your place - you buy the food you will cook, maybe rent a movie at Blockbuster or Netflicks or something - that way, you didn't go "out" on a date, but you have contributed in food preparation and thoughtfulness of what to cook for him -

if he takes you out one night, then you can cook dinner for him another night - It may not be "financially" even, but it will let you take the responsibility for one evening's worth of food and entertainment to his evenings worth of same.

THIS is also great advice, thanks PL. And yes, I've thought about it... Unfortunately, I'm a horrible cook. However, I might try to get tricky... Invite Him over for dinner "at my house" and then have take-out waiting, lol. Or, I could attempt actual cooking... which I need to learn to do anyway, since I suck at it, and I would really like to be able to do better.

All in the interest of greater long-term financial abuse. Stop giving away my moves!

Sorry. *grins* But I don't have to return the super-secret decoder ring and Dom manual I stole from your nightstand, do I?

 

[Marquis]

Sorry. *grins* But I don't have to return the super-secret decoder ring and Dom manual I stole from your nightstand, do I?

Those were decoys, feel free to hold on to them.

 

[tealsphynx]

<snip>From what I know/see of your situation, it seems to work out quite well for you and dragon. And regardless of the D/s in a relationship, having a child puts a whole new spin on things... It becomes less important who is paying for what and more like "Our preferences aside, what is the best way to work things out to provide for our child." And I know you guys do a great job of that, lol. (Cause every time I see baby he is smiling and looking all around and irresistably cute... awww! sorry, gushy moment, lol. )

"Lay down the law now".... TS, if I didn't already know you are a Domme, you woulda just given yourself away.

Seriously though, I feel it's important to make sure He understands my feelings in all aspects of the relationship... but gradually, I will have to just trust Him more and more as time goes by (if we stay together and all goes well and etc etc. It's a bit soon to tell how compatible we are, seeing as how we're taking things slow.) For the moment, He's done a good job of explaining His feelings to me, and furthermore... When He explains it the way He does, I like the sound of it too. Although it's hard to figure things out with Him sometimes... He has a tendency to talk logic-y circles around me until I just kind of give up arguing with Him altogether. <snip>

Lol, Yeah Domme here just about all the way I don't really trust people that talk logic-y circles, makes me wonder what they're hiding. (well my last relationship guy was good at it suprisingly for a dumbass. He could talk me into believing my back window getting broken was my own fault when it was his fist that went through it....my relationship with him has made me a little suspicious of people that do similar kinda things (ie "logic" circles) Though I will do my best not to judge this guy since I havent met him) I also worry that even though you say that he says if/ as the relationship progresses it will change. I like to view the "consideration" period as a practice, and as a musician I learned that practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice does. Pracitce like each time is the "real" deal. practice like you're performing every time. So with that view I think he can "say" all he wants, its what he does that shows how the relationship will be. (again another well he might be telling the trueth but it's been my experience that they will "tell" you anything to get you hooked and once they've got you in the boat they'll keep doing as they've always done. sorry, again I can't remember the word I'm looking for, so I'm going to say I can be overly cautious..perhaps later Draggie will tell me what word it is i"m looking for cause I can't remember.

 

[Killishandra]

Lol, Yeah Domme here just about all the way I don't really trust people that talk logic-y circles, makes me wonder what they're hiding. (well my last relationship guy was good at it suprisingly for a dumbass. He could talk me into believing my back window getting broken was my own fault when it was his fist that went through it....my relationship with him has made me a little suspicious of people that do similar kinda things (ie "logic" circles) Though I will do my best not to judge this guy since I havent met him) I also worry that even though you say that he says if/ as the relationship progresses it will change. I like to view the "consideration" period as a practice, and as a musician I learned that practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice does. Pracitce like each time is the "real" deal. practice like you're performing every time. So with that view I think he can "say" all he wants, its what he does that shows how the relationship will be. (again another well he might be telling the trueth but it's been my experience that they will "tell" you anything to get you hooked and once they've got you in the boat they'll keep doing as they've always done. sorry, again I can't remember the word I'm looking for, so I'm going to say I can be overly cautious..perhaps later Draggie will tell me what word it is i"m looking for cause I can't remember.

You are a very good friend for looking out for me, TS. *hug*

Like I told ya on the phone yesterday, He lives quite close to you guys... So I am thinking you will get a chance to meet Him soon. He's already started introducing me to some of His friends, and I've met a couple of His brothers. It's about time to introduce Him to some of the people *I* think very highly of! So I'll keep you posted on that... Maybe we can all go out for co... coff.... COFFEE!!

*ahem* lol

Bedtime... I have to get up in 3 hours, aye yai yai... *poof*!

 

[Marquis]

You are a very good friend for looking out for me, TS. *hug*

Like I told ya on the phone yesterday, He lives quite close to you guys... So I am thinking you will get a chance to meet Him soon. He's already started introducing me to some of His friends, and I've met a couple of His brothers. It's about time to introduce Him to some of the people *I* think very highly of! So I'll keep you posted on that... Maybe we can all go out for co... coff.... COFFEE!!

*ahem* lol

Bedtime... I have to get up in 3 hours, aye yai yai... *poof*!

If this guy starts posting on lit, I'm outta here.

 

[tealsphynx]

Lol. yes coffee...the only reason I'm mostly alive at the moment. Coffee is a good neutral way to meet someone. I like it. '
Marquis- Lol, if/when I get a chance to meet him I'll let everyone here know what I think of him and as to wheather he is a "good" idea for our precious Killi (though you know kids these days they're bound to do what they want regardless of if it's a "good" idea. ) if he's a nice guy mabye you won't hae to leave if he starts posting (or <gasp> he could be here already and we don't know it! <looks around for imposters>) Though it might be like going to a neutral bbq where your ex happens to be (say ya'll still have the same friends) and she/he shows up with their new flame...yeah, maybe aukward. sorry, I'm caffinated and typing so I'm losing my thinking ability.

 

[sphynx's dragon]

OK, didn't think I'd end up posting here but here it is. I'll try to keep the "advice" portion of this short, sweet and concise. Practice like you play. Say what you really do mean and MEAN IT. Hold fast to your beliefs. If you're comfortable with it, dam the torpedoes and full speed ahead. But don't get in over your head by jumping in the deep end before you look. Last and not least, follow your heart and be true to yourself first and foremost before and above all others. <sigh>

Well now that thats over.

Did I hear COFFEE?!?!

Yes, yes I did. We can definitely do coffee pretty easily, since there's several places around here that we can do so. Though we understand about the current situation with your time but when ya got a little time let us know!


And lastly, watch out for cows.

 

[FurryFury]

<snip> Aww... thank you for the compliments, FF.

I'm kinda surprised to hear you say that you and your hubby manage your own accounts, instead of having a joint one. Especially considering your relationship is D/s! All I can say is... "Different strokes for different folks."

I'm not surprised to hear you say the other stuff you just said, though... You seem like a strong-willed person, and I wouldnt' expect anyone to be able to pull a guilt-trip with you, hun! LOL <snip>

Hi Killi!

First, my husband and I do not have a D/s relationship. I kind of wish we did but we are more like two switches or subs together that play parts to please the other and reciprocate than in a D/s relatioship. Sometimes we are vanilla as well. This has been part of a huge dilemma for me that being at lit and talking with people has helped a great deal.

The BDSM parts of our relationship are mostly in the bedroom only. Unless you count the almost constant sexual teasing I do. I've had to seduce him to it. He "didn't understand BDSM and wanted no part of it.

I've never even tried to seduce anyone before. They were always more than willing to do whatever I wanted. I have never wanted to make someone do something like this before. It was never that strong a pull for me to disregard their strong fear and dislike of something and make them come around.

I personally believe that most people can be drawn and learn to appreciate this. I needed to make it happen for me. So I've been selfish with it. He has always been willing to experiment with new things, thank goodness. I think now he would allow that he is enjoying our sex life much more. He might even admit that he enjoys spanking and being spanked. Of course Anal sex both ways has become a huge thing for us. Temperature play is building up with us. Next I want to get a flogger and some restraints.

Back to money. In my first marriage to a real jerk, our money was pooled into a household account. Okay, I'll admit I still kept my own checking account and savings. I have some pretty firm money issues. I've always made my own money, even as a kid. Anyway, we would both put money into the house hold account to pay for our joint monthly expenses.

He made usually more money than I did but I essentially paid his way through law school and half of our expenses. I had money coming in from other sources that made my overall income greater. It's complicated to say the least. (Let's just say it was almost as if I were an heiress with a small trust fund.) So we had separate accounts and a joint account. He had my name on his and vice versa but we didn't use each others accounts.

That way I could buy a new business suit or he could waste money on betting and we didn't have to get uptight on what the other one did with our disposable incomes. Now I arranged for us to get the house he wanted about the third year we were together. That became a very complicated thing because basically we couldn't afford it. He wanted it. Therefore I found a way.

We shared a couple of credit cards which I paid off each month. So the house was the only debt we had. When he left, we both had trouble getting separate new credit cards because of this hugely expensive house we were both responsible for.

I found a way to get a credit card. I still pay them off each month but I like the convenience and record keeping they provide. I was livid that the house made it so hard to get my own credit card. I vowed that would never happen again. I would never co-mingle funds again period.

So that is why we have separate accounts today. My husband is totally cool with this as he is with most things. I still pay at least half of everything.

He makes way more than me though. I don't even have to work. I do so because I love what I do. I like having my own money. I am very frugal with myself and in general except when it comes to my loved ones. Our system has worked well for us.

I refuse to "fight" over a bill when out with people. I will offer to pick it up. I will tell them they can get the next one, then forget whose turn it is when we are together again. Anyone who insists on paying can do so. I hate that scene of fighting over it. I grew up with my parents and grandparents doing that. Make no mistake they did it for the tentative strings and control it could give them. I fucking hate that shit. So that is my rather long winded explanation.

The compliments are well deserved! You are quite a remarkable person!

*hugs*

Fury

 

[rosco rathbone]

I agree. Are you from the south? I get the impression it's a southern thing.

First Families of Virginia, baby.

 

[Willow Rain]

Let him pay.

It's what he wants to do.

If you want to spend money on him, with him, do it in other ways. Invite him for dinner that you make. Splurge, get filet minon, or good chocolate. Feed him shrimp at your house. Spoil him. Buy panties with cash you could have spent on dinner and tell him so. You bought dinner for me... and I bought, (flash panties here) these for you.

For some men, providing is important to them, powerful and potent. I would say don't undermine that for him. Don't take it for granted, thank him, let him know that you feel he is being generous and spoiling you, and then honey... let him do it.

Spoil him back in your own way. Save up all that date money you would be spending and sneak him off for a weekend in the mountains.

Quit feeling guilty and learn to be gracious.

 

[Killishandra]

If this guy starts posting on lit, I'm outta here.

I don't know if you're joking or not, but I'm going to assume there's at least a bit of seriousness behind that statement, which makes me quite sad. I'd be really REALLY bummed if you stopped posting, and I'd feel really guilty if it were due to me in some way.

That being said... Frick, Marquis! The night I went out with Him, you told me how happy you were that I was dating another Dom, how it didn't even upset you, and how you were proud of me for moving on. Then a couple of days ago, your whole attitude changed... /sigh. I guess it is the "Dom's privelege" thing of being illogical and arbitrary, but damn your moods change with the tides hun.

I try to be happy for you and C even though I am no longer a big part of either of your lives, and even though I had to battle to overcome all my hurt feelings. All I ask in return is that you try to be happy for me in return.

And for the record, he is neither lurking nor posting here.

 

[Killishandra]

Let him pay.

It's what he wants to do.

If you want to spend money on him, with him, do it in other ways. Invite him for dinner that you make. Splurge, get filet minon, or good chocolate. Feed him shrimp at your house. Spoil him. Buy panties with cash you could have spent on dinner and tell him so. You bought dinner for me... and I bought, (flash panties here) these for you.

For some men, providing is important to them, powerful and potent. I would say don't undermine that for him. Don't take it for granted, thank him, let him know that you feel he is being generous and spoiling you, and then honey... let him do it.

Spoil him back in your own way. Save up all that date money you would be spending and sneak him off for a weekend in the mountains.

Quit feeling guilty and learn to be gracious.

You summed it up quite nicely, Willow Rain. Makes good sense! And actually, I brought Him lunch today at His work and I think I will find ways to "compensate" for the fact that He pays when we go out. The weekend trip thing is an excellent idea... I can certainly afford to do something like that, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it until we've known each other for longer. There's some good suggestions in your post though... Thank you.

 

[D's mariposa]

In general, D and I sort of have separate finances, but not really.

When we got together, I was in debt up to my ears, (now it's only about waist deep), and though I was making more fundage than he was, he felt (as did I) that I really needed to get a handle on this situation. I paid half the rent, and we basically took turns buying groceries. Then at the end of the month, I gave him whatever was left after my pre-existing bills were paid. Later, when he was out of work due to a natural disaster (several forest fires closed down his job two summers in a row) I paid everything for a while. When I was really sick last winter, he covered just about everything. Nowadays, since our incomes are about the same and I have managed to take a huge chunk out of my debt, we pay pretty evenly. I don't, however, just hand him over my check, and be done with it.

The reasons for this are varied. First off, with my sperm donor, he used $$$$ to control my mother and sister and me. I received NO allowance until we left him. I had to literally beg him for pocket money. It was humiliating in a not good way, especially when I saw my mother doing the same thing. The step and half brothers went to private schools and got cars to learn to drive on and credit cards at 17. My mother had to pick a time when he seemed to be in a good mood, make an itemized list of what she wanted to buy for us girls and herself and hope he decided to be generous. We're not talking about cd's and books and roller skates. We're talking school clothes, school books, tram fare. lunch money and "feminine needs" and the like. He used money to control us, and because of this, D has never ever asked the same of me. Eventually, I came to a point in my submission and trust where I was willing to do this, to give him all my check and request funds back for my needs. But because I offered to do this, in spite of the fact that it made me uncomfortable, he said no. Now I deposit my checks, withdraw a lump sum from at the same time, take out what I need and simply hand it to him. No questions asked. When we go out together, we tend to take turns buying based on whose idea it was. Money is still a hot button for me; and when I am short and have to ask for funds, I get all stupid and uncomfortable about it. In the past, it's gone far enough that I've run my car out of gas and had to call for a rescue, or skipped meals at work because I hadn't wanted to ask for help. But I'm working on it.

Another reason that he keeps me involved in our finances is that I need to know this stuff. D is about 25 years older than me. Like it or not, I'm most likely going to outlive him and I need to know where our money is, how to access it. There's this whole romantic ideal of the PYL taking care of everything for a pyl, leaving them helpless if anything happens. I've seen it happen before. It's not pretty. Not only was the pyl unaware of where the money was, she was also unaware of their debts (which became her's when her PYL died) and since they were not married, she didn't get to keep anything anyway. The estate went to probate and the PYL's sister got the house, the money, the everything and the pyl got a shitload of Credit Card debt.

Anyway, D is telling me to hurry as we're heading out for dinner (he's paying btw, tonight, but I paid last time.. ).


edit

I was in a hurry, and realized I'd forgotten something else. Going back to the turning over the paycheck and total financial submission. There actually is another way around "stranding" a sub financially; and that is to find another person, PYL whatever to stand in if anything happens to the PYL. That is, find someone all parties in the relationship trust enough to take over and get the pyl on their feet. But it seems like it'd be easier to make sure that the pyl knows what to do, rather than hope someone else will be able to take care of the situation if the worst does happen.

 

[Private_Label]

I can see where people are coming from with the separate accounts, Killi. When my mom got divorced back in 1970 (when middle class people didn't do such things) she had to rebuild her life and savings. Basically she came out of the marriage with half the house and alimoney (which was never ever paid) and child support (with checks that often bounced). She would recomend something like FurryFury's solution, a yours, mine and ours accounts. I have to agree with that to some extent.

I used to be very frugal and could afford to occasionally splurg on impulse items because I saved every bit I could. But I went through a spell of long term unemployment followed by low paying work that just kept my head above water and left nothing to use to pay off outstanding credit card balances. I'd just pay the minimum to keep afloat. I'm still under paid (but have been talking to my boss about a substantial raise lately and he is willing to go to bat for me) - and now I am living back at home.

Basically I turn my paycheck over to my mom and she gives me an allowance out of it (or rather, I give myself an allowance out of it). I'm thinking that when I get into a long term relationship, that would be something I'd want to continue just to keep myself on track.