New/Foreign authors, please ease up on the disclaimers

[Bamagan]

Spoilers have never bothered me. I'd rather not throw up after getting to that point of a story because I wasn't warned about it and know my limits on what I can and can't handle reading.

Does anyone know if there's a way to mark opening warnings like that to be a spoiler tag within the story? Because that would be a huge boon to readers who *want* to know what to prepare for within a story as well as the ones who *don't* want to know what happens before they read it.

I don't think Lit supports any text-blurring codes on the story side. But if marking an opening statement as a warning, intro, foreword etc. doesn't stop people who like to go in blind from reading them, they might just be untrainable.
It's ironic, in a way, because in real life I've observed that a great many people ignore warning signs completely, especially when they already know the sign is trying to tell them something they don't want to hear, like 'keep out of the dunes' or 'stay on the trail' and so forth.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But if marking an opening statement as a warning, intro, foreword etc. doesn't stop people who like to go in blind from reading them, they might just be untrainable.

The readers need training, hrmm. :/

 

[TheArsonist]

I suppose since some readers react so negatively to them, stories that include disclaimers should include a content warning about disclaimers.

Personally I think that like any other aspect of a story or its "apparatus" (title, tags, description, etc.), they can be done well or they can be done badly, and as a reader I appreciate the good ones and find some of the bad ones obnoxious.

A brief summary of a long story can fill the role of a back-cover blurb, and a notice that it's a slow burn with no sex in this chapter, or that flags any niche and unexpected kinks, is appreciated to let me decide whether it's something I'm interested in reading. Others are unnecessary but inoffensive, and as a reader I just ignore them.

On the other hand, there are some authors whose "disclaimers" seem more like they're picking a fight with readers or have a chip on their shoulder. For example, one author keeps insisting that there are no spelling errors in the following story because they've used spell check.

Most intriguing (and sometimes worrying) are the disclaimers that raise questions already answered by the disclaimer; in other words, those that by their very presence make you doubt their truth.

 

[StillStunned]

Surely you aren't addressing that to me.

I misinterpreted your reference to "stroking". Sorry.

 

[StillStunned]

I'm intrigued. Could this be an example of "simple erotica??????" Will you let us know here when it's published.

I submitted the story for publication last night.

In the meantime, try Pas de Trois. A serious erotic story with no story beyond setting the scene.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The disclaimers aren’t needed. No one who reads your story is going to say, “oh I thought he was a racist, but look right here, the disclaimer says he isn’t.” If you’re not a native English speaker, we’ll pick that up in the writing pretty easily. And, if it’s not apparent, then good job!

My first story here used a term which is very mild in Australian English but a major racial slur in UK English. Some of my readers were not familiar with the Australian use and thought I was using it in the UK sense.

So, yeah, I added a note about that at the start of that chapter. Less because I'm afraid of being mistaken for a racist by somebody who I'll probably never interact with again, more because I don't want to ruin their enjoyment with a "did they just say something hugely racist?" moment.

 

[yowser]

This of course is an aesthetic issue, so is unlikely to be settled to everyone's satisfaction. I have no issue with an interesting author saying something intelligent about their work, and I agree with @TheArsonist that it all depends on how it is written.

I personally, like @pink_silk_glove, find most preface-like appendages here to be brainless, self-centered or irrelevant, often all three. I think writers are better served by concentrating on the first segment of their tale than whatever they decide to put up front. I can usually tell by the first few sentences or paragraphs if a piece is worth continuing, and I'd rather spend my time doing that.

Exception is a quick (one sentence) note that the piece is part of a contest/challenge: that lets readers know it is part of a larger effort by authors and they may want to check out the other stories in the list.

Strangest of all is when the site itself introduces a forewarning. This has happened multiple times for me, usually either 'MM action involved' or 'non-consensual content' type notations. Odd.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I'd say that many AH people here are making one basic mistake - giving opinions based on what this foreword and disclaimer practice looks like to them. You are not the target audience for those. None of you represents the average reader.
Sure, there are many overly long forewords, some of them an expression of pure vanity. But concise forewords and disclaimers have their rightful purpose in any longer work or series because they are useful to an average Lit reader, and because of course, they are useful for maximizing the scores and meaningful feedback.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I'd say that many AH people here are making one basic mistake - giving opinions based on what this foreword and disclaimer practice looks like to them. You are not the target audience for those. None of you represents the average reader.

Again, this is feedback that you are ignoring. Also, again, only certain people should read this and make sure that they are reading it the right way. Such disclaimers are telling the readers that they have to be members of the club or they're not welcome. What a great way to say 'fuck you' to the readers.

Yes, this is how it reads to me and I'm a valid potential reader. If you don't want me as a reader then fuck it. Great I won't read it and you've just protected your score and comments just as you intended. This could not be more snooty. If you don't want to dismiss my feedback of how it reads to me, it just confirms that you only want positive feedback, you're in it for the applause and you don't want legit criticism. You write from fear.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Again, this is feedback that you are ignoring. Also, again, only certain people should read this and make sure that they are reading it the right way. Such disclaimers are telling the readers that they have to be members of the club or they're not welcome. What a great way to say 'fuck you' to the readers.

Yes, this is how it reads to me and I'm a valid potential reader. If you don't want me as a reader then fuck it. Great I won't read it and you've just protected your score and comments just as you intended. This could not be more snooty. If you don't want to dismiss my feedback of how it reads to me, it just confirms that you only want positive feedback, you're in it for the applause and you don't want legit criticism. You write from fear.

No, I write from pragmatism. No approach will ever satisfy everyone, so we tailor our approach having in mind the majority of readers. I can't do much if such an approach pisses off demanding readers such as yourself.
And it's not about wanting only positive feedback; I strongly disagree with that claim. I want a reader to tell me: "That description of anal sex wasn't right. You should have..." rather than "OMG, Anal sex is so fucking disgusting! I was enjoying the story up until that point. Fuck you for ruining the story for me! 1*"
The fact that that reader hates anal sex is completely irrelevant for me. That's not useful feedback in any way. A reader telling me I wrote anal sex wrong is potentially very useful feedback.
But more than that, that completely unjustified 1* (and it's definitely unjustified as the reader was enjoying the story but ended up giving the 1* due to a strong personal dislike for that kink) would bring my score down and worsen my chance of reaching my readership. They use the scores among other things to select what to read from the tens of thousands of free stories. It's a simple if somewhat sad truth. That's why we adapt and put disclaimers and forewarnings.

I did it in one of my fantasy series and I am confident it brought some extra readers to me, readers who were put off by the presence of sexual femdom in the story, but were willing to stay for the sake of the fantasy story because I said that femdom was sexual only and that it would taper off towards the end. I certainly don't like having to say all that but I am almost certain it was useful in encouraging more people to read it.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But more than that, that completely unjustified 1* (and it's definitely unjustified as the reader was enjoying the story but ended up giving the 1* due to a strong personal dislike for that kink) would bring my score down and worsen my chance of reaching my readership. They use the scores among other things to select what to read from the tens of thousands of free stories. It's a simple if somewhat sad truth. That's why we adapt and put disclaimers and forewarnings.

Writing for a score.

 

[StillStunned]

Writing for a score.

You know, there's nothing wrong with wanting to match with the right audience.

Now I'm sure you'll say "I write what I want." Good for you. I expect everyone else here does as well. But readers read what they want, and for the writer-reader relationship to function successfully there needs to be a proper understanding of what the writer has written for the reader to read. If a disclaimer can help that understanding, great, then it serves a purpose.

But to say "I write what I want and screw the readers, they have to rate it on merit regardless of their likes, dislikes, preferences, expectations and whatever" is not only short-sighted, but also disrespectful. It doesn't make you a better author, or morally superior, or a long-suffering misunderstood artiste.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But to say "I write what I want and screw the readers, they have to rate it on merit regardless of their likes, dislikes, preferences, expectations and whatever" is not only short-sighted, but also disrespectful. It doesn't make you a better author, or morally superior, or a long-suffering misunderstood artiste.

I never said that.

 

[StillStunned]

I never said that.

No, you just have a habit of sneering "pandering" or "writing for a score".

 

[Voboy]

Writing for a score.

If that's part of their motivation, who are you to imply that they're wrong?

Surely you don't presume that you know their motivations better than they do themselves... Even if not, @AwkwardlySet explains precisely why he's motivated that way, in that a higher score attracts more readers.

Why would you possibly have any issue with that?

 

[TheLobster]

And it's not about wanting only positive feedback; I strongly disagree with that claim. I want a reader to tell me: "That description of anal sex wasn't right. You should have..." rather than "OMG, Anal sex is so fucking disgusting! I was enjoying the story up until that point. Fuck you for ruining the story for me! 1*"

Mismatched kinks is what the category and tag system is meant to prevent. It’s debatable how well it’s doing that, of course, so I can understand why some authors feel the need to repeat the tags in the foreword.

In the ideal word, no one would have to do that, but this would require site’s UI to be fixed and it seems like achieving world peace would be easier.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If that's part of their motivation, who are you to imply that they're wrong?

Surely you don't presume that you know their motivations better than they do themselves...

I'm not. I never have. I'm just telling you how it reads.

 

[Voboy]

I'm not. I never have. I'm just telling you how it reads.

To you. Yes.

Most of us realize that you are not the sole arbiter of How Things Should Read. I'm not sure why we should give your feedback any more value than any other reader leaving, say, a 5*.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

To you. Yes.

Most of us realize that you are not the sole arbiter of How Things Should Read. I'm not sure why we should give your feedback any more value than any other reader leaving, say, a 5*.

But you're not even giving my feedback equal value. You;re dismissing it. Again, you're just invalidating my feedback because you don't like it. You do you.

You're also assuming my motivations by assuming that I'm assuming your motivations, which I have explained more than once in this thread that I am not, which I is quite hypocritical (or certainly ironic), no?

 

[TheArsonist]

You're also assuming my motivations

No, we're just telling you how it reads.

 

[Voboy]

But you're not even giving my feedback equal value. You;re dismissing it.

I am, but even if I wasn't? I'd factor it in against my own, and others' in this thread. You are in a considerable minority. Not that that matters to you, but if we're weighting feedback, that's one way of assessing it. No?

Again, you're just invalidating my feedback because you don't like it. You do you.

It has nothing to do with whether I like it or not. That's your assumption. I invalidate your feedback because I've read enough of it here over the years to realize that you and I have fundamentally different ideas of how writers present their work. So I invalidate it because it has no relevance to my way of thinking about writing.

It's your opinion. It doesn't matter whether I like it or not. My main issue with you, as ever, is not the nature of your opinions. It's how you assume your opinions should matter to others, then haughtily double down when they don't matter to others. Speaking only for myself, it's an attitude whose negatives outweigh whatever positive effect your contributions might have on their face.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Writing for a score.

You know, I am not sure you have a full grasp of this "discussion" thing.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I am, but even if I wasn't? I'd factor it in against my own, and others' in this thread. You are in a considerable minority. Not that that matters to you, but if we're weighting feedback, that's one way of assessing it. No?

Oh?

I'd say that many AH people here are making one basic mistake - giving opinions based on what this foreword and disclaimer practice looks like to them. You are not the target audience for those. None of you represents the average reader.

None of me. At all. In the slightest. How is that not dismissing me?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

You know, I am not sure you have a full grasp of this "discussion" thing.

I just speak the truth. If I bruised your ego that's not my problem so don't blame me. Or go ahead, hold onto your ego. Stay butthurt. Whatever.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I just speak the truth. If I bruised your ego that's not my problem so don't blame me. Or go ahead, hold onto your ego. Stay butthurt. Whatever.

Oh god. I am not butthurt or angry with you. You are a well-known quantity in AH, as I myself am probably too. You are not treating me worse than anyone else and I have no reason to be angry or anything. I also strongly believe you are not trolling, I believe you are stating your actual convictions. What I do criticize is the doubling-down that @Voboy has so nicely explained.
I offered a detailed explanation of why it makes sense to have disclaimers, and instead of engaging the points I was making, you wrote one dismissive line that I write for scores. Your often belligerent doubling-down reactions can't lead to a meaningful discussion and I am not sure you are completely aware of that.