Not Submissive Anymore: A Spinoff

[Keroin]

I would never say "fuck you" to my dominant. Even when he is wrong. I wouldn't say it to my vanilla husband either. It is disrespectful in both cases. I also would not tolerate either of them saying the same to me.

It is not that I think my dominant is the second coming or that he is better then me in any way, but I agreed to always show respect for our roles when I speak to him. But I tend to be respectful no matter whom I speak to. There certainly are better ways to show dissatisfaction for a request or change in status then "Fuck you".

I have the tiniest suspicion that CM wasn't being literal. There are any number of respectful and polite variations of "Fuck that; you're wrong".

 

[ecstaticsub]

I have the tiniest suspicion that CM wasn't being literal. There are any number of respectful and polite variations of "Fuck that; you're wrong".

Perhaps i over reacted.

However...I don't ever tell my dominant that he is wrong either. I may think it, hell, I may know it and know that he knows it too but I don't tell him. I'm no pathetic suzysupersub but I pick my battles, I know what in the end will get me what I want.

 

[sweepthefloor]

Maybe I am not submissive either. I am angry and I wanted to stuff the little shirt I found in his kitchen that belongs to someone else: in his mouth. I wanted to really shove it in his mouth.

Then I woke up and realized that I am angry at myself.

 

[KoPilot]

Perhaps i over reacted.

However...I don't ever tell my dominant that he is wrong either. I may think it, hell, I may know it and know that he knows it too but I don't tell him. I'm no pathetic suzysupersub but I pick my battles, I know what in the end will get me what I want.

How will he learn if you don't help give him the opportunity to correct it or better himself? I mean, I never flat out tell him "you're wrong/fucked up", but not acknowledging mistakes seems like bad policy to me.

 

[ecstaticsub]

How will he learn if you don't help give him the opportunity to correct it or better himself? I mean, I never flat out tell him "you're wrong/fucked up", but not acknowledging mistakes seems like bad policy to me.

It is not my job to hep him better himself. I do give him feedback, but that is a far, far cry from telling someone they are wrong, or they fucked up. Besides, he is not a stupid man. He knows me and my emotions. He knows if he could have done something in a different way. He doesn't need me to out right tell him and rub his face in his mistake.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

I'm not sure I understand what you're alluding to. What types of feelings are you referring to that are being suppressed?

I simply mean that whatever feelings someone has going on that they shouldn't hold the feelings back...they should explore and release them because they need to come out. I wasn't really directing it at any particular poster or feeling. I just read in so many threads people saying that they shouldn't feel certain things, or bash themselves for being "overly" emotional. I don't think that is valuable to do this, or to worry a lot about it, and really it can be quite cruel. More often than not, we say things to ourselves that we would never consider saying to someone else we cared about. I know having compassion for myself has been a tough practice to embrace, but has also helped me more than anything else in the process of my own healing.

 

[KoPilot]

It is not my job to hep him better himself. I do give him feedback, but that is a far, far cry from telling someone they are wrong, or they fucked up. Besides, he is not a stupid man. He knows me and my emotions. He knows if he could have done something in a different way. He doesn't need me to out right tell him and rub his face in his mistake.

Well, there's a huge difference between not saying anything and "rubbing his face in his mistakes". There's like... an entire world in there.

 

[BiBunny]

The problem is, at least with me, is that when I hold my tongue, I become resentful. And I'm to the point now that if you can't handle my telling you that you don't know what the hell you're talking about and that I'm not going to go along with such idiocy, then you probably can't handle me, period.

The last thing I need in my life is more resentment. I've got enough of that built up for two or three lifetimes. I'm done holding my tongue and sacrificing my sanity for someone else's ego. Therefore...not submissive anymore.

Others may be strong enough to do it. I'm just...not.

 

[HottieMama]

The problem is, at least with me, is that when I hold my tongue, I become resentful. And I'm to the point now that if you can't handle my telling you that you don't know what the hell you're talking about and that I'm not going to go along with such idiocy, then you probably can't handle me, period.

The last thing I need in my life is more resentment. I've got enough of that built up for two or three lifetimes. I'm done holding my tongue and sacrificing my sanity for someone else's ego. Therefore...not submissive anymore.

Others may be strong enough to do it. I'm just...not.

There are days when I really do think we were separated at birth. LOL.

I can't pinpoint precisely WHEN I lost the ability to hold my tongue, but all I know is that I have. Not only do I get resentful, but I also get very, VERY angry. It's anger that comes out in convoluted ways as well. It gets directed at innocent people, or turned inward toward myself. I'm done punishing myself for other people's mistakes. I make enough of my own.

I also agree that if "you" can't accept that, then you aren't meant to be with me. I know I am "difficult" by some standards, but I have gotten to the point where I know I am worth it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I just read this article: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/31/arts/music/helene-grimaud-and-claudio-abbado-part-ways.html

The article talks about one particular incident, but I wonder if anyone else sees what I think is the real cause of this separation?

 

[bhndblueyes88]

The problem is, at least with me, is that when I hold my tongue, I become resentful. And I'm to the point now that if you can't handle my telling you that you don't know what the hell you're talking about and that I'm not going to go along with such idiocy, then you probably can't handle me, period.

The last thing I need in my life is more resentment. I've got enough of that built up for two or three lifetimes. I'm done holding my tongue and sacrificing my sanity for someone else's ego. Therefore...not submissive anymore.

Others may be strong enough to do it. I'm just...not.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel you need to hold your tongue in order to be submissive? I don't see why that need be the case.

 

[BiBunny]

There are days when I really do think we were separated at birth. LOL.

I can't pinpoint precisely WHEN I lost the ability to hold my tongue, but all I know is that I have. Not only do I get resentful, but I also get very, VERY angry. It's anger that comes out in convoluted ways as well. It gets directed at innocent people, or turned inward toward myself. I'm done punishing myself for other people's mistakes. I make enough of my own.

I also agree that if "you" can't accept that, then you aren't meant to be with me. I know I am "difficult" by some standards, but I have gotten to the point where I know I am worth it.

Yep, I'm pretty sure we're the same person. I get angry, too, but I'm better at controlling it nowadays.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel you need to hold your tongue in order to be submissive? I don't see why that need be the case.

I used to hold my tongue because I knew the next thing that came out of my mouth after yet another set of stupid instructions or whatever would be "You don't even know what you're talking about, do you?" or "Maybe if you wouldn't go behind me and fuck up the kitchen right after I finished cleaning it, it wouldn't be dirty right now and wouldn't need cleaning YET AGAIN" or "You're an idiot" or "Fold your own damn laundry, don't you see I'm working?" or some variation thereof. So I would do whatever dumbass thing I was told to do without letting what was in my head fall out of my mouth because I didn't want to hear them bitch.

After a million times of cleaning the kitchen, only to have them all sling their dirty dishes in the sink ten minutes after I finished rather than take one step to the left and put them in the dishwasher and a zillion other petty things just like that, I felt like everything I did went completely unappreciated and wondered why the fuck they didn't just pay a maid like normal people would. Finally, I quit bothering altogether.

If I could do it all over again? I'd totally say "Clean the kitchen your damn self, since you're the one who got it dirty in the first place, Mr. 'I'm-In-My-30s-And-Still-Leave-The-Fucking-Milk-Out-On-The-Counter-Rather-Than-Turn-My-Lazy-Ass-Around-And-Put-It-In-The-Refrigerator'" before I'd do it without speaking a word and allow all that resentment to grow inside me and feel undervalued, unappreciated, and totally uncared for. Those feelings do horrible things to me and lead to me doing horrible things to myself and other people.

Not that I'm bitter or anything.

It's just that in my experience in being in that kind of relationship and in talking to others who are or have been in similar ones, "doms" want somebody to wipe their asses for them because they're too lazy/stupid/narcissistic/any combination of the above to do it themselves. And all I can say to that is "Never again." D/s feels exploitative to me now.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Yep, I'm pretty sure we're the same person. I get angry, too, but I'm better at controlling it nowadays.



I used to hold my tongue because I knew the next thing that came out of my mouth after yet another set of stupid instructions or whatever would be "You don't even know what you're talking about, do you?" or "Maybe if you wouldn't go behind me and fuck up the kitchen right after I finished cleaning it, it wouldn't be dirty right now and wouldn't need cleaning YET AGAIN" or "You're an idiot" or "Fold your own damn laundry, don't you see I'm working?" or some variation thereof. So I would do whatever dumbass thing I was told to do without letting what was in my head fall out of my mouth because I didn't want to hear them bitch.

After a million times of cleaning the kitchen, only to have them all sling their dirty dishes in the sink ten minutes after I finished rather than take one step to the left and put them in the dishwasher and a zillion other petty things just like that, I felt like everything I did went completely unappreciated and wondered why the fuck they didn't just pay a maid like normal people would. Finally, I quit bothering altogether.

If I could do it all over again? I'd totally say "Clean the kitchen your damn self, since you're the one who got it dirty in the first place, Mr. 'I'm-In-My-30s-And-Still-Leave-The-Fucking-Milk-Out-On-The-Counter-Rather-Than-Turn-My-Lazy-Ass-Around-And-Put-It-In-The-Refrigerator'" before I'd do it without speaking a word and allow all that resentment to grow inside me and feel undervalued, unappreciated, and totally uncared for. Those feelings do horrible things to me and lead to me doing horrible things to myself and other people.

Not that I'm bitter or anything.

It's just that in my experience in being in that kind of relationship and in talking to others who are or have been in similar ones, "doms" want somebody to wipe their asses for them because they're too lazy/stupid/narcissistic/any combination of the above to do it themselves. And all I can say to that is "Never again." D/s feels exploitative to me now.

Do you think you might be able to be submissive again with someone who *didn't* display these woeful tendancies of your exes?

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

It is not my job to hep him better himself. I do give him feedback, but that is a far, far cry from telling someone they are wrong, or they fucked up. Besides, he is not a stupid man. He knows me and my emotions. He knows if he could have done something in a different way. He doesn't need me to out right tell him and rub his face in his mistake.

I'd think "rubbing someone's face in their mistake" would only really be true if you harped on said mistake, or used it against them. I think just raising the issue wouldn't fall in that category.

I don't see any harm in laying it out, having the discussion, and moving on.

 

[eastern sun]

So, I identify as slave, and I have no problem at all speaking my mind, saying "fuck you," and harping on mistakes. I just reap the consequences of doing so.

Relationships aren't perfect. Ever. Our behavior towards each other isn't perfect.

But the more clearly and coherently I speak my mind, and the less I try to make him feel bad about himself, the better the outcome. And that has proven true for years.

 

[intothewoods]

Do you think you might be able to be submissive again with someone who *didn't* display these woeful tendancies of your exes?

Yes. I think that for almost everyone in a relationship, D/s or not, you will hit a point where you push back, where both people push back. Either you and the other person continue to evolve in that moment or you don't. If you don't, these wounds eventually fester to the point where they can no longer heal.

 

[KoPilot]

So, I identify as slave, and I have no problem at all speaking my mind, saying "fuck you," and harping on mistakes. I just reap the consequences of doing so.

Relationships aren't perfect. Ever. Our behavior towards each other isn't perfect.

But the more clearly and coherently I speak my mind, and the less I try to make him feel bad about himself, the better the outcome. And that has proven true for years.

Exactly. Like I said, there's a whole world of words and expectations and actions in between "acknowledgement" and "no acknowledgement".

I speak my mind, or at least hint at it, but I've never had the desire (or the courage?) to harp on him about things that he's done. Clarity is especially important for us now... I've been introducing him to the feminist movement and ideas over the past month or so because it's very important to me, but he says that he gets this horrendous feeling of guilt whenever we get into a major discussion about it. On the one hand I want to ease him into it because I care and don't want to see him distressed (because uh, every instance of misogyny in the world or has ever happened to me isn't his fault), but at the same time, I don't want to cater to his sensitivity because it's counter-productive and undermines the whole point. So I've been learning some hard lessons over the past month on finding a happy medium between those two competing extremes. And yeah, there are an almost endless variety of communication styles and methods in there and it is very possible to achieve my goal without turning into a bully.

 

[intothewoods]

<snip> the more clearly and coherently I speak my mind, and the less I try to make him feel bad about himself, the better the outcome. </snip>

Absolutely. And I learn so much when I try to see where the other person is coming from too.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I am happy to report--

I AM submissive enough.

I am not some newbie sub in fantasyland, I am not a doormat, I don't have self-esteem issues, I don't tell my dominant "fuck you" in any way shape or form.

My dominant is a sane, smart, firm but compassionate man who does not ask anything more of me then he knows I can give. He does not give me meaningless tasks to perform. He loves me and I love him.

I am proud to be an obedient owned submissive

No more negativity for me.

 

[the captians wench]

So, I identify as slave, and I have no problem at all speaking my mind, saying "fuck you," and harping on mistakes. I just reap the consequences of doing so.

Relationships aren't perfect. Ever. Our behavior towards each other isn't perfect.

But the more clearly and coherently I speak my mind, and the less I try to make him feel bad about himself, the better the outcome. And that has proven true for years.

This is where I think i am now as well.

I used to just "grin and bear it' what ever "it" was. Now I'm voicing my opinions and my disaproval more. It doesn't always do anything, but I think the domly ones in my life apreciate it on some level.

 

[BiBunny]

Do you think you might be able to be submissive again with someone who *didn't* display these woeful tendancies of your exes?

Nope. The anger is reflexive now. But that's ok. I think it will protect me from falling into the same kind of situation again.

I am happy to report--

I AM submissive enough.

I am not some newbie sub in fantasyland, I am not a doormat, I don't have self-esteem issues, I don't tell my dominant "fuck you" in any way shape or form.

My dominant is a sane, smart, firm but compassionate man who does not ask anything more of me then he knows I can give. He does not give me meaningless tasks to perform. He loves me and I love him.

I am proud to be an obedient owned submissive

No more negativity for me.

Congratulations. You're very lucky.

 

[the captians wench]

I am happy to report--

I AM submissive enough.

I am not some newbie sub in fantasyland, I am not a doormat, I don't have self-esteem issues, I don't tell my dominant "fuck you" in any way shape or form.

My dominant is a sane, smart, firm but compassionate man who does not ask anything more of me then he knows I can give. He does not give me meaningless tasks to perform. He loves me and I love him.

I am proud to be an obedient owned submissive

No more negativity for me.

 

[Bandit58]

I am happy to report--

I AM submissive enough.

I am not some newbie sub in fantasyland, I am not a doormat, I don't have self-esteem issues, I don't tell my dominant "fuck you" in any way shape or form.

My dominant is a sane, smart, firm but compassionate man who does not ask anything more of me then he knows I can give. He does not give me meaningless tasks to perform. He loves me and I love him.

I am proud to be an obedient owned submissive

No more negativity for me.

http://www.tvaus.com.au/forum/images/smilies/happy0065.gif

 

[ecstaticsub]

Nope.
Congratulations. You're very lucky.

http://www.tvaus.com.au/forum/images/smilies/happy0065.gif

Thank you. It took me long enough to figure out but I feel like the weight of the world has been lifted off of me.

 

[BiBunny]

I apologize to everyone, by the way, for being such a bitter motherfucker. Sadly, this is actually an improvement on how I used to feel, which is why I'm going to let it run its course for the time being.