Not Submissive Anymore: A Spinoff

[FurryFury]

This thread has been interesting. I finally found the time to read it tonight.

*HUGS*

I get it.

FF

 

[Cobalt87]

Not much to add that has not already been said on the main topic, just want to throw an "ouch" on all the "geek" comments.

I'm pretty much the epitome of geekiness. Way overweight, conceptual understanding of modern science up to string theory and branes, Star Trek and Star Wars fan, know how to fence, cook, read comic books and Kafka, amateur photographer, amateur writer. Player of tabletop Role Playing Games and video games. Build sparring LED lightsabers for fun and profit.

My only saving graces are that I've never even owned a velour shirt or pointy ears, and I don't speak with a lisp.

Then again, I've never pretended to be a Dom. Pretty much a "bedroom only" Switch, so for whatever that was worth.

That and if you're in an unhappy place, sorry to read it and hope things are better for you soon!

Hey now, nothing wrong with being a geek, especially since us geeks are taking over the world (I’m a pretty big “geek” myself being a former engineering major turned programmer/finance guy, Star Wars fan, video gamer, etc). Fortunately, I am in good shape though - even with my mostly cookie diet.

Anywho I don’t want to hijack this thread, so I’ll add my 2 cents to the discussion:

Being able to take a good look at yourself and your life in order to admit your faults/problems is a very good thing. It's necessary in order to move forward to a better place in my opinion. This is something far too many people aren’t capable of doing.

Hope everything works out for those of you who are unhappy at the moment.

 

[FurryFury]

Heh, I'm a geek too and I have only married geeks.

 

[graceanne]

Some of my favorite people are geeks. I'm selectively a geek - you don't want to get me started on genealogy.

 

[gypsy*seer]

Geek here, too!

*jumps up & down raising her hand*

Albeit a wicked cool one.....

 

[sacrificedangel]

I cannot thank you enough BiBunny for posting all of this, and I can only offer huggles and cookies to all those who are currently less than happy with their situations at the moment.

Just be you BiBunny, get healthy and happy again and see if this/any of it, still works for you, and if it doesnt...it doesnt. Needs do change, and right now I'd agree with what you said earlier, and this may not be healthy for you currently. But in a year...two...three?

 

[BiBunny]

Hey, everybody.

You may have noticed that I haven't really said a lot in this thread for awhile. That's because I'm kind of embarrassed by it now, the way I made a general question all about me and my problems, and I was going to just let it die. But then I got to thinking that it wasn't very respectful to the people who said such kind things to me and the people who wanted to discuss the actual issue rather than my problems, LOL.

So, um, I just want to say thanks to everyone and apologize, especially to ecstaticsub, for not responding to posts.

I have a mountain of work to do today (as usual), but my intention is to come back soon and talk some more. If that's cool, I mean. I kinda feel like an asshole for ignoring everybody.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Hey BiBunny no problem. Life gets busy. I figured if and when you had more to say you would eventually come back.

 

[Stella_Omega]

BB it's true that your posts are primarily concerned with yourself-- but so what? A lot of people are finding commonalities within the specifics here.

Whatever it takes to get a conversation rolling, sez I.

 

[HottieMama]

BB it's true that your posts are primarily concerned with yourself-- but so what? A lot of people are finding commonalities within the specifics here.

Whatever it takes to get a conversation rolling, sez I.

Bunny... I personally love when you post, because I can relate SO much to you. you say things better than I can at times, and overall just help me feel not like such a "freak."

 

[the_pet]

Mostly, the thing that stops me is that I'm convinced there's no such thing as a healthy D/s relationship for me.

....and this could be your instincts guiding you. I myself have a past that has made D/s relationship a very unhealthy choice for me. I'm sure I engage in several BDSM activities as a form of self-injury/self-destruction much like an addict or someone who cuts. Not pretty....... but I work with what I got and try and avoid shit that's gonna make matters worse.

 

[the captians wench]

Hey, everybody.

You may have noticed that I haven't really said a lot in this thread for awhile. That's because I'm kind of embarrassed by it now, the way I made a general question all about me and my problems, and I was going to just let it die. But then I got to thinking that it wasn't very respectful to the people who said such kind things to me and the people who wanted to discuss the actual issue rather than my problems, LOL.

So, um, I just want to say thanks to everyone and apologize, especially to ecstaticsub, for not responding to posts.

I have a mountain of work to do today (as usual), but my intention is to come back soon and talk some more. If that's cool, I mean. I kinda feel like an asshole for ignoring everybody.

Bunny, I was thinking a bit about you and this thread yesterday.

I've always had a submissive personality, so when I discovered this I went full on service orientation, over the past few months I've kind of felt that service orientation fade, and yesterday I even wondered how submissive I am/want to be any more.

Maybe it's just a mater of not taking things as seriously as I once did. Maybe it's that whole 20 something personality change. Hell it could even be my fucked up hormones. I don't know, but I know I'm questioning what it is I want out of this whole submissive business. I'm questioning a lot of things.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I know I may get jumped on over this but I'm going to say it anyway. When I was in my 20's and even in my early 30's they would have been no way i would have been submissive to any one.

I spent the first 18 years of my life doing what my parents tell me to do. I go off to college and I'm free to an extent but since my parents were paying for 1/2 my tuition I still had to go by their rules until graduation. Then I was truly free!

Well, kinda. In a different sort of way we submit to life's challenges--we have a boss, we have to have a place to live, maybe roommates. After I graduated I had to do a 1 yr residency and I got married a few months later. And as I said previously submitting to the military. But...

For the most part I did what I wanted to do. I interviewed only at hospitals where I wanted to do a residency, i married who I wanted to marry in a none-D/s marriage. I decided I did not want children for at least a decade, I decided where I wanted to live, my social life, where I went on vacation, what I did with my free time.

I had sex with who I wanted the way I wanted it.

I can't imagine, at least for me, my 20's being spent being as submissive as I am now. And really since I don't live with my Dominant there is only so much he cares about controlling anyway.

I guess what I'm saying is being in your 20's and submissive is alot to ask of yourself. There is plenty of time to be submissive later, like when you are in your mid-40's like me.

I know there are people my age who wish they knew of this lifestyle earlier so they could have experienced the joy of submission sooner. Not me. I am grateful for my wild, free, willful time. I am equally grateful for my submission at this time of my life.

I mean no offense whatsoever to those in their 20's who are happily submissive. I'm happy for you. But it is not at all surprising to me that someone in their 20's would get a bit frustrated with being submissive.

 

[the captians wench]

For me, though, being submissive has been apart of who I am long before I knew about the kink of it. I have always had a submissive personality. I'm not feeling that lately. But I'm also not stressing over if I should feel it. I honestly don't give a flying fuck what I "should" be feeling, just what I am and why. And that's why I've been thinking about this, because I'm not sure what has changed.

 

[graceanne]

I guess what I'm saying is being in your 20's and submissive is alot to ask of yourself. There is plenty of time to be submissive later, like when you are in your mid-40's like me.

I know there are people my age who wish they knew of this lifestyle earlier so they could have experienced the joy of submission sooner. Not me. I am grateful for my wild, free, willful time. I am equally grateful for my submission at this time of my life.

I mean no offense whatsoever to those in their 20's who are happily submissive. I'm happy for you. But it is not at all surprising to me that someone in their 20's would get a bit frustrated with being submissive.

QFT..

 

[serijules]

I remember somewhere, years ago, saying that being "a" slave or "a" submissive to me is only something that can be done when a relationship exists that nurtures that position. I don't think of it as a role that is naturally begotten, like "mother" or "human". Those roles exist even if the child or supporting cast member of some sort no longer exists.

For me, submissive/slave/whatever needs those supporting cast members in order to be a healthy, positive thing. I'm no longer with someone who fits into my opposite niche, thus the idea of saying "I'm a slave" makes me go "what the fuck?"

I still have submissive natures and submissive desires. My yang needs a ying to tick though.

I'm not entirely sure this answer makes any freaking sense on this topic since I didn't browse the entire thread. Ah well, I felt like saying it.

 

[graceanne]

I remember somewhere, years ago, saying that being "a" slave or "a" submissive to me is only something that can be done when a relationship exists that nurtures that position. I don't think of it as a role that is naturally begotten, like "mother" or "human". Those roles exist even if the child or supporting cast member of some sort no longer exists.

For me, submissive/slave/whatever needs those supporting cast members in order to be a healthy, positive thing. I'm no longer with someone who fits into my opposite niche, thus the idea of saying "I'm a slave" makes me go "what the fuck?"

I still have submissive natures and submissive desires. My yang needs a ying to tick though.

I'm not entirely sure this answer makes any freaking sense on this topic since I didn't browse the entire thread. Ah well, I felt like saying it.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Netzach]

I'm not "in awe of people who can do this." I just think they're wired differently than I am.

"Every fiber of my being rejects the mere thought of it." Exactly.


Maybe your s-type urges are inherently person-specific, or maybe the urges themselves have just moved on. Either way, don't beat yourself up.

This is pretty good actually.

Reshuffle, figure out your kinks if you have them. Find things that seemed tediously vanilla and re-evaluate them.

 

[Netzach]

(Is it really that common for a pyl to truly believe that their PYL is infallible and all-knowing?)

Always had trouble submitting to authority that demanded respect for simply being "authority"... i.e. teachers. If I felt that I was being disrespected for simply being a student, then I became problematic. But if teachers/professors were willing to keep an open dialogue with us about the curriculum and subject at hand, that showed me that they respected us enough to acknowledge our intelligence, and even entertain the possibility that they might be wrong on something. That's the sort of two-way street I need.

And fortunately, it's what I've got! If he has a preference when it comes to something, I'll usually go with it unless I see that it's seriously flawed... like maybe wanting a super triple chocolate cake with a side of lard for dessert every night. (Yes, I consider making him eat healthily as part of my duty as a partner and s-type.) Fortunately, he's not very picky and I basically get to be left to my own devices about many a thing. And for some things, it's a gentle nudge. Like when I spent the month with him earlier this summer, I wound up making some of his lunches in the morning, even though it required I wake up early and usually go back to sleep when I was done. He'd wake me up to do it, but if I happened to fall back to sleep instead, it was no biggie.

Sometimes I think I crave a 24/7 arrangement, which scares me a little, but most of the time I don't, and am happy with our level of non-bedroom D/s. It usually just involves me deferring to his stated preferences and plans, or expressing it through body language (he very much has the presence of a full time D, funnily enough), and enjoying his bullying and ribbing. He enjoys my challenging his status quo and opinions (sometimes changing them), which is something I cannot even begin to conceive of not being allowed to do. If he told me that 2 and 2 was 5--yes, deliberate 1984 reference--and it was assumed that I was to accept that as truth simply because he was the PYL, I'd laugh and go tell him to fuck himself. Surely no one has demanded something so ludicrous of their partner, but I'm sure someone's come close. And outside of a mindfuck scene, the idea gives me the heebie-geebies.

This is how M and I function. There is no stated "you will obey" outside the bedroom door. There are clashes of interest and there are clashes of stress - but when it comes to what we're going to do, it winds up being my decision and my way most of the time because of how we just point. This works sustainably, for me, as a living situation, in ways that very codified arrangements won't work.

I like a good argument, and I'd be very sad to be deprived of them by status.

 

[BiBunny]

Thank you!


I am in no way deserving of being in awe of. I am struggling with how things are evolving with my relationship. However, I think it is where I want to go.

It seems perhaps that I am going about this in the opposite direction then many people. I never ever thought of myself as submissive. Perverted and sick with my sexual fantasies but never would I ever have thought of obeying someone else, giving someone else control of my life. Especially never a man! lol

I'm still trying to figure this out but I think being a military spouse for 20 years has shown me that letting someone (or some thing) control major parts of my life has a calming effect on me.

Submission is like being a military spouse in that I agreed with my husband that he could/should become an officer. That was a consensual choice. After that for 20 years I moved when I was told to move, I quit jobs, lost friends, made new ones, went through experiences I never thought I would be able to go through. I sometimes asked myself "Why am I putting myself through this pain, I can just walk away".

Those 20 years taught me so much about myself. They taught me priorities. The experience also taught me (maybe reassured me?) that taking a chance at surrendering myself to the will of another power (the military or a man I love) will enable me to learn things about myself. It is extremely empowering to not have power. Because I not only survived but I was a fucking awesome at making things work wonderfully.

That experience taught me that not a whole lot in life really matters except for the relationships you have with the people you love. Material possessions get destroyed in moves, money flies out the window with every new house bought and sold, dignity even takes a back seat when your spouse is deployed and you are alone with your children living in AZ and the A/C breaks in Aug, or alone with babies and a Cat 4 hurricane is approaching. There is simply shit that happens and things that must be done and you do what you need to do.

So that is my background mindset, what does this have to do with a D/s relationship?

Most of the people I know in BDSM relationship were specifically looking for a dom or submissive partner. I wasn't looking for anything or anyone when I met MDS. I was lonely and seriously sexually frustrated with a deployed spouse. We were on-line friends and then phone sex friends to begin with.

Over the course of the last 6 years our relationship has deepened and evolved. Throughout it all we have shared the same values and priorities. I haven't had to set hard limits like no interference with my work, or children, or husband or home. Any limits of that sort I would have set would most likely be less strict then what he would set for me.

So I trust him to not abuse the power I have given him. In exchange he has forced me to see love and relationships in a different way. He has forced me to try things I never would have done. He has forced me to think in a different way to give him exactly what he wants but still manage to not lose myself.

I trust him completely. He is not perfect, he knows he is not perfect. He will listen to me when I have difficulty obeying. With him I feel I have nothing to lose by obeying, even doing the really difficult things. Obeying him will not hurt my relationships with my husband or my children. Everything else doesn’t matter. If me obeying him can make not only his dick hard but make him happy and better at who he is, then there is no reason for me not to. It really is a win-win.

That is at least what I keep telling myself. There is a situation that I am find extremely difficult but I am working on it. I have noticed that as I fight it less the situation does get better. I am hopeful that it continues. I really like the feeling of accomplishment that comes from figuring out ways to obey him and still stay sane.

Not sure if that made any sense…but it helped me to write it out. Thanks for the opportunity.

I am finally getting off my ass and responding to this....

The things you've said here make perfect sense to me. If you know those sorts of boundaries are in place, even if they haven't been codified, so to speak--and have that sort of life experience behind you--then I think it must help a lot. That you can trust him not to abuse his power, doubly so. I think the lack of trust was always my problem.

For example...I think when it really hit home to me that I couldn't do it anymore was last summer. My roommates and I had been given a month and a half to vacate the place we were living because the landlord found someone who was willing to pay more money than we were willing to pay to live there, and our lease had run out. He'd told us we could stay as long as we wanted, but then he reneged, and we were all desperately scrambling to find somewhere to live.

Despite the fact that I knew I couldn't afford it, I started looking for apartments in the city where my exes lived. Male ex wanted me there; female ex was indifferent. I wasn't so sure it would be a good idea, but I went along with it, though I told male ex repeatedly that I didn't think I could pay for a place there, as I was barely making ends meet as it was and most comparable places in their town were at least $200 more per month than in the town where I live.

"Don't worry," he assured me. He said he'd help me find a new place. He told me if my income level wasn't high enough to secure a lease that he would sign for me. (As an independent contractor, I find it's hard to offer proof of income that'll satisfy people.) He said that if I didn't have enough money to pay a deposit, he'd chip in. He promised that when I was ready to move, he'd help me move everything.

By the time they "let" me come stay with them so that I could look for apartments, I had two weeks left to find a place. I stayed at their house for a week and a half, trying desperately to find somewhere to live. Not once did either of them get off their asses to help, despite my asking, then begging because I was scared I was about to be homeless. I went everywhere I could go that was in my price range. Nobody would accept what proof of income that I had. I spent about $700 that I needed to use for a deposit driving up and down the road, buying food to cook for them when they got home from work, etc., etc., etc.

When I had less than a week left, he told me that he couldn't do anything. He couldn't sign the lease or give me money or even offer me a place to stay, but "maybe I could find something." I had five days before I was going to be homeless, and that's what he gave me.

I ran back home and managed to get a place within a couple of days. But when I realized that if I'd continued to trust him and hope that he would get off his sorry ass and help me like he should've that I'd have been homeless, something died in me. I tried to go through the motions after that, but I couldn't do it. I was done. It was gone.

It might've been different had I been with someone trustworthy. But in my heart, I still feel that no matter what, I'd have finally had that epiphany that, no, I can't give everything to this person because nobody knows better than I do about what I need. That's the part that sticks in my craw, I guess.

I have more thoughts, but I think it's bedtime.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I am finally getting off my ass and responding to this....

The things you've said here make perfect sense to me. If you know those sorts of boundaries are in place, even if they haven't been codified, so to speak--and have that sort of life experience behind you--then I think it must help a lot. That you can trust him not to abuse his power, doubly so. I think the lack of trust was always my problem.

For example...I think when it really hit home to me that I couldn't do it anymore was last summer. My roommates and I had been given a month and a half to vacate the place we were living because the landlord found someone who was willing to pay more money than we were willing to pay to live there, and our lease had run out. He'd told us we could stay as long as we wanted, but then he reneged, and we were all desperately scrambling to find somewhere to live.

Despite the fact that I knew I couldn't afford it, I started looking for apartments in the city where my exes lived. Male ex wanted me there; female ex was indifferent. I wasn't so sure it would be a good idea, but I went along with it, though I told male ex repeatedly that I didn't think I could pay for a place there, as I was barely making ends meet as it was and most comparable places in their town were at least $200 more per month than in the town where I live.

"Don't worry," he assured me. He said he'd help me find a new place. He told me if my income level wasn't high enough to secure a lease that he would sign for me. (As an independent contractor, I find it's hard to offer proof of income that'll satisfy people.) He said that if I didn't have enough money to pay a deposit, he'd chip in. He promised that when I was ready to move, he'd help me move everything.

By the time they "let" me come stay with them so that I could look for apartments, I had two weeks left to find a place. I stayed at their house for a week and a half, trying desperately to find somewhere to live. Not once did either of them get off their asses to help, despite my asking, then begging because I was scared I was about to be homeless. I went everywhere I could go that was in my price range. Nobody would accept what proof of income that I had. I spent about $700 that I needed to use for a deposit driving up and down the road, buying food to cook for them when they got home from work, etc., etc., etc.

When I had less than a week left, he told me that he couldn't do anything. He couldn't sign the lease or give me money or even offer me a place to stay, but "maybe I could find something." I had five days before I was going to be homeless, and that's what he gave me.

I ran back home and managed to get a place within a couple of days. But when I realized that if I'd continued to trust him and hope that he would get off his sorry ass and help me like he should've that I'd have been homeless, something died in me. I tried to go through the motions after that, but I couldn't do it. I was done. It was gone.

It might've been different had I been with someone trustworthy. But in my heart, I still feel that no matter what, I'd have finally had that epiphany that, no, I can't give everything to this person because nobody knows better than I do about what I need. That's the part that sticks in my craw, I guess.

I have more thoughts, but I think it's bedtime.

I so wanna punch that guy in the face.

 

[eastern sun]

nobody knows better than I do about what I need.

Yes. This is true. And, I think - though it sucks that you had to learn it that way - he might have given you one of the best lessons you'll ever learn.

And, by the way, that's how I've learned every important lesson in my life - by living through it. That's what I think this life is, bunny. A long, slow process of learning who you are, who other people are, what's true, what's important, and what is just bells and whistles . . . .

You are a very strong woman. Look at what you were able to do for yourself, in difficult circumstances.

I got to a point where I stopped trusting people, because I thought the only thing I could really trust them to do was be "human" with all our flaws and weaknesses. The good outcome of that is that I learned how to trust myself. And discovered I am just as flawed and weak as the rest of them.

Only by knowing myself really well, could I make more accurate assessments of how reliable someone else is.

Maybe we are all looking for the parents we wish we had. The ones who will take care of us, instinctively know our needs and meet them. The ones who will love us even when we throw our temper tantrums and forget that really important thing we were supposed to do.

I don't know. Lately, all I've wanted is my mommy.

What I have instead is a world full of people. All of us enmeshed in this web of support and competition. Support is there when you need it. Often from a source you never expected to receive help from. And that's how you learn who to trust.

Sometimes, it's even you.

 

[BiBunny]

I so wanna punch that guy in the face.

You and me both.

Yes. This is true. And, I think - though it sucks that you had to learn it that way - he might have given you one of the best lessons you'll ever learn.

And, by the way, that's how I've learned every important lesson in my life - by living through it. That's what I think this life is, bunny. A long, slow process of learning who you are, who other people are, what's true, what's important, and what is just bells and whistles . . . .

You are a very strong woman. Look at what you were able to do for yourself, in difficult circumstances.

I got to a point where I stopped trusting people, because I thought the only thing I could really trust them to do was be "human" with all our flaws and weaknesses. The good outcome of that is that I learned how to trust myself. And discovered I am just as flawed and weak as the rest of them.

Only by knowing myself really well, could I make more accurate assessments of how reliable someone else is.

Maybe we are all looking for the parents we wish we had. The ones who will take care of us, instinctively know our needs and meet them. The ones who will love us even when we throw our temper tantrums and forget that really important thing we were supposed to do.

I don't know. Lately, all I've wanted is my mommy.

What I have instead is a world full of people. All of us enmeshed in this web of support and competition. Support is there when you need it. Often from a source you never expected to receive help from. And that's how you learn who to trust.

Sometimes, it's even you.

First of all, thank you for the part in bold. I'm struggling again, and I really needed to hear that.

I feel like I'm at that point now, where I feel I can only trust myself (and only then occasionally). I hope there's something after this because this part is pretty rough.

 

[eastern sun]

First of all, thank you for the part in bold. I'm struggling again, and I really needed to hear that.

I feel like I'm at that point now, where I feel I can only trust myself (and only then occasionally). I hope there's something after this because this part is pretty rough.

It's a long process, learning how to trust both yourself and other people.

But I can tell you, there really is something after "this." That's why you might want to plant the seeds today for the harvest you want to reap tomorrow. And then nurture them for as long as it takes for them to ripen and mature. You don't have to live the way you're living now, if it's not working for you.

This is going to sound a bit paradoxical, but it is possible to get help. Personally, I rarely trusted professionals, but you don't have to do it alone. In fact, I kind of think that's an important part of the process. Finding the people who can really help.

 

[ecstaticsub]

<<snip>>

I ran back home and managed to get a place within a couple of days. But when I realized that if I'd continued to trust him and hope that he would get off his sorry ass and help me like he should've that I'd have been homeless, something died in me. I tried to go through the motions after that, but I couldn't do it. I was done. It was gone.

It might've been different had I been with someone trustworthy. But in my heart, I still feel that no matter what, I'd have finally had that epiphany that, no, I can't give everything to this person because nobody knows better than I do about what I need. That's the part that sticks in my craw, I guess.

I have more thoughts, but I think it's bedtime.

I am in awe of you. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to say "I am done".

As submissives we sacrifice so much to make another person (or persons) happy that finally saying enough is enough seems so difficult.

I am still struggling. I don't know anymore what is the right answer for me.

Maybe I'm not submissive anymore either.