Not Submissive Anymore: A Spinoff

[the captians wench]

I am in awe of you. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to say "I am done".

As submissives we sacrifice so much to make another person (or persons) happy that finally saying enough is enough seems so difficult.

I am still struggling. I don't know anymore what is the right answer for me.

Maybe I'm not submissive anymore either.

This, what Bunny just posted, and what's going on in my own life has me thinking. . .

Do we ever grow out of that "I won't love any one else" phase?

I mean, in these two situations, and even in my own, it's not so much the "being submissive" that seems to be the issue as it is "being submissive with X" that is.

How many times do we see break ups here, and pyls come out and say "I will never have another PYL. EVER! He was the only one. I'll never do that with anyone EVER again!" only to find them with some one else in a few weeks/months/significant time? Maybe it's not about submission at all but more about that "love of my life" feeling?

Then again, that's also weird for those of us who know we have the ability to love more than one person at a time. I often wish I didn't love so completely and so quickly, but I do, and every person that fades out of my life is like a death to me. I morn, I sob, I say I'll never love again, and the whole while I have at least one other who is my whole world.

I know they said love was hard and life confusing, but for fuck sake I had to be one to make it even more so.

 

[BiBunny]

It's a long process, learning how to trust both yourself and other people.

But I can tell you, there really is something after "this." That's why you might want to plant the seeds today for the harvest you want to reap tomorrow. And then nurture them for as long as it takes for them to ripen and mature. You don't have to live the way you're living now, if it's not working for you.

This is going to sound a bit paradoxical, but it is possible to get help. Personally, I rarely trusted professionals, but you don't have to do it alone. In fact, I kind of think that's an important part of the process. Finding the people who can really help.

My problem is that the times I've attempted professional help didn't work out so well. I don't feel very inclined to try again, at least not with therapists.

I feel like that if I've made it this far, I can go farther. I may just need to stop and rest for a little while.

I am in awe of you. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to say "I am done".

As submissives we sacrifice so much to make another person (or persons) happy that finally saying enough is enough seems so difficult.

I am still struggling. I don't know anymore what is the right answer for me.

Maybe I'm not submissive anymore either.

Don't be in awe of me. I had to lose nearly everything to make that decision. I can tell you right now that it's totally not worth it.

For me, when it started feeling exploitative was when I realized I couldn't do it. I was struggling with a lot of things, but I was expected to cater to his (their) whims. I could hardly carry myself, but I was supposed to carry the weight of the entire relationship on my back, so that no one else had to lift a finger. Any complaint from me was deemed unreasonable and blamed on the fact that I was crazy. Nobody ever said to themselves, "Gee, maybe if we'd stop acting like flaming assholes, we wouldn't keep setting off the blind rages that are characteristic of people with her illness." It was my fault that I couldn't control it. I'm not saying that I didn't--don't--have some responsibility, but all the blame didn't rest on my shoulders, either.

When it got to that point, there was nothing to save. The only thing that existed between us was in my heart, and that was it. When you're the only one trying, it's time to go.

It took a long time for me to let go. I still haven't, really. There are too many things that were left unsaid, too many squandered opportunities. What happens next, God only knows. But I'm hardly an exemplar.

I think it's possible to give and give and give until there is, quite literally, nothing else to give. The stores of "giving" are depleted faster when you're receiving nothing in return. That's what happened to me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it happens to others as well.

This, what Bunny just posted, and what's going on in my own life has me thinking. . .

Do we ever grow out of that "I won't love any one else" phase?

I mean, in these two situations, and even in my own, it's not so much the "being submissive" that seems to be the issue as it is "being submissive with X" that is.

How many times do we see break ups here, and pyls come out and say "I will never have another PYL. EVER! He was the only one. I'll never do that with anyone EVER again!" only to find them with some one else in a few weeks/months/significant time? Maybe it's not about submission at all but more about that "love of my life" feeling?

Then again, that's also weird for those of us who know we have the ability to love more than one person at a time. I often wish I didn't love so completely and so quickly, but I do, and every person that fades out of my life is like a death to me. I morn, I sob, I say I'll never love again, and the whole while I have at least one other who is my whole world.

I know they said love was hard and life confusing, but for fuck sake I had to be one to make it even more so.

I must be the opposite of you. I don't fall in love easily. I don't let my guard down. I'm not one of those people you'll see falling in love with someone today and declaring my undying love, then losing him/her tomorrow and swearing I'll never again, then finding someone else to be in love with again the next day.

But when it happens, it's completely. And I never stop. I may love others, but I will never lose the depth of feeling for the ones before, melodramatic as it may sound.

I can't let myself be submissive anymore. And, honestly, my brain is ok with that because anytime anybody approaches me with any of that shit, the automatic "fuck you" comes out. It's no longer healthy for me, so I'll just avoid it.

My heart still aches, but what do you do? You put one foot in front of the other and try not to think about it too much.

 

[eastern sun]

My problem is that the times I've attempted professional help didn't work out so well. I don't feel very inclined to try again, at least not with therapists.

I feel like that if I've made it this far, I can go farther. I may just need to stop and rest for a little while.

Yeah, I've had the same experience. I don't care much for therapists. They bring too many of their own issues into the session. There are a lot of other types of help around though. Me, I got saved by Alcoholics Anonymous. I'm not suggesting that's what you need, just that there are a lot of options.

 

[MissHolly]

My problem is that the times I've attempted professional help didn't work out so well. I don't feel very inclined to try again, at least not with therapists.

I am afraid if I ever admitted what really goes through my mind...it would scare people!

 

[the captians wench]

I must be the opposite of you. I don't fall in love easily. I don't let my guard down. I'm not one of those people you'll see falling in love with someone today and declaring my undying love, then losing him/her tomorrow and swearing I'll never again, then finding someone else to be in love with again the next day.

But when it happens, it's completely. And I never stop. I may love others, but I will never lose the depth of feeling for the ones before, melodramatic as it may sound.

I can't let myself be submissive anymore. And, honestly, my brain is ok with that because anytime anybody approaches me with any of that shit, the automatic "fuck you" comes out. It's no longer healthy for me, so I'll just avoid it.

My heart still aches, but what do you do? You put one foot in front of the other and try not to think about it too much.

Yeah, see I wear my submission on my sleeve. I fall quickly, trust completely, and love wholly. But I might have over stated the "I will never love again" bit. I've only felt that way twice. Once when my marriage broke up, and that was completely I had decided to swear off men entirely and live like a nun. The other time wasn't as dramatic. It was the first time my English friend fell off of the face of the earth. I swore off dating again, but Jounar was around at that point, so I knew I'd have love in my life.

Both times I moped around for a few months, then some one twinkled an eye at me, made me feel pretty, I fucked them stupid, and decided good sex was worth risking a little heart ache over. I have such a one track mind.

I fall in love very quickly, but hide it (I've scared a few off when they realized how attached I became so quickly), but falling out takes a lot longer. I still worry and care about my ex husband, and that's been over longer than the marriage lasted.

 

[minx1]

Don't be in awe of me. I had to lose nearly everything to make that decision. I can tell you right now that it's totally not worth it.

For me, when it started feeling exploitative was when I realized I couldn't do it. I was struggling with a lot of things, but I was expected to cater to his (their) whims. I could hardly carry myself, but I was supposed to carry the weight of the entire relationship on my back, so that no one else had to lift a finger. Any complaint from me was deemed unreasonable and blamed on the fact that I was crazy. Nobody ever said to themselves, "Gee, maybe if we'd stop acting like flaming assholes, we wouldn't keep setting off the blind rages that are characteristic of people with her illness." It was my fault that I couldn't control it. I'm not saying that I didn't--don't--have some responsibility, but all the blame didn't rest on my shoulders, either.

When it got to that point, there was nothing to save. The only thing that existed between us was in my heart, and that was it. When you're the only one trying, it's time to go.

It took a long time for me to let go. I still haven't, really. There are too many things that were left unsaid, too many squandered opportunities. What happens next, God only knows. But I'm hardly an exemplar.

I think it's possible to give and give and give until there is, quite literally, nothing else to give. The stores of "giving" are depleted faster when you're receiving nothing in return. That's what happened to me. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it happens to others as well.

It happened to me. Everything that you have said, I can completely identify with.
I've given and given and given and sacrificed my butt off in the name of D/s; I gave it my all and i dont have anything left. I just dont have the desire anymore. I dont have the patience either. I'm not bitter...it is simply the way it is.

My submission was very individual orientated and unfortunately I chose the wrong individuals. When I consider submission now, I almost have a pavlovian response and unfortunately it's not one that leaves me drooling with desire.

What I dont completely understand is...I've had bad experiences in vanilla relationships, where I've given and received nothing back, but it hasnt put me off pursuing another. I'm not sure why this is different. Maybe there is an element of not having to suffer fools gladly with vanilla and being able to turn round and say fuck that; you are wrong. I dont know, but I welcome the discussion. Thanks.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Reading and pondering


I would be happier if I didn't take submission and love so seriously. I need to chill a little and just enjoy the moments.

 

[CutieMouse]

Reading and pondering


I would be happier if I didn't take submission and love so seriously. I need to chill a little and just enjoy the moments.

Most people would be happier if they didn't take this stuff so seriously, and just enjoyed the moments. (personal opinion)

 

[ecstaticsub]

Most people would be happier if they didn't take this stuff so seriously, and just enjoyed the moments. (personal opinion)

My brain understands that, my instinctual emotional responses are being rather stubborn with that concept.

 

[Stella_Omega]

My brain understands that, my instinctual emotional responses are being rather stubborn with that concept.

Darned primate brain!

I don't know if this helps or not, but if you remember that we are tribal animals-- not her animals, not pack animals-- we have a need to be with each other, but we establish relative status and hierachy along several lines, and very often we seperate that relative status one member of the tribe at a time-- you might be able to start teasing apart which bits are actually intsinct and which are learned behaviors. What you describe is infant behavior. By the time we are adults, we need to be able to forage both for ourselves, and also in cooperation with our intimates.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Darned primate brain!

I don't know if this helps or not, but if you remember that we are tribal animals-- not her animals, not pack animals-- we have a need to be with each other, but we establish relative status and hierachy along several lines, and very often we seperate that relative status one member of the tribe at a time-- you might be able to start teasing apart which bits are actually intsinct and which are learned behaviors. What you describe is infant behavior. By the time we are adults, we need to be able to forage both for ourselves, and also in cooperation with our intimates.

Are you saying I am immature?

I get what you are saying. I am usually pretty good at controlling my emotions. It just lately my stress level with general life has been wicked high. I'll keep quiet and settle out soon. Thanks

 

[Stella_Omega]

It just lately my stress level with general life has been wicked high.

You and 99% of everyone!

Actually, I do think that the economic stresses of our current society are a big reason why so many people are running to D/s-- looking for simple, set rules in some aspect of their lives, at least.

Hell, I want to creep into a cage somewhere and have my meals delivered though the bars by some keeper. I don't want to be responsible for anything anymore.

 

[switchbitch]

You and 99% of everyone!

Actually, I do think that the economic stresses of our current society are a big reason why so many people are running to D/s-- looking for simple, set rules in some aspect of their lives, at least.

Hell, I want to creep into a cage somewhere and have my meals delivered though the bars by some keeper. I don't want to be responsible for anything anymore.

You cannot possibly believe that a D/s relationship follows simple set rules, surely you are being sarcastic. Every D/S relationship is different to every other one as we are all individuals and the choices we make to either dominate or submit and how we achieve that domination or submission require maturity not immaturity. A basic understanding of your own needs and wants is essential, no?
As for using D/s to de-stress, any sexual or social connection can be used for this purpose and is on a daily basis, so focusing the economic situation on the possibility that people are requiring submission or domination to cope with it seems rather ludicrous, but again I guess you were joking.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Excuse me switchbitch, I am reporting what I am seeing. I do not mean to imply that these people will find life to be simpler and better, just that the hope is one reason that brings people to D/s, and the hugely pervasive nature of that hope is why we are seeing such a big movement lately.

I don't believe it, you don't believe it but from what I can tell, thousands of people do believe it.... I wish I could believe it.

personally, I have always preferred sex or BDSm-- physical sensation-- as my de-stresser. Personally, I find relationships to be just as stressful as anything else in my life, so I don't go looking for D/s. I do go looking for a good fuck with some impact play on the side. To me, that's a good and honest simplification...

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

First and foremost, I want to send my warmest and most heartfelt hugs to you lovely women who are sharing your thoughts and experiences here as you find your way through healing wounded hearts and unanswered needs. ((HUUUUUUUUGS))

That said, in my opinion, of all the things mentioned here, suppressing emotions under the guise of attempting to simplify things or to appear less emotional/more in control of oneself is the one thing here that I am reading is the most unhealthy. What we resist persists. Denying emotions exist is as useful as trying to convince yourself your arm doesn't exist. Feelings are just a part of you, what we DO with them is the only real place self control is appropriate. It is important to let these feelings breathe and leave our bodies, and it is our job to find a responsible way to release them. For some, sex can be a great place for this, but sex for some is more an act of devotion which requires a sort of connection which makes the "release" a much more frustrating pursuit.

Embracing your feelings, listening to them closely, and honoring them to try to figure out your real needs is really the best we can do. To accomplish this, you have to really step back and assess what real need is not being met before you can even begin to address it. It may have nothing to do with your significant other or everything to do with them, it may have everything to do with a bad match, or uneven rates of evolution in entirely different directions, or...? It will require a sort of deeper and quiet honesty with yourself to maybe uncover something you haven't been able to see or figure out just yet. For me, it took talking about it out loud to ears that understood me so that they could tell me what they observed and then I also had to be not so resistant to really hearing it. For me my dear friends that cared enough about me to be honest have made all the difference. The answers more often than not really surprised me once I was ready and able to hear them. So don't hesitate to ask those around you that know you well, and just listen.

For (an oversimplified) example, if all you craved 24/7 was to kiss his palm, and you did it 200 times a day and still needed more to the verge of tears, then odds are pretty good it is not the kiss that you are needing because that need was met 200 times and you were left unfulfilled. What part of you needs it? What part of you is trying to be soothed? Maybe it has more to do with WHY you need to kiss him and less about his palm, so listen closely to your heart and mind as you lean in that 89th time and you might be surprised at what you hear. Or maybe you will hear it the 300th time, that is OK too... just keep listening. You will eventually figure it out. If it is that you literally need to do that 301 times a day, then you need to make sure you are with someone with a palm that needs to be kissed 301 times a day so that you can both feel full. If not, then you will know what to do.

Each of us is responsible for this task of meeting our needs as we are the only true advocate to the one primate we are really responsible for. Needing a break is sometimes the highest priority, because when the human animal is tired it needs to rest and recharge. Eventually when satiated, that need will ease and be replaced by the next priority that your primate self will tell you. Then you rinse and repeat until you are able to move out of the state of survival and triage and back to a place that is eased and content for you to thrive in again. It is important to meet this and all subsequent needs that unfold head on. After an injury, healing is a very important need....don't forget to really listen to that one. Healing takes time, so take the time... if you can't do it for you, then do it for who ever is waiting for you in your future. Do whatever it takes to keep going. Listen to your body and heart and give it what it needs so that you can find what you are really looking for and finally claim it... you are worth it.

 

[BiBunny]

First and foremost, I want to send my warmest and most heartfelt hugs to you lovely women who are sharing your thoughts and experiences here as you find your way through healing wounded hearts and unanswered needs. ((HUUUUUUUUGS))

That said, in my opinion, of all the things mentioned here, suppressing emotions under the guise of attempting to simplify things or to appear less emotional/more in control of oneself is the one thing here that I am reading is the most unhealthy. What we resist persists. Denying emotions exist is as useful as trying to convince yourself your arm doesn't exist. Feelings are just a part of you, what we DO with them is the only real place self control is appropriate. It is important to let these feelings breathe and leave our bodies, and it is our job to find a responsible way to release them. For some, sex can be a great place for this, but sex for some is more an act of devotion which requires a sort of connection which makes the "release" a much more frustrating pursuit.

Embracing your feelings, listening to them closely, and honoring them to try to figure out your real needs is really the best we can do. To accomplish this, you have to really step back and assess what real need is not being met before you can even begin to address it. It may have nothing to do with your significant other or everything to do with them, it may have everything to do with a bad match, or uneven rates of evolution in entirely different directions, or...? It will require a sort of deeper and quiet honesty with yourself to maybe uncover something you haven't been able to see or figure out just yet. For me, it took talking about it out loud to ears that understood me so that they could tell me what they observed and then I also had to be not so resistant to really hearing it. For me my dear friends that cared enough about me to be honest have made all the difference. The answers more often than not really surprised me once I was ready and able to hear them. So don't hesitate to ask those around you that know you well, and just listen.

For (an oversimplified) example, if all you craved 24/7 was to kiss his palm, and you did it 200 times a day and still needed more to the verge of tears, then odds are pretty good it is not the kiss that you are needing because that need was met 200 times and you were left unfulfilled. What part of you needs it? What part of you is trying to be soothed? Maybe it has more to do with WHY you need to kiss him and less about his palm, so listen closely to your heart and mind as you lean in that 89th time and you might be surprised at what you hear. Or maybe you will hear it the 300th time, that is OK too... just keep listening. You will eventually figure it out. If it is that you literally need to do that 301 times a day, then you need to make sure you are with someone with a palm that needs to be kissed 301 times a day so that you can both feel full. If not, then you will know what to do.

Each of us is responsible for this task of meeting our needs as we are the only true advocate to the one primate we are really responsible for. Needing a break is sometimes the highest priority, because when the human animal is tired it needs to rest and recharge. Eventually when satiated, that need will ease and be replaced by the next priority that your primate self will tell you. Then you rinse and repeat until you are able to move out of the state of survival and triage and back to a place that is eased and content for you to thrive in again. It is important to meet this and all subsequent needs that unfold head on. After an injury, healing is a very important need....don't forget to really listen to that one. Healing takes time, so take the time... if you can't do it for you, then do it for who ever is waiting for you in your future. Do whatever it takes to keep going. Listen to your body and heart and give it what it needs so that you can find what you are really looking for and finally claim it... you are worth it.

I'm not sure I understand what you're alluding to. What types of feelings are you referring to that are being suppressed?

 

[CutieMouse]

What I dont completely understand is...I've had bad experiences in vanilla relationships, where I've given and received nothing back, but it hasnt put me off pursuing another. I'm not sure why this is different. Maybe there is an element of not having to suffer fools gladly with vanilla and being able to turn round and say fuck that; you are wrong. I dont know, but I welcome the discussion. Thanks.

Is it wrong of me that I read this and thought "Why on earth wouldn't you be able to turn around and say 'fuck that; you are wrong' just because it's a 'D/s' relationship?"

Not that I'd know anyone, personally, who's done anything like that or anything. [ahem]

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm thinking minx suffered some fool to excess because he called himself a "dom."



Don't be doing that shit, ladies!

 

[BiBunny]

Is it wrong of me that I read this and thought "Why on earth wouldn't you be able to turn around and say 'fuck that; you are wrong' just because it's a 'D/s' relationship?"

Not that I'd know anyone, personally, who's done anything like that or anything. [ahem]

Because you can't question the judgment of the Second Coming of Christ, duh.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Because you can't question the judgment of the Second Coming of Christ, duh.

I am impressed that there is a second coming involved in general, though.

 

[CutieMouse]

Because you can't question the judgment of the Second Coming of Christ, duh.

It's funny... A client came in this afternoon, I got her top off, noticed very small ink pen writing on her torso, thought "huh... Somebody was told to mark themselves this morning..." and went on with the fit. Three minutes later she blurted out that she was a submissive. I was like "High five chicka; me too! But *I* run my dressing room." lol

She said she was very new to it, we chit chatted, etc, and I kept thinkng "god I'm glad I don't do/put up with/bother with XYZ." She seemed happy and all, but I have too much everyday life stuff to juggle right now to do anything other than what I do - which means no titles, no protocols, no costumes, no props. I take care of them in ways that are mutually beneficial; they take care of me in ways that are mutually benificial. If somebody wantssomething, theysay so, and things look boringly "vanilla" (still hate that term) to 99.99% of the world around us.

 

[BiBunny]

I am impressed that there is a second coming involved in general, though.

*Snicker*

It's funny... A client came in this afternoon, I got her top off, noticed very small ink pen writing on her torso, thought "huh... Somebody was told to mark themselves this morning..." and went on with the fit. Three minutes later she blurted out that she was a submissive. I was like "High five chicka; me too! But *I* run my dressing room." lol

She said she was very new to it, we chit chatted, etc, and I kept thinkng "god I'm glad I don't do/put up with/bother with XYZ." She seemed happy and all, but I have too much everyday life stuff to juggle right now to do anything other than what I do - which means no titles, no protocols, no costumes, no props. I take care of them in ways that are mutually beneficial; they take care of me in ways that are mutually benificial. If somebody wantssomething, theysay so, and things look boringly "vanilla" (still hate that term) to 99.99% of the world around us.

I'm to the point where I feel that way, too. I was never super into that stuff, anyway, but now? No, thank you.

I was talking to my friend the other day (she comes here sometimes under the name chaoticDeviance), and we were talking about "doms" and their giving instructions. I looked at her and said, "You know what I'd have to tell him about his 'instructions'?"

In one voice, we said together, "You can take your 'instructions,' and you can shove them up your ass!"

So I think a lot of us are feeling this way nowadays.

 

[eastern sun]

I'm noticing that a lot of people have joined the ranks of online or long-distance submissives. There are a lot of instructions in that kind of relationship, because that's what the relationship is primarily. Instructions, tasks, documentation, etc.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I'm noticing that a lot of people have joined the ranks of online or long-distance submissives. There are a lot of instructions in that kind of relationship, because that's what the relationship is primarily. Instructions, tasks, documentation, etc.

Not necessarily. My relationship is primarily friendship. I do other things for him to make his life easier, which is what I would do if we weren't long distance.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Is it wrong of me that I read this and thought "Why on earth wouldn't you be able to turn around and say 'fuck that; you are wrong' just because it's a 'D/s' relationship?"

Not that I'd know anyone, personally, who's done anything like that or anything. [ahem]

I would never say "fuck you" to my dominant. Even when he is wrong. I wouldn't say it to my vanilla husband either. It is disrespectful in both cases. I also would not tolerate either of them saying the same to me.

It is not that I think my dominant is the second coming or that he is better then me in any way, but I agreed to always show respect for our roles when I speak to him. But I tend to be respectful no matter whom I speak to. There certainly are better ways to show dissatisfaction for a request or change in status then "Fuck you".