"Oh sure..I'm into BDSM. What's BDSM?"

[cymbidia]

My take on it is that slave is a word that describes a person in relation to another, while submissive describes an inherent quality in the person themselves. A submissive who does not have a dominant is still a submissive, but there is no such thing as an unowned slave.

YES! Yes yes yes yes!
Succint and articulate, James, and a perfect -PERFECT- description of where the line lies for me, too.

I can't even think of any words to add to this, James, a stunningly rare occurance for me as those who've known me even a short time can probably attest.

Can i steal this and use it over and over and over?

 

[cymbidia]

I guess "No, No!" or "Stop!" is inappropriate when deep in a scene and there has to be a last ditch mercy trigger. Why don't the stories ever give a specific word? What signal could be noticable if the bottom is bound unable to move and gagged? A toe wiggle??

I'm thinking each partnership has its own code but so far I havn't seen anyone hint at what their own may be.. Why the secrecy of the mercy trigger?

Slow down and stop words are unique to each pairing, Firesprite, as cellis said. Additionally, a bunch of the people writing BDSM stories don't appear to have much real life knowledge of BDSM relationships and so cannot include specific details. (You've hit a nerve in me with this one. I detest nillas writing about us. They give bad or inaccurate info and many of their stories are just romance things all dressed up in fetish clothing. They don't give an honest portrayal of the depth and incredible richness of our emotional nonds to each other, substituting a bunch of crappy moaning while the flogger is being used for real honesty and relationship-building.)(Okay... i'll calm down now... i promise...)

Ahem.
Red (STOP!!!), Yellow (Slow down please please please), and that middle finger salute (for those gagged occasions) are the closest we have to anything approximating a universal set of stop/slow words/gestures. However, if you words and gestures are yours. Use whatever you and your Dom/me agree on.

A note of caution:
If you have to worry about using a stop word, maybe you shouldn't be playing with that person in that way in the first place.

In other words, my little chickadee, BDSM sex is a thing of trust and respect. Those qualities have to be present and flowing strongly between both parties for this to work. If you don't trust your Dom/me not to hurt you (in a bad way ~s~) then why are you doing what you're doing with them? If you don't think your Dom/me will respect your limits, why the fuck are you letting yourself be bound and gaged by them?

Stop/slow words and gestures are wonderful psychological insurance, especially for people who are new to each other. In actuality, they are used so rarely between comitted-to-each-other, loving partners that their existence is only a dim smudge of possibility on the brightly shining reality of what is.

There's no secrecy, Firesprite, and those whip-me-beat-me-make-me-cum-oh-yes-my-Master-harder-harder-harder stories will rot your mind. Read some stories by real BDSM'ers or write a few of your own.

 

[Lain]

re: safewords

As I've mentioned before, I'm new to all this and I have a fear of hurting my submissive lover. Giving him a safeword made me feel much better about having him all tied up so he couldn't physically stop me from doing something he didn't want me to do. We still use words like "ouch" or "stop" to indicate when a particular activity should be stopped or lessened in intensity (we haven't gotten into the roleplaying stuff yet where such words might be legitimately used as something other than a request for letting up). But if he says "red" that means everything stops, I undo all the restraints and we go back to being cuddly boyfriend/girlfriend.

Lain

 

[James Blandings]

My one concern about safewords is that they can not be used as a crutch. A dominant must not go about having their fun, flailing away or what have you, and just assume that they will hear a safeword if they go too far.
Some subs may get so far off into lala land that they couldn't articulate a safeword if you took a hacksaw to them. It is the responsibilty of the dominant to read the subs body language, monitor their breathing , etc. in order to ensure safe play. Never assume that the safeword is a fool proof device.

 

[James Blandings]

YES! Yes yes yes yes!
Succint and articulate, James, and a perfect -PERFECT- description of where the line lies for me, too.

I can't even think of any words to add to this, James, a stunningly rare occurance for me as those who've known me even a short time can probably attest.

Can i steal this and use it over and over and over?

Of course! I love having my words used almost as much as I love being used myself

 

[Firesprite]

Thanks

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your comments.

It was just something that kinda made me curious in my net travels, and I never could seem to find the right place to ask without looking like a complete looser

I am very interested in aspects of bondage, I just havn't found the right person to share my interest with. Ahh well, I have the rest of my life in front of me


You're all wonderful, don't stop being you.

- Enlightened Bystander

 

[SpectreT]

My one concern about safewords is that they can not be used as a crutch. A dominant must not go about having their fun, flailing away or what have you, and just assume that they will hear a safeword if they go too far.
Some subs may get so far off into lala land that they couldn't articulate a safeword if you took a hacksaw to them. It is the responsibilty of the dominant to read the subs body language, monitor their breathing , etc. in order to ensure safe play. Never assume that the safeword is a fool proof device.

GodDAMN, James. You are just full of good advice, and well presented as well. I salute your skill at communication!

 

[James Blandings]

GodDAMN, James. You are just full of good advice, and well presented as well. I salute your skill at communication!

Thank you very much SpectreT. My feeling is, people took the time and effort to teach me, it is only right that I help pass the knowledge on. I am very pleased if anything I can say helps or enlightens people.

 

[Lain]

My one concern about safewords is that they can not be used as a crutch. A dominant must not go about having their fun, flailing away or what have you, and just assume that they will hear a safeword if they go too far.
Some subs may get so far off into lala land that they couldn't articulate a safeword if you took a hacksaw to them. It is the responsibilty of the dominant to read the subs body language, monitor their breathing , etc. in order to ensure safe play. Never assume that the safeword is a fool proof device.

Of course the goal is to not have your sub ever use the safeword, since that means the scene has to stop and where's the fun in that?

Good point about the sub not being able to say the safeword for any reason -- I wouldn't be inclined to let things get that intense at this stage, anyway, but it's definitely something to be aware of.

Lain

(30 posts! I'm not a virgin anymore!)

 

[KillerMuffin]

Why don't those stories ever give a specific word?

I can answer that, I think, better than most people here. *sticking chest out* Go with me on this one guys. It's a question about writing. You can poke sticks in my ego later when I can't see it so I don't start whining.

This is quite simple and has everything to do with story construction.

If the characters are already in a relationship they generally don't bring up the safe signal because they already know what it is. If the characters are new to each other or just testing the relationship then they will discuss this aspect because that's what two people entering into this kind of relationship do. They may or may not give a safe-word depending on the author's bent.

Usually, though, you'll find that the safe-word is given lip-service simply to satisfy the non-BDSMers who read BDSM stories. It gives that pseudo-feel of legitimacy because it is a distanct signal to the reader that everything is consensual and everything is above board. A story with a safe word mentioned has been sanitized. In most of the BDSM stories that I've read the mention of the safe-word is completely extraneous and doesn't belong in the story. It does nothing to further the plot, nothing to develop characters. It is, in fact, just a nod to the sensibilities of the mainstream reader poking for the fetish.

Most BDSMers in real life don't think about their safe-words. They may brush a thought or two that way, but unless they're doing original negotiations or they are near their limit, they aren't thinking the safe-word at all. They are thinking about what they are doing at that moment. They are concerned with the "scene" and their partners. They're concerned with sex and orgasm or if their butt looks big. When they're involved with their play they are thinking the same way that non-BDSMers are thinking whey they are engaged in their play. They're thinking about the sex, not the way out of it.

In my opinion as an editor, the safe-word doesn't belong in a story unless it advances the plot or develops the characters. There is no need for that false comfort of legitimizing what might seem to be rape otherwise by presenting indisputable proof of consent. BDSM is not rape and its practitioners are, in general, consensual about the whole business and concerned with the safety of those involved. the Safe-Word Legitimization gig is unnecessary and usually disrupts the flow of the story.

Incidentally, I do have a BDSM story in the lists. It makes no mention of a safe-word. Why not? The characters didn't have reason to bring it up.

 

[cymbidia]

And that, my friends, is Muff, my friend and one nilla who understands us at least as well as some of us understand us.

Her BDSM stories are legitimate. Her insights and characterizations are correct, and she writes like no one else on this whole, site, too, except for our own RisiaSkye.

Go read a few of her stories, and vote, too.
Always vote.

 

[Firesprite]

Heh, thats a bloody good point Muffin. Didn't look at it that way before.. When I'm with a guy, the LAST thing I want him to do is stop!
Heck, I feel like a right idiot now...


- An idiot among friends

 

[MissTaken]

Hey, all!

Look what I found!

 

[Lancecastor]

Hey, all!

Look what I found!

I think it's interesting to see how many people from the GB used to post on BDSM topics. I'm guessing that the focus here became quite narrow sometime in early 2002 and I happened along just at what now appears in retrospect to be perhaps the most closed point of its evolution.

That being said, I hope that the more recent openess here will encourage others, old and new to participate freely...because it's a topic more people are interested in than they generally let on.

Doors that are wide open are the most welcoming I think.

Lance

 

[Ebonyfire]

I think it's interesting to see how many people from the GB used to post on BDSM topics. I'm guessing that the focus here became quite narrow sometime in early 2002 and I happened along just at what now appears in retrospect to be perhaps the most closed point of its evolution.

That being said, I hope that the more recent openess here will encourage others, old and new to participate freely...because it's a topic more people are interested in than they generally let on.

Doors that are wide open are the most welcoming I think.

Lance

Should we charge admission? My pension plan has died.