Police are people, too

[KoPilot]

 

[KoPilot]

An """officer-involved shooting""". Wow, what a confusing way to say "person killed by cop". I'm sure being confusing wasn't intentional.

And huh, Oxnard police dept... where do I remember hearing about them before?

Ah, yes here it is: Whistleblower Cop: Fellow Officers Getting “Gang Tattoos” To Celebrate Their Shooting Victims

 

[KoPilot]

3 members of Florida Department of Corrections found to be in KKK; arrested for murder plot | Daily Kos

 

[desertslave]

An """officer-involved shooting""". Wow, what a confusing way to say "person killed by cop". I'm sure being confusing wasn't intentional.

Since this only happened yesterday, I would be inclined to wait for more information before making a full judgement. Domestic violence calls have been repeatedly documented as being incredibly dangerous for the responding officers. If I was a cop dealing with an unknown situation where a person (regardless of gender) was coming at me with a knife in close proximity (the article doesn't say how close she was, but 20 seconds implies it to me) I would likely shoot first, too. I think most officers in 'fight or flight' unconsciously put going home to their own family somewhere up in the front of the priority line.

 

[subwannabe]

People are such idiots. Why don't we just solve the problem by getting rid of police departments and let everyone live like the Wild West? I get so sick and tired of criminals and thugs complaining about excessive police force. Did it ever occur to them not to live a life of crime in the first place? Did it ever occur to them to not resist arrest? As with anything in life the police departments have bad apples just like every other employer and we need to do what we can about that but the easiest solution to the timeline problem is not to be a criminal or resist arrest in the first place. There are pretty close to zero cases of excessive police force being used on someone who is totally innocent, and yes I realize that some idiot somewhere will drag up a couple of examples in an attempt to prove otherwise.

 

[KoPilot]

People are such idiots. Why don't we just solve the problem by getting rid of police departments and let everyone live like the Wild West?

The "Wild West" did have law enforcement, you moron. Or does "sheriff" mean nothing to you?

I am 100% OK with people getting shot, raped, and tortured at black sites even if they've broken the tiniest, stupidest law. I am OK with this because I don't ever have to worry about myself or my loved ones getting brutalized or murdered by police for basically nothing. If they did, I would probably freak out too, but because this is something that will always, in my mind, happen to "someone else", I can continue to be an arrogant prick about it.

Well, so long as we're clear about that.

 

[Primalex]

People are such idiots. Why don't we just solve the problem by getting rid of police departments and let everyone live like the Wild West? I get so sick and tired of criminals and thugs complaining about excessive police force.

Okay.... the six journalists that were arrested in Ferguson for no reason, are they the criminals or are they the thugs you talk about?

 

[KoPilot]

Since this only happened yesterday, I would be inclined to wait for more information before making a full judgement. Domestic violence calls have been repeatedly documented as being incredibly dangerous for the responding officers. If I was a cop dealing with an unknown situation where a person (regardless of gender) was coming at me with a knife in close proximity (the article doesn't say how close she was, but 20 seconds implies it to me) I would likely shoot first, too. I think most officers in 'fight or flight' unconsciously put going home to their own family somewhere up in the front of the priority line.

The odds of being killed with a knife, let's say a single stab wound (because the other responding officer would have definitely shot her dead in the time it took for her to try and stab again), are actually really slim unless your aim is impeccable.

In a situation like that, you could be holding anything that would conveniently be labelled a weapon, and therefore you, a deadly aggressor.

I'm painting a broad, fucked up picture here. If a police officer hasn't been hurt, then they don't have the right to kill. End of. Their life is not worth more than someone else's.

 

[KoPilot]

Good thing these thugs probably deserved it.

 

[desertslave]

Twitter as a reliable source? Sorry, no.

 

[Bramblethorn]

People are such idiots. Why don't we just solve the problem by getting rid of police departments and let everyone live like the Wild West? I get so sick and tired of criminals and thugs complaining about excessive police force.

And we know they're all criminals and thugs, because the police told us so!

There are pretty close to zero cases of excessive police force being used on someone who is totally innocent,

Those thugs sure start thugging early. This one was 18 months old: http://abcnews.go.com/US/family-toddler-injured-swat-grenade-faces-1m-medical/story?id=27671521

and yes I realize that some idiot somewhere will drag up a couple of examples in an attempt to prove otherwise.

Out of curiosity, what sort of evidence would you accept?

Related question: if police really are unjustly accused of brutality, why are they so often opposed to the presence of journalists and body-cams that would prove their innocence? It's almost like they don't want a reliable source of evidence on these incidents.

 

[KoPilot]

Twitter as a reliable source? Sorry, no.

Its anecdote. Either you trust people's lived experiences or you don't. Would you do the same to a rape or burglary victim? I doubt it.

 

[KoPilot]

Its fubny-- like, I post an entire page of news articles pertaining to police brutality and corruption, which nobody responds to. But as soon as I post something even remotely debatable, suddenly it's like "AHA! THATS NOT REAL". Fuck your game of " gotcha". Such horseshit. Either you're capable and willing to have an honest debate about this or, as one of my favorite authors wrote, "lies and manipulations are a resort of those who have lost an argument but don't have the decency to admit it."

 

[IrisAlthea]

Since this only happened yesterday, I would be inclined to wait for more information before making a full judgement. Domestic violence calls have been repeatedly documented as being incredibly dangerous for the responding officers. If I was a cop dealing with an unknown situation where a person (regardless of gender) was coming at me with a knife in close proximity (the article doesn't say how close she was, but 20 seconds implies it to me) I would likely shoot first, too. I think most officers in 'fight or flight' unconsciously put going home to their own family somewhere up in the front of the priority line.

This is why the whole premise of the thread is wrong.
The police are not supposed to just be people too, in a case like this and they are not supposed to react like you and me.

The reason they are given power that the rest of us don't get, the reason we pay them and the reason to call them instead of handling the domestic violence ourselves or calling Billy Bob Badasss who we went to school with, is that they are supposed to react like trained professionals.

 

[desertslave]

Its anecdote. Either you trust people's lived experiences or you don't. Would you do the same to a rape or burglary victim? I doubt it.

It's NOT people's 'lives experiences' it's random words on Twitter. Anyone can post anything. And yes, if it was on Twitter, I would question a rape or burglary, too, for the very same reason. I dumped Twitter after 2 months for that very reason. The troll to reality ratio seems to be extraordinarily high.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It's NOT people's 'lives experiences' it's random words on Twitter. Anyone can post anything. And yes, if it was on Twitter, I would question a rape or burglary, too, for the very same reason. I dumped Twitter after 2 months for that very reason. The troll to reality ratio seems to be extraordinarily high.

I'll ask the same question I asked subwannabe, rephrased a little:

Supposing there was a systematic problem with police victimising black folk - what sort of evidence would you expect to see? What would anybody be able to show you to convince you that there WAS a problem?

Because it's not like Twitter is the only evidence available. We've all heard about the Chicago police torture revelations, right?

 

[KoPilot]

It's NOT people's 'lives experiences' it's random words on Twitter. Anyone can post anything. And yes, if it was on Twitter, I would question a rape or burglary, too, for the very same reason. I dumped Twitter after 2 months for that very reason. The troll to reality ratio seems to be extraordinarily high.

Okay, and suddenly this negates all the rest of the concrete, "properly" documented evidence? Once again, this is no more than a meaningless "gotcha".

 

[desertslave]

Okay, and suddenly this negates all the rest of the concrete, "properly" documented evidence? Once again, this is no more than a meaningless "gotcha".

That's exactly what I thought about your Twitter reposts.

I'm a skeptic, in certain situations, borne of personal experiences. I've seen honest, working class neighborhoods where I worked or grew up turned into run-down "redevelopment authority" slums, where neighbors stole from and abused neighbors and destroyed the homes that they were given. I've been attempted-mugged twice, once by a black girl and once by a black guy. I've witnessed two attempted pickpocketings by black or hispanic teen-ish boys. I've also seen the police go after someone simply because of proximity to a crime, and spoken out to the nearest officer, telling him he was cuffing the wrong guy and the proper target was dressed differently half a block away (and white).

I also went to a snotty college-prep private high school with several sons and daughters of prominent black families, several of whom were good friends. I'll admit I assess and judge people with whom I come into contact. When I know nothing else, I judge them by their presented behaviors. Act like a decent human being, that's how I call it until convinced otherwise. Act like a thug, that's what I'll conclude. That's regardless of skin color.

And I've been stopped, myself, for a wrong place/wrong time incident and had a gun pulled on me because I was naive and didn't realize that reaching into my glove box would scare them. I've had three cop-acquaintances. One was a screaming asshole (and black/Asian) and the other two were white and overall good guys. One of whom was killed on 9/11.

All of which is to say do not presume to sit in judgment over me simply because I disagree with your conclusions. We all have different experiences, different lives, different knowledge. A quip on Twitter doesn't validate a goddamn thing.

 

[subwannabe]

Certain liberal idiots are just anti-police and there's no changing their mind. Most law abiding people are not anti-police but the thugs and criminals and other lawbreakers always want to talk about their rights.

It actually shows their character when someone uses the quote post feature to quote one of my posts and then turns around and changes every single word I posted into something completely different to try to prove their point. It also shows how weak their case is when they basically say the word of law enforcement should be totally ignored but tweets from Twitter should be accepted as Gospel.

 

[1sickbastard]

Police are people too.
But you know how crappy people can be.
Give someone a gun and the authority to use disproportionate, even lethal force to any perceived threat, particularly with little oversight and few serious consequences and it will rarely work out well.

 

[Netzach]

Twitter may not be the most reliable thing we've got going, but excuse me, Brian Williams.

I'll believe these people until I have reason NOT to.

 

[Netzach]

Police are people too.
But you know how crappy people can be.
Give someone a gun and the authority to use disproportionate, even lethal force to any perceived threat, particularly with little oversight and few serious consequences and it will rarely work out well.

More or less. Unless you actually have checks that work, that's the way this is supposed to actually work, and that's what's not working.

 

[Netzach]

That's exactly what I thought about your Twitter reposts.

I'm a skeptic, in certain situations, borne of personal experiences. I've seen honest, working class neighborhoods where I worked or grew up turned into run-down "redevelopment authority" slums, where neighbors stole from and abused neighbors and destroyed the homes that they were given. I've been attempted-mugged twice, once by a black girl and once by a black guy. I've witnessed two attempted pickpocketings by black or hispanic teen-ish boys. I've also seen the police go after someone simply because of proximity to a crime, and spoken out to the nearest officer, telling him he was cuffing the wrong guy and the proper target was dressed differently half a block away (and white).

I also went to a snotty college-prep private high school with several sons and daughters of prominent black families, several of whom were good friends. I'll admit I assess and judge people with whom I come into contact. When I know nothing else, I judge them by their presented behaviors. Act like a decent human being, that's how I call it until convinced otherwise. Act like a thug, that's what I'll conclude. That's regardless of skin color.

And I've been stopped, myself, for a wrong place/wrong time incident and had a gun pulled on me because I was naive and didn't realize that reaching into my glove box would scare them. I've had three cop-acquaintances. One was a screaming asshole (and black/Asian) and the other two were white and overall good guys. One of whom was killed on 9/11.

All of which is to say do not presume to sit in judgment over me simply because I disagree with your conclusions. We all have different experiences, different lives, different knowledge. A quip on Twitter doesn't validate a goddamn thing.

This post is to be believed, but if you put it in a chain of 140 character twitter posts, it's not? Or are you a different keyboard using entity than a young black person on twitter somehow? Am I? Is anyone here?

I decided I'd try believing rather than not believing black people talking about their own lives when I have the opportunity to listen. Also, if you've ever gone shopping with those black friends we all have, and failed to notice anything different about your experience you're shockingly oblivious. It's just the tip of the iceberg, but seriously, white ppl, come on. Stop doing mental three card monte shit to remember to the one time mall cops looked at you funny so you can blame it on someone having his male menopause that one day instead of seeing how your friend (your supposed FRIEND) has to navigate this shitty world.

 

[Netzach]

This is why the whole premise of the thread is wrong.
The police are not supposed to just be people too, in a case like this and they are not supposed to react like you and me.

The reason they are given power that the rest of us don't get, the reason we pay them and the reason to call them instead of handling the domestic violence ourselves or calling Billy Bob Badasss who we went to school with, is that they are supposed to react like trained professionals.

This. It's just this simple. Also "came at with knife" is usually report for "had knife in hand, shit hit the fan before we could adequately figure out why."

 

[Netzach]

Most law abiding people are not anti-police but the thugs and criminals and other lawbreakers always want to talk about their rights.

Seriously?

Seriously?