Preferred Forms of Punishment

[cliffchuff]

As a newbie amongst you

I would like to say that cutting off contact as a punishment for me would depend on it being done with a clear and conscious intent, Not to run away from a situation or out of anger.

What it comes down to is I guess (for me) what is punishment?

Why have they miss behaved and in what context?

If someone breaks a pre established rule of behavior there is usually a reason for it. Be it un expressed anger/resentment over something completely unrelated, Stupidity(forgetfulness) or malice. All of which deserve a different response. To withhold a spanking/conversation/touch could be appropriate or it could be abusive.

To remain in a relationship where someone is disobedient and to fall into the trap of role playing an abusive relationship is surely counter to the whole ethos of 'Consensual aware play'?
Although God only knows just because you are kinky doesn't mean you're not fucked up

Could we get more specific here?

 

[lovetoread]

Re: As a newbie amongst you

Not to run away from a situation or out of anger

Anger is not reason enough to punish,especially if there was not any bounderies put up.

How does one know if you passed that line if that line is not drawn?

I am all for punishment when warranted,anything else is just not right.

And quite frankly its getting to be too much for me.

This is of course my opinion.

 

[cliffchuff]

Re: Re: As a newbie amongst you

How does one know if you passed that line if that line is not drawn?

Surely the testing of boundaries is where all the real fun happens/

And quite frankly its getting to be too much for me.

As I said i am New here whats getting to be too much? Is someone repeatedly pushing you where you don't want to be pushed?

 

[lovetoread]

Re: Re: Re: As a newbie amongst you

Surely the testing of boundaries is where all the real fun happens/


As I said i am New here whats getting to be too much? Is someone repeatedly pushing you where you don't want to be pushed?

Ahh but sometimes there isnt any fun afterwards.

And the other is just my whining,but thanks for noticing it.

 

[serijules]

Re: As a newbie amongst you

I would like to say that cutting off contact as a punishment for me would depend on it being done with a clear and conscious intent, Not to run away from a situation or out of anger.

I have to agree with this. In some of my relationships (and note that I have no formal relationships, just play-partners and friends that I play with/submit to when we are together) my partners use corner time as a means of punishment. I have some issues with it since I am not comfortable with anything in which I cannot see what is going on around me, but I do have a few partners that I trust enough to use this as a method of punishment. Normally, I would agree that cutting off communication is cruel and a blow to the self esteem, but I think the key is the intent with which it was done and the consent of it.

If I start getting mouthy, or disobey him/her, I know that the result may be corner time. I hate it and it really is a punishment because it is so dang BORING and rather humiliating to be treated like a child, but in that time I get a re-grip on my anger and have a chance to realize why my behavior was not productive or pleasing. I choose to behave how I did knowing the results. Usually the time out is followed up by a hard spanking and a lecture, so having to 'wait' knowing that is coming in a punishment too, even if the actual spanking isn't. It's the lecture, the knowing I dissapointed, the time out to think about how my behavior made him feel, etc.

However, if he were to make me stand in the corner for a reason that wasn't beneficial to the misdeed, (such as disagreeing with him calmly, him just wanting to get away from the situation so using his control to do so, refusing to do something I really had issues with and wanted to talk about first, etc) then I would feel very abandoned, abused and upset. If I lose my temper and shout, or throw something (err, never done that, but for the sake of convo), or flat out disobey him with no clear reason....then yes, I agree that my behavior would warrent that 'cutting of communication' for a time until I can discuss things with him in an appropriate manner.

It depends on the people, the intent, and the consent. If someone feels abandoned and hurt no matter what the reason for the cut, then yes, that is abusive. If both partners understand the intent and consent behind it, then it can be a very effective form of punishment. It works for me with certain people, and if something was going on that made me feel hurt and abandoned, I certainly wouldn't continue to consent to it.

My relationships vary, some have no aspect of BDSM in them other than spanking, some are much 'heavier', so I understand that this may not work in all relationships since in some the behavior wouldn't be tolerated at ALL, like Eb mentioned.

I may feel very different if I was in a S/M, 24/7 relationship...but I just share my opinion based on what I know.

 

[lost]

I know this is slightly OT, butwhen I was w/ my husband he punished often, i still don't know why for most of them. He used various things, but the one I think that almost drove me literally over the edge of sanity was the silent treatment. In my currecnt state of recovery, the silent treatment as a punishment for me would probably be very dangeruos.
FYI- the relationship w/ my "hubby" was not in the lifestyle

 

[cellis]

I have read this entire thread and have many thoughts about the idea of punishment.

First of all I have never been punished by Himself. It is just something that is not necessary in our relationship. I don't act out. I have gotten upset on a rare occassion and he has listened to me and then told me how it will be. That is not to say that I have no say in the matter... I always have a choice.

Only once did I question him about something and he let me know how much that displeased him and there was discipline involved. It was not physical. He just talked to me. (Of course I was naked on my knees while he talked.)

That being the case, we are both emotional people, me more so than him. When I am upset over something, he simply is quiet and then when I have run the course (because he knows I have to get it out) he will then talk to me in a rational manner.

Never has he cut communications with me.

That being said, I would never second guess any Dom/me's discipline of their sub or slave. It is your position as a Dom/me to know what that person needs from you.

It is different when you are in different states than when you are in the same city just across town. I never had an online relationship and I don't know how that would work.

It does seem to me that if a time out is needed by either party then that should surely be an option.

On the question of whether cutting communication is abuse... one needs to look at the issues of the parties involved and the motive for the behavior. To me unacceptable behavior in an adult or a child is just that.... unacceptable and not to be tolerated. Otherwise in some cases you get into manipulation and there goes the dynamics of power exchange.

I have found in my oh so limited experience that consistancy and boundaries are things that most subs need from their Dom/mes. They need to know what their expectations are. They need to know where the boundaries are. They need to feel loved and protected. All of this comes about with communication and consistancy.

I think Eb said it... her subs know what is expected of them and if they misbehave she doesn't punish them.... she gets rid of them.

While that is a little extreme for relationships where the heart is concerned, the point I am trying to make is once again that unacceptable behavior is not accepted.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by cellis
Only once did I question him about something and he let me know how much that displeased him and there was discipline involved. It was not physical. He just talked to me. (Of course I was naked on my knees while he talked.)

Cellis, now that I am embarking on a 24/7 Mistress/slave relationship, my actions are not the same as they are for my part-time boys.

First of all, dismissal is not an option for proud. We have a commitment for a certain time period with an expectation of lifetime. So I am apt to use the response(s) you so eloquently described above.

That being the case, we are both emotional people, me more so than him. When I am upset over something, he simply is quiet and then when I have run the course (because he knows I have to get it out) he will then talk to me in a rational manner.

This statement appeals to me also. I am emotional, and I would have to step back and listen, then think about things before taking action.

For one thing, I would have to analyze if proud's misbehaviour was the result of my failure to give clear directions, and consistent guidance.

It does seem to me that if a time out is needed by either party then that should surely be an option.

Timeouts are definitely an option in my relationship with proud. There are several ways that I can accomplish this task, and I am sure he knows what they are cause they are there in the house.


I think Eb said it... her subs know what is expected of them and if they misbehave she doesn't punish them.... she gets rid of them.

Yep, I said it, and it still holds for any part-time sub I have now and/or in the future. However again I must say that dismissing proud is not an option. He knows I have the inclination and the means to make any corrections in his behavior if need be. he is Mine.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

oops

Originally posted by cellis
Only once did I question him about something and he let me know how much that displeased him and there was discipline involved. It was not physical. He just talked to me. (Of course I was naked on my knees while he talked.)

Cellis, now that I am embarking on a 24/7 Mistress/slave relationship, my actions are not the same as they are for my part-time boys.

First of all, dismissal is not an option for proud. We have a commitment for a certain time period with an expectation of lifetime. So I am apt to use the response(s) you so eloquently described above.

That being the case, we are both emotional people, me more so than him. When I am upset over something, he simply is quiet and then when I have run the course (because he knows I have to get it out) he will then talk to me in a rational manner.

This statement appeals to me also. I am emotional, and I would have to step back and listen, then think about things before taking action.

For one thing, I would have to analyze if proud's misbehaviour was the result of my failure to give clear directions, and consistent guidance.

It does seem to me that if a time out is needed by either party then that should surely be an option.

Timeouts are definitely an option in my relationship with proud. There are several ways that I can accomplish this task, and I am sure he knows what they are cause they are there in the house.


I think Eb said it... her subs know what is expected of them and if they misbehave she doesn't punish them.... she gets rid of them.

Yep, I said it, and it still holds for any part-time sub I have now and/or in the future. However again I must say that dismissing proud is not an option. He knows I have the inclination and the means to make any corrections in his behavior if need be. he is Mine.

Eb

I timed out again!

 

[cellis]

That's ok! I knew it was you Eb!

I guess the point too that I was trying to make it than when there is more involved than something part-time... dismissal is not always an option.

 

[artful]

An Opinion

That's ok! I knew it was you Eb!

I guess the point too that I was trying to make it than when there is more involved than something part-time... dismissal is not always an option.

Dismissal is ALWAYS an option for a Dom/me,...and severance of the relationship is ALWAYS an option for the sub. (As relates to SSC)

 

[MasterKensbeany]

I have been reading this thread with great interest, appreciating the wealth of wisdom being shared here. While Master has thus far not needed to punish me beyond a sharp word here and there or some ritualized punishment as part of our play, I know that I am a fallible person and that someday I may screw up badly enough for him to to do something drastic. I don't have a volitile temper but, when it flares I become unreasonable and tend to speak before I think. I would understand Master cutting off communication temporarily, in fact its just the kind of thing he'd do. I personally wouldn't see it as abusive, simply as a tool to keep his own cool and give me time to get my emotions under control. Getting into a shouting match with me or lashing out at me in anger would only make me lose respect for him.

The bottom line, of course, is that he is my Master and I am his slave. Whatever he chooses to do to me is his decision and I know that it is done with love and with my best interest at heart. That's why I'm his.

Respectfully
beany

 

[PlayDoe]

Punishment = Pleasure

Don't confuse the bounds between real punishment and the "play of BDSM". BDSM is consentual and is fun. It can involve scenes that seem like punishment, but in reality are just play and are quite enjoyable for the sub. These are things that the sub really enjoys doing, however to intensify the scene, they pretend otherwise.

Real punishment of any nature, is something no sane adult would want to submit to. That's why we have prisons (and marriage I believe ;-)).

Now to get back to the original question instead of this twisted path. Play punishament can involve:

pussy torture (clothes pins)
masturbation scenes
orgasm denial
exhibitionism (in the car)
nipple torture
spanking

 

[MasterKensbeany]

Punishment = Pleasure

Dear Playdoe

I'm afraid I don't quite understand your post. Are you saying that real punishment is 'not' a part of a bdsm-D/s relationship? The way I'm reading it, you believe that punishment is only a part of play...am I reading it correctly?

Respectfully
beany

 

[PlayDoe]

Punishement = Consent

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Being a BDSM sub is a consentual thing. What I'm about to say has been stated before but let me say it again:

If you enjoyed having your nipples twisted, however, against your will, you were abducted and nipple torture was applied, do you think you would enjoy it?

I'd say no. When you consent to be someone's sub, you consent to a certain set of rules that you have hopefully negoitiated.
You agree to those rules and the consequences for breaking them, because you know it will be fun. It's all play because of this. It's not "real punishment". Real punishement (to me) is when you break the law and you have no choice over the consequences.

 

[MasterKensbeany]

Punishement = Consent

Dear Playdoe

Perhaps our differences stem from our self identities. You think of yourself as a sub, I am a slave. I have given my consent, contractually, for my Master to do anything with me that he wishes, up to and including real punishments. Master worked hard to earn the respect I have for his judgement and the trust I put in him. For Master and myself, this is not play (although we do have our play times), it is a serious relationship with real rules and real consequences. The consequences are not for me alone, I might add, as Sir Artful said, the one right I have left in this relationship is to walk away.

Don't mistake me here. I'm not saying that the way you choose to live the lifestyle is any less real or right or good for you, only that its not the same as how Master and I choose to live. Each of us finds our own level to live and if our needs are being met and we're happy, that's all that counts. I would ask you however, not to assume that the level you're on is the only one or that mine isn't a real and true life choice.

Respectfully
beany

 

[NemoAlia]

In my opinion, punishment (in a D/s relationship) is too often a glorified word for the Dominant's own personal hissy fit. To me, it seems that cutting off communication is a childish way of dealing with frustration or disappointment.

However, I agree with many of the posters here that taking time to reflect is often necessary. Okay... so why not reflect while you're both doing something that is fun rather than abusive? For example: take a walk together, silently, and neither one of you can say a word until at least ten minutes have passed, you've smiled at each other, and you've kissed passionately under a tree. Or... y'know... a good ol' fashioned spankin' will suffice, as long as it's easily confused with mutual enjoyment. Reminding each other of how good the relationship is and why it's worthwhile to solve the little problems that might come up seems to be the best way to motivate each other to fix things quickly and reasonably.

The silent treatment would probably just piss me off more.

 

[PlayDoe]

No problem

Well, I never said I was a sub, although I have taken this role in the past.

I hear what you say about your choice and that's my point. You can call it punishment all you want, however, you can walk away from it, if you choose. You have that power. To me (notice I said me) that isn't real punishment. Working out real issues (in my opinion) can't be done through "punishment". It requires two way communication no matter what your lifestyle.

I apologize to the owner of this thread for taking it in this direction. If you'd like to contiue to discuss this subject we should start a new thread.

 

[~Dream~]

Caspai..

Dream is new to bdsm. I have never claimed to understand everything about it, but I recognize it as a journey, not as a destination. She is struggling with many of the things that are necessary to bdsm, and it seems to me it would be most appropriate to take things gradually rather than to just jump in at the deep end all at once and expect that everything is going to be smooth. That isn't realistic. What I suggest is to use compromise as a starting point, not as an ending point, and to slowly work toward a more Dominant position. It is called TRAINING, is it not?

_____________________________
Thank-you for UNDERSTANDING me Caspai,that means alot..
I am sorry that be cause you have differing viewpoints that my Master seems to feel that you are "taking my side" ,I choose to look at it as "Caspais's opinion on what might help our relationship" however I feel Master "THINKS" He knows what is BEST in that regards and as His submissive ,it is my place to honor & respect His right to do that..I AM spose to do as He wishes ,His will,NOT my own , and ideally things would "magically work out right , however they always do not.. We DO have differences of opinion often,lately it seems as we are learning new things about each other and the relationship itself..
I would like to say I am NOT a "doormat" however clarifying the feeling that I. Myself derived from P.B.W.'s post about not being "EQUAL.. i DO have EQUAL VALUE in my opinions in my Master's eyes , however after discussing certain matters ,Master will make the FINAL decision on them.

I do view the stopping the communication as quite hurtful and very abusive to me , thats MY feelings and I OWN THEM .. I was left alone before for awhile by a man who tried raping me and that is always brought to the forefront of my mind when Master "chooses' to leave me "alone ' in messenger or just stops the discussion altogether,He is weilding His power over me ,plain,pure and simple and it is the only means He Has at the moment ,unfortunately at His disposal for "disciplining me"
I really HATE it as much as a child HATES being seperated from his/her parent , it hurts deeply& greatly... to me it solves Nothing but does indeed cause me ALOT of STRESS , Anxiety, AND PROVOKES me to Anger... thats what REALLY happens .. that is MY REALITY...

 

[Soron]

I hate to have to punish...

Punishment is really a last resort for me. I hate to physically punish. So, I have a rattan cane for punishment. I won't hesitate to use it if I have to and I will push limits to get my point across. Then, I will forgive her and she will thank me for caring enough to punish her.
As most slaves grow in a relationship discipline in one form or another seems to negate the need for punishment. A focused slave will do all she can not to disappoint her Master.
A good spanking a few days a week is good discipline.

 

[~Dream~]

Soron, You made a good point..

"A focused slave will do all she can not to disappoint her Master" I totally agree with that.. as for the "spanking idea, in my case that would NEVER work as I LOVE being spanked too much

 

[Quint]

I dislike, in my own relationship, cutting off communication to "teach me a lesson." I don't think I ever get to the level of irrationality that such a display of contempt--yes, from my own mouth!--would be warranted and/or helpful in any way. Avoiding the problem does not solve it. As far back as I can remember, I've made a habit out of never going to bed angry. Talking can fix problems. Silence can compound them.

This is especially true in my LDR. Your mileage, blah blah blah. I personally find it a short-term, possibly counterproductive, perhaps even cowardly approach to a problem. But that is because I can't see myself ever doing anything that would make T see this as a viable option.

Summary: I just put too much store in myself as a rational person to accept punishment this irrational.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I dislike, in my own relationship, cutting off communication to "teach me a lesson." I don't think I ever get to the level of irrationality that such a display of contempt--yes, from my own mouth!--would be warranted and/or helpful in any way. Avoiding the problem does not solve it. As far back as I can remember, I've made a habit out of never going to bed angry. Talking can fix problems. Silence can compound them.

This is especially true in my LDR. Your mileage, blah blah blah. I personally find it a short-term, possibly counterproductive, perhaps even cowardly approach to a problem. But that is because I can't see myself ever doing anything that would make T see this as a viable option.

Summary: I just put too much store in myself as a rational person to accept punishment this irrational.

Cowardly & irrational?

That is a bit inflammatory and judgmental is it not?

Eb

 

[NemoAlia]

Quint, you and I often agree in our judgments.

How would the rest of y'all describe a Dom/me's decision to cut off communication?

Edited to add: I forgot to giggle at Soron's discussion of physical punishment:

I hate to physically punish. So, I have a rattan cane for punishment.

 

[serijules]

Re: Punishment = Pleasure

*moved comment to appropriate thread*