Punching, kicking, etc. in D/s...

[Queen Bee]

I do understand the general usage of the phrase; I was opining that

a) it is euphemistic and inadequate when used to mean spousal assault or battery and

b) it is a reasonable phrase to use in this setting in reference to consensual violence between partners. I think your fear -- that using the term "D.V." to mean a particular type of fantasy will contribute to confusion about the difference between consensual and nonconsensual violence -- is groundless.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Having my face slapped holds an intimacy for me the way kissing does. Over a year ago on the day I met my Master he pulled me to him and slapped my face, evoking my full attention. I was stunned, no man had ever done this to me before - in the past I had been spanked, belted, tied up urging my boyfriends along, in arguments I lashed out in hopes of being struck back, compelled by the energy of the rising antagonism.

On the floor at his feet, I came to surrender, trust, let go. I found myself licking the boots that had kicked me, the way submissive men had done to me, something I had never imagined myself doing. Later he slapped me over and over, my hair clinging to my tear streaked face, regarding me calmly before kissing me for the first time.

At times he slaps me when I tell him love him. Master trained a boxer for years so sometimes we have very rough sex together, punching, slapping, biting, belting - he always keeps a belt made by his own hands at the top of the bed. We have been together for over a year now and I have found guidance, discipline, and a man who appreciates that I love to cook, clean and do his laundry for him, and fucks me from behind while doing I’m it!

Deeply and wonderfully romantic.

 

[ownedsubgal]

agree completely with Queen Bee's last post. the term "domestic violence" is indeed a fitting description of what goes on in the lives of some D/s'ers and perhaps even some bdsm'ers. just because your average cop/social worker/courthouse judge defines domestic violence as something non-consentual and abusive does not make it so...and were most of them to take a look into many of the lives of those here, they would say there's no way the way we live could be consentual or non-abusive. i have always used the term DV literally...violence in the home, usually between family members or two romantic partners. that is precisely what occurs at times between my Master and i, and we have no qualms whatsoever about defining it as such.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

Eeyup, I know where you're coming from, ssp. (I think I say that a lot to you.) I've just recently discovered a dirty little exciting thrilling need from hearing T say a certain phrase, stare down at me a certain way, pull his belt out of his pants. Any of that. Random acts of violence. Part of the thrill is akin to roleplaying, but I think that's my mind's rationalization of what I know is not abuse, but sure as hell feels like it at the time*.

It's the part of me that hungers for stereotypes--Nazi, abusive Southern husband who's had too much to drink, Daddy with impure intentions. The end result is that it isn't a beating I've asked for, but I get it anyway. Much scarier that way.


*As opposed to feeling like it afterwards, which it does not because as Catalina said, it's not DV but a "consensual" remix of it.

i meant to reply to this yesteday...you hit the nail on the head, and you explained exactly how i feel far more eloquently than i was able to and when i read your posts i feel i know where you're coming from a lot of the times as well.

i think part of it is, like you said, it feels more nonconsensual than Master saying "go get the flogger". its hotter to me when it comes out of nowhere or near nowhere, swift and brutal. it just feels so very primal and passionate and feels like, yes, domestic violence. and again, the words themselves can cause a rather warm reaction in certain parts of my body. even with all the "baggage" they carry. maybe because its such a taboo thing to find sexy.

osg-thats another thing that appeals to me personally, tho its probably not taht way for you-the fact that if an outsider saw it theyd be shocked and probably horrified, much more so than if they saw my Master using a nice sweet suede flogger on me. i love knowing that. i love knowing that what we do would seriously freak most people out

*sighs* hot buttons are hot buttons, no getting around them.

 

[Netzach]

Firstly, if they don't speak english, the whole argument is redundent isn't it? If they don't understand what BDSM stands for, I daresay being on this board they are soon going to understand at least something about it, and are in terms of speaking of odds unlikely to hit on these couple of posts first off.

As for someone saying they like to be hit, that was not my issue was it? My issue was with identifying with loving being a DV victim and finding the whole act sexy and a turn on......then admitting it doesn't really turn on at all and isn't sexy. It is not about teaching, but perhaps enlightening someone who hadn't thought about something from another's real life perspective, that it is not just a light and funny statement to make with no possible repercussions.
I'm so glad you've chosen to enlighten us. I'm sure the weight of the statement was completely out of consideration when people posted what they did, they didnd't realize that domestic violence is a horrible reality and they certainly have no firsthand experience with it, because nobody could possible romanticize or eroticize something so fucked up.

I would hazard to guess you yourself Netzach, for all your bravado, ooo, bravado. Brazen is next isn't it?]

would not get off on having a gun held to your head, beaten to a pulp, and strangled to death or near death..so why glorify it as a desired choice when you know it isn't? You don't know anything about my interior life, my fantasies and what gets me off. You have no clue at all. In the interest of enlightening you, I have a small unfulfilled desire to be assfucked and beaten and indulge in gun play with someone in SS uniform as a bottom. It's not grown to the extent that I fantasize about being shot by neo-nazis in Wisconsin, but if that's my jackoff, that is my personal right to jack off, and fuck anyone who says differently. Generations of my entire family were murdered in the atrocities in Europe. I have pretty damn good knowledge of just what the extent of my eroticizing such a thing implies. And I have no need to apologize for that, or explain it. I draw a similar parallel to DV as you call it. or And if you say you would never let yourself be in that position, it just shows your inability to comprehend that even the smartest women, judges, doctors, lawyers, policewomen, scientists, actresses, you name it, are all on the list of dead and living victims/survivors..and most of those living will tell you they were very vocal earlier in their life they would never be a victim of abuse. Is a huge misconception many have that only stupid women become victims...reality is a significant number are in the higher IQ bracket. Thank you again for the tip, I thought it was only helpless white trash losers and no one I know that this happened to. If you had neglected to inform me I would have never known, in spite of the fact that the only other college graduate in my family is its only victim of DV.

]

 

[ownedsubgal]

sigsauer, i get that "if they only knew" thrill sometimes as well. especially if we are around conservative vanillas with no clue at all about our relationship or lifestyle. like if my Master is talking with a business associate, looking the picture perfect sophisticated, professional, handsome, charismatic, cordial businessman. if they only knew that that same perfect gentleman regularly beats the stuffing out of the love of his life, kicking me with those shiny dress shoes.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

I have a small unfulfilled desire to be assfucked and beaten and indulge in gun play with someone in SS uniform as a bottom.
]

gun play...another fantasy of mine. something i havent really talked about here as i dont know how it would be recieved, but its something i do think about.

osg-exactly. "if they only knew"

 

[Etoile]

Actually, I have the "if only they knew" thing come up for me quite a bit, too. I love watching Daddy in group social situations when e may not realize I'm watching em. At eir 40th birthday party a few years ago there were a whole bunch of us together at a restaurant, and I kept my eye on em while also chatting with the people across the table from me. Some of eir coworkers were there, and I loved thinking "they have no idea!" and watching em interact with them. I kind of wonder if e ever does the same thing about me - while I'm talking with somebody, does e think about bending me over the table or what e's done to me at home?

 

[Texture]

noone wins an internet argument. it's like the domestic violence olympics. you might think you're beating someone, but everyone's a loser.

including me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Interesting topic bump?

 

[Xelebes]

I once witnessed a couple at a public playspace doing punching. Earlier in the evening, the woman was punching the man, chained to the wall, repeatedly, really working up a sweat, almost as if he were one of those hanging punching bags. She was quite fit and trim and he seemed to be none the worse for wear afterwards. Then, later in the evening, I observed the same couple, roles reversed, with the man punching the woman! Evidently switches...

As you say, something I had never observed before. Had I not observed these scenes, I would be rather skeptical that this could be done safely, but having seen this (and having met the lady once previously and had an interesting and intelligent discussion with her). Not my cup of tea, but I guess I'll have to be open minded, ha!

But I do wonder- isn't there a lot more risk involved in this? Both scenes I witnessed involved punching to the abdomen, stomach area as well as thighs and buttocks.

-justina

Reminds me of that scene from Ichi the Killer.



I'm all for the punching, kicking, slapping and stuff - that's the form of masochist I am (there are others which I am fond of.)

 

[Etoile]

Thanks for that bump, Catalina! I've always liked this thread, and reading my last post just above gave me a smile.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thanks for that bump, Catalina! I've always liked this thread, and reading my last post just above gave me a smile.

LOL, well I think there are a number of advantages to bumping old threads, some being:

- allowing newer posters an opportunity to contribute to previous discussions they may not have found.

- gives us older posters a chance to look back, sometimes cringe worthy, sometimes pleasant, sometimes nostalgic (as in absent faces as well as our own life at certain points), and more often than not growth enriching.

- gives an opportunity to post our most recent thoughts on a topic which more than once have done a complete flip in the opposite direction as we have grown and changed, added new experiences and perspectives to our journey.

- LOL, saves us sometimes searching for the links to give new posters with the same questions or ponderings.

All in all I see it as a positive way of using the resources we have on a forum which incorporates such a diverse and knowledgeable membership of people from various corners of the globe.

Catalina

 

[Lisa_1978]

Punching is so erotic to me. It makes me cum just thinking about it...but even though I LOVE the fantasy, I don't think I would enjoy the reality. It's a little too close to the edge for me.

 

[YinandYang]

Thanks for giving us newies a chance to read and partake in this thread. From a fantasy point of view, actual beating figures heavily, probably because its a taboo subject for me...that makes it more risque and exciting lol. I have never been punched or kicked although have got as close as I can (and as close as my master can without feeling guilt maybe?). One of the things he did during our first few months together still feature heavily in my fantasy time, even now. He asked me not to talk back at him (I can be quite willful and he likes that side of me as it gives him more ammunition lol). I started to retort something back to him, and he slapped me hard across the face. Because I was on my knees and my arms bound behind my back, I inevitably fell over....the suprise of him doing that was such a turn on. He doesn't do it often, as the suprise gets me even more than the slap. He has also used his foot to push me over in that position but not actually kicked.

I think if there is absolute consent between two people then anything goes, but talking about your limits first is important.

 

[ownedsubgal]

...bumping this one because of some interesting things going on recently...

the first has to do with the new submissive my Master is currently mentoring/training. He does this from time to time, takes a new girl under his wing and gets her feet wet, forces her to look within and ask herself all the hard questions, helps determine whether or not this path is truly for them, etc.
so the latest girl, she's in her mid 30s, and though seems to definitely have some submissive characteristics, is coming from a place of "i must be a strong and proud independent black woman." yep, one of those. but she is clearly trying to learn all she can and seems to at heart have a real desire to serve.

so what does this have to do with punching and kicking? well it turns out she is also a very dedicated volunteer counselor at a battered women's shelter. as part of this couseling, she tells these women what is and is not love, what is and is not acceptable behavior from a male partner, etc. the other day she picked me up and we went out for coffee and a chat. she started telling me about the inner conflict that she feels between pursuing this lifestyle and her work as a counselor to battered women. i told her that CONSENT is the key factor that divides this way of life from that of the women at the shelter. still, she's clearly hung up on actions...a whipping with the belt or firm spanking is fine, but a strike with a closed hand or a kick is not. ever. also, anything resembling a real "beating,"...also not fine. she also does not understand my Master's way of sometimes beating me as a physical release when he is stressed or frustrated after a hard day, nor my acceptance of it (it's still a confusing concept to her that a slave just accepts, period). she started using vanilla domestic abuse helpline talk, like, "that's just NOT how you express love." she also kept trying to draw lines between acceptable "lifestyle-related" actions, and unacceptable evil abuser actions, asking me questions like, "i mean, it's not like he [Daddy] would ever black an eye or something, right?" (nervous giggle)..and of course i just kept my mouth shut, smiled and sipped my green iced tea. my only comment along that line was "as Master he has the right to do what he wills with his own property," but i tried to comfort her with, "luckily, you are not his property."

now the hilarious thing was, during this little "girl chat," she kept staring at my face, especially my lip. and she had good reason to stare...my lip had been busted up and was still quite swollen from a beating someone (not my Master) had given me friday, and i also had what my Master calls a "strawberry" on my right cheek. it was obvious that miss new exploring subbie was looking at me and thinking that just maybe i was a poor and downtrodden battered woman, and wondering what the flock had she gotten herself into. but of course, she didn't ask about my face, and i didn't volunteer any information. i like to be helpful and comforting like that, lol.

also, she's clearly nuts about my Master. i don't blame her, he's easy to be nuts about. but now she's realizing that this very sophisticated, distinguished, handsome, cool and confident Preacher's Kid is also someone who will knock a girl into next thursday and not bat an eye. that the concept of "it's about his pleasure and his will," doesn't just apply to the fun stuff like sex and bdsm activities.

Daddy of course is very frustrated with her lack of consistency and general wishy-washiness. He has instructed her to be honest with herself and ask herself what it is she truly wants and needs, and in the meantime stop trying to paint his way of life with me as a lifetime movie of the week. so we'll see what happens.

but it never ceases to amaze me...all this turmoil, all this discomfort, all the venom and unacceptance, that comes about when folks realize that in your relationship "beatings" are not confined to fun and games or disciplinary action, nor to sexy leather implements and tools. what makes a punch to the face evoke such reactions, but not a whipping to the point of blood flying?

 

[catalina_francisco]

As someone who has been in the position of being a DV counsellor full time, while also becoming more and more involved in this lifestyle at the same time, it does take awhile to get your head around the tough conflicts. For some it is such a severe conflict of interest it is necessary to choose between lifestyle and career path to do the best by both clients and yourself. Give her time, she may surprise you both. After all, she is not only fighting against what she has been taught by society for her 30+ years, but she is working in an environemnt where it is in her face constantly and reinforcing tenfol all she has been raised to believe. Keep talking about consent with her, letting her talk about her conflict, and it may help more than you think. Surprisingly perhaps, IME there are a lot of women working in the DV field who are into D/s and/or SM in their private lives, but due to the nature of their work find it is safer to keep it quiet.

Catalina

 

[BiBunny]

I agree, kind of, that the issue is consent. But, English major that I am, I'd like to put a finer point on it, if I may.

The problem is that the definition of consent varies a good bit from person to person. As for me, I may be a lot of things, but I'm as good as my word. If I tell someone he/she can do anything he/she wants with me, no questions asked, even if something I wasn't expecting is sprung on me, then it's my own fault for not looking into it more deeply, and I suck it up and deal, anyway. I don't whine that "I never agreed to that because YOU never brought it up."

Also, I don't have a problem with blanket consent, like some people do. I mean, if I agreed to be here and do whatever you say, then that's what I mean. If I say, "I'm your [insert pyl-type-label here], and you can do what you want with me," then you can do what you want with me, whether I like it or not. If I make that agreement with someone, then he/she shouldn't have to ask, "Is this ok?" every time that person wants to do something not previously discussed.

People think everything about slavery is supposed to be sunshine and roses. I know myself well enough to know that an arrangement like OSG's or Cat's would never work for me. I think most people don't know themselves well enough to decide what they need and/or want and end up going through life with ridiculous notions about things that don't necessarily work out.

So, yeah, consent. But folks like to put their own definitions on words, for whatever reason, and that's generally what complicates things in matters like this.

For the record, I love to be punched, kicked, whatever, and to do it to others.

 

[Zoots_owner]

Everybody agrees about the consent part, but is it enough? How about the guy who consented to be cut up and eaten a few years back? What about a woman who chooses to stay with a man who keeps putting her into the hospital, and eventually kills her? I don't think that most members of the community would be willing to accept the idea that consenting to something which results in permanent debility or death really qualifies as BDSM.

So, along with consent, people usually include criteria like "safe" and "sane." Cannibalism can't possibly be called safe, so that takes care of the one dilemma, but the boundary's still murky, since few, if any, activities are completely risk-free. People occasionally die from a single blow to the torso or head, and professional boxers sustain massive brain damage on the job, often resulting in impaired mental abilities and shortened lifespan. But, barring such extreme examples, where is the border for safety?

"Sane" is a criteria I've heard some object to, and refuse to follow, but it's so subjective as to be nearly meaningless.

I guess what I'm getting at here is that a given individual can't be expected to agree with your standards of what is acceptable, or with mine. Everybody has their own yardstick, which is why I recommend that PYLs and pyls have clear and comprehensive written agreements defining where all of their boundaries are. One person's "safe and sane" is another person's abuse.

 

[Homburg]

but it never ceases to amaze me...all this turmoil, all this discomfort, all the venom and unacceptance, that comes about when folks realize that in your relationship "beatings" are not confined to fun and games or disciplinary action, nor to sexy leather implements and tools. what makes a punch to the face evoke such reactions, but not a whipping to the point of blood flying?

In my own case, it was how I was raised. To close my fist meant that I was acknowledging that control had slipped, and that serious, harmful, violent action was the only way out. I have gotten into a few nonconsensual physical conflicts in my life, and the vast majority of them have been entered with my hands open as a result of my upbringing.

It's facetious, really. An open hand can strike in ways potentially more damaging than a closed fist (I once knocked a man out with an open handed clout to the side of the head), but it is still how I was brought up. As a further result of that upbringing, I interpret a closed fist as a willful decision to cause harm. So when I see someone close fist and strike, my gut reaction is that they intend to injure the person they are striking.

In the end, it is purely psychological, and taps into my Fight or, well, Fight response. I don't really do Flight all that well once I get to that point, so I learned to defuse/deflect much earlier in the conflict cycle as a result.

Do I think of it as abuse? Intellectually, no. But my reaction is not a pleasant one. Still, I will slap somebody stupid if they deserve it. *shrug*

 

[Homburg]

Follow-up to the previous post:

I've done a fair amount of martial arts over the years, and loved to spar, and did some boxing too. Limited rules matches are pretty much willful intent to harm. Still would keep my hands open until I was actually throwing a strike.

I threw my first angry punch at 6 years old. There was a ten year old kid in the neighbourhood that liked to push the little ones around. I'd decided I had enough of him, picked an argument with his younger brother, and got his attention. When he came up and went to take a swing, I popped him in the nose, hard as I could. After he got up (bleeding solidly) he ran to his dad, and I went home (savouring the horrified expression ont he face of his annoying "My brother will get you for that!" face). My father told his off, and made clear that he would do the same as I did if the bully's dad pressed, and then gave me a talking to. Nothing angry, as he figured I'd done right in teaching the 10yr old a lesson, but he impressed very clearly on my young mind that a closed fist meant intent to harm, injure, and possibly kill. I don't have a whole lot of memories of my childhood, but I remember that afternoon and evening VERY clearly. Those sorts of lessons stick with you, in more ways than one.

And I mention none of this to make a value judgement on closed fits, kicks, etc in BDSM. Just explaining why I have the reactions I have. Were I to see what happenes between you and your Daddy, OSG, I doubt I would have an averse reaction, as you've described it many times and I would know that it is an accepted parameter in your relationship. So no value judgements, just explanations for why I don't do it myself.

 

[myinnerslut]

sigsauer, i get that "if they only knew" thrill sometimes as well. especially if we are around conservative vanillas with no clue at all about our relationship or lifestyle. like if my Master is talking with a business associate, looking the picture perfect sophisticated, professional, handsome, charismatic, cordial businessman. if they only knew that that same perfect gentleman regularly beats the stuffing out of the love of his life, kicking me with those shiny dress shoes.

i think this all the time, both about Master and myself

 

[ownedsubgal]

As someone who has been in the position of being a DV counsellor full time, while also becoming more and more involved in this lifestyle at the same time, it does take awhile to get your head around the tough conflicts. For some it is such a severe conflict of interest it is necessary to choose between lifestyle and career path to do the best by both clients and yourself. Give her time, she may surprise you both. After all, she is not only fighting against what she has been taught by society for her 30+ years, but she is working in an environemnt where it is in her face constantly and reinforcing tenfol all she has been raised to believe. Keep talking about consent with her, letting her talk about her conflict, and it may help more than you think. Surprisingly perhaps, IME there are a lot of women working in the DV field who are into D/s and/or SM in their private lives, but due to the nature of their work find it is safer to keep it quiet.

Catalina

that's interesting Catalina (about DV workers being in the lifestyle), and something i never would have guessed.

who knows, as you say she may end up surprising us and finally coming to a place of self-acceptance and understanding. normally i don't play much of a part when my Master is mentoring a girl, but in this case he felt it might be helpful if she was able to talk with me, ask questions, and see with her own eyes just how this all can work in everyday life. so i'm trying my best to be there as both a sounding board and as sort of a silent guide. i also know that she feels more free expressing certain feelings and thoughts to me than to my Master.

when she was telling me about some of the women she counsels...women married to alcoholics and drug addicts, women who've been set on fire, women with half their faces blown away by a bullet...and then in the same breath says that she feels like a hypocrite for pursuing this lifestyle, and is conflicted about her desires....i guess i just don't follow. to me such nightmarish situations have no relation whatsoever to consensual D/s or M/s. a drug addict or alcoholic who beats a woman is not in control of himself...someone who pours gasoline on their sleeping girlfriend and lights a match is not doing so for the betterment of the relationship. and while on the surface some things may seem the same...a batterer may take his fists to his woman when he has a bad day, as my Master may do from time to time, and afterwards the battered woman and myself may end up in tears and walking around with black eyes for a while. but the difference is that you will see me, as i was this weekend, walking around with a smile through those bruises, because i feel safe and content. the same cannot be said of the battered woman. but maybe for some, it is just hard to see the difference.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Follow-up to the previous post:

I've done a fair amount of martial arts over the years, and loved to spar, and did some boxing too. Limited rules matches are pretty much willful intent to harm. Still would keep my hands open until I was actually throwing a strike.

I threw my first angry punch at 6 years old. There was a ten year old kid in the neighbourhood that liked to push the little ones around. I'd decided I had enough of him, picked an argument with his younger brother, and got his attention. When he came up and went to take a swing, I popped him in the nose, hard as I could. After he got up (bleeding solidly) he ran to his dad, and I went home (savouring the horrified expression ont he face of his annoying "My brother will get you for that!" face). My father told his off, and made clear that he would do the same as I did if the bully's dad pressed, and then gave me a talking to. Nothing angry, as he figured I'd done right in teaching the 10yr old a lesson, but he impressed very clearly on my young mind that a closed fist meant intent to harm, injure, and possibly kill. I don't have a whole lot of memories of my childhood, but I remember that afternoon and evening VERY clearly. Those sorts of lessons stick with you, in more ways than one.

And I mention none of this to make a value judgement on closed fits, kicks, etc in BDSM. Just explaining why I have the reactions I have. Were I to see what happenes between you and your Daddy, OSG, I doubt I would have an averse reaction, as you've described it many times and I would know that it is an accepted parameter in your relationship. So no value judgements, just explanations for why I don't do it myself.

Homburg, what you're saying here makes total sense. for most people, punching and kicking seems to evoke a culturally or socially-ingrained psychological response. to some, it automatically means abuse. for you, it means intent to seriously harm or injure. to others, it is akin to saying "i don't love or value you." and the many reasons why this type of hitting evokes such emotions in people fascinate me, and is a big part of the reason i started this thread. the other reason of course had to do with nosiness, wanting to know who else incorporates p/k either into their bdsm activities or just their everyday D/s or M/s life.

 

[Homburg]

Homburg, what you're saying here makes total sense. for most people, punching and kicking seems to evoke a culturally or socially-ingrained psychological response. to some, it automatically means abuse. for you, it means intent to seriously harm or injure. to others, it is akin to saying "i don't love or value you." and the many reasons why this type of hitting evokes such emotions in people fascinate me, and is a big part of the reason i started this thread. the other reason of course had to do with nosiness, wanting to know who else incorporates p/k either into their bdsm activities or just their everyday D/s or M/s life.

Well, I was trying to draw a fine line. I don't actually find that it inherently denotes abuse. Yes, it is probably more likely to be abuse, but it is not necessarily so within my own psyche. It is, however, guaranteed to be violence, harm, at least insofar as my reactions are concerned. While it is not difficult for me to accept it consensually (boxing, MA, etc), it is difficult for me to consider it proper fodder for a relationship such as my own.

See, to use mor epointed examples, my friend Danny and I were part of the same MA group. It was a VERY aggressive, pro-sparring group, and pretty much any time we wanted we could tell the instructor that we'd rather hit the mats and work out issues on our own. In his eyes, full-contact work was worth its' weight in gold, and he would just observe, possibly commenting on it.

Danny was a really good friend of mine, and had a stressful job (he did juvenile corrections), and would want this sort of thing about once a month. If it had been a particularly bad week, he'd keep ramping it up til we were going full-strength, full-speed, full-contact. Many, many times one or both of us left the session bloody and bruised.

This is a guy that I loved like a brother, and would do anything for, and I was perfectly happy to tackle him and pound his face in until he tapped out. So I can dig the idea of beating the ever-lovin hell out of someone that you care about, even with closed fists. I just can't eroticise it.

It is probably in line with how I am generally not turned on by rape fantasy, and haven't really gotten much into rape scenes. I have no interest in crossing the line into violence when it comes to sexuality. I like to keep the two basically seperate, even if elements of each blend into the other. There are just lines I won't cross. I don't want to strike either of my gals with a closed fist any more than I wanted to beat Danny down and bugger him.

ETA: I also don't particular feel like punching or kicking devalues the person. More that it's just not how I express my love, or sexuality.