Punishment

[JMohegan]

See JM, this is what I was referring to when I hinted at your making judgements about subs who you feel are not right for you...if they are not the type sub you would choose, you tend to attach negative traits, assumptions and comments to what you imagine must be their failings (from your POV). As a point of interest, one of the strongest points I had while looking for F was that I was not wilfully disobedient, was very respectful, and was told many a time by 20+ years RL experienced Dominants that I was one of the most submissive pyl's they had met, thus I had many good offers and met many Dominants from all corners of the globe. They also appreciated I had a brain and was very strong as a person and was very self aware about who I was and what I wanted. Those things have not changed, nor has my need to live this lifestyle 24/7 and TPE as I set out to do. Punishment is not a frequent thing in our relationship, but it is a reality we deal with and can admit to, and just as it is not your thing, it works for us and there are good reasons for it to be a tool we know is always there.

As to the seat belt example (these Pure similarities are really unsettling ), if I did that and told F I had done it, guess what, he would be very upset because in his way of thinking not only do I have a responsibility to take care of his property, but he also would not like the fact my life could have been endangered so needlessly...if he felt by punishing me it would ensure I would not do it again and thus not risk myself, he would see that as a very positive means of dealing with it as opposed to shrugging his shoulders and saying 'no worries'.

Catalina

I used the seatbelt example when addressing Serijules because she, herself, had given this as an example of a situation involving her own punishment on the Chris9 punishment thread.

I am curious, Catalina, as to why you are comparing my posts to Pure's. Is this an idle observation of yours, or are you attempting to send some sort of message to me or others here? Would you please explain?

As for the remarks in your opening paragraph, I fail to see why my remarks about willful disobedience or overt disrespect would prompt such a defensive reaction from you. I have never once stated or even implied that you are prone to these things. So why the defensiveness? Would you please explain that too?

 

[serijules]

Seri, that's cool. I'm speaking to my personal experiences with the concept and my personal dislike of it. I'll also grant that not every person is perfect for every situation - if I were with someone who really thrived with these touchstone moments of organized discipline I'd probably like it more myself. But I don't care for it and I don't find it useful with the people I happen to be with now, and my track record with people who really looked for it a lot or saw my use or lack of interest in punishment as a kind of Dominant litmus test has been kind of annoying.

Actually, you are one person that I feel expresses their dislike or non-need (nice word there huh) of punishment without making me feel defensive. Like you said, you have no need for it, but if others do, that's just fine.

Your last line sums it up good...people who see lack of interest in punishment as a kind of Dominant litmus test are annoying. For me, it's annoying when people see our use for punishment as some kind of failure of said test. It's just one of those topics (not necessarily in this thread) where people tend to be rather judgmental - usually unintentionally - and it creates a lot of unnecessary defensiveness. I'll be the first to admit I'm defensive on the topic.

 

[JMohegan]

There is a third alternative which is just stating that and expecting a positive response. Why is it snotty or pissy of me to *expect my partner to respect my concern about his person enough to just do it* and feel like I'm being cornered or manipulated if it has to be a bigger deal than that? Communicating the concern and expecting a positive response without instituting punishment/consequence etc. is not shrugging and going "no BFD."

Thank you. Exactly.

 

[serijules]

Perhaps so. However, I also see a lot of negativity, or rather misunderstanding, generated from two other sources as well.

The first of these is generated by *some* of the D/s relationships in which paternalism is a fundamental aspect of the dynamic. (I apologize for the gender-specific root of that word, but can't think of a better one at the moment.)

I am not solely referring to Daddy-Dom dynamics, but more broadly to the Dominant/little one dynamic, relationships in which the Dominant's role is perceived as nurturing & guiding the submissive, etc.

Among these types of relationships, some (but obviously not all) of the submissives talk and behave very much like children and are treated as the same by their Dominants, and punishment is nearly always presented as a key part of the dynamic in these cases.

Depending on the venue, the proportion of relationships involving child-like submissives to all relationships involving punishment may appear quite low or rather overwhelmingly high.

The childlike behavior of some is not wrong or unsubmissive as long as the Dominant appreciates and accepts it. But it does explain some of the perceptions that develop about D/s-style punishment overall.

The second source of misunderstanding stems from the fact that there are submissives who deliberately challenge or test their Dominants by acting out, in some cases on a regular or at least periodic basis.

Again, this is not wrong as long as the Dominant appreciates and accepts this type of opportunity to, as Netzach put it, "reaffirm and reassert status quo". But this clearly *is* manipulation. It *is* willful disobedience.

The existence of "make-me" submissives, and the Dominants who appreciate them, explain some of the perceptions that develop about D/s-style punishment too.

I understand that type very well and try to get people to not compare the relationships or lump them together. I call that crowd the "spankos" as spanking is often the main form of discipline, and it's a very different type of D/s dynamic where bratting and "manipulation" is not only ok, it's welcomed and a part of the interaction and what makes those people tick. Many of my friends are of this lifestyle and they are often just as misguided in their opinions of "our side of the fence" too.

Good post.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I am not answering for MP or rose, but for us the answer would be yes, it does serve a need for him and not one related to sexual turn on. As I pointed out above, it could be a case of increasing my safety, thus my being around to serve him for another day, year, decade etc. That does serve his needs, as well as mine, but I don't see that as a negative as is often inferred when talking of punishment, and it certainly is still not enjoyed by either of us even though it serves a need.

Catalina

exactly cat, thank you. Master never said it didn't serve a need. it serves two actually, His need to 'correct' a wrong doing by me and ensure that i will not do said 'wrong doing' again, and in me it helps put closure to the 'offense' . however that does NOT mean that we enjoy it in any way, sexual or otherwise. and He doesn't always use physical punishment, sometimes it's an assignment, sometimes He'll take a privilege away, it all depends on whatever it is i've done to displease Him. the one time i received the crop across my ass, was the best punishment for that offense. i was being very bratty and needed to be 'put back in my place' so to speak. He didn't say a word, got out of bed, grabbed the crop and told me to roll onto my stomach. He swatted me 7-8 times with the crop, and it was over. it hurt like a bitch and i cried like a baby but when it was over He held me, told me He loved me, and that was the end.

JM, You quoted Master in another thread where He said basically the same thing He said in this one, only with the one He said in this one you said You see nothing wrong with it, but the other one you found something wrong . i'm confused.

"I do things to punish her, but I don't really like to. But there are times when it has to be done."

this is what He said in the abuse thread.....below is what He said in THIS thread

In MY case, in MY relationship with rose, there are times when punishment is necessary. (I know you are going to disagree with this JM as you so vociferously did in the abuse thread, but I don't care what you think of me, so I will continue unabated) What I am saying is that there are times when she slips away from her place, and needs something to be a jolting reminder.

and then You said, in THIS thread...

Actually, Phoenix, as long as you acknowledge that punishment in your relationship reflects your personal choice and judgment, then I see no difference between your statement that punishment is necessary for you to effectively dominate Rose and my statement in post 49 that punishment is not necessary for me to effectively dominate my partners.

The statement of yours to which I objected on the other thread was: "I do things to punish her, but I don't really like to. But there are times when it has to be done."

could you tell me where in the first one He did NOT say that it was His opinion or His view, or how it works in OUR relationship. where did He make a general truth?? i do not see where the above statement of His is any different than His statement in this thread. he said 'i do things to punish HER, but i don't really like, but there are times it has to be done. maybe He should have added has be to done IN OUR RELATIONSHIP?? *shrugs* it gets really annoying when you have to put IMO, or IN MY RELATIONSHIP, etc...of course it's MY opinion, as i'm the one typing it out. i guess we just assume it's known that we dont' make statements for everyone in the lifestyle, therefore we do not constantly put IMO after every single thing we say in a thread. sorry cat, for quoting only your post, just wanted to kill two birds with one stone..LOL..

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I used the seatbelt example when addressing Serijules because she, herself, had given this as an example of a situation involving her own punishment on the Chris9 punishment thread.

I am curious, Catalina, as to why you are comparing my posts to Pure's. Is this an idle observation of yours, or are you attempting to send some sort of message to me or others here? Would you please explain?

As for the remarks in your opening paragraph, I fail to see why my remarks about willful disobedience or overt disrespect would prompt such a defensive reaction from you. I have never once stated or even implied that you are prone to these things. So why the defensiveness? Would you please explain that too?

i'm not speaking for cat, but i will say in my opinion, i've seen you many times say things that do make it look like you're saying if it's something you don't agree with then it's not right. you continue to say things in the punishment thread about 'willful disobedience' and 'overt disrespect' i took what you said to mean those are the reasons for punishment, and the women you are with are never that way, so there is no need for punishment. i am not willfully disobedient, nor am i overtly disrespectful, what i am is Human and i make mistakes. just because i get punished doesn't mean i'm willfully disobedient or disrespectful. and i think that's what cat was trying to say, again i'm not speaking for her, but this is way i feel as well, when i read your posts. no matter how hard i try there are going to be times that i displease Master, it makes me human. and if you can honestly say that the women you've been with have never displeased you, or you've never had to give them any form of 'correction' i'm just not sure i could take you seriously because to me that is like saying they are perfect and never mess up. but of course this is my opinion.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I am curious, Catalina, as to why you are comparing my posts to Pure's. Is this an idle observation of yours, or are you attempting to send some sort of message to me or others here? Would you please explain?

LOL, no message apart from the afact your posting style has of late become more and more Pure like and one has to wonder given the number of people who sometimes assume an alt to post under. Given Pure and we have had many bad and good times, more good than bad, I would consider it a compliment of sorts if you are indeed not one in the same or a long lost twin.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

exactly cat, thank you. Master never said it didn't serve a need. it serves two actually, His need to 'correct' a wrong doing by me and ensure that i will not do said 'wrong doing' again, and in me it helps put closure to the 'offense' . however that does NOT mean that we enjoy it in any way, sexual or otherwise. and He doesn't always use physical punishment, sometimes it's an assignment, sometimes He'll take a privilege away, it all depends on whatever it is i've done to displease Him. the one time i received the crop across my ass, was the best punishment for that offense. i was being very bratty and needed to be 'put back in my place' so to speak. He didn't say a word, got out of bed, grabbed the crop and told me to roll onto my stomach. He swatted me 7-8 times with the crop, and it was over. it hurt like a bitch and i cried like a baby but when it was over He held me, told me He loved me, and that was the end.

JM, You quoted Master in another thread where He said basically the same thing He said in this one, only with the one He said in this one you said You see nothing wrong with it, but the other one you found something wrong . i'm confused.

"I do things to punish her, but I don't really like to. But there are times when it has to be done."

this is what He said in the abuse thread.....below is what He said in THIS thread

In MY case, in MY relationship with rose, there are times when punishment is necessary. (I know you are going to disagree with this JM as you so vociferously did in the abuse thread, but I don't care what you think of me, so I will continue unabated) What I am saying is that there are times when she slips away from her place, and needs something to be a jolting reminder.

and then You said, in THIS thread...

Actually, Phoenix, as long as you acknowledge that punishment in your relationship reflects your personal choice and judgment, then I see no difference between your statement that punishment is necessary for you to effectively dominate Rose and my statement in post 49 that punishment is not necessary for me to effectively dominate my partners.

The statement of yours to which I objected on the other thread was: "I do things to punish her, but I don't really like to. But there are times when it has to be done."

could you tell me where in the first one He did NOT say that it was His opinion or His view, or how it works in OUR relationship. where did He make a general truth?? i do not see where the above statement of His is any different than His statement in this thread. he said 'i do things to punish HER, but i don't really like, but there are times it has to be done. maybe He should have added has be to done IN OUR RELATIONSHIP?? *shrugs* it gets really annoying when you have to put IMO, or IN MY RELATIONSHIP, etc...of course it's MY opinion, as i'm the one typing it out. i guess we just assume it's known that we dont' make statements for everyone in the lifestyle, therefore we do not constantly put IMO after every single thing we say in a thread.

I will try to resolve your confusion. But Rose, you and I don't have such a great track record communicating on this board. I am willing to take 50/50 responsibility for our failure to communicate, but what I am *not* willing to do is to go multiple rounds on the same subject with you any more. If we can not reach common understanding in a relatively short period of time, we are just going to have to agree to misunderstand one another and move on.

From the beginning of our exchanges on this subject, I have always understood that his comments about punishment that "has to be done" applied *solely* to your relationship.

I have never assumed, stated, or implied that Phoenix was making assertions about any relationship other than yours.

What I was asking on the abuse thread was why he chooses to incorporate corporal punishment into his own relationship if he does not like to do it, and why he feels as if corporal punishment "has to be done" in a relationship with you.

you continue to say things in the punishment thread about 'willful disobedience' and 'overt disrespect' i took what you said to mean those are the reasons for punishment, and the women you are with are never that way, so there is no need for punishment.

My partners have neither been willfully disobedient nor overtly disrespectful. That is correct.

i am not willfully disobedient, nor am i overtly disrespectful, what i am is Human and i make mistakes. just because i get punished doesn't mean i'm willfully disobedient or disrespectful.

I have never once stated or implied that you (or indeed anyone else on this board) is willfully disobedient or overtly disrespectful.

just because i get punished doesn't mean i'm willfully disobedient or disrespectful.

Correct. What it means is that Phoenix employs a different standard for punishment than I do.

no matter how hard i try there are going to be times that i displease Master, it makes me human. and if you can honestly say that the women you've been with have never displeased you, or you've never had to give them any form of 'correction' i'm just not sure i could take you seriously because to me that is like saying they are perfect and never mess up. but of course this is my opinion.

If you are sincerely interested in understanding my point of view on this subject, please read posts 53 and 61, above.

 

[JMohegan]

LOL, no message apart from the afact your posting style has of late become more and more Pure like and one has to wonder given the number of people who sometimes assume an alt to post under. Given Pure and we have had many bad and good times, more good than bad, I would consider it a compliment of sorts if you are indeed not one in the same or a long lost twin.

I am neither.

Out of curiosity, what does "Pure like" mean to you?

 

[Kailey_86]

i feel like this thread is going in circles here. The same thing keeps getting said over and over again. i see this so much on these boards. People have differing opinions but instead of just stating them and leaving it there, others feel the need to tell them that they are wrong. Then everyone gets into trying to defend themselves.

i would like to sum up this thread. Some people use punishment in their relationship. Others don't. Each individual knows the reasons for why it is or is not used. Something that is punishment for one person may not be for another. Punishment can be used in play or as a teaching method. Certain kinds of behavior might indicate willful disobedience for one where it wouldn't for another. This kind of disobedience might be terms for ending (or never starting) a relations or it might just require a punishment to "fix" the problem.

IMO, everything depends on the circumstances, the individuals involved, and the dynamics of the relationship. To me, this looks like a typical case of TO EACH THEIR OWN. Say what YOU do....everyone else accept it as THAT individual's PERSONAL opinion.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I will try to resolve your confusion. But Rose, you and I don't have such a great track record communicating on this board. I am willing to take 50/50 responsibility for our failure to communicate, but what I am *not* willing to do is to go multiple rounds on the same subject with you any more. If we can not reach common understanding in a relatively short period of time, we are just going to have to agree to misunderstand one another and move on.

From the beginning of our exchanges on this subject, I have always understood that his comments about punishment that "has to be done" applied *solely* to your relationship.

I have never assumed, stated, or implied that Phoenix was making assertions about any relationship other than yours.

What I was asking on the abuse thread was why he chooses to incorporate corporal punishment into his own relationship if he does not like to do it, and why he feels as if corporal punishment "has to be done" in a relationship with you.

My partners have neither been willfully disobedient nor overtly disrespectful. That is correct.

I have never once stated or implied that you (or indeed anyone else on this board) is willfully disobedient or overtly disrespectful.

Correct. What it means is that Phoenix employs a different standard for punishment than I do.

If you are sincerely interested in understanding my point of view on this subject, please read posts 53 and 61, above.

i agree, we do not have a very good track record on this board with agreeing with each other and i too will take 50% of the blame for that because i don't ever really understand what it is you are trying to say, however, you did explain a little better in this post, thank you for that. and now i think i've answered the question as to why He does something He doesn't want to do with my post above about it serving 2 needs....hopefully anyway....

 

[catalina_francisco]

i feel like this thread is going in circles here. The same thing keeps getting said over and over again. i see this so much on these boards. People have differing opinions but instead of just stating them and leaving it there, others feel the need to tell them that they are wrong. Then everyone gets into trying to defend themselves.

i would like to sum up this thread. Some people use punishment in their relationship. Others don't. Each individual knows the reasons for why it is or is not used. Something that is punishment for one person may not be for another. Punishment can be used in play or as a teaching method. Certain kinds of behavior might indicate willful disobedience for one where it wouldn't for another. This kind of disobedience might be terms for ending (or never starting) a relations or it might just require a punishment to "fix" the problem.

IMO, everything depends on the circumstances, the individuals involved, and the dynamics of the relationship. To me, this looks like a typical case of TO EACH THEIR OWN. Say what YOU do....everyone else accept it as THAT individual's PERSONAL opinion.

LOL, so in future we should end each thread at page one with a brief summary of the varying positions presented?!! Won't make much of a discussion forum that way I suspect. I actually am one for discussion which moves beyond the brief one post per customer type mode as it then allows others to understand each other and their reality more than just saying I do this, you do that, and so let's move on. As has been said in various threads before today, no-one forces anyone to participate if they feel they have nothing more to offer the discussion, so why should anyone try and silence the discussion of others based on their own wishes to not continue?

Catalina

 

[Kailey_86]

LOL, so in future we should end each thread at page one with a brief summary of the varying positions presented?!! Won't make much of a discussion forum that way I suspect. I actually am one for discussion which moves beyond the brief one post per customer type mode as it then allows others to understand each other and their reality more than just saying I do this, you do that, and so let's move on. As has been said in various threads before today, no-one forces anyone to participate if they feel they have nothing more to offer the discussion, so why should anyone try and silence the discussion of others based on their own wishes to not continue?

Catalina

i'm not trying to silence the discussion. i just think that everyone is saying the same thing over and over again. People don't seem to understand what IN MY OPINION means. i'm sort of in a nasty mood today and i might be taking it out in the wrong place. Sorry 'bout that.

 

[FluteMaster]

i'm not trying to silence the discussion. i just think that everyone is saying the same thing over and over again. People don't seem to understand what IN MY OPINION means. i'm sort of in a nasty mood today and i might be taking it out in the wrong place. Sorry 'bout that.

Actually Kailey, I agree with your point that have been a number of threads where people seem to be re-hashing not only the same comments on one thread, but also similar arguments on other threads. I have to admire your patience if it takes you to feel in a sort of nasty mood before you point that out to all and sundry.

Personally, I have found most of the thread interesting - but that is because where I see a long post with whole chunks quoted and then dissected - my eyes glaze over and I slide on by.

What I have found interesting in the reasons how and why different submissives approach the idea of punishment with different frames of mind.

As a Dominant, I have my own attitudes and uses for punishment - but as a dominant I believe it is important that I understand the mind and motivations of any submissive who puts herself into my care. So, to all those who have posted and explained their viewpoints, I want want to say thank you. Your comments have taught me a lot and helped me to grow in my own learning as a dominant.

 

[JMohegan]

i agree, we do not have a very good track record on this board with agreeing with each other and i too will take 50% of the blame for that because i don't ever really understand what it is you are trying to say, however, you did explain a little better in this post, thank you for that. and now i think i've answered the question as to why He does something He doesn't want to do with my post above about it serving 2 needs....hopefully anyway....

You're welcome, and thank you for your comments here.

As for the question of why he does something he does not like, Phoenix himself addressed it in post 62:

What I am saying is that there are times when she slips away from her place, and needs something to be a jolting reminder. For us that happens to be a riding crop across the ass, as it gets her attention quick and lets her know that the behaviour in question is not pleasing to me. We then go from there as I teach her correct behaviour that is pleasing.

He is describing punishment that serves the purpose of behavior modification, and this is an excellent example to use in explaining our different perspectives on punishment.

My relationships have each begun with a typical dating and getting to know each other phase, followed by a more romantic and exploring the possibility of D/s phase, followed by the committed, established D/s phase itself.

If a woman's pattern of behavior is not pleasing to me, then our time together is most likely not going to move past that first phase and definitely not past the second. I am simply not interested in training for the purpose of behavior modification. It's as simple as that.

This is not the same thing as saying that the behavior of a partner in the D/s phase never annoys or irritates me. In a great relationship, this happens very rarely because she becomes wonderfully adept at reading my moods. But no matter how wonderful the relationship, it is still a union between two human beings and as such there will always be moments of irritation or displeasure.

But when she says or does something I don't like, I tell her to stop. And she stops. There are no tears and there is no need for "closure" or "recompense" because the entire incident just hasn't been a big deal for either of us.

 

[JMohegan]

As a Dominant, I have my own attitudes and uses for punishment - but as a dominant I believe it is important that I understand the mind and motivations of any submissive who puts herself into my care.

I agree, but would go a step farther and say that it is critical to understand the mind and motivations of a submissive *before* she puts herself in my care.

There is no intellect, no charm, no wit, no talent, no skill, no grace, and no beauty that can make up for a mismatch of needs.

If she needs something that I am unwilling or unable to provide, then the demise of the relationship will simply be a matter of time.

 

[intothewoods]

I agree, but would go a step farther and say that it is critical to understand the mind and motivations of a submissive *before* she puts herself in my care.

Well, it's a bit of a dance, isn't it? Otherwise I'm envisioning a horribly formal interview process.

 

[FluteMaster]

I agree, but would go a step farther and say that it is critical to understand the mind and motivations of a submissive *before* she puts herself in my care.

There is no intellect, no charm, no wit, no talent, no skill, no grace, and no beauty that can make up for a mismatch of needs.

If she needs something that I am unwilling or unable to provide, then the demise of the relationship will simply be a matter of time.

That would be true IF

a) One had perfect knowledge
b) One's submissive had perfect knowledge

Everything is a learning process. Obviously if there was a significant mismatch of needs before one become serious about the D/s stage, then a mutual "Thanks but Nothanks" would be appropriate.

But the fun, the joy of D/s is the getting to know one another - mutually.

Maybe we see things differently, but I sense that for you this is a once off "we know agree therefore let's do it" relationship.

But for me, there will always be further exploration and understanding, a softening and expanding of limits, both mine and their's. And with that, there may be reasons for me to apply different skills and different approaches.

In addition, I also love to write about D/s (shameless plug for the link below in my Sig ). What I have learned is just how diverse the motivations there are for D/s on both sides, and how complex the interplay. We are complex beings anyway, and this area just confirms that.

And finally, I have, in my own small way, been someone who has sometimes helped to clarify for people what is happening for them in D/s terms. In this way they are not my submissive, but they are most definitley under my care. So, the better my understanding of what may be happening, the better I can be at teasing out what may be happening for a particular person.

I suppose I just love learning about people.

 

[FluteMaster]

Well, it's a bit of a dance, isn't it? Otherwise I'm envisioning a horribly formal interview process.

Fair point, and what room is there for further development?

I so much more prefer mutual ongoing exploration.

 

[JMohegan]

Well, it's a bit of a dance, isn't it? Otherwise I'm envisioning a horribly formal interview process.

Yes, it's a dance. That's a great way to describe it.

Maybe we see things differently, but I sense that for you this is a once off "we know agree therefore let's do it" relationship.

I'm not so sure we see things differently. It is possible that we are simply describing the same process in a different way, or perhaps with a different sense of the timing involved.

For example, FluteMaster, if I asked about the average length of time between your first date with a submissive and the day on which you extended an offer of a committed D/s relationship to her, what would your answer be?

 

[catalina_francisco]

That would be true IF

a) One had perfect knowledge
b) One's submissive had perfect knowledge

Everything is a learning process. Obviously if there was a significant mismatch of needs before one become serious about the D/s stage, then a mutual "Thanks but Nothanks" would be appropriate.

But the fun, the joy of D/s is the getting to know one another - mutually.

Maybe we see things differently, but I sense that for you this is a once off "we know agree therefore let's do it" relationship.

But for me, there will always be further exploration and understanding, a softening and expanding of limits, both mine and their's. And with that, there may be reasons for me to apply different skills and different approaches.

In addition, I also love to write about D/s (shameless plug for the link below in my Sig ). What I have learned is just how diverse the motivations there are for D/s on both sides, and how complex the interplay. We are complex beings anyway, and this area just confirms that.

And finally, I have, in my own small way, been someone who has sometimes helped to clarify for people what is happening for them in D/s terms. In this way they are not my submissive, but they are most definitley under my care. So, the better my understanding of what may be happening, the better I can be at teasing out what may be happening for a particular person.

I suppose I just love learning about people.

I have to agree. If we had followed JM's formula for success, we would never have ventured into our relationship and the bliss we enjoy 4 1/2 years into it 24/7. There were things he wanted/needed which were not to my liking, and there were things which fascinated or interested me enough to want/need them which he felt were never going to be his cup of tea. As the relationship developed, our needs grew, we both found we could see the value in those things each othe previously had held as difference, and now find we enjoy or don't enjoy them equally. If it had been a matter of not getting together because there were things on each other's list neither of us could imagine ever doing or wanting to explore, then we would have missed the relationship of a lifetime. I think as much as there are areas everyone knows attracts or interests them, there are also some which can surprise simply because you find the right someone to make them appealing for the first time in your lives. I love the idea that even at this age, I still can grow and explore new things within a relationship and not be so set in my ways, or he in his, that exploration is out of the question and predictability high on the menu.

Catalina

 

[intothewoods]

I have to agree. If we had followed JM's formula for success, we would never have ventured into our relationship and the bliss we enjoy 4 1/2 years into it 24/7. There were things he wanted/needed which were not to my liking, and there were things which fascinated or interested me enough to want/need them which he felt were never going to be his cup of tea. As the relationship developed, our needs grew, we both found we could see the value in those things each othe previously had held as difference, and now find we enjoy or don't enjoy them equally. If it had been a matter of not getting together because there were things on each other's list neither of us could imagine ever doing or wanting to explore, then we would have missed the relationship of a lifetime. I think as much as there are areas everyone knows attracts or interests them, there are also some which can surprise simply because you find the right someone to make them appealing for the first time in your lives. I love the idea that even at this age, I still can grow and explore new things within a relationship and not be so set in my ways, or he in his, that exploration is out of the question and predictability high on the menu.

Catalina

I could not agree more! I was completely surpised to find myself fantasizing about things I had thought would never be a turn on. I've always thought, well, sex isn't politically correct, but it also isn't mathematically precise.

 

[JMohegan]

I have to agree. If we had followed JM's formula for success, we would never have ventured into our relationship and the bliss we enjoy 4 1/2 years into it 24/7. There were things he wanted/needed which were not to my liking, and there were things which fascinated or interested me enough to want/need them which he felt were never going to be his cup of tea. As the relationship developed, our needs grew, we both found we could see the value in those things each othe previously had held as difference, and now find we enjoy or don't enjoy them equally. If it had been a matter of not getting together because there were things on each other's list neither of us could imagine ever doing or wanting to explore, then we would have missed the relationship of a lifetime. I think as much as there are areas everyone knows attracts or interests them, there are also some which can surprise simply because you find the right someone to make them appealing for the first time in your lives. I love the idea that even at this age, I still can grow and explore new things within a relationship and not be so set in my ways, or he in his, that exploration is out of the question and predictability high on the menu.

You have altered the meaning of my post, Catalina.

The phrase I used was "mismatch of needs".

Not wants. Not desires. Not list of things to enjoy.

Needs.


"JM's formula for success" is remarkably similar to F's.... at least as you described it in this post:

When I entered TPE, I was made to think long and hard. I offered it up as the gift I saw it...he refused it until he was satisfied I REALLY knew what I was doing, where it could lead, and the infinity of it. Part of what he did apart from telling me to think, was highlight how he could do things in the future which at that time he would never do and was not interested in and that it was not safe for me to think 'oh yeah I know, but you won't' because he just might....and he has. His strength in resisting the temptation to take what was so easily offered to ensure my happiness with the arrangement for longer than a minute, not only did make me stop and think, but also increased my trust in him and his character. Those are the things which I think really show you who a person is deep inside and which are why I can say I know him and do not see myself being shocked by some secret of his in the future.

 

[Marquis]

Lots of good stuff in this thread, it's a topic I'm interested in so I may have to go back and give a more elaborate response later, but for now I'll just keep it really simple.

I'm not sure what you would call what I do, but this is what I do that I think could possibly describe punishment.

Mostly I punish knee jerk reactions that I want to iron out. The most common one is plain old rudeness in tone, speech or body language. Spankings work well as reminders and I've also come to use time outs pretty frequently.

My sub will speak to me in a way I don't like, I'll tell her to lie on the floor with her hands behind her back and I'll place a kitchen timer in front of her with the amount of time I find appropriate for the offense. Usually 3, 5 or 10 minutes.

If nothing else, it usually settles her temper and gives me a bit of a jolly.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Actually Kailey, I agree with your point that have been a number of threads where people seem to be re-hashing not only the same comments on one thread, but also similar arguments on other threads. I have to admire your patience if it takes you to feel in a sort of nasty mood before you point that out to all and sundry.

Hang out for another 6 months without losing it over this particular topic's repetition. The board has a combination of r/l, cyber, and combinations of the two. You haven't seen anything until disagreements over "real" D/s start flying.