Question about the nature of your identity

[neonflux]

I hope nobody minds if I grouch a bit here. Personally, I don't like the "a collar is the same as a wedding ring" or "a collar means more than a wedding ring" idea. Speaking as somebody who cannot get legally married, to me a wedding ring means a whole helluva lot more than a collar. I guess it's jealousy to an extent - most people who say "it's more important than a ring" do have the ability to get married if they want to, so they have the luxury of determining what is more important to them personally. But from my perspective, a collar has exactly the same amount of legal importance as the rings my wife and I wear - which is to say, none at all. It's all very well and good to be so in love and feel that your D/s status is more important than your marital status, but when push comes to shove you still have the option of visiting your Dom if he's in the hospital, or getting health insurance for your sub if she doesn't have a job. All you have to do is get married. I wish more straight people would realize what a luxury that is to be able to take care of each other that way. I'm thrilled for people who put the same amount of importance on a collar that they do on a wedding ring, but the fact is they are just not the same thing and cannot ever be.

(The above is admittedly emotional, and I can see the other side of the coin. I'm just cranky that my wife and I can't get married, is all.)

Etoile, I don't mind, and I don't think it's a grouch. Unfortunately, I think that it's reality - there are legal benefits - seeing each other in the hospital, inheritance rights, protectin of one's children/parental rights to name a few - that collars and "jumping the broom" don't provide.

OK, now let me try to think of a bright side - the fact that my ex of over 10 years and I weren't allowed to marry made the break-up much easier (my kink partner is going through a divorce right now and even though they are treating each other decently, every legal step clearly hurts him - she was the one who broke up...)

OK, that's still not a great advantage. Thank you for sharing your feelings on this. It was well said...

Neon

 

[Shankara20]

(The above is admittedly emotional, and I can see the other side of the coin. I'm just cranky that my wife and I can't get married, is all.)

Thanks for reminding everyone. I'm glad you spoke about your feelings.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Do you find that, when it somes to Dom or Sub, you are definitely one or the other, or do you switch between the two?

I don't switch between the two roles. I will, from time to time, bottom in a scene to an experienced Top or Dom to learn a new technique or toy. But with those who I am in a relationnship with, I will be the Dominant/Master. I have no desire to submit, I am a sadist, not a masochist, and while I really enjoy being the generous, kind ruler, the emphasis is on the RULER part...

 

[Netzach]

I hope nobody minds if I grouch a bit here. Personally, I don't like the "a collar is the same as a wedding ring" or "a collar means more than a wedding ring" idea. Speaking as somebody who cannot get legally married, to me a wedding ring means a whole helluva lot more than a collar. I guess it's jealousy to an extent - most people who say "it's more important than a ring" do have the ability to get married if they want to, so they have the luxury of determining what is more important to them personally. But from my perspective, a collar has exactly the same amount of legal importance as the rings my wife and I wear - which is to say, none at all. It's all very well and good to be so in love and feel that your D/s status is more important than your marital status, but when push comes to shove you still have the option of visiting your Dom if he's in the hospital, or getting health insurance for your sub if she doesn't have a job. All you have to do is get married. I wish more straight people would realize what a luxury that is to be able to take care of each other that way. I'm thrilled for people who put the same amount of importance on a collar that they do on a wedding ring, but the fact is they are just not the same thing and cannot ever be.

(The above is admittedly emotional, and I can see the other side of the coin. I'm just cranky that my wife and I can't get married, is all.)

I have faith that eventually we will catch up with the rest of the civilized world, peer pressure will drag us kicking and screaming into the actual year 20 whatever it will be.

I don't make M wear a collar because, frankly, it would look really really stupid on a clean and metro kind of guy who doesn't wear jewelry of any sort. I think he's much more attached to his than I am to mine - I think it's come off once in three years. I love mine, don't get me wrong, but really it's a piece of stainless and a shiny rock - the relationship is defined by other stuff.

As pretty much non-religious bi people we'd prefer the option of being able to be civilly unionized, actually. I only warmed to the idea of getting married when a lot of my queer friends were doing it and getting lawyers to cover all the shit that can be covered, creating a more-or-less marriage like contract. (the world was less hostile actually, about 10 years ago amd you could cobble together a tight legal arrangment and share bennies more often in my state)

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I hope nobody minds if I grouch a bit here. Personally, I don't like the "a collar is the same as a wedding ring" or "a collar means more than a wedding ring" idea. Speaking as somebody who cannot get legally married, to me a wedding ring means a whole helluva lot more than a collar. I guess it's jealousy to an extent - most people who say "it's more important than a ring" do have the ability to get married if they want to, so they have the luxury of determining what is more important to them personally. But from my perspective, a collar has exactly the same amount of legal importance as the rings my wife and I wear - which is to say, none at all. It's all very well and good to be so in love and feel that your D/s status is more important than your marital status, but when push comes to shove you still have the option of visiting your Dom if he's in the hospital, or getting health insurance for your sub if she doesn't have a job. All you have to do is get married. I wish more straight people would realize what a luxury that is to be able to take care of each other that way. I'm thrilled for people who put the same amount of importance on a collar that they do on a wedding ring, but the fact is they are just not the same thing and cannot ever be.

(The above is admittedly emotional, and I can see the other side of the coin. I'm just cranky that my wife and I can't get married, is all.)

i do understand what you're saying. but my Collar honestly is to me like a 'ring' would be. and i'm terribly sorry that you cannot marry the one you love. i am a firm believer that any two people who are in love should be 'allowed' to marry reguardless of their gender. i do realize a wedding ring and a collar are not the same and what i posted was not meant to say that they are the SAME. i simply meant, the comittment behind them mean the same thing to me and that i take Him collaring me with the same level of comittment as if He had put a ring on my finger. does this make sense??

also i want to add that i didn't mean the collar has ANY LEGAL importance, because it doesn't.....and before i become redunant i will end it here, i just wanted to put this in here.

 

[MasterSnatch]

For myself the thought of being anything other than a dom makes me sick to my stomach, you can attribute that to being a Leo or whatever you wish but I've always viewed men as being the ones that should have mastery or control over a female. Now that's not true for everyone by any stretch of the imatination but it is simply how I feel about the matter. I very much appreciate the submissive or slave aspect of a female but that is because for me it's how it should be in a woman with the guy teaching her how to properly know her place in the world. This however can NOT happen without trust nor faith in each other, if it's not there it will end badly. There has to be respect for one another, of what the other is.

 

[Netzach]

For myself the thought of being anything other than a dom makes me sick to my stomach, you can attribute that to being a Leo or whatever you wish but I've always viewed men as being the ones that should have mastery or control over a female. Now that's not true for everyone by any stretch of the imatination but it is simply how I feel about the matter. I very much appreciate the submissive or slave aspect of a female but that is because for me it's how it should be in a woman with the guy teaching her how to properly know her place in the world. This however can NOT happen without trust nor faith in each other, if it's not there it will end badly. There has to be respect for one another, of what the other is.

Like you said, it's your world, you can arrange it how you want, but I'm honestly asking this question because I don't get it. And you're not the first person I've seen express this sentiment, so I'm sorry if it puts you on the spot.

When someone says "I think about submitting and I get sick" but then talks about how they respect submissives I've always had trouble understanding that. If "submitting" is nauseating or beneath you, how is it that a submissive isn't supposed to think that's how you actually see her?

Submitting's not my thing. It's not where I'm at. It's not healthy for me or right for me. But I don't get the urge to hurl, I don't find it *disgusting* I guess.

 

[MasterSnatch]

Like you said, it's your world, you can arrange it how you want, but I'm honestly asking this question because I don't get it. And you're not the first person I've seen express this sentiment, so I'm sorry if it puts you on the spot.

When someone says "I think about submitting and I get sick" but then talks about how they respect submissives I've always had trouble understanding that. If "submitting" is nauseating or beneath you, how is it that a submissive isn't supposed to think that's how you actually see her?

Submitting's not my thing. It's not where I'm at. It's not healthy for me or right for me. But I don't get the urge to hurl, I don't find it *disgusting* I guess.

For me submitting is beneath me and a crime against my very nature, it goes against everything I'am and should anyone ever try to act otherwise towards me I'd likely turn on them quickly enough. I can not begin to fathom in myself how to be submissive, the very notion escapes me and is ludicrous at best. It's an insult in itself.

Now that is not to say I can not understand how others can be submissive and act out that way of life. I have always been able to see and know why a person is the way they are after hearing what they got to say, how they feel about matters or think on a subject. The more I know about them the better I'm able to get a grasp of who they are and in turn able to turn that to my benefit in dealing with them.

To me the other person simply should be submissive, it is who they are. They should know this and if they do not I shall help teach and educate them on who they really are in this life. I can respect a person for being submissive but again the notion of ever attempting to live that life style makes me ill and repulsed in every way possible.

 

[Soumis]

Like you said, it's your world, you can arrange it how you want, but I'm honestly asking this question because I don't get it. And you're not the first person I've seen express this sentiment, so I'm sorry if it puts you on the spot.

When someone says "I think about submitting and I get sick" but then talks about how they respect submissives I've always had trouble understanding that. If "submitting" is nauseating or beneath you, how is it that a submissive isn't supposed to think that's how you actually see her?

Submitting's not my thing. It's not where I'm at. It's not healthy for me or right for me. But I don't get the urge to hurl, I don't find it *disgusting* I guess.

Thanks, Netzach. I've felt uncomfortable around certain people in the scene with this attitude and never nailed down exactly why, which you did in your post.

When I have met a Dom or Domme who thinks submitting is beneath them at a munch or a party, I have been put off by them generally. It's more than thinking that the Dom or Domme in question thinks less of me for being submissive. When I meet people with this attitude I honestly think scening with them is not safe. I do not trust Tops who want to play me without having tried their floggers, toys, etc on themselves. This attitude (for better or for worse) also makes me think that a Top will be less receptive when it comes to learning from others within the scene be they Tops or bottoms. I don't think I'm putting this very well, so I'll wrap it up. If I have to question whether or not a Top respects me, I probably won't bother questioning whether they can respect me once I'm tied and blindfolded at their mercy.

 

[Netzach]

Thanks, Netzach. I've felt uncomfortable around certain people in the scene with this attitude and never nailed down exactly why, which you did in your post.

When I have met a Dom or Domme who thinks submitting is beneath them at a munch or a party, I have been put off by them generally. It's more than thinking that the Dom or Domme in question thinks less of me for being submissive. When I meet people with this attitude I honestly think scening with them is not safe. I do not trust Tops who want to play me without having tried their floggers, toys, etc on themselves. This attitude (for better or for worse) also makes me think that a Top will be less receptive when it comes to learning from others within the scene be they Tops or bottoms. I don't think I'm putting this very well, so I'll wrap it up. If I have to question whether or not a Top respects me, I probably won't bother questioning whether they can respect me once I'm tied and blindfolded at their mercy.

I've always felt similarly. I'll be honest, that I began very young in the scene, and not really self-aware and not sure where I clocked in. I've spent time on both sides of the boots and wearing them gets me excited and stoked and wet while licking them just had some naughty and out there "novelty" for a short while, at best. Attempts to more seriously submit had no productive or happy end result and life is too short to make yourself suffer over and over so you can say you're versatile and open minded. If it's a question of being born with the tendency, and we just land where we land, and being a Domme is like having dark eyes, honestly there's really no BFD about it. I've always related really well with femsubs even though I don't grok y'all's thing too well.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

I hope nobody minds if I grouch a bit here. Personally, I don't like the "a collar is the same as a wedding ring" or "a collar means more than a wedding ring" idea. Speaking as somebody who cannot get legally married, to me a wedding ring means a whole helluva lot more than a collar. I guess it's jealousy to an extent - most people who say "it's more important than a ring" do have the ability to get married if they want to, so they have the luxury of determining what is more important to them personally. But from my perspective, a collar has exactly the same amount of legal importance as the rings my wife and I wear - which is to say, none at all. It's all very well and good to be so in love and feel that your D/s status is more important than your marital status, but when push comes to shove you still have the option of visiting your Dom if he's in the hospital, or getting health insurance for your sub if she doesn't have a job. All you have to do is get married. I wish more straight people would realize what a luxury that is to be able to take care of each other that way. I'm thrilled for people who put the same amount of importance on a collar that they do on a wedding ring, but the fact is they are just not the same thing and cannot ever be.

(The above is admittedly emotional, and I can see the other side of the coin. I'm just cranky that my wife and I can't get married, is all.)

I truly hope that there comes a day soon when your wife & you can get married.

PLease understand what My little one was saying. She was saying that she and I could not be any more committed to one another had we put rings on our fingers. We know it does not give us legal rights....

 

[FluteMaster]

For me submitting is beneath me and a crime against my very nature, it goes against everything I'am and should anyone ever try to act otherwise towards me I'd likely turn on them quickly enough. I can not begin to fathom in myself how to be submissive, the very notion escapes me and is ludicrous at best. It's an insult in itself.

Now that is not to say I can not understand how others can be submissive and act out that way of life. I have always been able to see and know why a person is the way they are after hearing what they got to say, how they feel about matters or think on a subject. The more I know about them the better I'm able to get a grasp of who they are and in turn able to turn that to my benefit in dealing with them.

To me the other person simply should be submissive, it is who they are. They should know this and if they do not I shall help teach and educate them on who they really are in this life. I can respect a person for being submissive but again the notion of ever attempting to live that life style makes me ill and repulsed in every way possible.

Mastersnatch, I am intruiged bythe intensity (dare I say anger?) of your comments.

Like you, I consider myself a Dom by nature, and cannot consider myself as a Submissive sexually. Or rather, I cannot consider myself as a Submissive in the way I look for one for myself. In some ways, thugh, I can be submissive, if by that you mean supporting, seeking to bring pleasure, deferring my own desires. So, emotionally I would claim to have some (even though I don't always express them) submissive desires. It is this which allows me to value the incredible gift that a submssive offers, that of taking her deepest self and desires and placing them in another's hands in trust that her Master will always respect her needs as she serves His. (Apologies here for the non inclusive language if it offends - I do assume that this isn't gender specific).

Maybe if you were less intense, your comments would be more easily heard. I would not say that the idea of being a subissive makes me ill. I would just say that I cannot find within me any desire to be that role for my pleasure. In the same way that I am strongly heterosexual, and cannot find within me any desire to experience sex with a man.

Of course, I also suspect that our styles of "Domming" will appeal to different submissives.

Over to you Mastersnatch

 

[s_red830]

Thanks, Netzach. I've felt uncomfortable around certain people in the scene with this attitude and never nailed down exactly why, which you did in your post.

When I have met a Dom or Domme who thinks submitting is beneath them at a munch or a party, I have been put off by them generally. It's more than thinking that the Dom or Domme in question thinks less of me for being submissive. When I meet people with this attitude I honestly think scening with them is not safe. I do not trust Tops who want to play me without having tried their floggers, toys, etc on themselves. This attitude (for better or for worse) also makes me think that a Top will be less receptive when it comes to learning from others within the scene be they Tops or bottoms. I don't think I'm putting this very well, so I'll wrap it up. If I have to question whether or not a Top respects me, I probably won't bother questioning whether they can respect me once I'm tied and blindfolded at their mercy.

That part about the floggers is interesting, mostly because I don't know if I could do that. Submitting is not in any way beneath me, but when I do so (or at least the times when I can remember doing so) I feel violated, and that's really not fun. So from another point of view, I definitely respect submissives and try to understand them as much as possible, but for personal reasons just really couldn't flip the coin.

I should add that my hesitance to submit is pretty much only for sexual purposes... I'm not too uncomfortable submitting emotionally, even though I prefer dominance.

 

[Soumis]

That part about the floggers is interesting, mostly because I don't know if I could do that. Submitting is not in any way beneath me, but when I do so (or at least the times when I can remember doing so) I feel violated, and that's really not fun. So from another point of view, I definitely respect submissives and try to understand them as much as possible, but for personal reasons just really couldn't flip the coin.

I should add that my hesitance to submit is pretty much only for sexual purposes... I'm not too uncomfortable submitting emotionally, even though I prefer dominance.

I should probably clarify that flogger bit. For a Dom or Domme to experience their own toys I don't neccessarily think they are submitting. Are they on bottom? Perhaps, but are they submitting? Not always. Swishing a flogger against your arm to feel the weight of it's one thing, but for new toys and particularly ones you arn't familiar with, I really think it's best to let someone else put their weight behind it. In other words, it's a little bothersome when a Dom or Domme tries a violet wand on a non-genital area of their body and then thinks they have a good idea of how it will feel on a nipple.

 

[s_red830]

I should probably clarify that flogger bit. For a Dom or Domme to experience their own toys I don't neccessarily think they are submitting. Are they on bottom? Perhaps, but are they submitting? Not always. Swishing a flogger against your arm to feel the weight of it's one thing, but for new toys and particularly ones you arn't familiar with, I really think it's best to let someone else put their weight behind it. In other words, it's a little bothersome when a Dom or Domme tries a violet wand on a non-genital area of their body and then thinks they have a good idea of how it will feel on a nipple.

Ah, I understand better. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Netzach]

That part about the floggers is interesting, mostly because I don't know if I could do that. Submitting is not in any way beneath me, but when I do so (or at least the times when I can remember doing so) I feel violated, and that's really not fun. So from another point of view, I definitely respect submissives and try to understand them as much as possible, but for personal reasons just really couldn't flip the coin.

I should add that my hesitance to submit is pretty much only for sexual purposes... I'm not too uncomfortable submitting emotionally, even though I prefer dominance.

I've spoken with Dominants, male and female, who have told me about rape and abuse in their past, or even a flashback-like experience of feeling violated without that kind of incident in their background - and I think this is a pretty valid reason to take yourself out of the running for things.

Most of them express also the sentiment that they sort of wish they had avenues open to them that just aren't.

I'm very old school about this idea in a lot of ways though. I do believe that it's not the ONLY way to be a good Dominant, submitting and bottoming first, but I believe based on my experiences and observations that it's the best way for the vast majority of people, including a lot who are totally opposed to it, probably.

It's not necessarily fun and pleasureable for the person doing it. That's fine, I believe I have more of the *right* to demand and to train and to lead having undergone these things, which weren't especially great, though not necessarily traumatic.

I don't think that everything has to "feel good" but you're right, traumatizing yourself in the interest of learning and feeling well-rounded isn't a really viable option! I have a very limited zone in which it's "healthy" to submit and I've done it enough to know just where those borders are. This has actually helped me immensely with my boundaries outside the sexual arena, too.

 

[s_red830]

It's not necessarily fun and pleasureable for the person doing it. That's fine, I believe I have more of the *right* to demand and to train and to lead having undergone these things, which weren't especially great, though not necessarily traumatic.

I don't think that everything has to "feel good" but you're right, traumatizing yourself in the interest of learning and feeling well-rounded isn't a really viable option! I have a very limited zone in which it's "healthy" to submit and I've done it enough to know just where those borders are. This has actually helped me immensely with my boundaries outside the sexual arena, too.

That's an interesting idea... that you feel you are more justified and confident in demanding certain things of your sub that you have experience with (however much that may be). It makes sense...

If I ever get into a relationship with someone where enough trust builds, I'll probably end up exploring some subbiness, mostly because I agree--it's hard to understand something without experiencing it yourself. Also, the fact that it helped you with boundaries "outside the sexual arena" is encouraging, because that's something I would definitely like to fix up a bit.

Maybe one day!

Is there a thread about PYLs subbing? I would search for it, but I have no idea what I'd put in the search box...

 

[Bredon]

Netzach and Red--

I agree to a degree *lol* I'm a bit like you, red, the mere thought makes me squirm, and not in a good way. I have a good female friend who is a dom, and she learned her stuff from submitting to an experienced dom, and I understand that that is a good way to learn things. I can imagine subb'ing to her, because I know her very well and trust her. But it would be a 100% technical thing-- just as I have tried a dildo on myself, but have no fun from getting fucked- just to see how it feels in certain parts, to get a picture "from the inside" -- same way I would let someone hit me (but gently!! ) etc.
It's also interesting, that while I have a desire to only dom boys, I'd never be able to submit to one-- and that's 100% I think. I *might* be able to submit to a femmy woman. Which is exactly the group of people that I'm least attracted to-- weird...
The problem is that I have zero pain tolerance-- I faint from ripping off a plaster I'm always surprised that anyone can enjoy pain, and I feel somewhat guilty that I want to inflict something that seems so ouchy to me.
I'd be interested in the pain tolerance of other doms/sadists... maybe we should start a new thread?

Bredom-- oups Bredon

 

[s_red830]

Netzach and Red--

I agree to a degree *lol* I'm a bit like you, red, the mere thought make me squirm, and not in a good way. I have a good female friend who is a dom, and she learned her stuff from submitting to an experienced dom, and I understand that that is a good way to learn things. I can imagine subb'ing to her, because I know her very well and trust her. But it would be a 100% technical thing-- just as I have tried a dildo on myself, but have no fun from getting fucked- just to see how it feels in certain parts, to get a picture "from the inside" -- some way I would let someone hit me (but gently!! ) etc.
It's also interesting, that I while I have a desireto only dom boys, I'd never be able to submit to one-- and that's 100% I think. I *might* be able to submit to a femmy woman. Which is exactly the group of people that I'm least attracted to-- weird...
The problem is that I have zero pain tolerance-- I faint from ripping off a plaster I'malways surprised tha anyone can enjoy pain, and I feel somewhat guilty that I want to inflict something that seems so ouchy to me.
I'dbe interested in the pain tolerance of other doms/sadists... maybe we should start a new thread?

Bredom-- oups Bredon

Yeah, I suppose I could bottom, but not sub.

And I hear you on the gender-change-thing... I could never imagine myself submitting to a guy either, although right now I prefer domming them. Of course, like everything, this is subject to change.

My last relationship was with a very femmy, somewhat subby girl... there's only so much femminess I can take, lol.

but </tangent>

as for the pain part, I figure that if it's what they want... :shrug: why not?

 

[Netzach]

Netzach and Red--

I agree to a degree *lol* I'm a bit like you, red, the mere thought make me squirm, and not in a good way. I have a good female friend who is a dom, and she learned her stuff from submitting to an experienced dom, and I understand that that is a good way to learn things. I can imagine subb'ing to her, because I know her very well and trust her. But it would be a 100% technical thing-- just as I have tried a dildo on myself, but have no fun from getting fucked- just to see how it feels in certain parts, to get a picture "from the inside" -- some way I would let someone hit me (but gently!! ) etc.
It's also interesting, that I while I have a desireto only dom boys, I'd never be able to submit to one-- and that's 100% I think. I *might* be able to submit to a femmy woman. Which is exactly the group of people that I'm least attracted to-- weird...
The problem is that I have zero pain tolerance-- I faint from ripping off a plaster I'malways surprised tha anyone can enjoy pain, and I feel somewhat guilty that I want to inflict something that seems so ouchy to me.
I'dbe interested in the pain tolerance of other doms/sadists... maybe we should start a new thread?

Bredom-- oups Bredon

My sexually hot puppet universe is one in which all the girly girls and femmy queens are in charge of the butch minions, but I'm ass-backward like that.

I am a big freaking pussy when it comes to pain. Big time. Although I can rise to the occasion a bit when I have to (my GI told me people would have been begging for painkillers in my state when I finally came to him) I go out of my way to avoid it. I did not handle my tattoo well. I do not deal well with getting an IV put in.

Now, that's garden variety pain.

Introduce a little of same while I'm turned on or when I trust the person and admire them a lot or BOTH and you have a genuine mmm potential.

If you had told me this a million times, that I might *like* being spanked let alone having a cute 21 yo girl put a needle into my boob I would have told you to take a flying leap.

I'm still a control nut. I still have been known to say "are you FUCKING NUTS?" and stop a scene amidst a lot of laughter most of all from the dissed Top. But I can't say that I don't have any tolerance or ability to eroticize pain. I think it's something the vast majority of people CAN do and I think it's something more people would TRY out if it wasn't so ingrained in us that "likes pain = submissive"

 

[Nightjak]

I do believe you can be a Dom and still like pain. I'm a Dom and I enjoy pain as mush as my sub; when in the midst of a glorious sex session. Scratches across my back, bite marks on my neck and chest lets you know that what you are doing is taking them to the point where they can no longer hold back. Same thing in a fight: If I'm in the middle of a good brawl and get punched in the face, I revel in it and fight harder, not fall down begging, " Don't hurt me." I use pain as a motivator.

 

[neonflux]

I have been following the new turn in this thread with great interest - not been in much shape to comment until now. My recent experience has taught me that there is a huge difference between subbing and bottoming. I think that as a bottom, one actually can exercise a great deal of control over the exchange, even without getting "sammy." After Sunday, I am very sure that I even have been "bottoming" rather than subbing when following instructions/orders. True subbing is an altogether different experience (and one that I will only do again, if at all, under some very specific circumstances).

If one can do it, I believe that bottoming can be very helpful (subbing was, too - I now have a whole new respect for a PLY's responsibility to her ply). While I know that regular bottoming would never be an option for most Dominants, each time I bottom, I learn more about how to top better, more skillfully.

Bredon, re: a thread on Dom/me tolerance, if you also want to take switches (I know, not really fair), I can stand a lot. Actually, I love it. There's a part of me that gets a very "macho" sense of pride in testing the limits on how much I can endure. After my BDSM cleansing - done by a friend who has been in the scene for a very long time - I had bruises on my fanny that lasted for over a month. (Never gone even 1/10th that far again.)

BTW, I cannot imagine anyone not liking a good flogging done with a thuddy (vs. stingy) flogger - it really is similar to a session of deep tissue massage. One of my fantasies is wearing out the arms of all of the house dom/mes at a local sex club called the Power Exchange, LOL.

Netzach, you wrote "If you had told me this a million times, that I might *like* being spanked let alone having a cute 21 yo girl put a needle into my boob I would have told you to take a flying leap." Can I have one? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

MasterSnatch, when you wrote, "For myself the thought of being anything other than a dom makes me sick to my stomach, you can attribute that to being a Leo or whatever you wish but I've always viewed men as being the ones that should have mastery or control over a female." I don't mean to put you on the spot at all, but am truly curious. Are you still able to respect (different from like or trust) the women who sub for you? And does this attitude also hold for you outside of your sexual/romantic relationships?

Neon

P.S., Netzach - femmes ruling all those butch gals - don't we do that already I've never gotten to really know a butch woman or even boi who wasn't a softy underneath (last said with great affection and respect)

P.P.S, a big femmy to you, red maybe not so much into femmies right now, but would you be willing to top me while I am in drag? ;-)

 

[s_red830]

P.S., Netzach - femmes ruling all those butch gals - don't we do that already I've never gotten to really know a butch woman or even boi who wasn't a softy underneath (last said with great affection and respect)

P.P.S, a big femmy to you, red maybe not so much into femmies right now, but would you be willing to top me while I am in drag? ;-)

Ah, I know so well the power of the femme... lol. Pretty much all of the girls I've dated have been femmes. And yes, we are very much softies. Or at least I am. :accepts femmy and returns it with a chivalrous butch kiss on the hand:

 

[neonflux]

Ah, I know so well the power of the femme... lol. Pretty much all of the girls I've dated have been femmes. And yes, we are very much softies. Or at least I am. :accepts femmy and returns it with a chivalrous butch kiss on the hand:

*blushes* oh, keep meaning to tell you just how much I love your AV - the one time I really had the hots for Julie Andrews!

 

[Etoile]

Thanks to everyone for indulging me in my little rant. I guess I am keeping my fingers crossed that the Dems win the White House in 2008 so we can get back on the road to becoming a civilized nation equivalent to our peers. Massachusetts, New Jersey, and Vermont are making great strides, but until it's federal it doesn't really matter. I just get jealous sometimes of the straight folks.