Question for the author community

[Carnevil9]

We're talking about this site, right? Literotica? Face it, we're giving it away for free here. I would feel nothing but flattered if someone went out of their way to translate my stories for a new audience.

Now, if we were talking about a pay site where this move is taking cash out of my pocket, then I'd be on the phone to my lawyer ASAFP.

 

[BrokenSpokes]

We're talking about this site, right? Literotica? Face it, we're giving it away for free here. I would feel nothing but flattered if someone went out of their way to translate my stories for a new audience.

Now, if we were talking about a pay site where this move is taking cash out of my pocket, then I'd be on the phone to my lawyer ASAFP.

We are posting our stories here for free, but the stories remain OUR intellectual property and the terms of service are clear that authors retain copyright.

 

[HordHolm]

We're talking about this site, right? Literotica? Face it, we're giving it away for free here. I would feel nothing but flattered if someone went out of their way to translate my stories for a new audience.

Now, if we were talking about a pay site where this move is taking cash out of my pocket, then I'd be on the phone to my lawyer ASAFP.

Ah, but how would you feel if it turned out that the translation was a pile of unreadable gash? An enthusiastic amateur is likely to produce a very amateurish translation.

 

[Voboy]

Ah, but how would you feel if it turned out that the translation was a pile of unreadable gash? An enthusiastic amateur is likely to produce a very amateurish translation.

This is my big concern. I wouldn't know whether the translation said anything even close to what I wanted the story to have said.

Seriously, I get that we're offering this stuff for free, and I'm sure a lot of writers on Lit just chuck up any old jumble of words they can produce, but many of us care about language and think about how the words should flow together. We ponder our idioms, our metaphors. We know the differences between verbs, subtle differences a non-fluent speaker might miss.

I'm not fluent in German, for example, but I know enough of it that I'm WELL aware how little I know about how to capture the tone of the language in anything but a dry, academic way. I have to assume the same about English. I don't write dry, academic prose, and I have no faith that some marginally bilingual rando on the internet is going to give a hoot in hell about the subtleties I try to place appropriately into my stories.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Without trying to hijack this, I have another question on which I’d be interested to get fellow authors’ opinions.

I submitted an entry to the Nude Day event, a story which is the fifth in a series. To me, each stands alone, meaning each can be read on its own, that unlike chapters in a book, it is not necessary to have read earlier ones for it to make sense.

I seem to have enraged a certain reader, who is angrily accusing me of ‘breaking the rules’ and going on that he wishes he could give me a minus score for said offence. He seems seriously heated.

Thoughts? Im not losing sleep over this, but would welcome an outside opinion. Thanks.

 

[KeithD]

Erase the comment and move on. There's nothing you can do about whatever he's already done other than erase any comment he's put on the story.

How did he get the idea this wasn't completely standalone? If you alluded to there being other parts yet to come, that shouldn't have been included in a contest piece. But what is done is done. I don't know what you think could be done about it now other than erasing any comment. A reader can vote any number they wish to.

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree with most of this. What Manu and Laurel haven't been clear on is what will happen when people submit stories that infringe on the copyright of commercial properties. @EmilyMiller has recently discovered is that everything Jedi (with the exception of Illustrated) goes into CF&F no matter how much the author wants it to go into SF&F. One of the things I've been thinking about writing is an I/T version of the movie "Hansel and Gretel: Witch Hunters". Total copyright infringement. Would it be published in I/T or CF&F? It's not worth my time if it goes into CF&F.

As for infringing on Literotica stories, the policy I have seen is that the site will publish stories that are derivative of other Literotica stories. If the author asserts their copyright, the derivative work comes down. But the author has to assert their copyright. If BrokenSpokes sends a note to Laurel asking that the translations come down, they'll come down. But she has to send a note to Laurel for it to happen.

If you aren't around to assert your copyright then stories that are derivative of one of your stories will be published if submitted and will remain here until you come back.

You may run into the problem of Hansel and Gretal being children in the original fairly tale. Yes, in witch hunters they're adults, but that's not the original story.

Rule in CF&F is no under age character can be aged up, which is why no Harry Potter fiction is allowed here.

 

[Voboy]

Without trying to hijack this, I have another question on which I’d be interested to get fellow authors’ opinions.

I submitted an entry to the Nude Day event, a story which is the fifth in a series. To me, each stands alone, meaning each can be read on its own, that unlike chapters in a book, it is not necessary to have read earlier ones for it to make sense.

I seem to have enraged a certain reader, who is angrily accusing me of ‘breaking the rules’ and going on that he wishes he could give me a minus score for said offence. He seems seriously heated.

Thoughts? Im not losing sleep over this, but would welcome an outside opinion. Thanks.

Stories loosely linked or related to other stories in a "universe" are fine; all my stories are like that.

Stories in a series are not fine. They're against the rules, because Nude Day is not an "event" but a contest.

You're telling us that this one is "fifth in a series." Even if it's a standalone story (and I'm sure it is), if you added some sort of a disclaimer or foreword that places this story into a series, then I don't blame the reader for being annoyed about it.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

Thoughts? Im not losing sleep over this, but would welcome an outside opinion. Thanks.

Your preface explains that the story is a standalone piece. That meets the criterion in the contest rules: "All submissions must be stand-alone stories created for this contest theme." So my gut reaction is to tell you that it's fine and not to give the comment another thought.

However, there's an additional wrinkle. Your preface goes beyond stating that the story is a standalone piece connected to other standalone stories in the same universe. The preface also gives a (very brief) summary of what has transpired between four characters.

If I were to put myself in the commenter's shoes, I might argue that the story technically isn't a standalone piece if your preface provides background info about the previous entries in the series (even though you explain this background info isn't necessary and you're only providing it to be helpful). Personally, I would never think to raise an objection about something like this, even if I had a story entered in the same contest. Your commenter clearly feels differently.

If you're troubled by the comment, you could consider removing the background info from your preface. Then there would be no question about the story meeting the contest criteria.

 

[Bamagan]

Without trying to hijack this, I have another question on which I’d be interested to get fellow authors’ opinions.

I submitted an entry to the Nude Day event, a story which is the fifth in a series. To me, each stands alone, meaning each can be read on its own, that unlike chapters in a book, it is not necessary to have read earlier ones for it to make sense.

I seem to have enraged a certain reader, who is angrily accusing me of ‘breaking the rules’ and going on that he wishes he could give me a minus score for said offence. He seems seriously heated.

Thoughts? Im not losing sleep over this, but would welcome an outside opinion. Thanks.

Are you asking if we think you broke the rules or not?
Maybe. It sounds like a borderline case, what with the referencing other of your works for background on the current one. But, if you did break the rules, it will only matter if your score is in the top three, and then Laurel (presumably) will get to make the judgement call.

 

[KeithD]

Are you asking if we think you broke the rules or not?
Maybe. It sounds like a borderline case, what with the referencing other of your works for background on the current one. But, if you did break the rules, it will only matter if your score is in the top three, and then Laurel (presumably) will get to make the judgement call.

Laurel made the judgment call when she passed the story through to begin with. She could have rejected it as not being within the contest parameters or she could have knocked off the note. She didn't. I do think that the proslug on this one, putting the story into context with the others, takes it beyond a true standalone story. Having said that, contest adherence is not that big of a deal and rarely is invoked. I saw two comments there relating to this. I'd either leave them or delete them and move on. The vote isn't going to be erased. The voter can downvote on that basis if he/she wishes.

 

[SimonDoom]

Without trying to hijack this, I have another question on which I’d be interested to get fellow authors’ opinions.

I submitted an entry to the Nude Day event, a story which is the fifth in a series. To me, each stands alone, meaning each can be read on its own, that unlike chapters in a book, it is not necessary to have read earlier ones for it to make sense.

I seem to have enraged a certain reader, who is angrily accusing me of ‘breaking the rules’ and going on that he wishes he could give me a minus score for said offence. He seems seriously heated.

Thoughts? Im not losing sleep over this, but would welcome an outside opinion. Thanks.

You shouldn't lose sleep, and I'm not outraged by it, but I think your submission violates the rules. The rule is this:

• All submissions must be stand-alone stories created for this contest theme. We will not accept individual chapters of a larger work submitted separately. If you have a multi-chaptered contest-themed submission, please submit all chapters together as one story submission.

I don't see how your submission does NOT break this rule. On your story submission list, it's clearly numbered 5 in a series of stories. You may personally feel that the story, because of its qualities, can stand alone, but that's not the issue. The fact is that the story IS identified as the fifth chapter in a series, and this means that in terms of score, you are going to benefit from the fact that over time chapters in a series tend to score higher, because there's a certain amount of attrition over time and those readers who stick with the series will tend to be those who are predisposed to like your story. So you have a built-in, and in my opinion unfair, advantage over those who submit their stories as standalone stories. It's irrelevant whether the story, as a narrative, can stand alone. You are potentially reaping the benefit that this rule is intended to prevent. If I were the contest administrator I would strike your story from the contest.

 

[Plathfan]

You shouldn't lose sleep, and I'm not outraged by it, but I think your submission violates the rules. The rule is this:

• All submissions must be stand-alone stories created for this contest theme. We will not accept individual chapters of a larger work submitted separately. If you have a multi-chaptered contest-themed submission, please submit all chapters together as one story submission.

I don't see how your submission does NOT break this rule. On your story submission list, it's clearly numbered 5 in a series of stories. You may personally feel that the story, because of its qualities, can stand alone, but that's not the issue. The fact is that the story IS identified as the fifth chapter in a series, and this means that in terms of score, you are going to benefit from the fact that over time chapters in a series tend to score higher, because there's a certain amount of attrition over time and those readers who stick with the series will tend to be those who are predisposed to like your story. So you have a built-in, and in my opinion unfair, advantage over those who submit their stories as standalone stories. It's irrelevant whether the story, as a narrative, can stand alone. You are potentially reaping the benefit that this rule is intended to prevent. If I were the contest administrator I would strike your story from the contest.

Those are strong points, sir.

ETA: With a slight rearrangement, each chapter can be presented as a stand-alone piece.
Additionally, passers-by are often scolded to be original and not leech off others' work. Yet, it seems some can't let go of their own material and tend to regurgitate it, which is fine but not for a contest.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

It's irrelevant whether the story, as a narrative, can stand alone. You are potentially reaping the benefit that this rule is intended to prevent.

The post I'm making here won't bring any additional value to TP's original question, but I'll just point out that I disagree with two points that you're making here, @SimonDoom.

First, I think it IS relevant that the story can stand alone. Its ability to stand alone is key to satisfying the rule.

Second, I think you're assuming that the rule was meant to prevent a writer from benefitting from the higher scores that typically accompany an entry in a series. I agree that stories connected to a series may well benefit from higher scores, but I don't think we can assume that the intent of the rule was to prevent this benefit.

As I read the rule, its only intent is to prevent an author from breaking up a single story into multiple chapters and submitting each chapter as a separate entry in the contest.

If you have a multi-chaptered contest-themed submission, please submit all chapters together as one story submission.

The rule says, "If you have a multi-chaptered contest-themed submission..."

I interpret "submission" as "story that has yet to be published." The rule is only saying, "hey, if you're working on a submission with a bunch of chapters, make sure to bundle up your chapters into a single submission for this contest."

TP did not have a multi-chaptered contest-themed submission. She had a single, self-contained, contest-themed submission that happened to also connect to other stories that share the same universe and characters. As I read the rule, that isn't a violation. The only violation in my view is the additional information in the prefatory note that prevents the story from completely standing on its own.

Just my two cents. On a separate note, if I were writing the rules with ONLY authors in mind, then in the interest of a level playing field I would probably prohibit entries that have any connection to a previously published story or series of stories.

But as you have pointed out in discussions about the red H and ratings before, @SimonDoom, Literotica considers its readers first. In this case, I think they would be interested in a rule that allows the greatest variety of entries, and I think they would be especially interested in including stories that relate to other stories/series that have already captured the attention of the site's readers.

 

[SimonDoom]

As I read the rule, its only intent is to prevent an author from breaking up a single story into multiple chapters and submitting each chapter as a separate entry in the contest.

Why would one assume this? I don't see any rationale behind this.

First, it's unlikely to happen. It's unlikely authors are going to be able to complete very long stories and submit multiple chapters in a single contest. For most authors, it's all they can do to get one chapter done for the contest. This strikes me as a phantom problem. I cannot imagine the Site being worried about this.

Second, why would any author do this? The data show that longer stories tend to do score higher. An author has a better chance in a contest of packaging all chapters into a single submission than submitting many chapters to one contest.

Third, I've never seen the slightest indication from Laurel that this is the motive, and I've never seen anyone in this forum ever say that this is the reason. This is the first I've ever heard this explanation.

Fourth, this explanation avoids the obvious. The obvious explanation is that the Site wants all of us to write a new, original story for the contest. It doesn't want an author piggybacking off a previous story for a contest. There are two extremely compelling reasons for this. One is to guarantee that story submissions are new and original, rather than part of something pre-existing, a worthy rationale in and of itself. The second is that, based on existing data, late chapters in ongoing series have a built-in advantage over standalone stories in terms of scores, and that's unfair. To give an extreme example, if Tefler were to introduce the latest chapter in his 100+ chapter sci fi epic Three Square Meals series in the Nude Day contest, he obviously would have an unfair advantage, because the readers of his story would comprise a well-honed-over-time readership that likes whatever he does and has little interest in the contest in which the story is submitted.

That's just my opinion. If I'm wrong and the Site has some other concern in mind and believes the submission abides by the rules, I don't mind, although I think the Site should clarify its rule to avoid confusion.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

To give an extreme example, if Tefler were to introduce the latest chapter in his 100+ chapter sci fi epic Three Square Meals series in the Nude Day contest, he obviously would have an unfair advantage

In your hypothetical, Tefler's submission would not be allowed. All of his Three Square Meal stories are labeled Ch. 001, Ch. 002, etc. They do not qualify as standalone stories. They are chapters.

Second, why would any author do this? The data show that longer stories tend to do score higher. An author has a better chance in a contest of packaging all chapters into a single submission than submitting many chapters to one contest.

Maybe the author is hoping for more overall exposure in the contest by flooding it with entries. Maybe the author is hoping that by the last chapter of her series, only those readers who really enjoyed it are still hanging around, and therefore she'll get a much higher score than a standalone piece (and all she needs is 25 votes to qualify). I certainly wouldn't break up a story into chapters for a contest, but I can think of reasons why an author might give it a go. The rule prevents this, which primarily benefits readers. As a reader, I don't want to click on a contest entry only to find it is chapter 3 of 15, then have to go hunt around for the other chapters. I want to read a single story around the contest theme that has a beginning and an end.

Third, I've never seen the slightest indication from Laurel that this is the motive

Agreed. We don't know what the intent is behind the rule. We only have the text of the rule itself to go from. And I don't think you can assume from the text of the rule that its motive is to prevent authors from benefitting from higher scores that may accompany a standalone work that is somehow related to another series.

The obvious explanation is that the Site wants all of us to write a new, original story for the contest. It doesn't want an author piggybacking off a previous story for a contest.

Again, I don't know that this is obvious. TP has written a story for this year's Nude Day contest that is related to an existing series that Laurel approved and entered into the contest. Voboy stated earlier that he has submitted multiple standalone works to various contests that are related to other stories in the universe he's created. I've seen other authors do this as well. If the site doesn't want an author piggybacking off ANY type of previous story that they've written, why has this been permitted? Maybe the site is lax in enforcing the intent behind the rule. Or maybe what you assume to be the intent of the rule is not actually the intent of the rule.

If I'm wrong and the Site has some other concern in mind and believes the submission abides by the rules, I don't mind, although I think the Site should clarify its rule to avoid confusion.

I absolutely could be wrong in my interpretation of this too. I'm just sharing one perspective. I agree that it would be helpful for the site to clarify this particular rule and, if they are willing, give us some insight into the intent behind it.

 

[Voboy]

Granted, we don't know, but I think that since it's contests we're talking about, and Laurel seems to have little or no issue with chaptered works in events and challenges, then the rationale for banning portions of multipart stories has to be tied to the competitive nature of the contests: there are winners, and prizes, and that dynamic does not exist in the other themed events.

So the ban on chaptered works, logically, is probably tied to the desire to limit a competitive advantage. And as someone who's written a successful multipart work, it seems self-evident to me that the latter chapters in such a work are likely to have an obvious built-in advantage in scoring.

If I really cared about winning a contest, I could resurrect my Pixy stories for One Last Engagement, post a story, guarantee myself something close to 4.9 regardless of the merit of the piece, and waltz away with a win. That's not fair to the other competitors.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I'd always assumed the series rule was to prevent someone from tweaking a chapter of their ongoing series to meet a contest. As Simon mentioned that would give them an unfair advantage based on their existing readership. But that is purely speculation on my part.
Flooding the contest with multiple chapters doesn't strike me as a winning strategy.

 

[SimonDoom]

I absolutely could be wrong in my interpretation of this too. I'm just sharing one perspective. I agree that it would be helpful for the site to clarify this particular rule and, if they are willing, give us some insight into the intent behind it.

We're all doing our best to read the tea leaves. I have no personal stake or feeling in my answer. I'm a fan of TarnishedPenny's work. She's one of my favorite Literotica authors. She asked a question and I gave my best answer.

 

[ThatNewGuy]

Granted, we don't know, but I think that since it's contests we're talking about, and Laurel seems to have little or no issue with chaptered works in events and challenges, then the rationale for banning portions of multipart stories has to be tied to the competitive nature of the contests: there are winners, and prizes, and that dynamic does not exist in the other themed events.

I hadn't consider this. It's a strong point in favor of Simon's (and others') reading of the rule's intent and against my argument that we can't really know for certain what the Site intended with the rule.

I just don't think that the intent is baked in to the wording of the current rule:

"All submissions must be stand-alone stories created for this contest theme. We will not accept individual chapters of a larger work submitted separately. If you have a multi-chaptered contest-themed submission, please submit all chapters together as one story submission."

As I read that rule, it allows for a standalone story submitted by TP in the "A Model Garden" universe or a standalone story by Voboy in his Pixy universe. As long as it isn't a chapter that is dependent upon previous chapters in the series for the reader to understand it, it seems like the Site is willing to allow it. As I said earlier, if I were writing the rules to ensure a completely level playing field for all authors, I would prohibit stories with any connection to a previously published work/series.

We're all doing our best to read the tea leaves. I have no personal stake or feeling in my answer. I'm a fan of TarnishedPenny's work. She's one of my favorite Literotica authors. She asked a question and I gave my best answer.

Agreed. I follow TP and am a fan of her work. I have no personal stake or strong feeling in my answer. I'm just enjoying the discussion. I appreciate the thoughtful and respectful tone everyone has shown.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I submitted an entry to the Nude Day event, a story which is the fifth in a series. To me, each stands alone, meaning each can be read on its own, that unlike chapters in a book, it is not necessary to have read earlier ones for it to make sense.

There's your answer. Fifth in a series can't be stand-alone because... fifth. That clearly means four connected somethings have gone before, so characters, motives, motifs, they've all been established. It's a contest, with prizes, so your story goes in with an advantage. The story is building on the back of the earlier four. That's not stand-alone.

Not needing the earlier chapters for Part 5 to make sense isn't the point - it's the votes that come from those readers who are there because of the previous four parts. I get notified of your new stories, TP, and when that one turned up on my dash and I read your disclaimer I thought, that's not right, not for a contest.

I've read some of the earlier parts because I like the premise, but I've not read this chapter yet, and won't vote until after the contest. That's the point - you've already established the premise.

 

[KeithD]

Iit seems like the Site is willing to allow it.

My impression is that Laurel is doing zero vetting of story entries on following the rules. Has anyone ever had one of your entries to a themed contest here rejected as not being within the rules?

 

[lovecraft68]

You shouldn't lose sleep, and I'm not outraged by it, but I think your submission violates the rules. The rule is this:

• All submissions must be stand-alone stories created for this contest theme. We will not accept individual chapters of a larger work submitted separately. If you have a multi-chaptered contest-themed submission, please submit all chapters together as one story submission.

I don't see how your submission does NOT break this rule. On your story submission list, it's clearly numbered 5 in a series of stories. You may personally feel that the story, because of its qualities, can stand alone, but that's not the issue. The fact is that the story IS identified as the fifth chapter in a series, and this means that in terms of score, you are going to benefit from the fact that over time chapters in a series tend to score higher, because there's a certain amount of attrition over time and those readers who stick with the series will tend to be those who are predisposed to like your story. So you have a built-in, and in my opinion unfair, advantage over those who submit their stories as standalone stories. It's irrelevant whether the story, as a narrative, can stand alone. You are potentially reaping the benefit that this rule is intended to prevent. If I were the contest administrator I would strike your story from the contest.

Few years back an author put a Christmas story-including Santa in the title- In the Halloween contests years ago, and it went right through. That author even admitted they knew it didn't fit, but wanted to take advantage of the extra attention.

I've paid no attention to anything they claim as "rules" since that point.

But I'm sure if they don't like the author, or subject matter, suddenly that rule would be enacted

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Few years back an author put a Christmas story-including Santa in the title- In the Halloween contests years ago, and it went right through. That author even admitted they knew it didn't fit, but wanted to take advantage of the extra attention.

I've paid no attention to anything they claim as "rules" since that point.

But I'm sure if they don't like the author, or subject matter, suddenly that rule would be enacted

Nightmare before Christmas porn parody?

 

[lovecraft68]

Funny this topic comes up because I had something I was going to submit to Nude Day, but its part of a series, so I wasn't clear with the stand alone rule.

But the series, "Milf Tails" is all one off stories with different characters and premises in each one, so it wouldn't be a problem

Now this reminded me of why' I shouldn't bother worrying in the first place.