question(s)about sharing.

[catalina_francisco]

Ah, but what if that person doesnt want to open up or tell the truth. You are right there are other issues here besides just getting angry and near taking a swing at someone. Why is it that person that is wrong. Why is it that person can not handle the issues. The other person can be manipulating the situation and using the others anger and frustration as justification! Couldnt that person be feeling frustration because no matter what is tried they are hitting a brick wall?

I have seen it many a time where the instigator yells first and being the guy replies by yelling he is automatically wrong becasue he raised his voice. I dont buy it. I dont support that. Ive seen too much manipulating to say the person who gets angry, yells, or hits is automatally wrong. What was done to provoke it.

No, even in this hitting is not correct nor should it be accepted. But that does not mean the other is totally innocent either. Your right taken at face value it does appear like a cop out. But the underlying problems are the real culprit.

As someone who has worked in Domestic Violence, some of the most often used excuses are 'She made me do it, she pushed my buttons, it wasn't my fault, I had no choice'. Thing is everyone has a choice and whether anyone pushes your buttons or not, you can always leave, either permanently, or until in a mood sufficiently cooled to address the issues in a reasonable manner.

The abuser/perpetrator rarely takes responsibility for their actions instead looking to blame anyone else but themselves. But as I have said before, most of them choose to abuse, in privacy and with their SO and sometimes children, not their boss, mates, strangers in the street. If it were uncontrollable they would beat on anyone who didn't exactly please them. It is about power and control, but not in a consensual way, and based usually in insecurity in themselves.

Catalina

 

[ethereal~minx]

TigerClaw~~~

Ah, but what if that person doesnt want to open up or tell the truth.
that is a choice that person is making. To me it's about boundaries, personal boundaries. If you are entering an area where you are uncomfortable~~~ own it & state it. and the other person should respect those boundaries~~~ neither person is wrong~ their behavior is. emotions get tense at times & lines are crossed by both~~ neither person is in control of themselves at this point.

The other person can be manipulating the situation and using the others anger and frustration as justification!
first of all~ manipulating for what? to work skillfully, in this intense frustrated state~ to get back to a point of communication & respect? again, both are feeling frustration, both are feeling the brick wall~~ emotions are nearly if not outta control... both want to be heard so all of this difficulty and pain can be behind them.
*that justification statement reeeeally bothers me...*

justification for what? ugh, this makes me feel sick. ...for a reason to get out of the relationship? ...if that person is using it as justification, that person is not taking responsibility for their own life and instead blaming the other person for the breakup... in this instance, the person using the anger & frustration as justification is creating a whole new set of problems/difficulties for themselves. the other person will not question their motive/intent and will persist in seeking resolution... seeking understanding from their beloved and ohhhhh gawd, how painful that realization is should it come to pass and this situation can go on and on for as long as the other believes in the relationship & that behavior is---oh gawd, how deceptive & vicious "deceivious" (used for someone specific)!
mindfuck? to say the least.

I have seen it many a time where the instigator yells first and being the guy replies by yelling he is automatically wrong becasue he raised his voice. I dont buy it. I dont support that. Ive seen too much manipulating to say the person who gets angry, yells, or hits is automatally wrong. What was done to provoke it.
instigator, provoke~~~ from an objective standpoint and in a relationship I value, I don't think these words would enter into my vocabulary except in the heat of the moment~ or continued if I was unable to take responsibility for my actions...

 

[TigerClaw]

To have an incident happen and have a partner question it is natural. Especially if it is based on trust in the commitment to one another. If trust is broken yes your going to be hurt and angry. To deny that is not right.

If that trust is not repaired things will only get worse.

Yes, lies and manipulations are made to hide the truth and what is being done. There is no good excuse for that.

 

[Sirs Lady]

you guys are amazingly great. It is so hard to find ppl who can be honest about what they're thinking. one of the main attractions for me to the lifestyle is the honesty...

so, this is corny, but i just wanted to say that...

 

[FungiUg]

You're welcome. Of course, getting this lot to shut up is a whole nother story!

 

[Sirs Lady]

laughs softly

 

[TigerClaw]

Sorry about that.

I want to clarify some points. Ive been questioned a bit on this.

I just want to say I dont believe it is ok to hit a woman out of anger. Nor her hit a man.

My defense that a man could have been provoked into hitting is not a reflection of Sirs Lady or her Dom. It is on the topic but not related to them.

A man could be provoked but I dont agree he should hit her or that it justifies him hitting her. Same goes for a woman. He should just turn around and leave.

Should this man be married to her or have her in his home where he can not get her out. (this is possible) I hope I never experience that problem.

A woman could be guilty here in terms of being the one causing much of the grief. Just because the guy gets angry does not make him wrong. It is wrong to assume that he is, with out looking at all the facts. This is the point I am trying to make.

Anger and frustration is part of a relationship. It is all a matter of degree. If you always wind up in a fight when you try to talk are you really compatible then?

Some thoughts:

It is a sign that communication has broken down.
Your nerves are sensitive.
You need help in dealing with the problem.
Sometimes it is just a rut youve fallen into. You have to break out of it before it becomes natural in dealing with each other.
Do you or Do they really respect or love your partner/you if every every discussion turns into an arguement. Maybe they want out.

 

[Sirs Lady]

I didn't take any of what you said personally. You were just answering the question as you saw it. I'm not sure if you're speaking to me or to others but for wht it's worth, i'm not offended or upset.. I don't feel i provoked the situation. He lied to me about a situation he was very sensitive about. I caught him and the situation got out of hand. He and i have talked about it for a long time after we had calmed down. I don't think it will happen again, and if it does, then I'm not going to stick around. I love him very much and know he loves me the same. We were both at a very critical point in our relationship. Anyway, I'm rambling....

 

[ownedsubgal]

ownedsub, i agree with you and that is the way of thinking i've taken too. If you don't mind me asking, how did you feel after he hit you the first time? did it affect your trust in Him for just a little bit? at all? feel free to pm me if you like. I'm just curious.

ADR, you don't have to keep coming back to these, if you are not interested in what we're saying.

Sirs Lady, first i want to say that probably unlike most here, my Master hits me/beats me often, outside of any sexual or bdsm context, and even outside of discipline or punishment. it is just a natural part of our relationship, a need of both of ours, and something that has always been. but hitting in anger is of course different. how did i feel when it happened? well, for one i didn't realize he was angry, i thought it was a disciplinary thing. i thought i had slightly stepped out of line or something and was being corrected for it. it wasn't until later that i realized it was about anger. it didn't affect my trust in him whatsoever. it made him a bit more human to me...He was a person capable of losing control and making mistakes like any other, something i hadn't contemplated before. and as i said, i just loved him the more for it.

 

[snoozebutton]

Sirs Lady, first i want to say that probably unlike most here, my Master hits me/beats me often, outside of any sexual or bdsm context, and even outside of discipline or punishment. it is just a natural part of our relationship, a need of both of ours, and something that has always been. but hitting in anger is of course different. how did i feel when it happened? well, for one i didn't realize he was angry, i thought it was a disciplinary thing. i thought i had slightly stepped out of line or something and was being corrected for it. it wasn't until later that i realized it was about anger. it didn't affect my trust in him whatsoever. it made him a bit more human to me...He was a person capable of losing control and making mistakes like any other, something i hadn't contemplated before. and as i said, i just loved him the more for it.

OK condoning being hit in anger is WAY dangerous ground. It is never acceptable. And shows a serious flaw in character and weakness on the part of the person doing the hitting. It is not a noble quality. Any stranger can hit you in anger, how is it showing anything but contempt from the person who is suppose to love and cherish you.

 

[ethereal~minx]

....Anger and frustration is part of a relationship. It is all a matter of degree. If you always wind up in a fight when you try to talk are you really compatible then?

Some thoughts:

It is a sign that communication has broken down.
Your nerves are sensitive.
You need help in dealing with the problem.
Sometimes it is just a rut youve fallen into. You have to break out of it before it becomes natural in dealing with each other.
Do you or Do they really respect or love your partner/you if every every discussion turns into an arguement. Maybe they want out.

again, to say the relationship is beyond repair because of anger & frustration/argument is a cop-out. it's ended because to that person, they've hit a dead-end, they do not see another way around the obstacle~~~
it's not a matter of compatibility, respect or love for eachother~~~ you wouldn't have gotten to this point if you didn't want understanding from eachother, if you didn't care about eachother soooo much so that you're risking it by 'fighting' for a resolution.. it's about dealing with it TOGETHER and overcoming the difficulties so what is natural in the relationship is growth~deepened trust and intimacy... deeeper love


this is all presuming the relationship is valued by BOTH and where it just seems there's no other way... there is.

 

[ownedsubgal]

OK condoning being hit in anger is WAY dangerous ground. It is never acceptable. And shows a serious flaw in character and weakness on the part of the person doing the hitting. It is not a noble quality. Any stranger can hit you in anger, how is it showing anything but contempt from the person who is suppose to love and cherish you.

i never said losing control was "noble". but it is certainly human, and as humans we have flaws, and Dominants, even those who are Masters, are not immune to that. that experience helped me come to that realization. Daddy is not just this all-knowing, all-powerful presence in my life, he's also a REAL (with irrational jealousies and all) person. and that is what was a comfort to me. my Master has never shown any contempt towards me...one thing that has always been crystal clear, is his undying love and devotion for me. He never would have hit me that way, on that night, had he not been in love with me, had he not found me valuable. i would never try to say what is or isn't acceptable for every relationship, i can only speak on my own experiences and feelings. i do think that it would do the D/s community as a whole a world of good if more of us worked a bit harder at keeping an open mind and ear and worked a little less at condemning.

 

[ownedsubgal]

again, to say the relationship is beyond repair because of anger & frustration/argument is a cop-out. it's ended because to that person, they've hit a dead-end, they do not see another way around the obstacle~~~
it's not a matter of compatibility, respect or love for eachother~~~ you wouldn't have gotten to this point if you didn't want understanding from eachother, if you didn't care about eachother soooo much so that you're risking it by 'fighting' for a resolution.. it's about dealing with it TOGETHER and overcoming the difficulties so what is natural in the relationship is growth~deepened trust and intimacy... deeeper love


this is all presuming the relationship is valued by BOTH and where it just seems there's no other way... there is.

well said.

 

[TigerClaw]

... if you didn't care about eachother soooo much so that you're risking it by 'fighting' for a resolution.. it's about dealing with it TOGETHER and overcoming the difficulties so what is natural in the relationship is growth~deepened trust and intimacy... deeeper love


this is all presuming the relationship is valued by BOTH and where it just seems there's no other way... there is.

Yes........

That is the key. Definitely the whole key in a nut shell. Yes.

 

[Kataklysm]

OK condoning being hit in anger is WAY dangerous ground. It is never acceptable. And shows a serious flaw in character and weakness on the part of the person doing the hitting. It is not a noble quality. Any stranger can hit you in anger, how is it showing anything but contempt from the person who is suppose to love and cherish you.

I have to agree here. Everything I have been told and read over and over have used those same three safe, sane, consentual words. At no time did anyone tell me that you can just pick and choose one of those three and discard the other two.

 

[snoozebutton]

i never said losing control was "noble". but it is certainly human, and as humans we have flaws, and Dominants, even those who are Masters, are not immune to that. that experience helped me come to that realization. Daddy is not just this all-knowing, all-powerful presence in my life, he's also a REAL (with irrational jealousies and all) person. and that is what was a comfort to me. my Master has never shown any contempt towards me...one thing that has always been crystal clear, is his undying love and devotion for me. He never would have hit me that way, on that night, had he not been in love with me, had he not found me valuable. i would never try to say what is or isn't acceptable for every relationship, i can only speak on my own experiences and feelings. i do think that it would do the D/s community as a whole a world of good if more of us worked a bit harder at keeping an open mind and ear and worked a little less at condemning.

True an open mind is a great thing. But let me ask you, if you were new to the lifestyle and heard was ok to be hit in anger, wouldn't that be dangerous as many new submissives already have issues with speaking up to there Dominants. It may have made him more human to you, but you have a responsibility to clarify the situation and explain it's not ok to hit in anger.

 

[ownedsubgal]

True an open mind is a great thing. But let me ask you, if you were new to the lifestyle and heard was ok to be hit in anger, wouldn't that be dangerous as many new submissives already have issues with speaking up to there Dominants. It may have made him more human to you, but you have a responsibility to clarify the situation and explain it's not ok to hit in anger.

first, i've never said and never would state that it is "okay" to hit or be hit in anger. i've seen that statement thrown around quite a bit on these boards recently "we can't say it's okay to hit in anger", but have yet to see a post from myself or anyone else where that was ever said or even implied.

as i said, in the personal experience i described, at the time of the incident, i had no idea it was about anger. it was not an especially vicious or brutal hit, and it was only one hit, a single strike, not a beating. that is why i assumed i had made some minor infraction. for something serious, i normally would receive a beating or much worse. it was my Master who later told me the true reason behind it, and he (unnecessarily) apologized.

i do not feel i have a "responsibility" to newcomers to the lifestyle. it's sad that so many feel that we ought to preach one single right "way" to follow this lifestyle, all under the pretext of concern and safety. when i was a newbie myself, with no real clue about anything other than the knowledge that i was a born submissive, it was extremely depressing and disheartening to read book after book, article after article, post after post describing the sort of relationship i dreamed of and desired with all my heart as the "wrong way", describing submissives like myself as doormats. if there's anything i could tell a newbie, it would be to be true to yourself, take the path that is right and natural for YOU, and not the path that follows some D/s or bdsm guidebook on how this is supposed to be.

 

[Kataklysm]

first, i've never said and never would state that it is "okay" to hit or be hit in anger. i've seen that statement thrown around quite a bit on these boards recently "we can't say it's okay to hit in anger", but have yet to see a post from myself or anyone else where that was ever said or even implied.

my Master hits me/beats me often, outside of any sexual or bdsm context, and even outside of discipline or punishment. it is just a natural part of our relationship, a need of both of ours, and something that has always been.

I am NOT trying to argue with your or diminish your opinion in any way but...these two things you said seem to be conflicting. If you can clarify, great. If not..that's fine as well but I'd appreciate it.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I am NOT trying to argue with your or diminish your opinion in any way but...these two things you said seem to be conflicting. If you can clarify, great. If not..that's fine as well but I'd appreciate it.

there's no conflict in those two posts...hitting me outside of physical punishment/discipline or sexuality does not equate to being hit in anger. there are many reasons a man may have the need to beat his mate, and that a woman may have the need to be beaten by her mate. as for Daddy and i, those reasons have nothing whatever to do with anger. as i said, he beats me often. if i evoked anger within him often, he would not keep me as his slave and mate, i would have been out the door a long time ago.

 

[snoozebutton]

first, i've never said and never would state that it is "okay" to hit or be hit in anger. i've seen that statement thrown around quite a bit on these boards recently "we can't say it's okay to hit in anger", but have yet to see a post from myself or anyone else where that was ever said or even implied.

as i said, in the personal experience i described, at the time of the incident, i had no idea it was about anger. it was not an especially vicious or brutal hit, and it was only one hit, a single strike, not a beating. that is why i assumed i had made some minor infraction. for something serious, i normally would receive a beating or much worse. it was my Master who later told me the true reason behind it, and he (unnecessarily) apologized.

i do not feel i have a "responsibility" to newcomers to the lifestyle. it's sad that so many feel that we ought to preach one single right "way" to follow this lifestyle, all under the pretext of concern and safety. when i was a newbie myself, with no real clue about anything other than the knowledge that i was a born submissive, it was extremely depressing and disheartening to read book after book, article after article, post after post describing the sort of relationship i dreamed of and desired with all my heart as the "wrong way", describing submissives like myself as doormats. if there's anything i could tell a newbie, it would be to be true to yourself, take the path that is right and natural for YOU, and not the path that follows some D/s or bdsm guidebook on how this is supposed to be.

I am glad you found happiness on your end of the spectrum. And I respect your opinion to not protect newbies. But I feel you made an informed choice. You read the material and knew wasn't for you. I was raised to treat women as something other than my punching bag. That is my choice.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I am glad you found happiness on your end of the spectrum. And I respect your opinion to not protect newbies. But I feel you made an informed choice. You read the material and knew wasn't for you. I was raised to treat women as something other than my punching bag. That is my choice.

snoozebutton, i do not mean to be disrespectful at all (although i don't feel my Master or myself have been afforded the same courtesy here), but i do not see how leading newbies to believe that there is only one "right" path to follow within this lifestyle is protecting them at all. in fact i see it hurting a great many newcomers, by leaving many to feel like unwanted outsiders because their own needs, desires and beliefs don't match the current politically correct D/s "way" they read about online and hear about at the munches.

and, i was fortunate that i found my Master when i did and learned that i am not some horrible freak of nature, that the things i desire and need are not so crazy, that i do actually belong in this lifestyle. not everyone is so fortunate.

 

[snoozebutton]

snoozebutton, i do not mean to be disrespectful at all (although i don't feel my Master or myself have been afforded the same courtesy here), but i do not see how leading newbies to believe that there is only one "right" path to follow within this lifestyle is protecting them at all. in fact i see it hurting a great many newcomers, by leaving many to feel like unwanted outsiders because their own needs, desires and beliefs don't match the current politically correct D/s "way" they read about online and hear about at the munches.

and, i was fortunate that i found my Master when i did and learned that i am not some horrible freak of nature, that the things i desire and need are not so crazy, that i do actually belong in this lifestyle. not everyone is so fortunate.

As I said I respected your choice you have no cause for feeling disrespected. Your the one who said he hit you often and for a myriad of reasons not me. That is your choice fine. You said you didn't want to cuddle newbies fine, I pointed them in no harmful direction. I haven't made light of any of your statements. You have a right to let the man who loves you treat you as he sees fit. I just stated was not to my taste.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I am glad you found happiness on your end of the spectrum. And I respect your opinion to not protect newbies. But I feel you made an informed choice. You read the material and knew wasn't for you. I was raised to treat women as something other than my punching bag. That is my choice.

first i'll say that i have often misinterpreted the feelings behind someone else's words online, so i may be way off here. but i took the above to imply that 1. i have a "i don't care" attitude towards newcomers to the lifestyle; 2. that speaking about my way of life sends some kind of negative message to newcomers; and 3. that my Master treats me as nothing above a punching bag. so, i took offense. if i was wrong on the above, i accept that. but my comment was in reference to the responses of many on this board and not simply you personally, snoozebutton.

(btw, i personally believe that creating more division among lifestylers and lifestylers to be is indeed leading one in a negative direction)

 

[Sirs Lady]

I have a mentor friend that I talk to occassionally, one of the first things he told me when i was learning and reading about the lifestyle is that there is no right or wrong way to live it. ownedsubgirl has found her way to live it and others have found theirs.

I had a hard time in the beginning; as i was reading and looking into the lifestyle. I thought I was insane, crazy, that something was really wrong with me. I'd been through some pretty violent stuff when i was younger and couldn't believe that something like this would attract me. It made me feel disgusted with myself. my Mentor and eventually my Sir made me feel better about it.

My Sir hits me sexually, it is something i crave and want, the time he hit me out of anger was the first. I hit him back, he still has a scar from it. He has a desire to control me more. I'm slowly giving it to him as I learn to trust him more. I'm very hard headed and like being able to take care of myself, learning to trust him has been pretty hard, not b/c of Him, but b/c of me. Hmm, i hope that makes sense. It is/was a pride thing.

anyway, i'm rambling again. i just wanted to throw that in there. i would think that most ppl coming into the lifestyle read and learn more about it as they join the ride. This has been the first site i've gone to where we sort of chat together and most ppl seem to be real into the lifestyle and can offer real advice. I think it is the responsibility of the person coming into this new world to make sure it is someting they want.

 

[Sirs Lady]

for example, my Sir doesnt really use titles. Except for me calling him Sir...he doesn't call the way we live the "lifestyle" and such....does that make sense?