~ R a p e ~

[unfoundiamond]

my own rape fantasies seem to be quite a bit different from most, in that i've never fantasized about being ravaged by some hot guy/guys and "forced" to do all the things i truly want to do deep down. i've never had those kinds of hang-ups regarding my sexuality, have never felt anything was wrong or bad about having lots of sex, casual sex, sex with strangers, nasty perverted sex, etc. nah.

my fantasies are actually of real rape, of the violent variety, with all the physical pain and permanently scarring emotional anguish that comes along with it. it's all about the suffering for me...it's what a big part of me feels i deserve, it's part of what i feel i'm here on this planet for...**coming from a history of warped childhood sexual abuse and countless cold, unwilling, shutting up and taking it sexual experiences as an adult**, after a while it hit me that just maybe these things are always happening to me because they're supposed to...because they need to happen to someone, and i can take it (better me than someone else, someone happier, prettier, more confident, more valuable, etc.). so, that's the way my fantasies run. am i aroused in the fantasies, getting all hot and bothered as someone violently has their way with me? nope, of course not. no more so than i'd be aroused while experiencing the reality. but am i aroused thinking about the fantasy, or even recalling the reality later? yep.

That's why, and I am honestly sorry for you Owned, and I believe that you want someone to tell you that shit isn't true.

No matter how pretty, confident, or worthy you are, sometimes bad things happen, that we DO NOT deserve- but we live another day to heal and bloom in a better place... To learn how to take our desire for pain and release and learn how to handle it in a more healthy way.

Negative self talk is like self mutilation for your mind.

My heart screams to reach out to you. Not condemn you for your warped perception, but to help you see that's just the pain talking.


(((Hug)))

 

[twysted73]

Owned, as I delve deeper into this lifestyle I am empowered and enabled to abandon conventional thought and wisdom for a perception based more upon personal passions and preferences.

I see views, desires, preferences and practices expressed here in lit (as well in R/L) that demand more understanding, patience and attention then is normally assigned or invested.

I see ideas that, if viewed by "normal" and mainline/conformist opinions would most assuredly be branded as unsafe, unhealthy and marked for discouragement.

Things happen in people's lives (i was molested as a 9 yr. old by a female family member and then again as a 13 yr old by the cubscout leader on a camping trip) that change them or otherwise alter their life's course.
Should that automatically garner pity? Societally speaking, yes. The "awww's" come out, the saddened looks, the "are you ok now?" questions as well as the suggestions for raising your health insurance premium by donating to a local shrink for help.

And I am sure for some it's necessary, helpful, etc.
But no one ever seems to stop and consider whether or not we, as the abused, embrace our "perversions".
If we're secretly glad we were taken advantage of.
In my case, I'm glad for the female family member's contribution but not for the cub scout leader's.

In Ownedsubgal's mindset, she's fine with how things go down.
You can (enjoy) years of therapy and never be returned to how you were before. And no progress will be made unless it's something inside you that makes you want to get "better".

Is it "wrong" of those of us who are twysted enough to be happy we're broken to persue situations that rallow us to re-live or that remind us of those breaking points?
So long as it's something we consider "safe, sane, blah blah blah" then it should be good for us, non mon amis?

In this lifestyle, it seems to me public opinion is happily scorned and self-interpretation of "S/S/C" is the law of the land.

"Viva le Id"

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Is it "wrong" of those of us who are twysted enough to be happy we're broken to persue situations that rallow us to re-live or that remind us of those breaking points?
So long as it's something we consider "safe, sane, blah blah blah" then it should be good for us, non mon amis?

That's an interesting concept and not one I had considered before. When I read OSG's post I reacted in much the same way as LSR at first. It pains me to read that someone who has had such risky experiences has gone out and jeopardised her health seeking more of them. However much she feels in control and that she enjoys it, her lifestyle is indicative of someone with rock-bottom self esteem. I've read little posts OSG has made about her lifestyle before now and been concerned.

Having said all that, I do see that it's for her to decide how she deals with the pain in her life. If casual sex is a vindication of something she feels deeply, it's like a lifestyle version of self-harm.

What I cannot agree with, is that the path she has chosen and has every right to choose is 'good for her.' People on the boards bleat on about SSC because edgeplay can go very wrong, very fast, especially when your partner is someone you've just met. OSG must have a few hard limits left and yet she trusts them to people she doesn't know.

I don't deny her right to choose her own path. Personally though, I can't endorse or respect it.

 

[Netzach]

I don't think everything that I, personally, may deem "broken" has to be "fixed." A lot of people would apply this logic to me, and that is a scary dystopia.

Sometimes they just need someone who will appreciate them as is on their own terms.

I know that's probably antithetical to a lot of whatever, but your life, your body, your deal to do what you want with.

 

[unfoundiamond]

This worries me Twyst.

Owned, as I delve deeper into this lifestyle I am empowered and enabled to abandon conventional thought and wisdom for a perception based more upon personal passions and preferences.

I see views, desires, preferences and practices expressed here in lit (as well in R/L) that demand more understanding, patience and attention then is normally assigned or invested.

I see ideas that, if viewed by "normal" and mainline/conformist opinions would most assuredly be branded as unsafe, unhealthy and marked for discouragement.

Things happen in people's lives (i was molested as a 9 yr. old by a female family member and then again as a 13 yr old by the cubscout leader on a camping trip) that change them or otherwise alter their life's course.
Should that automatically garner pity? Societally speaking, yes. The "awww's" come out, the saddened looks, the "are you ok now?" questions as well as the suggestions for raising your health insurance premium by donating to a local shrink for help.

And I am sure for some it's necessary, helpful, etc.
But no one ever seems to stop and consider whether or not we, as the abused, embrace our "perversions".
If we're secretly glad we were taken advantage of.
In my case, I'm glad for the female family member's contribution but not for the cub scout leader's.

In Ownedsubgal's mindset, she's fine with how things go down.
You can (enjoy) years of therapy and never be returned to how you were before. And no progress will be made unless it's something inside you that makes you want to get "better".

Is it "wrong" of those of us who are twysted enough to be happy we're broken to persue situations that rallow us to re-live or that remind us of those breaking points?
So long as it's something we consider "safe, sane, blah blah blah" then it should be good for us, non mon amis?

In this lifestyle, it seems to me public opinion is happily scorned and self-interpretation of "S/S/C" is the law of the land.

"Viva le Id"

To me this sounds like an endorsement for a societal mistep.

Not being realistic about what happened to us and believeing "we wanted it" is bullshit. (IMHO)

People who say "they wanted it" are just trying to somehow rationalize themself into being in control, because if we wanted it than its okay (denial, self blame)... If they say they wanted it then they can fool themself, and interestingly the same attitude uvalidates perpetrating the violence to someone else.... because that person "wanted it too"

I notice this pattern... Acting like the victim wanted it is a what the perpetator thinks... its warped. It is part of the fucked up societal attitude that allows the abuse to go on for generations untreated.

I shouldn't start talking about this.

What happened to me as an adult is diffrent than when a child is victimized.

And anything that happens to us when we are children... any abuse... is wrong. And the adults who perpetrate it are spreading the disease and the ones who should waer the blame and shame.

I want the romantic version of what happened to me... not what happened...

I don't judge people, I am a realist... there's a diffrence

 

[Netzach]

To me this sounds like an endorsement for a societal mistep.

Not being realistic about what happened to us and believeing "we wanted it" is bullshit. (IMHO)

People who say "they wanted it" are just trying to somehow rationalize themself into being in control, because if we wanted it than its okay (denial, self blame)... If they say they wanted it then they can fool themself, and interestingly the same attitude uvalidates perpetrating the violence to someone else.... because that person "wanted it too"

I notice this pattern... Acting like the victim wanted it is a what the perpetator thinks... its warped. It is part of the fucked up societal attitude that allows the abuse to go on for generations untreated.

I shouldn't start talking about this.

What happened to me as an adult is diffrent than when a child is victimized.

And anything that happens to us when we are children... any abuse... is wrong. And the adults who perpetrate it are spreading the disease and the ones who should waer the blame and shame.

I want the romantic version of what happened to me... not what happened...

I don't judge people, I am a realist... there's a diffrence

There are a whole host of people to tell you that wanting a fantasy version of it is not healthy.

You think her life and her fantasies are unhealthy.

What if both the people who would deny you your fantasies AND everyone who's coming out to say OSG is fucked up are all RIGHT? Is being socially unacceptable a mandate for changing. fixing, reprogramming? Are people not entitled to be fucked up and stay fucked up?

You are entitled to your level of "kinda messed up" but the next person is not.

There are a lot of things that I personally, would not do, and are wrong for me. Short of killing people or abusing children and vulnerable adults, I don't think we get to moralize anyone's sexuality.

 

[twysted73]

To me this sounds like an endorsement for a societal mistep.

Not being realistic about what happened to us and believeing "we wanted it" is bullshit. (IMHO)

People who say "they wanted it" are just trying to somehow rationalize themself into being in control, because if we wanted it than its okay (denial, self blame)... If they say they wanted it then they can fool themself, and interestingly the same attitude uvalidates perpetrating the violence to someone else.... because that person "wanted it too"

I notice this pattern... Acting like the victim wanted it is a what the perpetator thinks... its warped. It is part of the fucked up societal attitude that allows the abuse to go on for generations untreated.

I shouldn't start talking about this.

What happened to me as an adult is diffrent than when a child is victimized.

And anything that happens to us when we are children... any abuse... is wrong. And the adults who perpetrate it are spreading the disease and the ones who should waer the blame and shame.

I want the romantic version of what happened to me... not what happened...

I don't judge people, I am a realist... there's a diffrence

I agree with your point here as well.
No arguments at all. (( hugs you diamond ))

Anyone who's close to me knows me for the "Devil's Advocate" debator that I am.
I can't help being a brat and jumping the fence just to drop jaws. Dramatic? No. I just get off on great conversation. Absolutely love mind/thought/intellectual expansion.

But what brought me in and made me write what I wrote was (to sum it up) simply to say although I don't condone what was done to me, I'm not unhappy it happened.
Because something inside me tells me I'd not be as expressive and intune with my sexual side nearly as much had it not happened. And my sexual side brings me much happiness.

So....bad for other innocents, good for my past and how it's made me the compassionate, understanding yet completely sexual personality that i am today.

*waits for the "ta-daa" music*

 

[VelvetDarkness]

I don't think everything that I, personally, may deem "broken" has to be "fixed." A lot of people would apply this logic to me, and that is a scary dystopia.

Sometimes they just need someone who will appreciate them as is on their own terms.

I know that's probably antithetical to a lot of whatever, but your life, your body, your deal to do what you want with.

I don't think that everything that is broken, has to be fixed. OTOH I can tell that something in OSG has indeed been broken.

As I said before, her path is her choice but I can't agree with Twysted73 that her chosen path is 'good for her.'

 

[Netzach]

I don't think that everything that is broken, has to be fixed. OTOH I can tell that something in OSG has indeed been broken.

As I said before, her path is her choice but I can't agree with Twysted73 that her chosen path is 'good for her.'

Really?

She has said so repeatedly. At what point do you just decide that the best authority on someone's life IS that person?

 

[VelvetDarkness]

She has said so repeatedly. At what point do you just decide that the best authority on someone's life IS that person?

99% of the time I'd agree. People though have limited objectivity about themselves - me included I'm sure. Do I think that OSG will reach a ripe old age with no regrets? No. Do I hope for her own sake that she will? Absolutely.

I'm sorry if I read as judgemental but I think it's very simplistic to suggest that everybody knows what's best for themselves. Often, they really don't but it's not my responsibility, as I already said.

 

[unfoundiamond]

I was SO expecting this...

There are a whole host of people to tell you that wanting a fantasy version of it is not healthy.*

You think her life and her fantasies are unhealthy.^

What if both the people who would deny you your fantasies AND everyone who's coming out to say OSG is fucked up are all RIGHT? Is being socially unacceptable a mandate for changing. fixing, reprogramming? Are people not entitled to be fucked up and stay fucked up?#

You are entitled to your level of "kinda messed up" but the next person is not.

There are a lot of things that I personally, would not do, and are wrong for me. Short of killing people or abusing children and vulnerable adults, I don't think we get to moralize anyone's sexuality.

** I wanted the fantasy before I was raped, so it isn't a "fanstasy version of what happened to me"... but what I was saying is that I am not so diffrent, I like "forced" porn and was showing I am not trying to be "holier than thou" I am not pretending to be perfect, I am a little twisted, perverted whatever... But I also have a grasp of the act being WRONG, and that is what's important, I will say it again, Acting like child molestation is what the victim wanted is the attitude that rationalizes these acts, and allows the victim to later believe there is nothing wrong with becoming the perpetrator. (And that just my opinion, backed up by 90% of the social work cases my mother worked and countless abused children I have known or met doing missionary work.)

^^You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that. I was saying I don't even believe OSG thinks that, and I said exactly that in my post.

##When people "stay fucked up" from being abused or molested, they 99% of the time perpetrate the abuse to others... that's not acceptible. (And usually they choose they people who can't defend themselves like children, or the elderly.) So if what you said in your last paragraph is true, then we agree.

I see your point... But I am wiser, not "kinda fucked up" for what happened to me. I know who's fault it was, and why its wrong, and don't have to carry on the cycle of abuse and self destruction that sexual abuse causes.

I wrote my post and expected you to have something to say... but, I would debate with you all day, and still respect your opinions... and I also kinda dig your bitchyness, its hot to me for some reason...

 

[twysted73]

I don't think that everything that is broken, has to be fixed. OTOH I can tell that something in OSG has indeed been broken.

As I said before, her path is her choice but I can't agree with Twysted73 that her chosen path is 'good for her.'

Agree with you too Velvet. I'm not saying it's necessarily good for her. But in her opinion it's what works.
As for what the public in general might say about it might be along the lines of "self-destructive behavior begets self-destruction. Seek help before you are unable to."

In my personal opinion I am afraid for her. As hot as it may be, there is bound to be one "abuser" who takes things too far and causes permenant damage, possibly even death. And no kink is worth that.

 

[Netzach]

Who do we propose step in and intervene in situations like this?

State? Friends? Family? Who gets to decide that while I think my life works for me, in spite of that obvious "delusion" I don't deserve to make that call. I'm still left wondering who gets to draw the line between an OK relationship and an abusive one, other than the abused, unless that person is a minor or a ward or some kind. Obviously the state does to a point. But I would think that most of us realize that I can be arrested as an abuser and a sex offender for having a wooden spoon to a girl's backside at the wrong party in New England.

As for the idea that someone like osg must have her decision making taken away from her (by someone other than the person she gave it to as a M/s slave) because stats say she'll repeat the cycle, well, stats say that I'm liable to contract HIV, stats say I'm liable to be killed by a romantic partner, stats say I'm liable to beat my children if I ever wanted to have them (we're being so theoretical)

so, by extension, my right to have sex, get married, and have kids should all be called into question just as much.

I realize no one is saying let's take away her right to make these decisions. But I do think that "well it's your right, but I'm going to sit around and tell you how obviously you don't know your own needs and you are just messed up" implies that you think someone else will do a better job, no?

 

[twysted73]

Who do we propose step in and intervene in situations like this?

State? Friends? Family? Who gets to decide that while I think my life works for me, in spite of that obvious "delusion" I don't deserve to make that call. I'm still left wondering who gets to draw the line between an OK relationship and an abusive one, other than the abused, unless that person is a minor or a ward or some kind. Obviously the state does to a point. But I would think that most of us realize that I can be arrested as an abuser and a sex offender for having a wooden spoon to a girl's backside at the wrong party in New England.

As for the idea that someone like osg must have her decision making taken away from her (by someone other than the person she gave it to as a M/s slave) because stats say she'll repeat the cycle, well, stats say that I'm liable to contract HIV, stats say I'm liable to be killed by a romantic partner, stats say I'm liable to beat my children if I ever wanted to have them (we're being so theoretical)

so, by extension, my right to have sex, get married, and have kids should all be called into question just as much.

I realize no one is saying let's take away her right to make these decisions. But I do think that "well it's your right, but I'm going to sit around and tell you how obviously you don't know your own needs and you are just messed up" implies that you think someone else will do a better job, no?

Very good point Netzach. Very good.
Who are we (or anyone) to judge what is right for another? As in the case of the mentally disabled or immature, we use our own sense of right and wrong to assist them in a situation that they, themselves, are mentally incapable of handeling.

However it brings us back to the root point of kink and what each of us enjoys.

But....and just suppose for a moment, that someone who has been "broken" at a young age or as an adult might then fall under the category of "unable to make a decision based on their own safety" much like teens who haven't developed that fear for themselves or the mentally disabled who are born as such?
Would that state of being broken then fall under that category?
The category of having been altered so that they are unable to make that conscious decision for their own safetty?

I agree with you it is quite a conundrum as to just who steps in and takes the point of guardianship in this case as the person themselves, for all intents and purposes, aren't considered by society as disabled in any way.

Unfortunately they (we) then fall between the cracks of privacy/persuit of happiness vs. state-sanctioned direction.

 

[unfoundiamond]

There is maybe a reason you have

The fantasy isn't the problem.

And no one needs to "step in" all the girl needs if anything is a little direction.(and I didn't say she needed intervention...I don't even think that's neccesarry...IMO)

Its not about implying someone is broken, its about telling someone what I would want someone to say to me, if wrote a post like that. Treating others like I would want to be treated.

There's nothing wrong with liking rape fantasies... there's a problem with having self esteem problems, and not having a good support system that notices.

If she doesn't have one, then I will say what I would tell my own child if they said something like that.

It goes back to me being maternal person and being able to tell the diffrence between a confession and a little cry ment for someone to hear.

I just hope the best for everyone in the new year.

 

[twysted73]

The fantasy isn't the problem.

And no one needs to "step in" all the girl needs if anything is a little direction.(and I didn't say she needed intervention...I don't even think that's neccesarry...IMO)

Its not about implying someone is broken, its about telling someone what I would want someone to say to me, if wrote a post like that. Treating others like I would want to be treated.

There's nothing wrong with liking rape fantasies... there's a problem with having self esteem problems, and not having a good support system that notices.

If she doesn't have one, then I will say what I would tell my own child if they said something like that.

It goes back to me being maternal person and being able to tell the diffrence between a confession and a little cry ment for someone to hear.

I just hope the best for everyone in the new year.

Well said.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Its not about implying someone is broken, its about telling someone what I would want someone to say to me, if wrote a post like that. Treating others like I would want to be treated.

There's nothing wrong with liking rape fantasies... there's a problem with having self esteem problems, and not having a good support system that notices.

If she doesn't have one, then I will say what I would tell my own child if they said something like that.

It goes back to me being maternal person and being able to tell the diffrence between a confession and a little cry ment for someone to hear.

I just hope the best for everyone in the new year.

That's a really good post and sums up my motivation as well.

Hope you have a great new year yourself.

 

[twysted73]

Merry "Pyl/pyl" to all

And, happy birthday to me.

 

[LilyBart]

Happy Birthday!

Happy Birthday, Twysted!

I've really appreciated reading this thread....while not necessarily interested in BDSM as a lifestyle, I am also not exactly "vanilla"....

However, I have also, this year, lived through my college age daughter's very violent rape and I suppose may have a different perspective. While she survived, thankfully...I do know that the experience has affected who she will be. For that, I must say, I am truly sad. I think, maybe, that I am still in mourning....

I won't post anymore on this topic tonight, mostly because I need to reflect some more....but I can thank you all for your thoughts up to this point.

Really...I just wanted to wish you, Twysted, a lovely birthday...and thank you for starting a thought-provoking thread. I really do enjoy hearing your point of view.....

 

[LilyBart]

Oh yes...and now I have said it out loud....

 

[unfoundiamond]

Lily.

Lily...
There is nothing "condolences" do to help the pain,

So I will say I hope she finds peace, and I hope anything I said helped in the miniscule capacity it could.

 

[unfoundiamond]

Happy Birthday...

Somehow I don't think you need anyone to show you how to be naughty, Twyst.

I think you do just fine being naughty... Just a guess...

I hope you enjoyed your Birthday.

 

[twysted73]

Somehow I don't think you need anyone to show you how to be naughty, Twyst.

I think you do just fine being naughty... Just a guess...

I hope you enjoyed your Birthday.

Well thank you so very much diamond. You're way too sweet for saying so.

 

[twysted73]

I've heard it mentioned that there are parties where it is offered by the host for women attending to sign up to be kidnapped sometime throughout the evening and "raped" and I wonder if this would constitute as such in anyone's mind?
I could only imagine the complications that could and might arise if she "changed her mind" at some point during.

If I were to host such a party with such a "favor" I would need to make the "sign up" process a little more involved such as having her choose a safe word, writing it to a hospital arm band & attaching it to her wrist, then assigning a "gang leader" to head up the "rapes" who would be there for the main reason of acting as the "victum's" protector and helper once he hears her use "the word" he has on his list that she designates.
And, of course, there would have to be written consent and release forms.

But I think it could be done logistically and theoretically speaking.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

However, I have also, this year, lived through my college age daughter's very violent rape and I suppose may have a different perspective. While she survived, thankfully...I do know that the experience has affected who she will be. For that, I must say, I am truly sad. I think, maybe, that I am still in mourning....

Hi LilyBart, I'm really sorry to hear about your daughter. A close friend of mine went through a similar experience but at the hands of her own bf so it was very hard to prove. She has definitely changed as a person. She is less confident, more wary but it goes deeper than that and is hard to define. She is healing, as I hope your daughter is too.

I can only send you positive vibes and hugs. <-----(",)----->