Rough & Loving It

[FurryFury]

*nods*

Fury

 

[Yang4yin]

I have a different view on this.

Physical control and rough sex are hot, no doubt. But dominance is mental.

Any thug can physically overpower a smaller person.

But a Dom/me can control a partner's behavior with just a look or a whisper.... all while sitting motionless on the other side of the room.

That is true. I won't dispute it.

Since "nobody" was able to explain to anyone's satisfaction about the reasons some like rough sex, I was merely attempting to put forth some more thoughts.

"True dominance" is about mental control. Sometimes it's fun to exert a little physical dominance/control, too.

So... what is it about rough sex that you like?


.

 

[JMohegan]

That is true. I won't dispute it.

Since "nobody" was able to explain to anyone's satisfaction about the reasons some like rough sex, I was merely attempting to put forth some more thoughts.

"True dominance" is about mental control. Sometimes it's fun to exert a little physical dominance/control, too.

So... what is it about rough sex that you like?


.

In post 50, above, I wrote: "Of course, the wild and unrestrained nature of rough sex can feel like dramatic conquest, as well as a celebration of raw, physical power. All very, very hot for me."

I can't really think of a different way to explain it, but if something comes to me I'll let you know.

 

[neonflux]

A lot of my vanilla mates can't understand why I like it rough.
What do you get out of being thrown around, bitten, pinned to the floor/bed/kitchen sink, etc?
And what do the rest of you get out of doing the throwing around?

I discussed this question with my Kink Partner night before last. We are both, as Cleo Dubois would phrase it, "versatile players" (have decided to start using that phrase to describe myself instead of "switch"). In any case, while our answers were slightly different, the following were common to both of us:

When both Dominant and sub: intense sensuality, emotional connection and energy exchange that at it's best is also deeply spiritual; excitement; heightened sexual intensity

When Dominant: thrill in controlling the interaction, in being obeyed, a creative outlet, a sense of power not just through domination but also in being able to shape and "hold" the space for both ourselves and our subs. Much like Yang4yin, my partner gets a rush from the sense of being "a Dominant Male." I adore Worship - it's a complete sensual/sexual turn on. A couple of my Personas are also quite impish and I get amusement out of making a sub feel anxious about what might be coming next as they try to anticipate my next move and prepare for it - hopefully unsuccessfully - it's all in the surprise.

When submissive (he and I are actually not so different here): as others have mentioned, there is a luxury in complete surrender, of not having to think, of being able to just "exist" - we both also enjoy service.

Regarding S/m, would agree with JMohegan that this is different, more visceral - still involves power and surrender but of a different type; it's hot and makes the sex hot, whenever sex is a part of the play or follows it. For me, because of the endorphins and/or adrenalin it also relaxes, relieves stress... I know that this might sound weird, but I feel great tenderness when I am administering pain, and tremendous gratitude to my bottom for the gift of asking me to do so, of not only surrenduring to it, but also enjoying it...

Neon

P.S., I think that sex is probably among the least animal-like parts of ourselves. Yea Netzach, have to agree that animal sex is pretty funny (then again human sex can be also, LOL). Even among pigmy chimps, our closest living relatives, those randy little s who use sex for just about everything from getting food to settling an argument, the act itself never seems to last longer than a couple of minutes.

 

[Ice2000]

I think it is harder for us that don't have a submissive side to understand. I just accept the fact that my subs have enjoys it immensely and god knows I like the power and control of it all.

But I honestly can't understand why anyone wants on the receiving end .. I just except the fact that it is.

What ever floats you boat I always say..

 

[gluttonne]

for me, rough sex in and of itself is enjoyable way to get out the stress/angst/rage that i seem to build up from day-to-day. i figured out a long time ago that if i didn't have an outlet for those feelings that i was capable of some pretty nasty behaviours. so i have outlets-singing/songwriting, communing with nature for the purposes of grounding/centering myself, sometimes just going outside and chopping wood until i'm too beat to be angry, etc.. but given that the women that are attracted to me also like it rather rough and have their own need for an outlet, rough sex feels pretty natural. in the end, everybody wins, noone gets hurt (any more than desired, anyway), and nobody has to die next time i get stuck in traffic or in whatever other condition tends to raise my ire. and just for reference, i haven't been a teen for a decade, so all that shite i heard about hormones and it all calimng down was just that. i've learned to deal with my own stupidity, but much more effectively so when i have an established set of cathartic outlets.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Because that's the way good sex is...

Mmmm... I'm liking this answer.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Ahem.

Or the dominant female animal taking what she has earned.

Fury

I'm about as dominant as they come - and I would never want a man in my bed that I could coerce, conform, or control in any way shape or form.

I honestly think dominant women who think they want this simply have yet to meet truly dominant male.

Feel free to disagree.

Im sure the "dommes" will be quite displeased with the sentiment.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I have a different view on this.

Physical control and rough sex are hot, no doubt. But dominance is mental.

Any thug can physically overpower a smaller person.

But a Dom/me can control a partner's behavior with just a look or a whisper.... all while sitting motionless on the other side of the room.

"Dominance" as state of mind is surely mental - but while I prefer a little more equal ground in a relationship than to be truly subserviant, I still enjoy "being" dominated.

There's a difference, for me anyway.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I discussed this question with my Kink Partner night before last. We are both, as Cleo Dubois would phrase it, "versatile players" (have decided to start using that phrase to describe myself instead of "switch"). In any case, while our answers were slightly different, the following were common to both of us:

When both Dominant and sub: intense sensuality, emotional connection and energy exchange that at it's best is also deeply spiritual; excitement; heightened sexual intensity

When Dominant: thrill in controlling the interaction, in being obeyed, a creative outlet, a sense of power not just through domination but also in being able to shape and "hold" the space for both ourselves and our subs. Much like Yang4yin, my partner gets a rush from the sense of being "a Dominant Male." I adore Worship - it's a complete sensual/sexual turn on. A couple of my Personas are also quite impish and I get amusement out of making a sub feel anxious about what might be coming next as they try to anticipate my next move and prepare for it - hopefully unsuccessfully - it's all in the surprise.

When submissive (he and I are actually not so different here): as others have mentioned, there is a luxury in complete surrender, of not having to think, of being able to just "exist" - we both also enjoy service.

Thanks for this, good stuff.

I havent slept much over the last few days so Im a little tired to be reading and posting, so forgive me if this doesnt make sense. But - I get the gist of what everyones saying and I appreciate all the thought that went into the answers.

But I somehow feel like my definition of being dominated in bed is crossing wires with some other defintions. So I think at this point though Id like to clarify something - when I say I like to be dominated - I should maybe rephrase that as I like someone TRYING to dominate me.

To be even more succinct - I enjoy wrestling. But sexy wriestling. With lots of foreplay. If you know what I'm saying. So while I like to be dominated in bed, I dont mean I want to lick boots (and the first man who asks best be wearing a cup) or anything. I just want someone to physically overpower me.

Earn it.

Or watch it get up and walk out of the bedroom.

 

[angel_girl]

Thanks for this, good stuff.

I havent slept much over the last few days so Im a little tired to be reading and posting, so forgive me if this doesnt make sense. But - I get the gist of what everyones saying and I appreciate all the thought that went into the answers.

But I somehow feel like my definition of being dominated in bed is crossing wires with some other defintions. So I think at this point though Id like to clarify something - when I say I like to be dominated - I should maybe rephrase that as I like someone TRYING to dominate me.

To be even more succinct - I enjoy wrestling. But sexy wriestling. With lots of foreplay. If you know what I'm saying. So while I like to be dominated in bed, I dont mean I want to lick boots (and the first man who asks best be wearing a cup) or anything. I just want someone to physically overpower me.

Earn it.

Or watch it get up and walk out of the bedroom.

Precisely!

*Angel totally crushing on Isa*

 

[BeachGurl2]

I honestly think dominant women who think they want this simply have yet to meet truly dominant male.

Feel free to disagree.

Im sure the "dommes" will be quite displeased with the sentiment.

I'm not a Domme, but of course, I disagree with the statement. It's basically the same as a man thinking all women want to be dominated. Only coming from a woman, it's a little scarier, in my opinion. It's the same closed mindedness that lesbians come across when a guy thinks that all she needs is some big cock to turn her 'normal' again. It's the 'boys will be boys' mentality that can lead to unwanted sexual advances. While I believe that you have the right to your opinion, whatever that may be, I also believe that kind of thinking is immature. All women do not want to be dominated, and I'm betting if some ultra macho Dom tried that approach with someone like Netzach, he'd be in for a rude awakening.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I'm not a Domme, but of course, I disagree with the statement. It's basically the same as a man thinking all women want to be dominated. Only coming from a woman, it's a little scarier, in my opinion. It's the same closed mindedness that lesbians come across when a guy thinks that all she needs is some big cock to turn her 'normal' again. It's the 'boys will be boys' mentality that can lead to unwanted sexual advances. While I believe that you have the right to your opinion, whatever that may be, I also believe that kind of thinking is immature. All women do not want to be dominated, and I'm betting if some ultra macho Dom tried that approach with someone like Netzach, he'd be in for a rude awakening.

I never said all women want to be dominated in the way I've described for myself.

I *do* believe women (even the most dominant) who enjoy dominating men simply have yet to meet the right man. I also believe women naturally defer to a man who leads *well*. The right man, that is. Because I believe they want to.

I believe its inherent. And that is what I meant when I referenced domination in that respect. Most people - most men, even - cant handle *my* idea of physical domination. I would hardly say something so silly as all women want this.

If youd like to continue this conversation, Im happy to oblige - but your approach isnt necessarily conducive to civilized conversation. Im not an idiot. Talk to me, not at me.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Precisely!

*Angel totally crushing on Isa*

Awww.. thanks.. nice to be loved once in a while..

 

[CutieMouse]

IsabellaSnow-

I honestly think dominant women who think they want this simply have yet to meet truly dominant male.

I *do* believe women (even the most dominant) who enjoy dominating men simply have yet to meet the right man. I also believe women naturally defer to a man who leads *well*. The right man, that is. Because I believe they want to."



I believe these two statements, made by a nam, instead of a woman, would cause one hell of an uproar from most dominantly inclined women... I leant towards not being a dominantly inclined woman, and even I raised an eyebrow. Surely you can't be surprised at the response it might bring?

The little tag at the end of one of your earlier posts in the thread:

IsableeaSnow-

"Im sure the "dommes" will be quite displeased with the sentiment. "



... can easily be read as, being disrespectful of dominant women, who don't see things as you do- those who just haven't met the big strong true dominant male yet. (Please pardon me, whilst I gracefully retch into a porcelin chamber pot.)

You came back and clarified what you meant with:

IsabellaSnow-

"I would hardly say something so silly as all women want this."


... which is quite helpful; however, I have to agree with Chris on this one- I personally find the general attitude to be a disturbing one, regardless of the gender who believes it.

Sigh- edited for quote thingies, as I couldn't get the qquote tags to work properly.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I believe these two statements, made by a nam, instead of a woman, would cause one hell of an uproar from most dominantly inclined women... I leant towards not being a dominantly inclined woman, and even I raised an eyebrow. Surely you can't be surprised at the response it might bring?

... can easily be read as, being disrespectful of dominant women, who don't see things as you do- those who just haven't met the big strong true dominant male yet. (Please pardon me, whilst I gracefully retch into a porcelin chamber pot.)

You came back and clarified what you meant


... which is quite helpful; however, I have to agree with Chris on this one- I personally find the general attitude to be a disturbing one, regardless of the gender who believes it.

I'm a dominant female and these are my opinions.

I dont mind elaborating on them, but Im surely not going to make excuses for them.

There are few things on this earth which truly surprise me. I dont, in any way shape or form, have any problem with any domme telling me they disagree with my beliefs. As long as they do the same for mine.

Im not asking anyone to subscribe to my opinions. On the contrary, I enjoy hearing opnions from everyone.

I just dont enjoy being talked at.

Is there a dominant female who does?

 

[IsabellaSnow]

One last thing before I go to bed - I've met a good number of men who call themselves Doms. Men who whip, chain, flog, etc - and I wouldnt necessarily call them Doms just because they do.

I'm not even necessarily talking about men who scene.

This thread was actually started for different reasons, so I didnt feel the need to go into massive detail. If you want details, ask. Dont assume I feel or think a certain way simply because Ive written something down.

I suspect our definitions of various terms vary greatly.

 

[CutieMouse]

I believe this boils down to a communication/tone issue.

I fail to see how (or where) you've been talked "at", rather than "to"; nor do I see where you were asked to defend your views- just because another finds your concept of how things work to be discomforting, does not mean a rebuttal is required.

All anyone has to go off of, for explination of your views, are the words you write; thus presumptions and judgements will be made from them. *shrug*.

As for "Doms"- I've met more than my fair share, also, and suspect my defnition of the term dominant is even more narrow than most... however, I balk at the idea of "real" or "true" dom/dommes, or reference to such. It's a personal pet peve, and nothing more.

My apologies to the OP, for hijacking the thread.

 

[neonflux]

Thanks for this, good stuff.

Why thanks, sweet!

To be even more succinct - I enjoy wrestling. But sexy wriestling. With lots of foreplay. If you know what I'm saying. So while I like to be dominated in bed, I dont mean I want to lick boots (and the first man who asks best be wearing a cup) or anything. I just want someone to physically overpower me...

An, wrestling! That's just fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun!

I *do* believe women (even the most dominant) who enjoy dominating men simply have yet to meet the right man. I also believe women naturally defer to a man who leads *well*. The right man, that is. Because I believe they want to."

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree. As a middle of the kinsey scale bi woman who has spent most of her life in the women's/lesbian community, I am certain that I have no secret desires to be dominated in this way. While I like engaging in both Dominance and surrender during BDSM play and 'nilla sex, this is gender-independent and has nothing to do with whether my partner is female, male, FTM or MTF.

I am curious as to why you think male dominance and female submission is "natural." Granted, in the past 3000 years, patriarchal cultures have been the norm throughout much of the world. The fact that many of us who are raised in these societies have had this social order deeply imprinted in our social wiring doesn't mean that it's "natural" or intrinsic to human nature. Men did not dominate women in indigenous American peoples (rape was a concept introduced to them by Europeans), and Amazons did exist - in certain parts of lower Eastern Europe - archealogical digs have proven this. Among Bonobo/Pigmy chimps (our closest living relatives) females are socially dominant and rule their group in large part through sex... (Unlike other species of chimps, which exhibit war-like behavior, bonobos are also very peaceful - guess one must wonder what happened to us during the course of our evolution. Personally, I think it's all the sex - they fuck pretty much constantly, LOL.)

Neon

P.S., Sorry, but I just can't resist, IsabellaSnow. I have had my boots / shoes kissed (a number of times) and I really, really love it...

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I believe this boils down to a communication/tone issue.

I fail to see how (or where) you've been talked "at", rather than "to"; nor do I see where you were asked to defend your views- just because another finds your concept of how things work to be discomforting, does not mean a rebuttal is required.

All anyone has to go off of, for explination of your views, are the words you write; thus presumptions and judgements will be made from them. *shrug*.

As for "Doms"- I've met more than my fair share, also, and suspect my defnition of the term dominant is even more narrow than most... however, I balk at the idea of "real" or "true" dom/dommes, or reference to such. It's a personal pet peve, and nothing more.

My apologies to the OP, for hijacking the thread.

I should so be asleep right now. But since I'm not:

Im the OP, so I guess youre apologizing to me?

I have my views. They arent going to change today.

Im not going to tell you yours make me want to retch. Nor am I going to label yours disturbing, or anything else.

This doesnt seem very productive, so I hope youll forgive me for saying youre just going to have to find my view retch worthy.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I never said all women want to be dominated in the way I've described for myself.

I *do* believe women (even the most dominant) who enjoy dominating men simply have yet to meet the right man. I also believe women naturally defer to a man who leads *well*. The right man, that is. Because I believe they want to.

I believe its inherent. And that is what I meant when I referenced domination in that respect. Most people - most men, even - cant handle *my* idea of physical domination. I would hardly say something so silly as all women want this.

If youd like to continue this conversation, Im happy to oblige - but your approach isnt necessarily conducive to civilized conversation. Im not an idiot. Talk to me, not at me.

You may not have said 'all' women want this, but you did say that you believe dominant women do. I disagree with that statement and believe I expressed my views very clearly, so I'm not planning to expound upon them.

As to your last statement, I was speaking directly to you and I don't believe I even remotely implied that you're an idiot. My approach was very civilized. I did not personally attack you in any way, shape, or form. As far as talking to you rather than at you, I did that as well. Cutie did the same. If you want to continue the debate about the rightness or wrongness of your opinion, I won't be involved in that. I said my piece and my view is pretty self-explanatory.

You asked a very specific question as your original post and people have responded to it. It's a bit late to act surprised that people don't necessarily hold to the same definition of dominance that you seem to. There are people here who fall all over the BDSM and D/s spectrum. Everyone has his/her own 'brand' of BDSM and D/s. As I stated in my post, I believe that you have the right to your opinions just as everyone else has the right to their opinions. Getting defensive because people don't understand you is a bit silly. As Cutie said, all we have to go on is the statements you make. If people misunderstand you, and you feel the need to address that, then address it by stating your position more clearly instead of hiding behind the passive-aggressive tactic of accusing them of talking at you or being uncivilized.

I've said what I felt the need to say and I won't be posting back on this thread. So feel free to flame away at your leisure.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Why thanks, sweet!

An, wrestling! That's just fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun!

Amen to that, sister.

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree. As a middle of the kinsey scale bi woman who has spent most of her life in the women's/lesbian community, I am certain that I have no secret desires to be dominated in this way.

Nah, I wasn't incorporating bi or lesbian women into that. My opinions on that specific matter are only about 100% straight women.

Also, Im fully aware tons of women would say they disagree with me on this, believe me! It something I think is more of a genetic predisposition. Its not a conclusion I came to overnight. But it is something I really think.

And Im well aware most people think its wrong.

I am curious as to why you think male dominance and female submission is "natural."

Biology, in part. But mostly its just something Ive spent a number of years researching. In relation to *all* primates - including humans. Obviously theres room for many theories. This is just the one I personally subscribe to. As a dominant female I also use myself as a benchmark.

In my early 20's, my thoughts were not dissimilar to those telling me what I think is disturbing.

The fact that many of us who are raised in these societies have had this social order deeply imprinted in our social wiring doesn't mean that it's "natural" or intrinsic to human nature.

I, personally, was raised by a very very dominant woman. Very much a feminist. I cant say I feel like I ever felt compelled to view mans role as dominant, equal or submissive. Im sure I was affected on a subconscious level, but when I was a child women's lib was massive. And it would stand to reason it would likely have had the opposite effect on me - if any. Which I dont think it did. Meaning, I dont feel my opinions have been influenced by society. Science/ biology/ psychology - yes.

Men did not dominate women in indigenous American peoples (rape was a concept introduced to them by Europeans), and Amazons did exist - in certain parts of lower Eastern Europe - archealogical digs have proven this.

Whoa, I'm not talking about rape. And Im not talking about men dragging women around by their hair or anything else. Really, Im not. Nor am I talking about men just wandering around taking any woman he wants, and the women swooning for him.

Im not saying this at all.

Among Bonobo/Pigmy chimps (our closest living relatives) females are socially dominant and rule their group in large part through sex...

Yes Ive studied quite a bit of chimp behavior - particularly the promiscuity of certain species.

As much as some might like to prove my opinion wrong (not you, specifically) its not possible. Its an opinion. Its just what I think. There are some ideas floating around this board that just make me blink in astonishment. But Im hardly critical of it, because I believe in free speech and free thought.

And until science proves or disproves my opinion, Im sticking to it.

P.S., Sorry, but I just can't resist, IsabellaSnow. I have had my boots / shoes kissed (a number of times) and I really, really love it...

Ill be sure and send the next man who offers to lick my boots over your way.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

You may not have said 'all' women want this, but you did say that you believe dominant women do.

I said I think all women want to be dominated.

And you have no idea what my definition of dominated is.

I disagree with that statement and believe I expressed my views very clearly

Ive no issue with your disagreement.

As to your last statement, I was speaking directly to you and I don't believe I even remotely implied that you're an idiot. My approach was very civilized. I did not personally attack you in any way, shape, or form. As far as talking to you rather than at you, I did that as well.

Telling someone their views are scary is less than civilized.

You asked a very specific question as your original post and people have responded to it. It's a bit late to act surprised that people don't necessarily hold to the same definition of dominance that you seem to.

My question - and the answers Ive received - have nothing to do with my definition of dominance. My definition was, and is, totally irrelevant to their explanations.

It only became relevant when you started in with your analogies and saying my opinions were "scary".

There are people here who fall all over the BDSM and D/s spectrum. Everyone has his/her own 'brand' of BDSM and D/s. As I stated in my post, I believe that you have the right to your opinions just as everyone else has the right to their opinions.

Which is why you called them scary?

If people misunderstand you, and you feel the need to address that, then address it by stating your position more clearly instead of hiding behind the passive-aggressive tactic of accusing them of talking at you or being uncivilized.

Passive agressive?

Is that like telling someone they can have their own thoughts - but then pointing out they are scary, disturbing and make them want to retch?

Or would that just be uneccesary?

 

[neonflux]

Amen to that, sister.

Whoa, I'm not talking about rape. And Im not talking about men dragging women around by their hair or anything else. Really, Im not. Nor am I talking about men just wandering around taking any woman he wants, and the women swooning for him.

Im not saying this at all.

I never assumed that you were, not for a minute. I just mentioned that because I do see rape as an act of power and was struck by this fact when I learned it - it made it so clear to me just how differently women were viewed in these cultures. (Also find it interesting that Viet Cong troops, among which women regularly fought as combatants rather than in "support" roles, committed much less rape.) While I don't believe that rape is a natural outcome of male dominance (I am certainly not a supporter of Andrea Dworkin, for instance) I do think that patriarchal societies make rape more permissable. I also think that they wound men greatly - in a society which shames men into denying what is feminine in them, rape becomes a much greater possibility.

As much as some might like to prove my opinion wrong (not you, specifically) its not possible. Its an opinion. Its just what I think. There are some ideas floating around this board that just make me blink in astonishment. But Im hardly critical of it, because I believe in free speech and free thought.

It's fine for you to include me as someone who would prove you wrong. And thank you for a civil conversation. I would be interested in knowing what you've found in your studies that convinces you that male "dominance" is natural.

Neon

Ill be sure and send the next man who offers to lick my boots over your way.

Oh, yes!

 

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