Rough & Loving It

[neonflux]

Never underestimate the 'power' of a review of peoples previous posts as a reasonable guide of their probable sincerity in this genre of information 'sharing'

OK, I know that I am being very dense here, but please explain?

 

[rosco rathbone]

Rough sex is how I express my deepest feelings about females.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Rough sex is how I express my deepest feelings about females.

Dare I ask what those might be?

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I never assumed that you were, not for a minute.

Phew.

I do think that patriarchal societies make rape more permissable. I also think that they wound men greatly - in a society which shames men into denying what is feminine in them, rape becomes a much greater possibility.

I can't really see this, but Ill buy the possibility of it.

I could be too tired to process the idea at the moment.

It's fine for you to include me as someone who would prove you wrong. And thank you for a civil conversation. I would be interested in knowing what you've found in your studies that convinces you that male "dominance" is natural.

Ill PM you links to some studies sometime in the next few days.

(They are on an old flash drive I have to dig out)

 

[CutieMouse]

I should so be asleep right now. But since I'm not:

Im the OP, so I guess youre apologizing to me?

I have my views. They arent going to change today.

Im not going to tell you yours make me want to retch. Nor am I going to label yours disturbing, or anything else.

This doesnt seem very productive, so I hope youll forgive me for saying youre just going to have to find my view retch worthy.

The thing I find "retch worthy" (and the thing I was cyber-retching at in my other post) is the attitude that there is a "true" way to dominate or submit. I can't think of a soul on the planet who could convince me to change my opinion of the "true" ___ in BDSM- which is that it is an elitist, snotty, exclusive, and weak excuse to hide behind.

I didn't voice my opinion with the intent to change your views- as much as I disagree with them. I voiced my opinion, because we are all free to speak our minds.

BTW- you are welcome to tell me my views are deranged, horrific, uncivilized, disturbing, gross, vomitious, or use whatever strong language you choose, to express disagreement with me. I hold quite a few opinions/views/thoughts on the Lifestyle, that people here wouldn't agree with, should I decide to share them publicly. Being disagreed with (even emphatically), doesn't bother me, in the least. *shrug*

 

[IsabellaSnow]

The thing I find "retch worthy" (and the thing I was cyber-retching at in my other post) is the attitude that there is a "true" way to dominate or submit.

Ive never - ever - said there was a true way to submit, or be dominated.

Nor did I imply there was a right or wrong way to do either.

I only ever stated my own personal preferences.

And said I dont consider some men to be dominant who call themselves Doms.

Just because a man thinks hed got it in him to dominate ME, doesnt mean he really does.

If you find this elitist and weak, ok.

BTW- you are welcome to tell me my views are deranged, horrific, uncivilized, disturbing, gross, vomitious, or use whatever strong language you choose, to express disagreement with me.

I wouldn't. I might ask why you thought something, but I would never apply any labels to your thoughts or opinions. Because they are yours, and not mine.

Being disagreed with (even emphatically), doesn't bother me, in the least. *shrug*

Did you think I cared that someone voiced disagreement with my opinion?

Nope.

I just thought the dissent could have been expressed more congenially.

This was supposed to be a pleasant thread.

 

[CutieMouse]

Then I apologize for reading something in your posts, that was not intended... some of your posts about women submitting to the 'right man', struck me as falling under the "true blahblahblah" umbrella. I will say again- I believe a lot of the misunderstanding boils down to the difficulties of written communication and "tone" of posts.

I never stated you, personally, were elitist and weak.

Again- I find the attitude of "true this " or "real that" in the context of BDSM, to be annoying. That does not mean that I take any issue with your opinion about men dominating you, or that I find you to be the things that I associate with the above attitude- especially since you are saying I misunderstand your posts.

From your responses, yes, I did infer that it bothered you to be disagreed with. Nice to know it didn't, and I am at a bit of a loss over the thread being unpleasant... people are disagreeing, and voicing opinions strongly, yes, but compared to many threads in the history of the BDSM forum, this one has remained quite congenial.

 

[Netzach]

I'm about as dominant as they come - and I would never want a man in my bed that I could coerce, conform, or control in any way shape or form.

I honestly think dominant women who think they want this simply have yet to meet truly dominant male.

Feel free to disagree.

Im sure the "dommes" will be quite displeased with the sentiment.

No, we're very used to people who think that what is true in their experience is true for the universe, like people who are certain the earth is flat.

Unlike a lot of people, I can state that my complete dissatisfaction and boredom and unfulfillment at the act of submission to a male in a sexual relationship is based in earnest attempts and moments of smashing success that felt as off to me as complete vanilla, even more so.

I have met, fucked, and submitted to a man capable of handling me and both parties found the situation unsatisfactory.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I am at a bit of a loss over the thread being unpleasant...

By the time "So feel free to flame away at your leisure" had been said, it was starting to go quite downhill. If not extremely off topic.

It clearly implied I was flaming.Which is something I really cant be arsed to do with someone Ive never met/will never meet.



Regardless - thank you for the apology, but theres really no need for it. Im quite used to people disagreeing with my opinions. It doesnt bother me in the slightest.

Its the added retch, scary, disturbing comments that I found bothersome.

But to get back on topic - when you said the bit about comparing the need for this to ones favorite color being blue -

Favorite colors can change, cant they? Mine certainly have.

As something mutable is it then still comparable to something as constant as a need??

Or can your needs also change?

In this particular case I dont think my needs will change.

Hope not, anyway.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Unlike a lot of people, I can state that my complete dissatisfaction and boredom and unfulfillment at the act of submission to a male in a sexual relationship is based in earnest attempts and moments of smashing success that felt as off to me as complete vanilla, even more so.

I have met, fucked, and submitted to a man capable of handling me and both parties found the situation unsatisfactory.

Interesting youve submitted at all.

More interesting youd use the words smashing success to describe it.

Makes the situation sound a bit forced, no pun intended.

Why bother at all?

Personally, Id never waste my time dominating a man. Its just too damned easy and bores the hell out of me. Not to mention turns me right off.

I dont doubt it gets other women going. I just think a real alpha (and they are so rare most of us havent met more than a handful) would get them going more.

And I rarely waver.

 

[Netzach]

Interesting youve submitted at all.

More interesting youd use the words smashing success to describe it.

Makes the situation sound a bit forced, no pun intended.

Why bother at all?

Personally, Id never waste my time dominating a man. Its just too damned easy and bores the hell out of me. Not to mention turns me right off.

I dont doubt it gets other women going. I just think a real alpha (and they are so rare most of us havent met more than a handful) would get them going more.

And I rarely waver.

Why bother?

Beacuse I don't decide what's for me without trying other things. Because I had someone I trusted to try some things out with and someone who wasn't a joke when it came to commanding (earning?) my respect.

Smashing success? Technically, yes. He asked, I jumped without hesitation. That does count as submission last I checked.

Because finding myself is an ongoing process.

And I've learned that the word "never" always has unfortunate aftertaste.

Frankly I and "most other women" don't care what you think would get us off, though it's humorous you're willing to put pronouncements out there.

But I'm not 100 percent straight either, so I'm probably way outside your intended generalizations.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Beacuse I don't decide what's for me without trying other things. Because I had someone I trusted to try some things out with and someone who wasn't a joke when it came to commanding (earning?) my respect.

Fair enough. I tend to just follow my instincts. Not really one to try things that the idea of already sits badly with.

Smashing success? Technically, yes. He asked, I jumped without hesitation. That does count as submission last I checked.

Does it?

Ive never jumped at the chance to be dominated. Does that mean it wasnt submission when they managed it?

Im asking your opinion, btw. I already have my own on it.

Because finding myself is an ongoing process.

And I've learned that the word "never" always has unfortunate aftertaste.

Again, fair enough.

Maybe Ive forgotten/ blacked out much of this process. It took a long time to get where I am and it almost feels like I never went through it. But I understand your point.

Frankly I and "most other women" don't care what you think would get us off, though it's humorous you're willing to put pronouncements out there.

Im quite secure in myself and my beliefs - my thoughts are not influenced by outside opinions.

Laugh away.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Frankly I and "most other women" don't care what you think would get us off, though it's humorous you're willing to put pronouncements out there.

Forgot to add:

If you (and they) dont, why spend so much time telling me Im wrong?

 

[Netzach]

Fair enough. I tend to just follow my instincts. Not really one to try things that the idea of already sits badly with.




Does it?

Ive never jumped at the chance to be dominated. Does that mean it wasnt submission when they managed it?

Im asking your opinion, btw. I already have my own on it.


I wouldn't argue it wasn't, sounds fair to me. You find the notion of being overpowered erotic, clearly. You go so far as to say any and every woman finds erotic overpowerment with a "real alpha" hot.

No, this one doesn't. Never did. Not in the movies, not in books, not in the many unfolding fantasies in my noggin. If there was coercion and control I was the one doing it.

If I was in a position of subervience, it was in honor of something in someone else I acknowledged, conscientiously and without struggle, as superior to me. There wasn't a struggle because it seemed somehow obvious and fitting, but fleeting and not *inherent* enough in me to be a sustainable way to relate to a man or a woman. Kissing boots is completely within my repetiore in this instance, although I have come to consider myself Dominant in my orientation.

I realize I constitute a minority in my sexuality.

Unnatural?
How is that possible? I'm here and no one made me this way.

Im quite secure in myself and my beliefs - my thoughts are not influenced by outside opinions.

Laugh away.

Honestly, do you think this is truly possible?
My thoughts are influenced by a barrage of opinions and facts and information. Which ones I adopt as mine are the ones I'll take responsibility for.

I really have no clue what turns other women on. I suspect you are quite right and the majority of hetero women are turned on by romance novel type ravishments, which have always left me cold or rolling my eyes, so I can't speak to what should or should not work about that. I only know it's never worked for me.

 

[Netzach]

Forgot to add:

If you (and they) dont, why spend so much time telling me Im wrong?

Because having your very existence called into question becomes an important issue when you are in a distinct minority. And while tiresome in the extreme the frequency with which it happens remains a little unsettling.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

You go so far as to say any and every woman finds erotic overpowerment with a "real alpha" hot.

This is incorrect.

I said dominated, not physically overpowered. They are not mutually exclusive.

If I was in a position of subervience, it was in honor of something in someone else I acknowledged, conscientiously and without struggle, as superior to me.

This is exactly what I mean by inherent. And this is exactly what real alpha males can and will effect in most people. Its a quiet thing, usually. Most people "submit" without even realizing they are doing it.

There wasn't a struggle

Youre confusing my statements regarding my own personal tastes - with my statement regarding women inherently wanting to be dominated/ led. Ive never said all women want to be physically overpowered.

because it seemed somehow obvious and fitting

Also fitting my definition of inherent.

Unnatural?
How is that possible? I'm here and no one made me this way.

I have to defer back to your earlier statement about being subeservient. IMO, your statements support mine. I realize you will vehemently disagree with me.

Its not about whether or not you like being dominant. Im not saying women dont like making men lick their boots. Or whatever else they get off on.

I could keep going over this but I cant really see the point. You think what you think. We simply disagree.

romance novel type ravishments, which have always left me cold or rolling my eyes

Most of them did me as well, which I why I started writing my own.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Because having your very existence called into question becomes an important issue when you are in a distinct minority. And while tiresome in the extreme the frequency with which it happens remains a little unsettling.

Which means you do care.

Relax, Im not saying women dont like being dominant.

Im not saying they dont find extreme pleasure in dominating men.

Im not saying its not natural.

Im not even necessarily talking about the scene - which is something I may not have made clear enough. I was speaking in generalities. But I do include women who scene in this.

I think straight women who are dominant and enjoy dominating men would enjoy being dominated by a true alpha male.

And I make no apologies for using "true" there.

Just because someone calls himself alpha, Dom, etc - and just because hes an expert in D/s play, does not make him an alpha. Alpha men - and women - are very rare. They dont announce themselves. They just are.

And my opinions are just that - my opinions.

Some of you have mentioned other comparisons (all lesbians just need a cock - all women want to have advances made on them - etc) which really dont apply to what Ive said. Which leads me to believe theres a sensitivity regarding other issues here that Im expected to take the fall for.

And I cant say Im digging that.

 

[briar_rose]

I think for me it definately equals freedom. Classic case scenario of - Im a strong independant woman and i love being able to feel vulnerable because it is a precious rare feeling, i can let down all the barriers and my body and mind and just absorb that 'fine line between pleasure and pain'.

I personally have a fetish for my man being very delicate and then grabbing me by the throat -fear instinict kicks in, but its a fucking glorious feeling to surrender to the utmost trust and love in the act, being collared with his hand. Its comforting, protecting.

lol

different from all of us. I think sexual acts, being a release of tension and energy, aare a great way of letting out the physcial frustration one experiences in a restricted lifestyle/mindset.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Im a strong independant woman and i love being able to feel vulnerable because it is a precious rare feeling,

In a nutshell, my dear.

Well said.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Dare I ask what those might be?

a powerful desire to yank their hair and have rough sex with them. [/circular logic]

 

[Netzach]

"This is exactly what I mean by inherent. And this is exactly what real alpha males can and will effect in most people. Its a quiet thing, usually. Most people "submit" without even realizing they are doing it."

Really?

I find most people too self-absorbed to notice this kind of power. Most of the men I've met with it are actually omega in the bedroom because people are following them all day long.

 

[Netzach]

Just because someone calls himself alpha, Dom, etc - and just because hes an expert in D/s play, does not make him an alpha. Alpha men - and women - are very rare. They dont announce themselves. They just are.

And my opinions are just that - my opinions.

Some of you have mentioned other comparisons (all lesbians just need a cock - all women want to have advances made on them - etc) which really dont apply to what Ive said. Which leads me to believe theres a sensitivity regarding other issues here that Im expected to take the fall for.

And I cant say Im digging that.

How is it different?

If X number of straight Dominant women say "I don't like that" or "I've done that and it wasn't for me" and you say "oh but you haven't REALLY done it" or "oh but you would like it if you REALLY did it" how is that any less problematic or simply INSULTING than the other comparisons?

I may hold the opinion that any guy who has to get his rocks off like Rosco is massively sexually insecure (RR would be the first to agree with me because he has balls-of-brass honesty compared to other Doms) but I would not expect stating it to go unchecked and I wouldn't act put upon when it did.

It's a tired and used strategy and it implies a number of other insulting things that the arguer will sidestep and claim persecution from the rabid feminist hordes.

1. that the dominant woman is somehow not part of the natural scheme (heteronormative)

2. that the dominant woman who has started on the bottom wasn't "really" being dominated by a "real" man or she would have seen the light

3. that lesbianism is some weird anomyly that the poster can't possibly address and has to work completely in some mysterious way which has no relevance to heterosexual relationships of a D/s nature "I wouldn't know how you ladies get it on without a REAL MAN involved so you just do whatever you do, you don't possibly stand to refute any of my arguments about men and women"

 

[Netzach]

a powerful desire to yank their hair and have rough sex with them. [/circular logic]

Pulling on some chick's hair and having rough sex with her definitely holds more appeal to me than another go around on the usual here.

We've always been able to agree, isn't it great?

 

[rosco rathbone]

Pulling on some chick's hair and having rough sex with her definitely holds more appeal to me than another go around on the usual here.

We've always been able to agree, isn't it great?

I was just thinking that the "quiet, masterful, people-just-find-themselves-obeying" thing doesn't apply to a single dom that I know. Most doms I know are like me--just regular guys with issues about getting their way with women.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Most of the men I've met with it are actually omega

My point, again.