Scat (no, i'm not talking about jazz)

[Aeroil]

You obviously have not had to clean up the mess after someone took a shotgun to their head.

As the person who is usually called after a suicide, i know it affects a whole host of people. Unlike other deaths, a suicide leaves a trail of hurt, guilt and anger behind them. I have done funerals for all sorts of people and suicides are the hardest. The feelings are the hardest for people to process. The suicide hurts a lot of other people--a LOT of other people. It is the cheap way out, as far as i am concerned.

for the record, i dont think suicides are condemned to hell, but i know they end up putting a lot of other people through hell.

call me a "brother's keeper" type guy, but i think we do have a responsibility to stay alive for others.

The ultimate story about this is from Buckminster Fuller, inventor the geodesic Dome. He lost his business, and a child (because he could not afford doctors for the boy) and he decided to do himself in by jumping into Lake Michigan in December. Standing on the shore it hit him--he did not belong to himself, he belonged the universe. The talents he had were given to him as a part of the processes of the universe (i am not sure that he believed in any kind of god or not) and he gave himself to the universe.

As doms and subs, we give ourselves to others, often in strange and wonderful ways, but we realize, at some basic level, we are not here just for ourselves.

Word.

But to what extent are we responsible for other people's feelings, AS?
Are we just obligated to do what other people want at the whim of their feelings?
A person committing suicide affects only them at it's core, and so it is that person's choice alone, and other people should not be factored into the thought process.

Of course, the cleanup afterwards, does affect others, best to keep things like that in mind when choosing your avenue of jumping into the spectre's arms......

 

[Netzach]

Which biz are you referring to?

I gotta get up on my existentialism game.

It's all Abraham and Isaac, it's all about the leap of faith etc.

 

[Marquis]

It's all Abraham and Isaac, it's all about the leap of faith etc.

If I read it, will you email me a nudie?

 

[Netzach]

Sure.







...of one of my boys!

 

[arctic-stranger]

It's all Abraham and Isaac, it's all about the leap of faith etc.

Fear and Trembling by Soren Kierkegaard.

 

[Marquis]

I think AS wants a nudie of one of your boys Netz.

 

[Aeroil]

Sure.







...of one of my boys!

lol, if he's tied up then maybe I can forward it to Mistress and get some praise .

 

[incubus'_sub]

I certainly don't feel threatened by anyone's extreme choices, nor do I feel any less a submissive by holding a different viewpoint. I doubt that Sunfox does either. All she & I have done is express our opinions which is the aim of forums such as these.

 

[lark sparrow]

A person committing suicide affects only them at it's core, and so it is that person's choice alone, and other people should not be factored into the thought process.

Of course, the cleanup afterwards, does affect others, best to keep things like that in mind when choosing your avenue of jumping into the spectre's arms......

Although I would agree to a "right" to die, a person committing suicide affects those that love and are close to them in extremely core ways. While surviving someone else's suicide, the thought of how profoundly suicide affects those left does indeed become a factor when thinking of your own right to die, in my experience.

Back to the ass/shit licking/eating.

 

[snowy ciara]

But to what extent are we responsible for other people's feelings, AS?
Are we just obligated to do what other people want at the whim of their feelings?
A person committing suicide affects only them at it's core, and so it is that person's choice alone, and other people should not be factored into the thought process.

Maybe it's just the subbie in me talking, but when I love someone, I don't want to hurt them. I don't want to cause them pain. When you love somebody and they love you back, you attain a higher level of responsibility for their personal well being. IMO you are not responsible for their complete happiness, but you have a responsibility to leave their lives a little better than you found it. Killing myself just doesn't fall into those parameters for me.

 

[sunfox]

For what it's worth, I didn't think Sunny was particularly derogatory towards osg. I read her most recent post through pretty carefully and I didn't see anything that smacked (sorry, couldn't resist) of scorn. osg HAS said that she is not capable of taking care of herself. I think that with that said, it's understandable how one could see her relationship as being a matter of necessity rather than choice. Sort of "female submitting to the dominant male in exchange for protection" evolution thing. Sunny arrived at a different conclusion than you and others did, B, but I don't think she did it to be mean.

And for the record, I'm pouting because I only got one response on what I thought was a really neat correlation between total (but not blind) obedience to God and total (but not blind) obedience to Master. Pout pout pout.

Thank you for comprehending what the kneejerk folks seem to be letting whiz on by repeatedly.

I clearly need to go around actually attacking a few people so that the rest will understand what an attack from me actually is.

Hopefully since it's coming from you, Quint, and not from me, it will sound like what it was.. pointing out the fact that osg herself has made these statements, which is where I am drawing my conclusion. It was not an attack.. unless you'd like to call it osg attacking herself.. which would be a bit on the weird side. But then, this whole spazmatic shebang has been odd from start to finish.

I doubt osg thought it was an attack. I may not lead the life she does, but that doesn't mean I dislike her or single her out. In fact, I honestly enjoy most of her threads because I know they rarely end up being boring.

Btw... I got your religious reference. I think it got taken to far into the 'why would anyone worship a Dominant like God' corner, but what can you do?

 

[Netzach]

How did we jump from poo to death anyways?


You'd think we'd have left in a few more rungs on the ladder, like genital mutilations, forced sex changes, ballbusting, dangerous trampling, forced lactation, I dunno....

a few more waystations between shit eating and snuff?

 

[sunfox]

I certainly don't feel threatened by anyone's extreme choices, nor do I feel any less a submissive by holding a different viewpoint. I doubt that Sunfox does either. All she & I have done is express our opinions which is the aim of forums such as these.

Threatened is code for dissenter, I'm thinking.

At least, that's been largely what I see here. Someone disagrees for whatever reason.. all the 'hardcore' folks leap in and say they're being mean and must feel threatened by their hardcore-ness... which leads me to my conclusion that disagreement = threatened meanie.

I'm pondering conducting a study.

I wonder if the fact that I'm joking now will get me either labeled mean or as someone mocking the seriousness of poop?

 

[sunfox]

How did we jump from poo to death anyways?


You'd think we'd have left in a few more rungs on the ladder, like genital mutilations, forced sex changes, ballbusting, dangerous trampling, forced lactation, I dunno....

a few more waystations between shit eating and snuff?

I think it was the 'eat shit and die' comment by KC. It's all her fault. Spank her.

And I just have to ask (morbid curiosity)... is there a non-dangerous trampling to go with the dangerous one?

 

[Netzach]

Oh I would say that trampling someone's pecs is relatively safe and the guy who says "no no stand on my face" is off in the land of deranged...

 

[Netzach]

I do serious humiliation play with my slave in my personal life. I don't think i'd force ingestion of brown or yellow anymore because I:

a) have intimate knowledge of bowel disorders and would wish one on no one at any cost

b) have meds in my system that might come out the other end in trace amounts and would not want them in anyone else

...however as crap goes the thought of leaving a fresh steaming pile on the slave is attractive in theory to me. I find it exceptionally crude nasty and humiliating in the extreme to someone so hungry for humiliation it's hard to actually shame and surprise him anymore. This would actually push even his piggy boundaries and make him work for it.

However it is very unattractive in reality because I don't have what I'd consider adequate ventilation to handle this situation. I'm not so hell bent on it that I have lost all squeamishness of my own.

 

[sunfox]

Oh I would say that trampling someone's pecs is relatively safe and the guy who says "no no stand on my face" is off in the land of deranged...

That makes sense.

I just couldn't wrap my thoughts around safe trampling It sounds like a bit of an oxymoron.

 

[arctic-stranger]

But to what extent are we responsible for other people's feelings, AS?
Are we just obligated to do what other people want at the whim of their feelings?
A person committing suicide affects only them at it's core, and so it is that person's choice alone, and other people should not be factored into the thought process.

Of course, the cleanup afterwards, does affect others, best to keep things like that in mind when choosing your avenue of jumping into the spectre's arms......

somewhat.
sometimes.

Suppose I think the best way to handle my rage is to lash out verbally at anyone who pisses me off, especially my loved ones. To what extent am i responsible for their feelings? We tease one another here, but i have noticed that when people get a bit too caustic, they usually get some kind of reprimand. and rightly so. If i think you are an insecure asshole (and for the record i dont think that of you--my amour actually thinks you are cute!) to what extent would i be responsible for your feelings if i constantly told you that? What if i were your father and constantly told you that you were an asshole? to what extent would i be responsible for your feelings then?

That fact is that suicides do more damage than they realize. Contrary to what Marquis assserted, i dont think suicide is the only death that leaves a wake of pain in its wake...i dont know where he got that idea. But i will say it leaves a disproportion share. And i say that from experience. I dare say i have had more experience with death than 90 percent of the board...from murder to suicide to accidental shootings...and by far suicide is that hardest for others to deal with.

Add to that the copy cat effect...when there is a suicide at a high school it is not unusual for there to be two more in quick succession, and the intentional or unintentional message that "death would be preferable to living with you," i would say suicide is , for the most part, the wrong solution for a temporary problem.

None of the suicidal people i have counselled, including those who were commited, are sorry i talked them out of it.


now, back to the other crap at hand, about which i am pretty much at a loss for words.

 

[Aeroil]

somewhat.
sometimes.

Suppose I think the best way to handle my rage is to lash out verbally at anyone who pisses me off, especially my loved ones. To what extent am i responsible for their feelings? We tease one another here, but i have noticed that when people get a bit too caustic, they usually get some kind of reprimand. and rightly so. If i think you are an insecure asshole 1.(and for the record i dont think that of you--my amour actually thinks you are cute!) to what extent would i be responsible for your feelings if i constantly told you that? 2. What if i were your father and constantly told you that you were an asshole? to what extent would i be responsible for your feelings then?

That fact is that suicides do more damage than they realize. Contrary to what Marquis assserted, i dont think suicide is the only death that leaves a wake of pain in its wake...i dont know where he got that idea. But i will say it leaves a disproportion share. And i say that from experience. I dare say i have had more experience with death than 90 percent of the board...from murder to suicide to accidental shootings...and by far suicide is that hardest for others to deal with.

Add to that the copy cat effect...when there is a suicide at a high school it is not unusual for there to be two more in quick succession, and the intentional or unintentional message that "death would be preferable to living with you," i would say suicide is , for the most part, the wrong solution for a temporary problem.

3. None of the suicidal people i have counselled, including those who were commited, are sorry i talked them out of it.


now, back to the other crap at hand, about which i am pretty much at a loss for words.

1. damn you AS, trying to distract me from the argument by giving me a big head .
2. Parents are responsible for the mental and physical well-being of their children, that's how.
3. That is true, often enough suicide is caused by a temporary fit of depression, those I don't defend, I defend moreover someone commiting suicide for an actual cause, or something caused by a more permanant state of depression.

 

[arctic-stranger]

1. damn you AS, trying to distract me from the argument by giving me a big head .
2. Parents are responsible for the mental and physical well-being of their children, that's how.
3. That is true, often enough suicide is caused by a temporary fit of depression, those I don't defend, I defend moreover someone commiting suicide for an actual cause, or something caused by a more permanant state of depression.

the problem is that temporary depression is eternal when you have it. So who is to say what is long term. and depressed people usually dont commit suicide. It is usually people who are actually getting better. The move upward gives them a sense of how down the really are.

 

[Aeroil]

the problem is that temporary depression is eternal when you have it. So who is to say what is long term. and depressed people usually dont commit suicide. It is usually people who are actually getting better. The move upward gives them a sense of how down the really are.

Yes I know, I've been borderline suicidal a few times before, you convince yourself that it's never gonna end, which is why you consider the suicide. My most recent one (3 years prior) was actually caused by me just being so damn sick and tired of being surrounded by so much corruption and chaos, even now it gives me a headache....
Had people heard about it though, and gotten involved, things would have gotten a lot, LOT worse, I was harbouring some damn wierd beliefs back then, we're talking cultish beliefs, and I was a step away from spilling them. Either way, I got out of it, and I just realized I probably strayed off-topic with this post.
ah well.....

 

[Marquis]

For what it's worth, I didn't think Sunny was particularly derogatory towards osg. I read her most recent post through pretty carefully and I didn't see anything that smacked (sorry, couldn't resist) of scorn. osg HAS said that she is not capable of taking care of herself. I think that with that said, it's understandable how one could see her relationship as being a matter of necessity rather than choice. Sort of "female submitting to the dominant male in exchange for protection" evolution thing. Sunny arrived at a different conclusion than you and others did, B, but I don't think she did it to be mean.

When you read osg's posts about her relationship, does she sound unhappy? Maybe she's not allowed to be unhappy.

Threatened is code for dissenter, I'm thinking.

At least, that's been largely what I see here. Someone disagrees for whatever reason.. all the 'hardcore' folks leap in and say they're being mean and must feel threatened by their hardcore-ness... which leads me to my conclusion that disagreement = threatened meanie.

I'm pondering conducting a study.

I wonder if the fact that I'm joking now will get me either labeled mean or as someone mocking the seriousness of poop?

Actually, as Catalina pointed out, you were the first person to turn it into a competition with this comment.

We're apparently not as perfect as the slaves, and therefore, our opinions don't matter.

No one else tried to evaluate or compare but you. You can tell me that this comment was a joke but I'm afraid you're not going to be able to convince me that you aren't just a little threatened by the idea of an extreme side to D/s. I am thrilled to be considered one of the 'hardcore' folks though.

As for your study, the only thing mean about you is your av. That character, in both the original and remake movies is the very prototype of the female I despise. Is this a coincidence or have you been probing my brain for ways to upset me?

None of the suicidal people i have counselled, including those who were commited, are sorry i talked them out of it.

Well I can certainly understand that. I have never gotten off a treadmill and wished I had called it quits earlier. But sometimes I gotta hit the stop button because I'm in shitty shape and I just can't take it.

Oh, and ...

Contrary to what Marquis assserted, i dont think suicide is the only death that leaves a wake of pain in its wake...i dont know where he got that idea.

Unlike other deaths, a suicide leaves a trail of hurt, guilt and anger behind them.

Word.

 

[Marquis]

and depressed people usually dont commit suicide. It is usually people who are actually getting better. The move upward gives them a sense of how down the really are.

I never really heard this before but it makes a scary amount of sense. Something to think about, and look out for. Thank you.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Actually, the comparison was originally made by Tainted B with her comment about ordinary schmucks who call themselves submissives as opposed to really committed slaves. As far as I can see, one's methods & ideas are formed to suit the needs & desires of each relationship. We are probably all equally hardcore in our own, but different, ways.

Scat, not for us. It stinks too much & we don't find bad smells in any way sexy.

One thing that has made me think though, was Tainted B's other comment that if she was owned, she would do whatever she was told. Now in Catalina's & osg's cases they are already in loving & committed relationships with people that they know & trust & I had thought that their power exchange would have taken place after the relationship was begun due to their interaction with their partners. Is this the case, or are there, as it seems, people who are prepared to eat poop, shoot themselves etc etc for any generic future master because they believe that that's the way it has to be for a slave?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Actually, your post made me think of the story where God tells Abraham to bring his son to the mountain as a sacrifice, only to switch him up for a lamb once he realizes old Abe's faith was legit. I play these sort of mind games with my subs quite a bit. I find it helpful to know the extent of one's submission before actually putting them in a difficult situation. Some scenes are hard to reel out of.

LOL, this has happened on more than one occasion in this household, and contrary to what many think, it builds trust (as long as it does not colour every activity). For me it shows me even more that I can trust him to use his better judgement and to protect and care for me unconditionally. I can see how from a Dominant's POV it demonstrates the depth to which the submissive will go for them though the end result does not require it to become a reality.

On another note (too lazy and rushed to make a seperate post to another quote etc., so will tack on to this post )....As to the discussion of suicide and knowing how it feels to be left behind, I think I can honestly say after enduring the last 9 months of hell after my own father's suicide I can personally qualify as knowing what it feels like, at least for me. Despite the pain I have felt, the thoughts and emotions, the grief, I respect it was his choice to make and for a big part I can understand his reasoning perfectly. A_S is correct in that many suicides are done once the person is in the upward phase coming out of a depressive episode, simply because it is only then they have the energy to carry it out. Depression of that extreme usually results in no energy to move or do anything so once it begins to ease back, the person is then able to motivate enough energy to do what they feel is necessary at that point in time. Coming from a family of depressives and suicidal thinkers though, I don't believe it is carried out totally devoid of depression....just it is a different level where activity is possible, sometimes only for a split moment in time.

Catalina