Scat (no, i'm not talking about jazz)

[Kajira Callista]

I don't see it as being obsessed anymore than doing the things you said you did for your Master. It comes down to how far you can be pushed and how your mind is wired. For many, and we fall into this realm, as Master he owns me so my life is not my own, it is his. As such in my eyes and heart he does have the right to decide what to do with it, though that does not mean it is always acceptable or easy for me. As I know he values having me here in person I don't expect he will be ordering me to kill myself anytime soon, but if he did and I obeyed, I would obviously be serving him by fulfilling to his command.

Similarly he has recently expressed he expects me to remain his property even if he dies....that means if he dies he can accept I might have sex with others, I may possibly have relationships, but I will never again submit to or be another's property. It is fairly heavy and certainly not for everyone, but it is as he expects and commands. Many women (and men) outside BDSM have similarly remained spiritually and emotionally connected to their deceased partner to the exclusion of all others for the remainder of their life and not been seen as obsessed for doing so. It is a matter of preference...I personally cannot imagine ever being this way with another, so as shocking as it might have initially seemed when he said it, it really isn't a huge stretch of my imagination to believe it would be so.

Catalina

Not saying that he would...but if he said to slit your throat and make sure your end result is death...you would do it and leave your children (who need you) and your family behind? Think about what you are saying and think about if another was saying it what you would tell them.
Anyone can say no anytime they want to...even an owned slave. If you said no the contract would be broken and you would be released, but you would still be alive. This is not fantasy land where people don't really die when they slit their throats, this is a for real thing. Its wonderful that you feel the devotion to that level but i would bet that if francisco loves you, he would expect that you said no to that command. My opinion is that it is unrealistic and immature for anyone to say that they would die for their Master.

lol as i was posting my opinion i just realized this has now turned into the eat shit and die thread

 

[WriterDom]

As to dying for your Master, it is no different to a vanilla person putting themselves in the path of a bullet (or other harmful incident) to save their partner, child, parent IMHO.
Catalina

No, not the same. It just means your stupid if you chose to die. Completely different than giving your life to save another.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Not saying that he would...but if he said to slit your throat and make sure your end result is death...you would do it and leave your children (who need you) and your family behind? Think about what you are saying and think about if another was saying it what you would tell them.
Anyone can say no anytime they want to...even an owned slave. If you said no the contract would be broken and you would be released, but you would still be alive. This is not fantasy land where people don't really die when they slit their throats, this is a for real thing. Its wonderful that you feel the devotion to that level but i would bet that if francisco loves you, he would expect that you said no to that command. My opinion is that it is unrealistic and immature for anyone to say that they would die for their Master.

lol as i was posting my opinion i just realized this has now turned into the eat shit and die thread

We don't have a contract....never got around to it. My point is as you also say, this is not a fantasy or game where everyone gets to go home to their safe and predictable lives as soon as something difficult or unexpected is asked for, it is a commitment and once made cannot just be revoked once it doesn't conform to the dream the slave/sub might have had.....that is why I always recommend people think carefully before making this commitment and know exactly what that commitment means.

Catalina

 

[WriterDom]

No, because I believe your right to throw your fist ends where my nose begins.

But until you hit my nose, whatever floats your boat man.

But that doesn't also apply to the slave, now dying from internal bleeding? Or is that somehow different. To be applauded even?

 

[Kajira Callista]

We don't have a contract....never got around to it. My point is as you also say, this is not a fantasy or game where everyone gets to go home to their safe and predictable lives as soon as something difficult or unexpected is asked for, it is a commitment and once made cannot just be revoked once it doesn't conform to the dream the slave/sub might have had.....that is why I always recommend people think carefully before making this commitment and know exactly what that commitment means.

Catalina

you seem to have overlooked this question:

Originally Posted by Kajira Callista
Not saying that he would...but if he said to slit your throat and make sure your end result is death...you would do it and leave your children (who need you) and your family behind?

 

[Netzach]

We dominants have this urge to see how far we are capable of pushing our property. When we have taken one hurdle, we start looking for another to take. In long term 24/7 relationships this translates to push boundaries to the extreme, often making the submissive do things not because Dominants necessarily enjoy the activity but because we can and want to see how far we can push our slaves/subs.

I've never fully understood this, and this is why I have no need to jump up and appplaud someone for being "hardcore". Here's how I run my relationship:

We do what I want. If that's more than you feel like doing tonight, dear, tough. (unless there's some really compelling reason, I can dig that)

If that's less than you feel like doing (just as likely) tough shit again. We're going to watch South Park and vegetate.

I have no interest in pushing boundaries just for the sake of pushing them, maintaining excitement, etc.

Would M die for me? I'm sure he would, as I would for him in the advent of the bullet, or what have you. However, this is completely moot as I need him ALIVE right now, very much!

Would my slave off himself if I told him to? Possibly. I can't believe we're off on this theoretical however. How, please someone explain to me, barring a right-to-die medical emergency situation, could you possibly argue that this kind of thing is "right" or "ok?"

Just from an ethical standpoint?

Personally, I can't fathom submitting to someone whose ethics would include seeing you splatter your brains on the wall for shits and giggles, but that's just non-slave me.

 

[WriterDom]

you seem to have overlooked this question:

Originally Posted by Kajira Callista
Not saying that he would...but if he said to slit your throat and make sure your end result is death...you would do it and leave your children (who need you) and your family behind?

Well, the state would step in and find foster care. My concern is with the forum. Would you be willing to put all the Mod power into the hands of Marquis?

 

[catalina_francisco]

you seem to have overlooked this question:

Originally Posted by Kajira Callista
Not saying that he would...but if he said to slit your throat and make sure your end result is death...you would do it and leave your children (who need you) and your family behind?

To answer it directly and specifically, yes, or at the very least negotiate a more acceptable/easy way for me to comply to his request......for many reasons.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Well, the state would step in and find foster care. My concern is with the forum. Would you be willing to put all the Mod power into the hands of Marquis?

LOL, not in my case as my children are now adults.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Would M die for me? I'm sure he would, as I would for him in the advent of the bullet, or what have you. However, this is completely moot as I need him ALIVE right now, very much!

Would my slave off himself if I told him to? Possibly. I can't believe we're off on this theoretical however. How, please someone explain to me, barring a right-to-die medical emergency situation, could you possibly argue that this kind of thing is "right" or "ok?"

Just from an ethical standpoint?

Personally, I can't fathom submitting to someone whose ethics would include seeing you splatter your brains on the wall for shits and giggles, but that's just non-slave me.

You sound not that unlike us, and I seriously doubt F wants me to make the exit, especially a messy one as it would take so much cleaning. Not to mention he has already gone to extremes to make sure I live and maintain as best health as I can under the circumstances.

But it seems on a cyclical basis this discussion of TPE always brings forth the question of 'would you kill yourself or someone if s/he asked you?' in what I often get the feeling comes back to using the most extreme scenarios trying to prove there is no such thing as TPE. Most of those I know of who commit knowingly to TPE and no limits hold to the ethic of honouring the commitment, but would never need or want to make it a reality just to stupidly prove they have ultimate power. My suggestion would be if anyone was contemplating making such an agreement with someone that immature and insecure (yes, to demand it to prove you could is immature) they think twice. As Netzach says, she has little doubt M would sacrifice himself for her if the situation arose, BUT she is not about to demand he do it to prove her point. Seems fairly simple and understandable IMHO.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Would you be willing to put all the Mod power into the hands of Marquis?

Oh, is there power in moderating in a voluntary basis on a discussion board?!! Damn I wish someone had told me that a long time ago so I could have made good use of it to get me all those goodies and favours I desire.

Catalina

 

[WriterDom]

Oh, is there power in moderating in a voluntary basis on a discussion board?!! Damn I wish someone had told me that a long time ago so I could have made good use of it to get me all those goodies and favours I desire.

Catalina

There is power if you use it. I'd give KC her own sticky for a blow job.

 

[catalina_francisco]

There is power if you use it. I'd give KC her own sticky for a blow job.

LOL, well I'm not into power but blowjobs could perhaps persuade me to revise my thoughts on that...of course there is only one man who could make it interesting for me, but he isn't about to give me power.

Catalina

 

[sunfox]

As Netzach says, she has little doubt M would sacrifice himself for her if the situation arose, BUT she is not about to demand he do it to prove her point. Seems fairly simple and understandable IMHO.

Catalina

It is simple and understandable.. but that's not what is being said. They're saying that while of course their partner/pyl/whatever would sacrifice themselves for them, which would fall under the heading of pulling them out of a burning building at expense of themselves, trying to charge in front of a bullet, etc.. actually just offing yourself because your Dominant says 'pull the trigger' is not a healthy action.

I would sacrifice myself for my daughter's life. I would defend her life with my own. I love C.. but he's on his own there, because if a gun is pulled on the two of them, my choice will be her. And his would be the same. I would have zero respect for him if he expected otherwise of me simply because I am submissive.

I see the difference. I don't know why other people don't.

And KC, I just cracked up at the 'eat shit and die thread' comment.

 

[bridgeburner]

Here's where I disagree with you.

How is something devotion when there's no other option?

There is always another option. You think osg didn't choose to submit to her Master? I doubt he snatched her off the street against her will. She made a choice and regardless of how she currently feels or what she believes might happen in the future, it is possible for her to change her mind at any time. She is owned in her mind. She's not owned by law. Nobody can make her stay in her current situation, indeed, no one is making her stay now. She wants to be there. She is devoted.

In my opinion, it would be magnitude of devotion for me to eat shit because C said so. Why? Because I don't have to do it. It would be my choice, and not done simply because he said 'do it'.

And that's how your submission works for you. Every time C tells you to do something you decide if you really want to. In osg's mind her submission works differently, but the mechanics are the same. She may not consciously question her every act of submission, but she obviously does choose to submit unless you're going to argue that she's a prisoner in her home and we ought to stage an intervention.

He could feasibly tell her to swallow razorblades and she'd quite possibly do it.

And how is that even remotely equivalent to sucking ass?

Shall we all coo and admire that?

I stated that I found it interesting. That's hardly cooing or admiring.
-B

 

[Kajira Callista]

Too many times i see slaves romanticize the control their Master has over them. I see typed over and over that they would put a gun in their own mouths and pull the trigger or slit their wrists or do things that would result in ....well.... death.
What they are refusing to realize is that it is not Master who controls what you do it is you who controls it to please him/her.
I have been used as human toilet paper and been shat upon in my lifetime...was it fun...nope it was fuckin' gross. Did i have a choice? At the time i didn't think that way, i just obeyed, without question. It was not a threat to my life or something that would damage me forever so i did it without a second thought.

Here is what pisses me off. When a slave says they would die for their Master or if they were told to kill themselves they would do it. If you would do that, then i see that as obsessed with, not devoted to serving Master. How the hell can you serve your Master if you are dead? And im betting that most dominants really wouldnt be interested in someone with such little regard for their own life.

One more thing...any sub/slave/whatever who sees a Master as anything more then a human being has issues that they need to resolve, and any Master who would allow their pyl to believe that Master was more then human is not a Master IMHO.

Since i don't feel like retyping what i said earlier in different words im just gonna quote it and be done.

 

[Kajira Callista]

And KC, I just cracked up at the 'eat shit and die thread' comment.

 

[Kajira Callista]

There is power if you use it. I'd give KC her own sticky for a blow job.

own sticky what? face? hair?

 

[bridgeburner]

So you are cool with her harming herself. But what if she is told to bake her baby in the microwave? Or drive her car into a crowded school crossing? Would you coo and admire that also?

Quick, somebody saddle up the horses! WD's been abducted by the Hysteria Fairy and she's dragging him off to Hyperbole Town!!


-B

 

[Kajira Callista]

Quick, somebody saddle up the horses! WD's been abducted by the Hysteria Fairy and she's dragging him off to Hyperbole Town!!


-B

hi bb

 

[sunfox]

Why do you feel you need to make this into a contest? Tainted B hasn't, bridgeburner hasn't, I explicitely said it was not a contest, and I have not seen osg infer in this thread she is better because she is a slave either. It is a matter of choice....just as you are happy with the terms of your submission because they suit you, so am I with mine because for me it is the only way it works and keeps me interested. Doesn't mean I feel a need to qualify those terms and give them a perfection rating though, especially as I don't believe in perfection.

Catalina

I didn't make it a contest. I said explicitly that I was clearly not as perfect as those who could blithely off themselves because their Master needed to check out his power trip and make sure it was working properly, just because I think there is a level of insanity in that. Therefore, since I admitted I was not capable of being IN the contest, there can't actually be one.

Nor did I say that osg, TB, or BB said they were better. I was just commenting that they were clearly superior.

Thou shalt not infer.

 

[bridgeburner]

hi bb

Hiya Kace,

Love the current AV!

-B

 

[sunfox]

There is always another option. You think osg didn't choose to submit to her Master? I doubt he snatched her off the street against her will. She made a choice and regardless of how she currently feels or what she believes might happen in the future, it is possible for her to change her mind at any time. She is owned in her mind. She's not owned by law. Nobody can make her stay in her current situation, indeed, no one is making her stay now. She wants to be there. She is devoted.

Actually, she has stated time and again that she is incapable of taking care of herself. That her Master is her caretaker and protector as much as Master.. so again I have to disagree that it is devotion.. it is obedience.

That she -has- devotion to him, I don't question. But that she obeys things without question out of devotion, that I disagree with as a total truth.

And that's how your submission works for you. Every time C tells you to do something you decide if you really want to. In osg's mind her submission works differently, but the mechanics are the same. She may not consciously question her every act of submission, but she obviously does choose to submit unless you're going to argue that she's a prisoner in her home and we ought to stage an intervention.

I'll be honest here and say that even if she was a prisoner in her home, I probably wouldn't give much of a shit. I've never said I was altruistic, or even remotely interested in people's safety other than my own loved ones. I suffer from a woeful lack of pity for humankind on a larger scale... particularly when someone puts themself in a bad situation of their own accord.

I'd have to view that as Darwinian.

I stated that I found it interesting. That's hardly cooing or admiring.
-B

That particular comment was more directed towards Marquis than you. I should have clarified... so yeah, I knew you said you found it interesting. Thanks for the reply.

 

[WriterDom]

With all that said, were I owned at this very moment and my master told me to walk away from the computer, put a gun to my head and kill myself, I would do it, even though it terrifies me. .

What if your Master became clinically depressed and decided he no longer wanted to live. And ordered you to put a gun to his head and kill him. Would you do it?

 

[Netzach]

I'm re-stating what I said in a more graphic way:

If you blithely get your ass enslaved to someone who is that cavalier about human life, it says something about them and you.

I'm not talking about a date-gone-wrong-end-up-in-a-barrel thing. I'm talking about making relationship choices.

I can safely say that there is NO circumstance in the world that would cause me to tell my property to snuff itself, and they know that. The answer to the question would be, unequivocally, "Mistress would never ask that, so it's a moot point." Not "yes I would" not "no I would not."