Scat (no, i'm not talking about jazz)

[CutieMouse]

For the record, I'm anti-poop. I don't want to smell it or look at it or have it in my mouth. That being said, I find the idea that osg can overcome her personal revulsion because of the magnitude of her devotion quite interesting.

My s-i-l thinks poop is gross, too. Or at least she did before she had a baby. Now her entire world is about poop. Is the baby pooping? Has he pooped today? How soon will he poop? Oooh, look at that poop, isn't it too big? too soft? too dark? too cute!! Seriously, she called me over the other day when she was changing his diaper and said "Look! Isn't that a cute little poo?" I have seen my brother pluck a dingleberry from the bare bottom of his 4yo son without batting an eye. One's feelings about poop can obviously be influenced by one's relationship to the pooper.

I am resovled never to have children for this reason alone.


-B

I've been a mom for almost 11 years now. And have had at least once child in diapers for that entire time... in discussions regarding scat my universal opinion on it is- after being in charge of tens of thousands of diapers changes, it would take a very very very special man to convince me there is anything erotic or otherwise sexy about poop.

I've actually had a conversation that left me seeing the possibiliteis of scat in a Romantic D/s relationship. It still squicks me out, I'm not sure I'll ever really kill off that limit, but I can comprehend it now which is something I never could do before.

 

[Marquis]

Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

There is a difference between honest dissent and an attempt to enhance one's position by smacking down on others. If you want to be a bad-ass you have to be able to take your licks when somebody points out that you're being an asshole. It's in the Bad-Ass Bylaws.

No one here has promoted eating shit. It's ridiculous to keep yapping about it. No one has suggested that ingesting any amount of shit is without risks. It has been suggested that most people don't know much about the actual risks as opposed to the commonly imagined risks.

The issue here isn't shit as a fetish, but service and devotion and how limits can be pushed and expanded to include even the ingestion of feces.


-B

BB, you gotta be the biggest badass on this board.

Remind me never to fuck with you.

 

[sunfox]

For the record, I'm anti-poop. I don't want to smell it or look at it or have it in my mouth. That being said, I find the idea that osg can overcome her personal revulsion because of the magnitude of her devotion quite interesting.

Here's where I disagree with you.

How is something devotion when there's no other option?

In my opinion, it would be magnitude of devotion for me to eat shit because C said so. Why? Because I don't have to do it. It would be my choice, and not done simply because he said 'do it'.

Whereas, that is not the case with osg.. she has no option of saying no, so it takes away, for me at least, quite a lot of the 'wow, that must be love/devotion/adoration/excellent service' factor.

He could feasibly tell her to swallow razorblades and she'd quite possibly do it.

Shall we all coo and admire that?

 

[Marquis]

Shall we all coo and admire that?

I would.

She has as much choice as any other sentient being, she's not posting from a concentration camp.

 

[TaintedB]

Perhaps because animals can't give consent that bestiality is no different than rape?
.

This is so sick I hardly know where to begin.

The great majority of animals cannot be raped because they have no consciousness of rape, they simply do not have any of the sick Puritan attitudes that inspire those of us who mistakenly project our own complex human thoughts and emotions onto them. Animals do, however, know what pain is. That is obvious to see from their whimpers, yelps, groans, and screams. Yet we eat their meat, giving tacit consent to the inhuman and extremely agonizing ways they are raised and, sometimes, slaughtered. Some animals have emotions and clearly are conscious of being rejected and hurt, and yet we abandon our pets at the drop of a hat, leaving to fend for themselves on the streets, friendless, diesased and alone. Or we keep them and beat them, making them distrust and fear all humans. Animals get tired. But that doesn't stop a lot of us from working or "training" the ones whose muscles we use for various reasons till they are injured and worn out. Animals like to roam freely in the large outdoors. All animals seem to love this. But we coop them up in cages or in apartments, we have "indoors" cats or dogs, who seldom smell the grass or other wonderful smells, seldom get a chance to just _run_ and _Run_ without bumping into something like a wall, seldom get to indulge their animal natures and hunt for food, be it vegetables, bugs, or other animals.

We do a lot of incredibly horrible things to animals. Somehow, ignoring all of this human cruelty and focusing in on giving an animal a pleasant orgasm, which it, due to its having no uptight puritan morals or scruples, simply enjoys, and calling it "rape" seems the most ludricous of positions to hold. Going on and on about how a creatue with no consciousness of rape and which most often actively and very happily participates in it's own so-called rape in the face of all the other types of horror and cruelty visited upon animals seems similar to someone obsessively focusing on their OWN need to wash a spot of dirt off the collar of a person who's just been hit by a car and is trying desperately, as consciousnes quickly fades, to hold his own spilled guts within his body.

What the _hell_ is wrong with your priorities, people??? Sheesh!

 

[sunfox]

I would.

She has as much choice as any other sentient being, she's not posting from a concentration camp.

Ask her about that... if told to do something by her Master, if she'd say no.

I never said she was wrong for doing it. What I said was attributing some amazing amount of devotion to someone who does whatever they're told without question is a false use of the term devotion.

Obedience, yes.

Devotion, no.

 

[sunfox]

This is so sick I hardly know where to begin.

The great majority of animals cannot be raped because they have no consciousness of rape, they simply do not have any of the sick Puritan attitudes that inspire those of us who mistakenly project our own complex human thoughts and emotions onto them.

I'm not gonna dive into the animal thing, TB.. you know how I feel about it, and I don't see the merit of having that argument again.

I'm just curious to see if I read that right.

Are you saying that humans can't be raped either? That it's a Puritanical attitude that makes us call nonconsentual sex rape?

Just wondering.

 

[WriterDom]

I would.

She has as much choice as any other sentient being, she's not posting from a concentration camp.

So you are cool with her harming herself. But what if she is told to bake her baby in the microwave? Or drive her car into a crowded school crossing? Would you coo and admire that also?

 

[TaintedB]

Here's where I disagree with you.

How is something devotion when there's no other option?

In my opinion, it would be magnitude of devotion for me to eat shit because C said so. Why? Because I don't have to do it. It would be my choice, and not done simply because he said 'do it'.

Whereas, that is not the case with osg.. she has no option of saying no, so it takes away, for me at least, quite a lot of the 'wow, that must be love/devotion/adoration/excellent service' factor.

He could feasibly tell her to swallow razorblades and she'd quite possibly do it.

Shall we all coo and admire that?

A very honest and direct answer to your last question Sunfox: Yes. Absolutely. In spades, in fact. Perfect obedience in the face of terrible adversity (and imaging what razor blades or even, for that matter, what shit is going to do to you just before you swallow either one is terrible adversity in my book) is an amazing and rare trait and worth every ounce of admiration it gets. Obedience of that level of intensity takes incredible courage and incredible personal strength of will. Your dominant can do a lot for you, but he cannot swallow the shit or blades for you. Only you can do that. And if you have the kind of a relationship where you've agreed to do _whatever_ your master tells you to do, and you love him and trust him completely, and he orders you to swallow shit heaped on razors blades and then you suddenly decide to disobey him, well then you, my dear, you may pat yourself on the back and tell yourself sweet little lies about how sane and realistic you are, but in truth you are nothing in that moment but but a worthless, spineless chickenshit. I'll go into the why's of this in a second. Let me just say here that being a good, obedient slave is a hard, hard gig, if you're not just playing at it. It takes two wills of steel for it to work, but the one inside you is just as important as the one inside your master. Dominants who take slaves--real slaves, I mean, not "let's just play at this until it gets boring or hard" slaves--know this latter fact and among the flocks of submissives that tend to crowd around their feet, select for this sort of steely resolve, because control and being obeyed is extraordinarily important to them.

Now lets float back down to the good old solid reality that we all know from the rather rarified atmosphere of obedient slavery. In good old solid reality, your master is probably not going to order you to swallow razor blades because these will cause extreme, irrevokable and instant damage to you. In reality your master usually loves his slave and wants to take care of her, or at very least--and this low level of regard is actually kind of rare--desires for quite selfish reasons that she live a long life serving him, as replacing her will be rather hard to do giving the low quality of raw material out there. :/ Also, in reality, at least on the planet I live on, shit is not in the same league with razor blades, hell, it's not even in the same ballpark! You _might_ get deathly ill from eating shit. The fact that OSG has been doing it for quite some time now (I believe she mentioned years?) and is still around to upset people in this forum by talking about it rather mitigates against that idea, however, no matter how good it sounds on paper. Sure, duh, obviously, a person _can_ get very sick from eating shit. Equally obvious is the fact that a whole lot of people don't. (shrug) While I don't eat shit, I never wash my wounds, if I am not ordered to that is, I never disinfect, I get myself in the dirtiest and messiest of situations, getting all sorts of crap into open cuts and sores, and I haven't been sick, not a single one-day cold, in over ten years. Human bodies vary widely in this regard, and OSG's master clearly knows what her body can take. Had she gotten seriously ill shortly after her first ass-cleaning, I doubt he'd have had her continue doing it. Once again, it bears repeating that it's a part of this reality business that our masters tend to love us, or at very least want to keep us around for a long time, and, if they see us being harmed by something, no matter how gratifying that something is to them, they'll usually quit it (or make us quit it).

With all that said, were I owned at this very moment and my master told me to walk away from the computer, put a gun to my head and kill myself, I would do it, even though it terrifies me. Why? One big part of the reason would be because I loved him and I trusted him absolutely to know what the right thing for me to do at any time was (I'd never become someone's slave without having that absolute certainty in his judgement--not about everything in the world, but most definitely about me and what is best for our relationship). But the biggest reason why I would instantly and immediately pull the trigger, despite my terror, is because I _could_. A little diamond-hard core inside me, I call it my self-regard, would say, I committed to doing everything this man tells me to do. I did so with a clear head and full knowledge of all raminfications of such an oath. He is clearly not insane or confused or deluded in any fashion. He is completlely himself and he's telling me to shoot myself. Despite my terror of pain or death to come, living with fact that I hadn't even the minimal inner fortitude to keep my word about such a basic and simple thing would be far, far worse. Living with the knowledge that when I promised to obey him as best I could, it was merely a sleazy, lying "good times only" promise that I didn't really mean (I'll do it master, but ONLY if it's super easy to do!) would be a hell I will personally not put myself through. I like myself too damned much for that.

There's another aspect of this complicated matter of power that needs to be mentioned. Notice above that I said "put a gun to my head" not "swallow razorblades"? I made this switch on purpose, because I was thinking about myself in this circumstance, not OSG or Sunfox or anybody else. If I were lovingly owned by someone who knew me very well, he would know that no matter how much I wanted to obey him I probably could not bring myself to do that specific act: swallow razor blades on my own. I would try and fail, and I'd beg him in tears to tie me up and do it to me instead, as I couldn't bring myself to do it on my own. If the motivation were high enough (i.e., my not swallowing them would mean he would be tortured in some even worse way) I might be able to. But just on my own, without any clear dire consequences for my not doing it? Probably not. Knowing me intimately (you have to know somebody very well if you hope to have any chance of controlling them), he would know all of that, and also know that despite my fear, I could probably manage a gun. So if he wanted me to kill myself for some reason, he'd order me to do it in a way that was within my personal capabilities, to increase the liklihood of success. This similar to not ordering somebody to fly you across the country if they've never sat behind the controls of a plane or flight simulator. If they're a good obedient slave, they'll try it anyway because it's what you ordered, and probably get you both killed if they manage to get off the ground, but a strong will is not magic: it doesn't give you advanced capabilities or knowledge that you did not have before. A slave who obediently tries to fly a plane when she doesn't know how will fail at it. A slave who tries to swallow razor blades when she doesn't know how (ie doesn't know how to bring herself to experience such pain) will also fail at it. A smart owner and controller of human beings, knows their controlled one's abilities, strengths, and weaknesses very well, and doesn't order them to do stupid things beyond their power...until or unless, of course, he trains them in the skills he wishes them to exercise.

Slavery is hardcore. It's not for everyone, in fact it's not for most people. But if you can (and more importantly, _need_) to commit to doing absolutely everything someone tells you to do--no matter what--to the very best of your abilities, it can be a wonderful way to life. Scratch that. It is by far the _best_ way to live--for those of us with hardcore needs. Despite how difficult it is to be an obedient slave (and it can and does get very, very hard: even when you're only required to do that which is within your personal abilities, that doesn't mean that it will be all easy and smooth--far fucking from it!) there's nothing better in the world for those of us who are wired that way. It's like having our heaven on earth. And committed, obedient slaves like OSG are the kinds of people I admire most in this world, perhaps because I know from personal experience just hard hard it is, at times, to do what she does.

So while I am not the "cooing" sort (I don't exactly get my kicks from condescending to others), you bet I would applaud OSG. And applaud. And applaud some more. Someone who is capable of obeying, even when it's only most of the time and not all of the time, even if it's only in those things which are within her personal abilities, is so far beyond what the ordinary schmuck who calls herself a submissive can do, that such ability deserves my highest admiration and acknolwedgement. I had been lax in doing so in this thread, so I thank you for reminding me of my manners, Sunfox.

 

[incubus'_sub]

I'm with Sunfox here. I see nothing whatsoever to applaud in totally mindless obedience. To me it doesn't mean love or devotion or in fact anything other than not having either the brains or the motivation to think for yourself. I don't even see a power exchange in these extreme situations. So you put a gun to your head & blow your brains out on command, do you think that you'll be around after to congratulate yourself on your supreme obedience?

I'm just one of the ordinary schmucks who calls herself a submissive. Fortunately my Master does not require me to eat poop or shoot myself to prove anything to him.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I tend to think that a lot of the problem isn't the lack of receptiveness to the controversial topic itself, so much as the way that those who are pro-whatever get all bent out of shape if someone posts saying they're not into it for whatever reason. The instant 'well if you don't like it, you're not open minded' method of attacking that seems to start a lot of fights.

But maybe that's just me.

Partly true, but the opposite side of the coin is those who are not into the said topic also often get bent out of shape and express their dislike in a derogatory, judgemental, fun poking, and/or invalidating way. Those are the remarks which inhibit such discussions on this forum (and yes, are often cited as being closed minded) as they make it clear it is not a safe place to discuss anything outside the accepted norm of this forum at any given time and difficult for those who might want to do no more than ask questions, explore possibilities, or discuss being asked to do the said activity because they feel they are going to become targets if they so much as even support the conversation taking place.

It is a sad fact that many who do put down a topic in a very agressive or derogatory manner....and yes, most of us have done so at some point...later find a liking for that same activity. I recall a time way back when we were jumped on heavily for saying we enjoyed a particular activity (won't name it as I don't want to highlight anyone or start up old arguments)....we were told we were irresponsible to tell the person asking that it was a great experience, that it could easily be done safely etc., and that we should have said it was far too dangerous and should never be tried, and we should also stop enjoying it ourselves. Now this activity is something most on the 'present board' of posters have tried and most enjoy, and the original strongly opposed poster now posts about enjoying and craving it themselves. It comes down to people remembering we are individuals, we do have the right to choose for ourselves, and we are at varying stages of our journeys and have varying limits and ideas of what is personally acceptable for us in any given moment.

It is also worth remembering a little thing called submission which means to some they do what is asked of them, not what they would ask for necessarily. It does not mean they condone it, nor like or want it, nor get off on it, nor find it easy, it means they submit. In those moments it is often a great asset to know you can come to a forum and talk about the issue, gain tips perhaps on how to submit to it, hear other experiences, just talk about it and let it out.....being attacked or ostracized for submitting does not help anyone, least of all the person who is submitting.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

This is so sick I hardly know where to begin.

The great majority of animals cannot be raped because they have no consciousness of rape, they simply do not have any of the sick Puritan attitudes that inspire those of us who mistakenly project our own complex human thoughts and emotions onto them. Animals do, however, know what pain is. That is obvious to see from their whimpers, yelps, groans, and screams. Yet we eat their meat, giving tacit consent to the inhuman and extremely agonizing ways they are raised and, sometimes, slaughtered. Some animals have emotions and clearly are conscious of being rejected and hurt, and yet we abandon our pets at the drop of a hat, leaving to fend for themselves on the streets, friendless, diesased and alone. Or we keep them and beat them, making them distrust and fear all humans. Animals get tired. But that doesn't stop a lot of us from working or "training" the ones whose muscles we use for various reasons till they are injured and worn out. Animals like to roam freely in the large outdoors. All animals seem to love this. But we coop them up in cages or in apartments, we have "indoors" cats or dogs, who seldom smell the grass or other wonderful smells, seldom get a chance to just _run_ and _Run_ without bumping into something like a wall, seldom get to indulge their animal natures and hunt for food, be it vegetables, bugs, or other animals.

We do a lot of incredibly horrible things to animals. Somehow, ignoring all of this human cruelty and focusing in on giving an animal a pleasant orgasm, which it, due to its having no uptight puritan morals or scruples, simply enjoys, and calling it "rape" seems the most ludricous of positions to hold. Going on and on about how a creatue with no consciousness of rape and which most often actively and very happily participates in it's own so-called rape in the face of all the other types of horror and cruelty visited upon animals seems similar to someone obsessively focusing on their OWN need to wash a spot of dirt off the collar of a person who's just been hit by a car and is trying desperately, as consciousnes quickly fades, to hold his own spilled guts within his body.

What the _hell_ is wrong with your priorities, people??? Sheesh!

Very true.....and as of last week we are the proud owners of 2 abandoned cats who still have not completely gotten used to the idea they are not going to be abused or thrown out. LOL, they are slowly taking over the household though, one tentative step at a time. Still amazes me most people are willing to accept war and killing of other humans (and animals) is acceptable and necessary, but sexual pleasure is something which needs to be controlled and limited when done between consenting beings. More often than not a person who robs a bank or imbezzles funds gets a bigger jail sentence than someone who murders or assaults another.

Catalina

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

A very honest and direct answer to your last question Sunfox: Yes. Absolutely. In spades, in fact. Perfect obedience in the face of terrible adversity (and imaging what razor blades or even, for that matter, what shit is going to do to you just before you swallow either one is terrible adversity in my book) is an amazing and rare trait and worth every ounce of admiration it gets. Obedience of that level of intensity takes incredible courage and incredible personal strength of will. Your dominant can do a lot for you, but he cannot swallow the shit or blades for you. Only you can do that. And if you have the kind of a relationship where you've agreed to do _whatever_ your master tells you to do, and you love him and trust him completely, and he orders you to swallow shit heaped on razors blades and then you suddenly decide to disobey him, well then you, my dear, you may pat yourself on the back and tell yourself sweet little lies about how sane and realistic you are, but in truth you are nothing in that moment but but a worthless, spineless chickenshit. I'll go into the why's of this in a second. Let me just say here that being a good, obedient slave is a hard, hard gig, if you're not just playing at it. It takes two wills of steel for it to work, but the one inside you is just as important as the one inside your master. Dominants who take slaves--real slaves, I mean, not "let's just play at this until it gets boring or hard" slaves--know this latter fact and among the flocks of submissives that tend to crowd around their feet, select for this sort of steely resolve, because control and being obeyed is extraordinarily important to them.

Now lets float back down to the good old solid reality that we all know from the rather rarified atmosphere of obedient slavery. In good old solid reality, your master is probably not going to order you to swallow razor blades because these will cause extreme, irrevokable and instant damage to you. In reality your master usually loves his slave and wants to take care of her, or at very least--and this low level of regard is actually kind of rare--desires for quite selfish reasons that she live a long life serving him, as replacing her will be rather hard to do giving the low quality of raw material out there. :/ Also, in reality, at least on the planet I live on, shit is not in the same league with razor blades, hell, it's not even in the same ballpark! You _might_ get deathly ill from eating shit. The fact that OSG has been doing it for quite some time now (I believe she mentioned years?) and is still around to upset people in this forum by talking about it rather mitigates against that idea, however, no matter how good it sounds on paper. Sure, duh, obviously, a person _can_ get very sick from eating shit. Equally obvious is the fact that a whole lot of people don't. (shrug) While I don't eat shit, I never wash my wounds, if I am not ordered to that is, I never disinfect, I get myself in the dirtiest and messiest of situations, getting all sorts of crap into open cuts and sores, and I haven't been sick, not a single one-day cold, in over ten years. Human bodies vary widely in this regard, and OSG's master clearly knows what her body can take. Had she gotten seriously ill shortly after her first ass-cleaning, I doubt he'd have had her continue doing it. Once again, it bears repeating that it's a part of this reality business that our masters tend to love us, or at very least want to keep us around for a long time, and, if they see us being harmed by something, no matter how gratifying that something is to them, they'll usually quit it (or make us quit it).

With all that said, were I owned at this very moment and my master told me to walk away from the computer, put a gun to my head and kill myself, I would do it, even though it terrifies me. Why? One big part of the reason would be because I loved him and I trusted him absolutely to know what the right thing for me to do at any time was (I'd never become someone's slave without having that absolute certainty in his judgement--not about everything in the world, but most definitely about me and what is best for our relationship). But the biggest reason why I would instantly and immediately pull the trigger, despite my terror, is because I _could_. A little diamond-hard core inside me, I call it my self-regard, would say, I committed to doing everything this man tells me to do. I did so with a clear head and full knowledge of all raminfications of such an oath. He is clearly not insane or confused or deluded in any fashion. He is completlely himself and he's telling me to shoot myself. Despite my terror of pain or death to come, living with fact that I hadn't even the minimal inner fortitude to keep my word about such a basic and simple thing would be far, far worse. Living with the knowledge that when I promised to obey him as best I could, it was merely a sleazy, lying "good times only" promise that I didn't really mean (I'll do it master, but ONLY if it's super easy to do!) would be a hell I will personally not put myself through. I like myself too damned much for that.

There's another aspect of this complicated matter of power that needs to be mentioned. Notice above that I said "put a gun to my head" not "swallow razorblades"? I made this switch on purpose, because I was thinking about myself in this circumstance, not OSG or Sunfox or anybody else. If I were lovingly owned by someone who knew me very well, he would know that no matter how much I wanted to obey him I probably could not bring myself to do that specific act: swallow razor blades on my own. I would try and fail, and I'd beg him in tears to tie me up and do it to me instead, as I couldn't bring myself to do it on my own. If the motivation were high enough (i.e., my not swallowing them would mean he would be tortured in some even worse way) I might be able to. But just on my own, without any clear dire consequences for my not doing it? Probably not. Knowing me intimately (you have to know somebody very well if you hope to have any chance of controlling them), he would know all of that, and also know that despite my fear, I could probably manage a gun. So if he wanted me to kill myself for some reason, he'd order me to do it in a way that was within my personal capabilities, to increase the liklihood of success. This similar to not ordering somebody to fly you across the country if they've never sat behind the controls of a plane or flight simulator. If they're a good obedient slave, they'll try it anyway because it's what you ordered, and probably get you both killed if they manage to get off the ground, but a strong will is not magic: it doesn't give you advanced capabilities or knowledge that you did not have before. A slave who obediently tries to fly a plane when she doesn't know how will fail at it. A slave who tries to swallow razor blades when she doesn't know how (ie doesn't know how to bring herself to experience such pain) will also fail at it. A smart owner and controller of human beings, knows their controlled one's abilities, strengths, and weaknesses very well, and doesn't order them to do stupid things beyond their power...until or unless, of course, he trains them in the skills he wishes them to exercise.

Slavery is hardcore. It's not for everyone, in fact it's not for most people. But if you can (and more importantly, _need_) to commit to doing absolutely everything someone tells you to do--no matter what--to the very best of your abilities, it can be a wonderful way to life. Scratch that. It is by far the _best_ way to live--for those of us with hardcore needs. Despite how difficult it is to be an obedient slave (and it can and does get very, very hard: even when you're only required to do that which is within your personal abilities, that doesn't mean that it will be all easy and smooth--far fucking from it!) there's nothing better in the world for those of us who are wired that way. It's like having our heaven on earth. And committed, obedient slaves like OSG are the kinds of people I admire most in this world, perhaps because I know from personal experience just hard hard it is, at times, to do what she does.

So while I am not the "cooing" sort (I don't exactly get my kicks from condescending to others), you bet I would applaud OSG. And applaud. And applaud some more. Someone who is capable of obeying, even when it's only most of the time and not all of the time, even if it's only in those things which are within her personal abilities, is so far beyond what the ordinary schmuck who calls herself a submissive can do, that such ability deserves my highest admiration and acknolwedgement. I had been lax in doing so in this thread, so I thank you for reminding me of my manners, Sunfox.

Excellent post TaintedB. For those of us who do commit to the no limits relationship, it is not about submitting when it gives us a thrill or because we love to hate to do it, or because it is okay with us personally, but because we accepted to make that choice. Some are asked to submit to no limits, others like myself offered it even after being cautioned by the one to whom it was offered as to what it really means....and it is not something I think most would do for someone they did not hold devotion for. The concept you are willing to place your life in that person's hands and full control is a symbol of your devotion and trust.

It seems a lot of the misunderstanding that arises from this is that we who do it find it easy. Some may, but I for one do not and often find there is something I cannot just jump and do when told it is desired, nor once done necessarily find it easier the next time or any more acceptable to my tastes. Some of those things are works in progress and have been months in the process of wearing down the inbuilt resistance (mostly psychological) to the desired act. Like TaintedB pointed out so well, there are some things which I would accept he wanted but on knowing I just could not do them solo would ask him to find some way of forcing me so I can achieve what he wishes...and I have asked for that assistance from him.

It is a choice....when you committed to that type relationship, not countless times along the road when the going gets tough and things are asked of you which you do not think are appropriate or tasteful. Many people say they are into no limits, but then make distinctions of what they won't do.....that is IMHO having limits. It is not a contest of who is better or worse but it is necessary for those who might think of offering it to someone that they do understand beforehand exactly what it means then and in the future. As much as you might trust your partner and think you know what they will and will not ask of you, once you accept this they are free to step outside your expected set of limits and ask the unexpected. LOL, in fact, for some it is too tempting to not take a little advantage of this new level of power and control and test it out, just to see if you are for real or playing. As I think i recall osg saying, she often wonders if her Master really thought she would do as he ordered when he gave her this task for the first time...I commend her ability to do it there and then.

Catalina

 

[sunfox]

I'm with Sunfox here. I see nothing whatsoever to applaud in totally mindless obedience. To me it doesn't mean love or devotion or in fact anything other than not having either the brains or the motivation to think for yourself. I don't even see a power exchange in these extreme situations. So you put a gun to your head & blow your brains out on command, do you think that you'll be around after to congratulate yourself on your supreme obedience?

I'm just one of the ordinary schmucks who calls herself a submissive. Fortunately my Master does not require me to eat poop or shoot myself to prove anything to him.

I'm afraid I'm with you.

We're apparently not as perfect as the slaves, and therefore, our opinions don't matter.

I can live with that.


TB.. I got about halfway through that, and then remembered that I hadn't addressed that question to you, so I just let it all scroll by. Nothing personal, but I'd rather hear from the one I addressed it to.. that, and it's nearly three in the morning and I'm too tired to give it another go.

Edited to add:

I stick by my contention that.. regardless of if you choose to give up the right to refuse or don't... having no option but to do what you've been told does not make it devotion. It makes it obedience. Like it, don't like it; agree, don't agree.. I don't really give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut. It's my opinion, and you'll just have to live with that.

 

[catalina_francisco]

We're apparently not as perfect as the slaves, and therefore, our opinions don't matter.

I can live with that.

Why do you feel you need to make this into a contest? Tainted B hasn't, bridgeburner hasn't, I explicitely said it was not a contest, and I have not seen osg infer in this thread she is better because she is a slave either. It is a matter of choice....just as you are happy with the terms of your submission because they suit you, so am I with mine because for me it is the only way it works and keeps me interested. Doesn't mean I feel a need to qualify those terms and give them a perfection rating though, especially as I don't believe in perfection.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Let me start by saying that I respect osg for her convictions and I respect her beliefs. I also do not think she is a mindless robot and obeys without feelings or thoughts. I do however have my concerns about her Dominant.

Pure limitlessness does not exist there are always limits to things which humans simply can or cannot do. However, that is all a side note and not really important, what this thread is about is scat and the combination with submission and BDSM.

Degradation and humiliation are strong emotions which are liked by many in the lifestyle. Many see scat as the ultimate degradation humanly possible and acceptable. I am not in particular surprised or shocked by osg's tale. It is something which I have often encountered in D/s relationships.

We dominants have this urge to see how far we are capable of pushing our property. When we have taken one hurdle, we start looking for another to take. In long term 24/7 relationships this translates to push boundaries to the extreme, often making the submissive do things not because Dominants necessarily enjoy the activity but because we can and want to see how far we can push our slaves/subs.

I take health concerns very serious but most take health risks in BDSM on a very regular basis. Caning or whipping someone can lead to serious harm and the same can be said about scat... most will have no problems with caning their partner, so to me the whole health risk argument simply does not hold true as long as you are aware of the risk you are taking.

Scat is pretty out there but it is a lot more common than most seem to realise.

Francisco.

 

[Marquis]

So you are cool with her harming herself. But what if she is told to bake her baby in the microwave? Or drive her car into a crowded school crossing? Would you coo and admire that also?

No, because I believe your right to throw your fist ends where my nose begins.

But until you hit my nose, whatever floats your boat man.

 

[Marquis]

Why do you feel you need to make this into a contest? Tainted B hasn't, bridgeburner hasn't, I explicitely said it was not a contest, and I have not seen osg infer in this thread she is better because she is a slave either. It is a matter of choice....just as you are happy with the terms of your submission because they suit you, so am I with mine because for me it is the only way it works and keeps me interested. Doesn't mean I feel a need to qualify those terms and give them a perfection rating though, especially as I don't believe in perfection.

Catalina

It better not be a contest, I am very competitive.

Y'all will have me killing subs trying to be the most hardcore sadist.

 

[catalina_francisco]

It better not be a contest, I am very competitive.

Y'all will have me killing subs trying to be the most hardcore sadist.

LOL, and then where would you be without any subs left?!!

Catalina

 

[Quint]

I know the topic is scat and I'm sorry for perpetuating the off-topic, but I just had one thing to say about slavery.

I really draw a strong analogy to religion. You are essentially choosing to obey your master as God. Yeah, you might fear that he's a vengeful God that would wish you to sacrifice your own son, even as proof of your faith in him, but you are guided by the comfort in your belief that yours is a benevolent master who wishes the best for you and knows what is best for you. This is what guides faith. And I know that may not be the best argument to draw on a board dominated by self-proclaimed non-Christians, but it's what I see. Have fun.

 

[princess4u]

I've been a mom for almost 11 years now. And have had at least once child in diapers for that entire time... in discussions regarding scat my universal opinion on it is- after being in charge of tens of thousands of diapers changes, it would take a very very very special man to convince me there is anything erotic or otherwise sexy about poop.

....well said

 

[catalina_francisco]

I know the topic is scat and I'm sorry for perpetuating the off-topic, but I just had one thing to say about slavery.

I really draw a strong analogy to religion. You are essentially choosing to obey your master as God. Yeah, you might fear that he's a vengeful God that would wish you to sacrifice your own son, even as proof of your faith in him, but you are guided by the comfort in your belief that yours is a benevolent master who wishes the best for you and knows what is best for you. This is what guides faith. And I know that may not be the best argument to draw on a board dominated by self-proclaimed non-Christians, but it's what I see. Have fun.

LOL, is similar to something I was going to say, especially in terms of devotion and obeying beyond what might seem to have a positive or affirming purpose at the precise moment in time. Sometimes you have to remember why you have chosen that path to be able to accept where it might lead.

Catalina

 

[Kajira Callista]

Too many times i see slaves romanticize the control their Master has over them. I see typed over and over that they would put a gun in their own mouths and pull the trigger or slit their wrists or do things that would result in ....well.... death.
What they are refusing to realize is that it is not Master who controls what you do it is you who controls it to please him/her.
I have been used as human toilet paper and been shat upon in my lifetime...was it fun...nope it was fuckin' gross. Did i have a choice? At the time i didn't think that way, i just obeyed, without question. It was not a threat to my life or something that would damage me forever so i did it without a second thought.

Here is what pisses me off. When a slave says they would die for their Master or if they were told to kill themselves they would do it. If you would do that, then i see that as obsessed with, not devoted to serving Master. How the hell can you serve your Master if you are dead? And im betting that most dominants really wouldnt be interested in someone with such little regard for their own life.

One more thing...any sub/slave/whatever who sees a Master as anything more then a human being has issues that they need to resolve, and any Master who would allow their pyl to believe that Master was more then human is not a Master IMHO.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Here is what pisses me off. When a slave says they would die for their Master or if they were told to kill themselves they would do it. If you would do that, then i see that as obsessed with, not devoted to serving Master. How the hell can you serve your Master if you are dead? And im betting that most dominants really wouldnt be interested in someone with such little regard for their own life.

I don't see it as being obsessed anymore than doing the things you said you did for your Master. It comes down to how far you can be pushed and how your mind is wired. For many, and we fall into this realm, as Master he owns me so my life is not my own, it is his. As such in my eyes and heart he does have the right to decide what to do with it, though that does not mean it is always acceptable or easy for me. As I know he values having me here in person I don't expect he will be ordering me to kill myself anytime soon, but if he did and I obeyed, I would obviously be serving him by fulfilling to his command. As to dying for your Master, it is no different to a vanilla person putting themselves in the path of a bullet (or other harmful incident) to save their partner, child, parent IMHO. After all, if you didn't and they were the one to die, would it be any easier than them surviving and your not being here? I tend to think selfishly I would prefer to not be the one left behind with the pain.

Similarly he has recently expressed he expects me to remain his property even if he dies....that means if he dies he can accept I might have sex with others, I may possibly have relationships, but I will never again submit to or be another's property. It is fairly heavy and certainly not for everyone, but it is as he expects and commands. Many women (and men) outside BDSM have similarly remained spiritually and emotionally connected to their deceased partner to the exclusion of all others for the remainder of their life and not been seen as obsessed for doing so. It is a matter of preference...I personally cannot imagine ever being this way with another, so as shocking as it might have initially seemed when he said it, it really isn't a huge stretch of my imagination to believe it would be so.

Catalina

 

[arctic-stranger]

I don't see it as being obsessed anymore than doing the things you said you did for your Master. It comes down to how far you can be pushed and how your mind is wired. For many, and we fall into this realm, as Master he owns me so my life is not my own, it is his. As such in my eyes and heart he does have the right to decide what to do with it, though that does not mean it is always acceptable or easy for me. As I know he values having me here in person I don't expect he will be ordering me to kill myself anytime soon, but if he did and I obeyed, I would obviously be serving him by fulfilling to his command. As to dying for your Master, it is no different to a vanilla person putting themselves in the path of a bullet (or other harmful incident) to save their partner, child, parent IMHO. After all, if you didn't and they were the one to die, would it be any easier than them surviving and your not being here? I tend to think selfishly I would prefer to not be the one left behind with the pain.

Similarly he has recently expressed he expects me to remain his property even if he dies....that means if he dies he can accept I might have sex with others, I may possibly have relationships, but I will never again submit to or be another's property. It is fairly heavy and certainly not for everyone, but it is as he expects and commands. Many women (and men) outside BDSM have similarly remained spiritually and emotionally connected to their deceased partner to the exclusion of all others for the remainder of their life and not been seen as obsessed for doing so. It is a matter of preference...I personally cannot imagine ever being this way with another, so as shocking as it might have initially seemed when he said it, it really isn't a huge stretch of my imagination to believe it would be so.

Catalina

This explains why you said some of those things about me in the other thread....the one about my new relationship....i respect your beliefs on that, but i dont share them.