Scat (no, i'm not talking about jazz)

[WriterDom]

This is like a bad dream gotten worse...it won't go away...

Yes, and now they are dragging Da Vinci into the shit.

 

[Miss Diva]

Yes, and now they are dragging Da Vinci into the shit.

First Italian dishes, now Italians painters, can we pick on another nationalilty while discussing this...

Ok so I am an Italian Canadian...

 

[schmerzgarten]

Simply another vehicle to elicit the desired response, for those so disposed....

Eating it would bother me quite a lot, I think. It's the superficial stuff that I don't mind so much.

Forcing control over bodily functions can be quite arousing, whether via caths, enemas, rubber diapers, etc. Let's face it, even if only doing anal play, at some level you are doing scat play. Continuing, I remember being tied and masked in bath tube when a certain woman let loose with a poop inspirational of I-HOP. Was a sickened, no. Did I feel the intended humiliation, most definitely. Would I ever eat poop, lord no, I've accumulated way to much debt for sake of studying biology in college. Regardless of the proclivity, those who enjoy BDSM find a headfuck in all of it, IMHO, thus for some scat, at whatever level, is but another means to provoke the desired response. *looks around for that big butt plug and the vacuum*

 

[catalina_francisco]

First Italian dishes, now Italians painters, can we pick on another nationalilty while discussing this...

Ok so I am an Italian Canadian...

Then perhaps you had better thank those who sought to make this racial and bring things Italian into the discussion in a maner which suggested shame....from memory I believe they were WD, and ADR (who thoughtfully made it also European as a whole)...and yourself of course. And yes, before it is pointed out Da Vinci was Italian, I am well aware of that fact but unlike others who have thought to insinuate the discussion was a negative on Italy and things Italian, I used him as an example of intelligence and unlimited desire to explore many areas others thought unnecessary and/or unsavoury. No doubt if he were with us today and on this board, he would be more than happy to discuss the topic with an open and interested frame of thought and motive.

If people choose to see the remote mention of anyone or anything in a discussion as picking on that said racial group the person or thing mentioned came from, perhaps the problem is not with those who did not mention that nationality in a derogatory way, but more so those who chose to concentrate on the racial factor and not the point of the observation and/or topic.

Catalina

 

[Exciteher]

LOL, going on the threads and discussions we have had on this board about enemas and those who have experienced (or hoped to), and the ass to mouth thing, I am surprised some have taken issue with this thread and the whole idea of what osg wanted to discuss. It seems these things you have described here Etoile are all things which many of us do (and many vanilla's have also done.............
............ any form of anal play at some time is going to bring one into contact with what is produced through that orifice at the very least...... pretending one does not have such things to deal with makes me wonder what their secret is, or if they actually have had any anal experience..................

Catalina

No shit! (sorry..could not help myself!)

No matter how well one does the scrubby, scrubby, if one engages in things like: anal play, rimming, or cock sucking after anal sex, etc., and unless one is using dams, condoms, gloves, and all barrier related precaution...

..the likelyhood of ingesting micro-poo and micro-turds is certain! And said micro-shit can contain ALL the nasty bugs and microbes, by the millions, people have mentioned.

Yeah, I can understandable that most will not want to make a feast of poo, it's not my thing either. But if you think about it, the "How could you?..Oh no, not me!" reaction lot of people have toward people that are into this sort of activity or want to discuss it kinda flies in the face of reality...

catalina_francisco, your acceptance and sense of perspective is not only a sign of great strength.. it is appreciated!

 

[WriterDom]

Then perhaps you had better thank those who sought to make this racial and bring things Italian into the discussion in a maner which suggested shame....from memory I believe they were WD, and ADR
Catalina

Poop Parmesan is an Italian racial remark? That's a pretty big leap, even for you, cat.

 

[Miss Diva]

Then perhaps you had better thank those who sought to make this racial and bring things Italian into the discussion in a maner which suggested shame....from memory I believe they were WD, and ADR (who thoughtfully made it also European as a whole)...and yourself of course. And yes, before it is pointed out Da Vinci was Italian, I am well aware of that fact but unlike others who have thought to insinuate the discussion was a negative on Italy and things Italian, I used him as an example of intelligence and unlimited desire to explore many areas others thought unnecessary and/or unsavoury. No doubt if he were with us today and on this board, he would be more than happy to discuss the topic with an open and interested frame of thought and motive.

If people choose to see the remote mention of anyone or anything in a discussion as picking on that said racial group the person or thing mentioned came from, perhaps the problem is not with those who did not mention that nationality in a derogatory way, but more so those who chose to concentrate on the racial factor and not the point of the observation and/or topic.

Catalina

Cat I guess the problem with chat rooms is the lack of body language. I was kidding. Trying to bring some lightness into this topic. That being said though, if someone whats to scat then scat away.

 

[Miss Diva]

Poop Parmesan is an Italian racial remark? That's a pretty big leap, even for you, cat.

I was just trying to see the humour in all this...

 

[serijules]

But if you think about it, the "How could you?..Oh no, not me!" reaction lot of people have toward people that are into this sort of activity or want to discuss it kinda flies in the face of reality...

There is a big difference between having your shit, and eating it too. Some are perfectly content with not needing to have, nor openly accept, both.

I like anal play, rimming, etc...but I have zero tolerance for scat play. In the things I mentioned, the intentions and reasons for liking/wanting that activety has zero to do with the scat itself, and everything to do with the pleasure of the act. I try hard to make sure me or my partner is as clean and safe as possible in those instances. In scat play, the *point* is often to be presented with and exposed to scat. That is where the line is for me. I don't find scat play to be safe by any means, and nothing anyone says nor any amount of prep is going to change that for me.

It's like driving a car. Every time you get in the car, you are at risk of getting in an accident. You can put your seatbelt on for protection, but otherwise the control really is out of your hands. Doesn't mean you should start driving like a fuckwad and go LOOKING for one. *shrugs*

I agree that the attitudes can be baffling if one is judging others, but I see no connection between doing mild anal-related things and having a negative attitude about actual scat-specific play.

 

[babiesmiles]

I was just trying to see the humour in all this...

I saw the humour !

 

[schmerzgarten]

Maybe I'm just being a grump, but...

There is a big difference between having your shit, and eating it too. Some are perfectly content with not needing to have, nor openly accept, both.

I like anal play, rimming, etc...but I have zero tolerance for scat play. In scat play, the *point* is often to be presented with and exposed to scat. That is where the line is for me. I don't find scat play to be safe by any means, and nothing anyone says nor any amount of prep is going to change that for me.

It's like driving a car. Every time you get in the car, you are at risk of getting in an accident. You can put your seatbelt on for protection, but otherwise the control really is out of your hands. Doesn't mean you should start driving like a fuckwad and go LOOKING for one. *shrugs*

I agree that the attitudes can be baffling if one is judging others, but I see no connection between doing mild anal-related things and having a negative attitude about actual scat-specific play.

I'm really not trying to provoke a flame war here and maybe I'm just grumpy, but if you are going to rim someone you are exposing yourself to all the biological risks as you would if you ate a turd out of said person. That is simply the way it is. Now, I personally would not wish to do so, and I likewise enjoy rimming a Domme, but I accept the risk is very similar, only the exact activity different. Indeed, having someone relieve herself on you is much safer than rimming.

 

[Etoile]

I'm really not trying to provoke a flame war here and maybe I'm just grumpy, but if you are going to rim someone you are exposing yourself to all the biological risks as you would if you ate a turd out of said person. That is simply the way it is. Now, I personally would not wish to do so, and I likewise enjoy rimming a Domme, but I accept the risk is very similar, only the exact activity different. Indeed, having someone relieve herself on you is much safer than rimming.

I think we all agree that the risk is the same for rimming and for eating. I don't think anybody is thinking rimming is any safer than any other scat-related activity. What serijules and I are referring to is the mental difference, not the technicality of biological similarity. Mentally, there is a big difference between rimming and scat play. Obviously they entail the same risks, but I do not put them in the same category of practices at all.

 

[serijules]

IMO, with rimming, it is entirely possible (and extremely easy) to protect yourself from said bacteria and whatnot by using barriers. I don't see how that is even remotely possible with any form of scat play that involves ingesting it. Thus why they are not, like Etoile said, even in the same category for me. Anything that involves a real risk of harm is simply not my kink....to me, scat play comes with that risk, whereas rimming and other activities can be practiced safely. And I do practice them safely.

Now mind you, I'm not saying anything against those that choose not to, the point is, it is a choice, and you weigh the risks and base a decision on the conclusion (or you should anyhow) just like any other fetish. Many find the risk too great or too much for them to accept mentally. I don't see how this "flies in the face of reality".

 

[Exciteher]

....... the point is, it is a choice, and you weigh the risks and base a decision on the conclusion (or you should anyhow) just like any other fetish. Many find the risk too great or too much for them to accept mentally. I don't see how this "flies in the face of reality".

Yes, I hear you, and I respect and accept yours and other peoples individual limits and choices!

To be perfectly clear: It seems to me that without precautions like barriers and with all other things being equal, "light anal play" and scat activities carry potentially identical health risks... and to think otherwise "flies in the face of reality". That "Many find the risk too great or too much for them to accept mentally..." is perfectly understandable..and does not "fly in the face of reality" of said risks.. as you suggest!

And I think we agree, be it something one is into or not, that mentally scat is "felt" as having certain risks... and is "Taboo"... ie the "that is so dirty factor..", the "Ick" factor...etc. Or call it the "beyond the pale factor." Whatever. Indeed, the Taboo is most likely born of the health risks.. and perhaps sensory related unpleasant perceptions??

Many people who are averse to anal play ascribe to anal play (and scat for that matter...they see little distinction) the same characteristics that those who are into anal play ascribe to scat. Irony? So there is more to this, and I am not so sure anal play and scat activities are as unrelated as one might think! Your mileage may vary.

To explore all this, let us for the sake of argument define two broad catagories.

For the first, lets make a catagory called "erotic". Or call it "sensual pleasure". Yes, the anus is an eroginious zone, and rimming and being rimmed can be entirely appreciated within this catagory... and the mental trajectory, regardless if barriers are used or not, is to push to the back of awareness any potential risk or harm of this activity and any taboo's to accentuate the pleasurable aspects of that act. But I can imagine that for some, shit eating or playing with shit can also induce some perverse pleasure? This is scat as a kink, fetish etc? And again, if purely sensual pleasure in the goal, the mental trajectory is to deny the risks and taboos? Or perhaps Taboo is also a pleasure here and it is retained?

For the second, lets make a catagory called "Domination and submission"...within this we would find service, degradition and humiliation..etc. Here it seems to me, the mental trajectory is quite the opposite that in the "erotic catagory". In BDSM scat would RELY on the RISKS (even if the risks are mitigated) AND THE TABOO aspects of scat!

For the Dom...would not the extra responsability involved due to the risks... and the joy he would get from his sub that they would trust him to service him this way and be his dirty slut to the utmost of their being...RELY on an appreciation..or awareness or a perception... of the risk and Ick the"Taboo dirtyness" of it all?

Also would not any sense of humiliation would RELY on an appreciation of the risk and Ick and the"Taboo dirtyness" of it all?

So with scat for the sub... their sense of their own intensity of service and submission would RELY on an appreciation of the risk and Ick and the"Taboo dirtyness" of it all? If this were not so, the submission would not be very remarkable would it?

Of course, the catagories I have setup are for the sake of discussion, in reality I suppose all of this is much less cut and dry and imagine the interactions of these factors are as varied as the people that are into scat play.

So, as a mental experimant or example...how might these catagories combine?

Take anal play, particularly when it comes to sucking (sucking and being sucked has undeniable pleasure aspects!) on something right after it has been in a bum, and no matter if that "something" had been kept sterile by whateven means or not... does not the main uniqueness of that act and a good part of the mental "payoff" also RELY on an appreciation of risk and the "Taboo dirtyness" of it all?

I am not trying to talk anyone out of their limits. I am not saying anyone should or should not get involved with scat or change their limit. Also, everyone has their own "compartments" into which this or that act fit...and I respect that also.

My outcome: I am curious...and trying to provide some vantage point or framework for myself from which at least some of the aspects scat play and those that are into this can be understood, and provide a launch point and ideas for further discussion. And perhaps, bearing in mind we all have our own limits, we can to explore this subject a bit more openly??... I see little value in making it harder to talk about this subject than it already is...

So...I am wondering.. for those that are into it.. and in addition to excellent points osg and others have made, what do others see as the uniquely mental aspects of scat play in BDSM?.. schmerzgarten talked about forced control of bodily functions and arousal... interesting!

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Excellent post Exciteher.

 

[redelicious]

Not that I've done it (because I haven't), but during an interesting conversation I learned that there are some people in the Lifestyle who use a microwave to heat things to a certian temperature to kill any potential nasties... and there is a limit to what one could "safely" ingest in a 24 hour period, but I can't remember the suggested amount.

*note* The following post is from James G5, who can't remember his password to signon for himself.

Maybe this should be posted to the BDSM kitchen thread?


Please send all comments and complaints here.

 

[schmerzgarten]

An example from a Pat Califia short story...

I remember once being given the task to simply read a Pat Califia short story for fifteen minutes a night, I believe the title was "The Calyx of Isis" from the book "Macho Sluts." As would have been predicted of me at the time, I either exceeded the 15 minute stipulation or found other means of distraction (Did I mention I can be a horrible submissive?). In any regard, having finally finished the story, I found myself so squicked by the brutality of the energy - or at least as I perceived it at the time, that I became a baby and tried to do the "I'm nilla" now thing. *L* However, to topic and telling in general, one of the scenes that befell the girl - lesbian erotica, was the following: She was affixed to a table, a bardex enema inserted, and given a rather mighty enema whilst also being whipped. During the course of this mistreatment, the Dominas uttered things to the effect of she was being cleaned out for "Daddy" so should be of better use in the coming ministrations and service. Now, many a month later after my flouncing off about those "evil women," I think deviations on that scene have become part of my regular repertoire of fantasies. Indeed, much of what happened in that story continues to "plague" my free moments. So, just as a point of example, are such scenes scat play, most certainly. Could the subsequent fisting she received be considered scat play, indeed. I just offer this up as an example of how "anal play" and "scat play" may become more terms of convenience rather than set scopes of what an activity may entail. And yes, I find the aforementioned sensations both humiliating and erotic, but much more for reason of the power-exchange and "headfuck" of it all than the absolute sensations - though I adore both sensations as well.

</ramble>

 

[Etoile]

Macho Sluts has some of my favorite porn anywhere.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Cat I guess the problem with chat rooms is the lack of body language. I was kidding. Trying to bring some lightness into this topic. That being said though, if someone whats to scat then scat away.

I apologise......as you say it is a common problem with this form of contact and I guess given the past receptiveness on this forum, or lack of to be more exact, of topics that fall outside the popular, safe, and regular, I was a bit quick to feel the conversation was again dropping into the same hole. The positive is this is the first time I can recall here that the conversation has survived relatively unscathed by most, so perhaps we are getting to a point where the more topical and taboo topics can be introduced for discussion.

Catalina

 

[sunfox]

I apologise......as you say it is a common problem with this form of contact and I guess given the past receptiveness on this forum, or lack of to be more exact, of topics that fall outside the popular, safe, and regular, I was a bit quick to feel the conversation was again dropping into the same hole. The positive is this is the first time I can recall here that the conversation has survived relatively unscathed by most, so perhaps we are getting to a point where the more topical and taboo topics can be introduced for discussion.

Catalina

I tend to think that a lot of the problem isn't the lack of receptiveness to the controversial topic itself, so much as the way that those who are pro-whatever get all bent out of shape if someone posts saying they're not into it for whatever reason. The instant 'well if you don't like it, you're not open minded' method of attacking that seems to start a lot of fights.

But maybe that's just me.

 

[Brinnie]

I think scat is sooooo 2002.

 

[WriterDom]

I tend to think that a lot of the problem isn't the lack of receptiveness to the controversial topic itself, so much as the way that those who are pro-whatever get all bent out of shape if someone posts saying they're not into it for whatever reason. The instant 'well if you don't like it, you're not open minded' method of attacking that seems to start a lot of fights.

But maybe that's just me.

There needs to be another side to this issue that puts forth the message that scat might not be a safe activity. That just because a pea shooter can put your eye out, it's ok to suck on the wrong end of a 38 special. And don't rag on bestiality. Another taboo. Perhaps because animals can't give consent that bestiality is no different than rape?

What's next? Because someone enjoys raping 10 year old boys we should be open minded about child abuse? Or the idiots that want to glorify pimping and nonconsent?

You can't stand on the soap box of free speech while calling those that dissent bitches and racists.

 

[sunfox]

There needs to be another side to this issue that puts forth the message that scat might not be a safe activity. That just because a pea shooter can put your eye out, it's ok to suck on the wrong end of a 38 special. And don't rag on bestiality. Another taboo. Perhaps because animals can't give consent that bestiality is no different than rape?

What's next? Because someone enjoys raping 10 year old boys we should be open minded about child abuse? Or the idiots that want to glorify pimping and nonconsent?

You can't stand on the soap box of free speech while calling those that dissent bitches and racists.

Yeah, what he said.

Okay, and I just wanted to drag this up to the top again to be obnoxious. I'm such a bitch.

 

[bridgeburner]

Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

There is a difference between honest dissent and an attempt to enhance one's position by smacking down on others. If you want to be a bad-ass you have to be able to take your licks when somebody points out that you're being an asshole. It's in the Bad-Ass Bylaws.

No one here has promoted eating shit. It's ridiculous to keep yapping about it. No one has suggested that ingesting any amount of shit is without risks. It has been suggested that most people don't know much about the actual risks as opposed to the commonly imagined risks.

The issue here isn't shit as a fetish, but service and devotion and how limits can be pushed and expanded to include even the ingestion of feces.


-B

 

[bridgeburner]

For the record, I'm anti-poop. I don't want to smell it or look at it or have it in my mouth. That being said, I find the idea that osg can overcome her personal revulsion because of the magnitude of her devotion quite interesting.

My s-i-l thinks poop is gross, too. Or at least she did before she had a baby. Now her entire world is about poop. Is the baby pooping? Has he pooped today? How soon will he poop? Oooh, look at that poop, isn't it too big? too soft? too dark? too cute!! Seriously, she called me over the other day when she was changing his diaper and said "Look! Isn't that a cute little poo?" I have seen my brother pluck a dingleberry from the bare bottom of his 4yo son without batting an eye. One's feelings about poop can obviously be influenced by one's relationship to the pooper.

I am resovled never to have children for this reason alone.


-B