Serious Discussion: The Mental Health of Dominants

[neci]

Huh. Maybe I just live in a different part of the world. Where I am, I see a lot of support, both organized and not, for folks who aren't "normal" or "perfect", for those who don't fit inside the neat boxes of expectation.

the US is notorious for a lack of mental health support. i think they teach mental health in cursive these days.

You're not American. If you're not rich and shiny it's because you are defective and undeserving, don't you know that? Now if we all think positive, everything will be magically fine.

is it okay if i think negative and act positive? i'm working on the whole thinking positively, but sometimes i'm just good for the action.

Moved because i took it as a fun thread rather then a serious. misunderstood what i was reading i suppose, so no, not bs just a mistake.

i take my fun very seriously.
it's all good. i'm sorry about the cuss words.

People close to me tell me I am discounting the good I have done, but, within this process of self examination, I ask myself questions such as, what right do I have to interfere into the dynamics of others. i think has humans interacting with each other, we are bound to interfere on a daily basis. my question is what do you define as interfering? What makes me believe I know any better than they themselves do. you know your truth, they know theirs. are you able to tell when your truths are inferior to those of another?

Are those so called good results and good deeds actually led to an honestly good outcome, or was I, by helping someone with a problem really reinforcing their own inability to deal with it themselves? what's the wording of that phrase, you can either give a man a fish or teach him how to? something like that. in helping, are you replacing one dependency with another or are you teaching them how to live in a sustainable way? does your fish like air play? does your fish beg not to be unhooked? all very important questions to examine.Are indeed needs met here in a positive and empowering way, or are needs rationalized that hinder personal growth outside of some neurotic issue?my need to suck cock stems from several neurotic issues, but for the most part it tends to be quite positive and empowering. well, unless humiliation and degradation are the lesson of the day. then i'm just fucked. And I think it is important to examine oneself in such a critical way, especially when in a position of power. with great power comes great responsibility. when nation states begin doing this, maybe the rest of the world will follow suit. shit. look at that. it's trickle down mental health theory! i don't think it worked for economics. maybe we should start at the bottom and work our way up? ooooh! what if we meet in the middle? the middle is normally juicier.Constantly being aware of a dynamic as a function inside a relationship isn't enough. not enough?! what if i need a nap?! Motives and the motives of needs and desires are important too. i know my motives. what are yours? This person, my potential mentor, he is not aware that he his burning women on a fire to fuel his own destruction. i'm calling the fap squad on that one. And if anyone should be, it would be him. ahhhhh. poetic justice. He is likely not even aware of the rot under his narcissistic mask or how his growing hunger of his unstable condition drove him to create such an incredibly dark type of power exchange, and that it will not be enough. Nothing will ever be enough. The crash is inevitable. buckle your seat belt. stay clear of the road. give top priority to the most wounded.

Suicide cults started making sense. The power exchange that happens there, and the self destruction on both sides of this exchange that leads to despair on all ends in a perpetual motion machine driving on denial and fear, and finally annihilation. It only being the last part of a dynamic that has been in place from the very beginning. The period at the end of a sentence.

How does this translate to dominants in general, I have no idea. I am nowhere near in answering any of those questions. This is merely a snapshot of a process currently going on. So, no need to get defensive ... yet

okay. going to respond here. power exchange is not limited to BDSM. power exchange has been going on since the beginning of time. i think it can be very beneficial to a relationship, when powers are distributed based on ability and a desire to carry that power.

I don't think "health" is a fixed state. No matter what our underlying conditions are, we can make a series of healthy decisions, or adopt healthy behaviors, that make a significant difference in the state of lives, but that doesn't insure that we won't make an unhealthy choice on any given day or discover that behavioral patterns we thought were serving us well are actually the cause of our dis-ease.

i need to start stalking you more.

I think that BDSM is not a mental illness, mind you my expertise into psychology does not go any deeper than Psych 101 in first year. I do however think that dominance, pain, submission, and the desire to inflict all these things onto another human being is the sexual expression of fascism. There's something strange (to me) within many human beings that longs for a strong leader, or to be a strong leader. The desire to worship a hero, to put our collective hopes and dreams onto the seemingly strong shoulders of a champion. I know, you'll say it's done with love, and desire and with trust and I believe that all those things are present. However, that does not dismiss the fact that violence is being done to a person's body and psyche, however controlled it might be. It does not also dismiss the fact that said champion does not exist, that he is a mental construct of the frightened.
I am far from advocating the banning of these practices, I think sodomy laws are ridiculous. However, I am very comfortable with these practices being socially ostracized. These people should be placed into the fringes, because however consensual, sane and safe these practices might be the danger to go beyond said parameters is great. Simply put, I don't trust you people.

question for you here. i love violence being done to my body. i don't want a hero, i want a man. i carry my own weight and the weight of those around me on my shoulders. when violence is done to my body, healing happens in my psyche. i am calmer and more at peace. do you believe that BDSM is a "gateway drug" into nonconsenual acts of violence? do you relate BDSM to drugs like alcohol and marijuana or is BDSM more like LSD with the possibility of a really bad trip? what gives you the right to walk into someone's bedroom and dictate what they have to do in order to live "within" your society? if you are worried about violence and domestic abuse, shouldn't you be putting effort into fixing that part of society rather than going on a back roads "hunt out the sexual freak" witch hunt? know what's kind of funny? i don't trust you either.

 

[neci]

Are you trying to sell me mutual funds? Living off the rest of you? Did you maybe consider that I'm not American? Forgive me, but I hesitate to take lessons about money from the place that's plunging the world into what's shaping up to be the next Great Depression.

if you close your eyes, maybe it will pass.

 

[Tilia_Fondi]

Hey maybe you're right, it could very well be that I'm just uptight. I know what you mean though, my friends talk about sex, too. Although I've yet to hear any persistent stories about dominance, etc.
Still, I find that desire to control and be controlled dangerous and suspicious, but not a mental illness.

You can't expect everyones relationships to fit into your idea of what is right, you are only one person and throughout the huge variety of cultures in the world there are so many different ideas about what type of relationship is 'right' and to argue that other views other than your own shouldn't be accepted in society is BIGOTED.

As I've said I'm sure there are some bdsm relationships where the control is dangerous and unhealthy but the same can be said for vanilla relationships. Also, within the broad term 'bdsm', relationships vary greatly. Personally I control most things within my household, finances etc and like my husband to take control in other ways.

 

[Felix_Jones]

the US is notorious for a lack of mental health support. i think they teach mental health in cursive these days.



is it okay if i think negative and act positive? i'm working on the whole thinking positively, but sometimes i'm just good for the action.



i take my fun very seriously.
it's all good. i'm sorry about the cuss words.



okay. going to respond here. power exchange is not limited to BDSM. power exchange has been going on since the beginning of time. i think it can be very beneficial to a relationship, when powers are distributed based on ability and a desire to carry that power.




i need to start stalking you more.



question for you here. i love violence being done to my body. i don't want a hero, i want a man. i carry my own weight and the weight of those around me on my shoulders. when violence is done to my body, healing happens in my psyche. i am calmer and more at peace. do you believe that BDSM is a "gateway drug" into nonconsenual acts of violence? do you relate BDSM to drugs like alcohol and marijuana or is BDSM more like LSD with the possibility of a really bad trip? what gives you the right to walk into someone's bedroom and dictate what they have to do in order to live "within" your society? if you are worried about violence and domestic abuse, shouldn't you be putting effort into fixing that part of society rather than going on a back roads "hunt out the sexual freak" witch hunt? know what's kind of funny? i don't trust you either.

I'm not dictating behaviour here, at least I don't think. I'm suggesting it's fascist. I'm not suggesting anything as a gateway to other things. I'm saying that fascist activities, meaning those that previous hard-line regimes have done to their citizens, give you lot a sexual thrill.

 

[Felix_Jones]

if you close your eyes, maybe it will pass.

Turtle and think happy thoughts, eh?

 

[Felix_Jones]

You can't expect everyones relationships to fit into your idea of what is right, you are only one person and throughout the huge variety of cultures in the world there are so many different ideas about what type of relationship is 'right' and to argue that other views other than your own shouldn't be accepted in society is BIGOTED.

As I've said I'm sure there are some bdsm relationships where the control is dangerous and unhealthy but the same can be said for vanilla relationships. Also, within the broad term 'bdsm', relationships vary greatly. Personally I control most things within my household, finances etc and like my husband to take control in other ways.

I don't know if you understand what bigotry means. There are LOADS of views that I, and large swaths of the population, don't accept in our society. I think it's called being discerning, having opinions, adhering to conventions. To call it bigotry seems so hyper-sensitive. I think that people who practice dominance and submission for sexual thrills have a fascism fetish. That's it. I'm not proposing shipping them off to camps, although I think they do that for themselves already.

 

[Tilia_Fondi]

I don't know if you understand what bigotry means. There are LOADS of views that I, and large swaths of the population, don't accept in our society. I think it's called being discerning, having opinions, adhering to conventions. To call it bigotry seems so hyper-sensitive. I think that people who practice dominance and submission for sexual thrills have a fascism fetish. That's it. I'm not proposing shipping them off to camps, although I think they do that for themselves already.

Saying that a sect of people should be on the fringes of society and that you don't trust them shows your intolerance and thus is bigotry. If you said similar of the gay and lesbian community it would be illegal ( I live in the UK ).

You contradict yourself by saying that the large swaths of the population dont accept views which are different to theirs because they have opinions yet they are adhering to convention, which is it? Do you hold your own views or are you just a product of society spat out of a machine like a coke can? Adhering to convention doesn't top the list of whats important in my life.

Also what makes you think that the opinions these 'large swaths of the population' are always correct? From where I'm sitting the world is pretty fucked up which kind of shows that most people get things pretty damn wrong most of the time.

 

[Felix_Jones]

Saying that a sect of people should be on the fringes of society and that you don't trust them shows your intolerance and thus is bigotry. If you said similar of the gay and lesbian community it would be illegal ( I live in the UK ).

You contradict yourself by saying that the large swaths of the population dont accept views which are different to theirs because they have opinions yet they are adhering to convention, which is it? Do you hold your own views or are you just a product of society spat out of a machine like a coke can? Adhering to convention doesn't top the list of whats important in my life.

Also what makes you think that the opinions these 'large swaths of the population' are always correct? From where I'm sitting the world is pretty fucked up which kind of shows that most people get things pretty damn wrong most of the time.

Yeah, but if that sect performs a ritualized, sexual versions of fascism for their kicks....then yeah, straight to the fringes with you.

You're saying people can't both have opinions, and adhere to social conventions which makes, in their minds, certain views or activities abhorrent? Of course they can.

And you 100% adhere to conventions every day of your life. I'm assuming you wake up at a certain time, you eat at a certain time, you drive on the correct side of the road, don't eat with your mouth open, don't fart at the dinner table, etc. Those are all social conventions, some are even so rigid that they've been made into laws.

Fucked up? Really? Compare now to most of even the 20th century and I'd say we're doing pretty well.

 

[Tilia_Fondi]

Yeah, but if that sect performs a ritualized, sexual versions of fascism for their kicks....then yeah, straight to the fringes with you.

You're saying people can't both have opinions, and adhere to social conventions which makes, in their minds, certain views or activities abhorrent? Of course they can.

And you 100% adhere to conventions every day of your life. I'm assuming you wake up at a certain time, you eat at a certain time, you drive on the correct side of the road, don't eat with your mouth open, don't fart at the dinner table, etc. Those are all social conventions, some are even so rigid that they've been made into laws.

Fucked up? Really? Compare now to most of even the 20th century and I'd say we're doing pretty well.

Of course people have opinions and adhere to society regarding differing things but we are only discussing one thing at the moment, not which side of the road we drive on or farting at the dinner table. I adhere to many things in society but if my personal opinion differs from that of society then I won't just agree with it because everyone else does.

For the record, my day to day life is very random, the way I like it, and I don't wake at a certain time or eat at a certain time. Not everyone lives a mundane 9-5 life you know.

I'm just saying you can't just agree with the rest of society on everything, there are many things that are accepted that i think are abhorrent that most other people would consider normal but i don't ostracise people for it.

And, yes, I do think the world is totally fucked up, this century as much as last. Mainly because people are so driven by money in this world, some are living in multi million pound houses, cruising about in multi million pound boats etc and others can't feed their kids, and you want assume that a society that accepts that, have opinions which are valid?? And not only does society accept that, they look up to and strive for the multi million pound fantasy lifestyle and not appreciate the things they DO have in life. So no, I wouldn't say we are doing pretty well at all, SOME people are doing well.

 

[ImOnIt]

Yeah, but if that sect performs a ritualized, sexual versions of fascism for their kicks....then yeah, straight to the fringes with you.

You're saying people can't both have opinions, and adhere to social conventions which makes, in their minds, certain views or activities abhorrent? Of course they can.

And you 100% adhere to conventions every day of your life. I'm assuming you wake up at a certain time, you eat at a certain time, you drive on the correct side of the road, don't eat with your mouth open, don't fart at the dinner table, etc. Those are all social conventions, some are even so rigid that they've been made into laws.

Fucked up? Really? Compare now to most of even the 20th century and I'd say we're doing pretty well.

Pray explain (in simple and literal terms) about ritual, sexual versions of fascism. Pay extra attention to the italicised bit, because i have nfi what you are trying to say there.

 

[Tilia_Fondi]

Pray explain (in simple and literal terms) about ritual, sexual versions of fascism. Pay extra attention to the italicised bit, because i have nfi what you are trying to say there.

Yes I would be quite interested to hear your explanation to why you think kinky sex is fascism also? I tend to associated fascists with right wing politics and you seem to have far more right wing views than myself (To Felix, not Iamonit )

 

[Felix_Jones]

Yes I would be quite interested to hear your explanation to why you think kinky sex is fascism also? I tend to associated fascists with right wing politics and you seem to have far more right wing views than myself (To Felix, not Iamonit )

Ugh, just read below. So then if I'm critical of some abhorrent sexual practices that makes me right-wing? Don't lump me in with your moron politicians just because I don't adhere to some liberal fantasy of everyone being beautiful and unique and everything we do is a-okay. I'm a union delegate, does that sound very right-wing to you?

I think it's seriously fucked in the head to want to dominate someone or want to be dominated, but I stopped short of calling it a mental illness.

 

[KoPilot]

I'm reminded of this old internet ad:

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/e/ed/Pornography_on_my_computer.jpg

"Well-adjusted kinksters? In my society?"

It's more likely than you think.

 

[ImOnIt]

Ugh, just read below. So then if I'm critical of some abhorrent sexual practices that makes me right-wing? Don't lump me in with your moron politicians just because I don't adhere to some liberal fantasy of everyone being beautiful and unique and everything we do is a-okay. I'm a union delegate, does that sound very right-wing to you?

I think it's seriously fucked in the head to want to dominate someone or want to be dominated, but I stopped short of calling it a mental illness.

Pray explain (in simple and literal terms) about ritual, sexual versions of fascism. Pay extra attention to the italicised bit, because i have nfi what you are trying to say there.

Bonus points, what the fuck are you doing on this forum?

 

[neci]

i'd blow fidel over stalin any day.

 

[neci]

Ugh, just read below. So then if I'm critical of some abhorrent sexual practices that makes me right-wing? Don't lump me in with your moron politicians just because I don't adhere to some liberal fantasy of everyone being beautiful and unique and everything we do is a-okay. I'm a union delegate, does that sound very right-wing to you?

I think it's seriously fucked in the head to want to dominate someone or want to be dominated, but I stopped short of calling it a mental illness.

i would rather be diagnosed with depression than fascism.

 

[Felix_Jones]

i'd blow fidel over stalin any day.

I should hope so, I imagine necrophilia is WAY worse than anything discussed here.

 

[neci]

I should hope so, I imagine necrophilia is WAY worse than anything discussed here.

i knew i should go in and edit.

are self flagellating monks fascists?

 

[ImOnIt]

So then if I'm critical of some abhorrent sexual practices

Oh you!

Don't lump me in with your moron politicians ... liberal fantasy....

Well now.

I think it's seriously fucked in the head to want to dominate someone or want to be dominated, but I stopped short of calling it a mental illness.

If you think that, what are you doing on the Bondage, Domination and Sado-Masochism Talk subforum of Literotica then?

 

[Felix_Jones]

i knew i should go in and edit.

are self flagellating monks fascists?

Possibly, victims and perpetrators all at once.

 

[neci]

okay. so i've been thinking about the mental health of dominant powers that be again. it's a dangerous place. here's the thing. i don't want to end up dead. i've gone places submissively, where i have lost all control, and while that is terrifyingly exciting, it's also dangerous. how do i know that a sadistic partner will be able to stop themselves, when i've experienced the inability to stop my masochistic myself?

 

[neci]

If you think that, what are you doing on the Bondage, Domination and Sado-Masochism Talk subforum of Literotica then?

he's either a masochist, or he's looking for a blowjob.

 

[neci]

Possibly, victims and perpetrators all at once.

do you believe in god?

 

[Tilia_Fondi]

he's either a masochist, or he's looking for a blowjob.

Yeah, we get our kicks out of certain things, he seems to get his out of trying to put down people if he doesn't agree with things they do. Well he aint pissing on my bonfire I'm away for some kinky action

 

[Felix_Jones]

do you believe in god?

No I don't. Like the man said, mysticism isn't deep, it's not even shallow.