Serious Discussion: The Mental Health of Dominants

[neci]

No I don't. Like the man said, mysticism isn't deep, it's not even shallow.

how do you feel about stigmatizing men who take it up the ass? should they be placed on the outskirts of society as well? pretty painful and kinky in my book.

 

[YourCaptor]

Serious discussion: the cardiac health of dominants

Does it matter?

On the topic of finding a mentally stable girlfriend. OMG why is that so hard!!!

The other day I had a conversation with the buddy. A bizarre sequence of coincidents has lead him to question the sanity of his girl. Basically our conversation went something like the following.

Me: would it make any difference?

Him: Is it too much too much to ask for a sane girlfriend?

Me: A lot of people have issues, odds don’t make it the default. If it was physical you’d take care of her.

Him: I don’t want to babysit someone all my life.

Me: I suppose we are a bit different in that respect.

And his case wasn’t even so bad. Nothing like the machiavellians I run across. WTF is it with chicks and mach favors anyway?

More on mental stability

Lately I’ve been working on a project with this older woman. Now don’t let older throw you off, she may be 20+ years older than me but she fits right in with the college girls, short, petite, sexy and cute. Unlike college girls she is married, has kids, and runs her own company. She’s also emotionally stable, and that makes her stand out like you wouldn’t believe. Working with her is like finally being able to breathe again. I thought girls were just nuts, but now I’m seeing maturity probably has the world to do with it. I’m gonna miss her. Back to dealing with children.

 

[Essene]

I have concluded from half-assedly reading these discussions that switches are quite possibly the most sane people ever.

They're balanced - the submissive side balanced with the dominant side is a metaphor for like fascism minus fascism equals utopia - or like capitalism minus fascism equals pi - or something.

Yeah.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm pie.

 

[DVS]

This is a double post. I usually don't have this problem, but Lit is SOOOOOOOOOOO SLOOOOOOOOW, these days.

 

[DVS]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm pie.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm...gum flavored pie.

Or should that be pie flavored gum? Now I'm confused. Thank God there's a smiley for it!

 

[Kojote]

Ugh, just read below. So then if I'm critical of some abhorrent sexual practices that makes me right-wing? Don't lump me in with your moron politicians just because I don't adhere to some liberal fantasy of everyone being beautiful and unique and everything we do is a-okay. I'm a union delegate, does that sound very right-wing to you?

I think it's seriously fucked in the head to want to dominate someone or want to be dominated, but I stopped short of calling it a mental illness.

I can’t help but want to ask you if you have any idea of the real meaning of the word fascism?
In my education it was (simplified) explained as institutionalizing the hate for a certain kind of people and planning (or actually turning) to get rid of them (in the worst case irrevocable).
How does that translate to domination and submission?
And why isn’t the ‘domination’ of children (colloquially called upbringing) or the 'submission' of kids to their teachers (colloquially called education) fascist then?

Being German I should know pretty well what fascism actually is. For my grandparents invented it. And my fellow citizens still live in fear of being accused to go on with it.
I totally can’t see your point here …

 

[Netzach]

I'm not saying what you should or should not do, far from it, it's not any of my business. It's just my opinion that wanting to be slapped and bossed around is half the equation of fascism. I guess I'm not making the same distinction as you between it happening in a sexual way behind closed doors and it happening at the hands of a violent regime.

So if you like to stick your dick in pussy for thrills, I have to worry about you sticking it in pudding, light sockets, and doorways for thrills as well, by this logic. There exists absolutely no line between private and public life, because people are just that thick and untrustworthy.

To me, heterosexuality in its accepted form is pretty much as fascist as it comes. Hitler may have sported the uniform, but the press junket was pretty Bavarian nuclear families with babies.

This BDSM is fascist meme is really actually pretty old and done, folks. If you're enough the Marxist, it's decadent and un-egalitarian and sex is for production of the state and it's actually very decadent to do sex with all these real problems in the world. If you're actually a fascist it's unacceptable and decadent and sex is for production of the state, and a return to racial/identity ideals through the ideal family. The argument is so left it shows up on the right.

Personally I think it's better for people to get their power hangups, which are part of being human, out of the way while fucking than voting.

 

[Essene]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm pie.

Mmmmmmmmmmmm...gum flavored pie.

Or should that be pie flavored gum? Now I'm confused. Thank God there's a smiley for it!

Definitely pie flavored gum.
Hey! I just remembered - I had key lime pie flavored gum the other day. Someone at work gave it to me. It was pretty good actually. -Though a bit disconcerting.

I can’t help but want to ask you if you have any idea of the real meaning of the word fascism?
In my education it was (simplified) explained as institutionalizing the hate for a certain kind of people and planning (or actually turning) to get rid of them (in the worst case irrevocable).
How does that translate to domination and submission?
And why isn’t the ‘domination’ of children (colloquially called upbringing) or the 'submission' of kids to their teachers (colloquially called education) fascist then?

Being German I should know pretty well what fascism actually is. For my grandparents invented it. And my fellow citizens still live in fear of being accused to go on with it.
I totally can’t see your point here …

Win.

"Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II, the term fascist has been used as a pejorative word,[66] often referring to widely varying movements across the political spectrum.[67] In political discourse, the term 'fascist' is commonly used to denote authoritarian tendencies, but is often used as a pejorative epithet by adherents to both left-wing and right-wing politics to denigrate those with opposing viewpoints. George Orwell wrote in 1944 that 'the word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless ... almost any English person would accept 'bully' as a synonym for 'Fascist'.[68] Richard Griffiths argued in 2005 that 'fascism' is the 'most misused, and over-used word, of our times'.[26]"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism)

Personally I think it's better for people to get their power hangups, which are part of being human, out of the way while fucking than voting.

Agreed. I mean, I agreed with all of what you said, but it was like a REALLY long quote.

 

[Tilia_Fondi]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm...gum flavored pie.

Or should that be pie flavored gum? Now I'm confused. Thank God there's a smiley for it!

hmmm what kind of pie?

 

[KoPilot]

So if you like to stick your dick in pussy for thrills, I have to worry about you sticking it in pudding, light sockets, and doorways for thrills as well, by this logic. There exists absolutely no line between private and public life, because people are just that thick and untrustworthy.

To me, heterosexuality in its accepted form is pretty much as fascist as it comes. Hitler may have sported the uniform, but the press junket was pretty Bavarian nuclear families with babies.

This BDSM is fascist meme is really actually pretty old and done, folks. If you're enough the Marxist, it's decadent and un-egalitarian and sex is for production of the state and it's actually very decadent to do sex with all these real problems in the world. If you're actually a fascist it's unacceptable and decadent and sex is for production of the state, and a return to racial/identity ideals through the ideal family. The argument is so left it shows up on the right.

Personally I think it's better for people to get their power hangups, which are part of being human, out of the way while fucking than voting.

-swoons-

 

[Kojote]

Win.

"Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II, the term fascist has been used as a pejorative word,[66] often referring to widely varying movements across the political spectrum.[67] In political discourse, the term 'fascist' is commonly used to denote authoritarian tendencies, but is often used as a pejorative epithet by adherents to both left-wing and right-wing politics to denigrate those with opposing viewpoints. George Orwell wrote in 1944 that 'the word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless ... almost any English person would accept 'bully' as a synonym for 'Fascist'.[68] Richard Griffiths argued in 2005 that 'fascism' is the 'most misused, and over-used word, of our times'.[26]"(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism)

Ahh ...
Well ... Now I can at least see the point.
It's some of those 'I don't like what you do and therefore you are a ... mmh ... dumbass ... no wait: a fascist!' thing, eh?

As I said: Probably no idea what he is talking about.
Misusing a word like lots of others doesn’t make it right.
And if he really meant something like ‘bully’ and simply wasn’t smart enough to chose the right word:
Since when is someone a bully who does the things in question on demand]/i]?

 

[Essene]

Ahh ...
Well ... Now I can at least see the point.
It's some of those 'I don't like what you do and therefore you are a ... mmh ... dumbass ... no wait: a fascist!' thing, eh?

As I said: Probably no idea what he is talking about.
Misusing a word like lots of others doesn’t make it right.
And if he really meant something like ‘bully’ and simply wasn’t smart enough to chose the right word:
Since when is someone a bully who does the things in question on demand]/i]?

Oh I'm not making excuses. I think whatshisface genuinely thinks that he's appropriately likening BDSM to fascism without having a real grasp as to what the term really means and implies.

I agree with you. (My little snippet was in support of your statement, not to juxtapose it or counter/argue, etc.)

Like Netzach said "power hang-ups" are "part of being human", and so unless this dude has a full grasp of psychology, economics, world history, philosophy etc, I'm not really going to give a rats ass if he disagrees with the lifestyle. I haven't heard any solid arguments against the lifestyle. My reluctance to get into discussions like this that I have to deal with people who are of the sort that make up excuses to discriminate against others. His argument is entirely based on pathos, while grasping at ethos, and REALLY reaching for logos.

 

[Felix_Jones]

So if you like to stick your dick in pussy for thrills, I have to worry about you sticking it in pudding, light sockets, and doorways for thrills as well, by this logic. There exists absolutely no line between private and public life, because people are just that thick and untrustworthy.

To me, heterosexuality in its accepted form is pretty much as fascist as it comes. Hitler may have sported the uniform, but the press junket was pretty Bavarian nuclear families with babies.

This BDSM is fascist meme is really actually pretty old and done, folks. If you're enough the Marxist, it's decadent and un-egalitarian and sex is for production of the state and it's actually very decadent to do sex with all these real problems in the world. If you're actually a fascist it's unacceptable and decadent and sex is for production of the state, and a return to racial/identity ideals through the ideal family. The argument is so left it shows up on the right.

Personally I think it's better for people to get their power hangups, which are part of being human, out of the way while fucking than voting.

Who said anything about decadence? I'm not saying it's indulgent, I'm saying that the desire to control someone, and the desire to be controlled (even if it's only for pretend) is fascist. You totally pulled that out of your ass, not once have I said anything about the bourgeoisie or whatever.

I lean towards Orwell's, perhaps more eloquent, definition of fascism. That at its root it is a desire for people to be controlled, to worship a strong hero. And for our Teutonic friend below I quote: "In this country if you ask the average thinking person to define Fascism, he usually answers by pointing to the German and Italian régimes. But this is very unsatisfactory, because even the major Fascist states differ from one another a good deal in structure and ideology."

He goes on: "Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come."

So then, the desire to be the bully, or to be bullied comes as close to a fascist definition as I can see. Netzah, I might want to stick my dick into a lot of pussy, that doesn't mean I want to exert some sort of mind-bending control. I don't need to push people around, even in a controlled, sanitized, consensual environment. And I'm not advocating for some sort of ban, it's just my opinion.

 

[Kojote]

Oh I'm not making excuses. I think whatshisface genuinely thinks that he's appropriately likening BDSM to fascism without having a real grasp as to what the term really means and implies.

I agree with you. (My little snippet was in support of your statement, not to juxtapose it or counter/argue, etc.)

I understood it. Should have pointed that out.
My post was aimed at the dude.

Like Netzach said "power hang-ups" are "part of being human", and so unless this dude has a full grasp of psychology, economics, world history, philosophy etc, I'm not really going to give a rats ass if he disagrees with the lifestyle. I haven't heard any solid arguments against the lifestyle. My reluctance to get into discussions like this that I have to deal with people who are of the sort that make up excuses to discriminate against others. His argument is entirely based on pathos, while grasping at ethos, and REALLY reaching for logos.

I'm with you in this.
Actually I should have learned my lesson about this kind of discussion at the german part of the board, but the comparison of D/s and fascism caught me by surprise.
I'm so tired of being accused to be a fascist (for my place of birth) and now I am a fascist because of my lifestyle, too?
Sometimes I'd love do explain some things about tolerance, privacy, logic and 'not sticking ones nose into things one already disdains' to people like this personally. Face to face. In an anechoic basement ...
*grmbl*

(Okay, okay. Gonna relax and cool down right now ... )

 

[ImOnIt]

So then, the desire to be the bully, or to be bullied comes as close to a fascist definition as I can see. Netzah, I might want to stick my dick into a lot of pussy, that doesn't mean I want to exert some sort of mind-bending control. I don't need to push people around, even in a controlled, sanitized, consensual environment. And I'm not advocating for some sort of ban, it's just my opinion.

My face when you take a word and make it mean what you want

Fascism at the PERSONAL level is being a dickbag, the same way that democracy at the PERSONAL level is making group decisions. It's like referring to me visiting Spain as a mass migration and that makes no sense.

Mind bending control? 'Have dinner ready when I get home.' 'No, YOU move.' 'Drop this at the post office today.' What is implicit, but not stated is the 'please' in each of these statements. I largely please and thank you in private conversation - but the gratitude/appreciation still exists. I believe this is common to relationships - maybe in a given relationship the appreciation is growled and not apparently appreciative.

Netzach said 'If you're enough the Marxist, then...'

I don't need to push people around, even in a controlled, sanitized, consensual environment. And I'm not advocating for some sort of ban, it's just my opinion.

What about where both parties want to structure aspects of their relationship or interaction in that way? Your judgement (not opinion) involves me being a bully. Maybe I or someone else can answer any questions you have with a view to increase mutual understanding. I would prefer that you replace the word fascist with bully/control freak/whatever.

 

[rosco rathbone]

they are sick, i tell you. very sick.

does anyone know of a cure?

oral.

 

[KoPilot]

And I'm not advocating for some sort of ban, it's just my opinion.

Well, so long as you recognize that this is only your opinion, and that this opinion doesn't prevent you from treating us like any other human being, then whatever. I catch flak for doing other things that people would believe is "fucked up" as well: like spending as much time as I do drawing stupid comic books, being 22 and not having a driver's license, having a soft spot for black lipstick, and wanting to run off to live in another country with a guy I've only met 5 times. And my Transformers collection? Let's not get you started.

 

[Tilia_Fondi]

I just can't see why this guy thinks its only couples involved in bdsm that exert control over each other. In many vanilla relationships I know, most problems and arguments stem from both parties fighting for control and making decisions, at least in bdsm relationships this is less of a problem.

x

 

[CutieMouse]

oral.

Mmmm... oral.

 

[Tilia_Fondi]

Who said anything about decadence? I'm not saying it's indulgent, I'm saying that the desire to control someone, and the desire to be controlled (even if it's only for pretend) is fascist. You totally pulled that out of your ass, not once have I said anything about the bourgeoisie or whatever.

I lean towards Orwell's, perhaps more eloquent, definition of fascism. That at its root it is a desire for people to be controlled, to worship a strong hero. And for our Teutonic friend below I quote: "In this country if you ask the average thinking person to define Fascism, he usually answers by pointing to the German and Italian régimes. But this is very unsatisfactory, because even the major Fascist states differ from one another a good deal in structure and ideology."

He goes on: "Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come."

So then, the desire to be the bully, or to be bullied comes as close to a fascist definition as I can see. Netzah, I might want to stick my dick into a lot of pussy, that doesn't mean I want to exert some sort of mind-bending control. I don't need to push people around, even in a controlled, sanitized, consensual environment. And I'm not advocating for some sort of ban, it's just my opinion.

It seems everyone has differing definitions of fascism so therefore I tend to agree with the person who said its an outdated term with no real meaning. And for your reference I'm not English so don't accept that 'bully' is a synonym for 'fascist' and since the term was originally derived relating to German and Italian regimes I don't think you can argue that the English have the correct definition for it as the English definition appears to have changed over time.

 

[CutieMouse]

I'm still having a hard time figuring out how being fucked/fisted/toyed with until I'm a happy quivering little puddle of goo, or making note of a lover's interests/favorite foods/hobbies and surprising him with little tokens or keeping his favorite coffee/tea in the house = bullying.

 

[ImOnIt]

It seems everyone has differing definitions of fascism so therefore I tend to agree with the person who said its an outdated term with no real meaning. And for your reference I'm not English so don't accept that 'bully' is a synonym for 'fascist' and since the term was originally derived relating to German and Italian regimes I don't think you can argue that the English have the correct definition for it as the English definition appears to have changed over time.

You're totally right. Lets not even use the word fascist. That way, we'll know what the fuck we're talking about.

 

[Kojote]

I'm still having a hard time figuring out how being fucked/fisted/toyed with until I'm a happy quivering little puddle of goo, or making note of a lover's interests/favorite foods/hobbies and surprising him with little tokens or keeping his favorite coffee/tea in the house = bullying.

Welcome to the club ...

 

[Felix_Jones]

I understood it. Should have pointed that out.
My post was aimed at the dude.



I'm with you in this.
Actually I should have learned my lesson about this kind of discussion at the german part of the board, but the comparison of D/s and fascism caught me by surprise.
I'm so tired of being accused to be a fascist (for my place of birth) and now I am a fascist because of my lifestyle, too?
Sometimes I'd love do explain some things about tolerance, privacy, logic and 'not sticking ones nose into things one already disdains' to people like this personally. Face to face. In an anechoic basement ...
*grmbl*

(Okay, okay. Gonna relax and cool down right now ... )

A self-pitying German? Are you fucking kidding me? Then followed by a not so veiled threat. Stereotypes are a real time saver.