Sex and Drugs In Stories

[dr_mabeuse]

I never said hypocracy. I said distinction of definition. There really was no intent or implication inherent. It was an observation on hair splitting.

Gauche

Well, I think your argument is totally without merit. Just because I like to wear women's clothes and date sheep--I mean, not that I do, but if I did--it doesn't at all follow that I think everyone should wear women's clothes and date sheep. They should, of course, but it doesn't necessarily follow.

No, really. I happen to like most drugs. I enjoy getting high. That doesn't at all mean that I think everyone should or even would like drugs. I don't much care if they do or not. There is a world of difference between stating a personal preference and advocating that everyone do as you do.

---dr.M.

 

[MathGirl]

I like to wear women's clothes and date sheep

Dear Dr M,
You date sheep? You like ... have to take them to dinner and a movie before they'll come across? Maybe you should get some ovine husbandry tips from an Australian.
MG

 

[Guest]

... I just have to say though, if it's your practice to boycott the works or opinions of anyone who advocates drug use, then I'd hate to see your music collection...
---dr. M (for "Moron") M.

Oh, and P.S. I don't advocate drug use (although Svenska makes me want to) anymore than I advocate abstinance. I happen to like them. That's all.

Sorry, Mabeuse. Gauche is right, you're wrong; full stop. There's no arguement if you simply use a dictionary, or use a different word and revise your sentence(s); you did use the word "advocate" three times and conradictorily among them. (Maths obviously missed the point too in her response to Gauche).

Just to clarify: without regard to the subject of drugs, Gauche caught you out on a simple point of language, something he commands well.

Perdita

edited to include original post from Mab.

 

[Vincent E]

Re: Re: Sex and Drugs In Stories

There are no rules against drug use in stories; In fact it's a fairly common plot element.

However, like including anything other than missionary sex with the lights out in your stories, you're going to offend some people. I wouldn't worry about offending people unless your only measure of your story's worth is the voting score, in which case, you should never offend anyone for any reason and only write about missionary sex in the dark between husband and wife.

In which case you will offend the fetish community who will then bombard you with a plague of 1s.

On a more serious note, especially since I've now read past the first three posts after posting the line above, wasn't the original question whether it was acceptable to include drug use in a story here at Lit? If a writer is creating a scene in which drugs are being used, it is just part of the atmosphere of the story and not necessarily a glamorization of drug use. Isn't it?

Someone could write a story with drug use in it and make drugs seem as unappealing as possible. I can't see how incorporating drug use into a story makes it more erotic, but I can see how incorporating drug use sets the atmosphere of the scene, especially if you are writing something dark and depressing.


Remember when there was a lot of love in the Hangout?

 

[MathGirl]

MG missing the point

In which case you will offend the fetish community who will then bombard you with a plague of 1s.

Remember when there was a lot of love in the Hangout?

Dear VE,
There still is, dear. It's often carefully disguised, though. Of course I may have missed the point.
mG
Ps. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but 1s just thoroughly piss me off.

 

[LustiRusti]

I just have to say though, if it's your practice to boycott the works or opinions of anyone who advocates drug use, then I'd hate to see your music collection. The Mormon Tabernacle Choir and Up With People get old awfully fast.

LOL

 

[TheEarl]

SF: Just out of curiosity, do you include alcohol as a drug?

I've never used any drugs beyond alcohol and kava (National drink of Vanuatu before anyone asks) on the basis that the world is a weird enough place to be in at the best of times. Plus, I like my head. I like spending time inside it. But that's a matter of personal preference.

The Earl

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Depending on its use, Earl, yes and no. I have no objection when someone has a light beer or a glass of red wine with his dinner. I don't drink anything stronger than light cider (2,25%) myself, because I don't like the taste of alcohol.
When used correctly, alcohol is a drink, not a drug.

BUT, when people can't even imagine spending an entire weekend without drinking anything alcoholic, or when college students can't imagine going out on one lousy Friday night without drinking, or when someone has to drink in order to feel brave - then I call alcohol a drug.

People who bellow out drinking songs without hitting even one tone correctly, because they're so freakin' drunk, are not drinking because they enjoy the way it tastes together with their steak, but because they want to get drunk enough to find farting contests funny.

Drug liberalism and drug romanticism is dangerous. Not only do they destroy the people using drugs, but they also put other people at risk, when the use turns into addiction, and the people in question move up to heavier drugs, and end up stealing to finance their addiction. And as if thieves weren't dangerous enough, the alcohol/narcotics can also make the user mentally instable up to the point where he will flip out and attack whomever or whatever comes in his way.

There's nothing romantic about a junkie who comes at you with a knife, thinking that you're going to kill him unless he kills you first.
Paranoia is very common among drug users.

 

[TheEarl]

SF: What would you call my alcohol use - recreational or drug-based? I don't drink often, but I do occasionally drink heavily, especially if I'm going out with my friends. When I say heavily, I regard that as drunk enough to dance and to get that strange there/not there feeling. It's rarely to nausea and never to passing out. I'm not a gary-boy, but I do enjoy the feeling of being drunk with a group of mates occasionally.

Please understand that I'm not picking at you, I'm just curious.

The Earl

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I'd say that every now and then, you use drugs. If it's not too often, you might turn out OK, but if you do this every weekend, you're at the risk of becoming an alcoholic.

To quote my old principal at Folk University: "If you can't imagine spending ONE weekend without drinking any kind of alcohol, you really ought to stop and consider your drinking habits."

 

[glspade]

about Mary

It surprised me how many different points of view got leeched out of the woodwork by this simple question.

That said, write your story the way it feels good to you. Write what you know. After that, listen to the feedback. Of course, the Nazis will be barking at your gate, but there should be some good information and comment coming your way (such as dr_m's). Then, you can make a decision for the future as to whether or not you want to add such things to your writing.

Good luck.

g.

 

[TheEarl]

My policy is a) I never drink before 1.00pm.
b)I don't drink alone. If I'm alone then it's no fun and if there's no fun, then what's the point?

Do you disapprove of people getting drunk then? What is your opinion of kava (the only other drug that I've tried)? It's a traditional drink in a small archipelago of Pacific Islands called Vanuatu, which is ground from a tree root. It is a mixture of anaesthetics and analgesics and basically makes you very relaxed, very sleepy and very lethargic. Is it any chemical that messes with your mind?

Me I'm strange, I don't like sleeping pills. I'm an insomniac, but I'd rather not sleep than take a pill. It fucks over your biorhythms and prevents you from getting to sleep naturally. The way I see it, if I was meant to get to sleep, then I'd go to sleep naturally (This includes the 'herbal' sleeping pills, which are exactly the same principle, just using naturally occurring chemicals).

Normality is relative.

The Earl

 

[glspade]

Consider Edgar Allen Poe. Drug addicted for most of his life, really didn't discuss drugs too much.

William S. Burroughs. Drugs were a vehicle for adventure, included in most of his writings.

Charles Bukowski. Alcohol was a place to hide and bring curtains up, shielding his eyes from the grotesqueries of society:
obviousness. machismo. arrogance. normalcy...
Present in most of his writings.

Just a couple of angles I thought might add to the discussion.

g.

P.S. Most of the music you have ever listened to was brought about by or performed under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

It's a traditional drink in a small archipelago of Pacific Islands called Vanuatu, which is ground from a tree root. It is a mixture of anaesthetics and analgesics and basically makes you very relaxed, very sleepy and very lethargic.
The Earl

I tried Kava a number of times and never got much out of it. I can't tell you the scientific name of what I tried so I don't really know whether this was the real Kava or not, but I was curious as to how you prepared it. And of all the available psychotropics, what made you choose kava?

I researched it and found that Kava was widely used in the South Pacific. Preparation was rather unique. Young girls would chew the root and spit the pulp into a bowl where the salivary enzymes would apparently free the intoxiacting principles after a few hours, whereupon the stuff was drunk.

It's kind of interesting that there isn't a culture on earth that doesn't use some drug or intoxicant (according to Andrew Weill in "The Natural Mind") with the exception of some tribes of Innuit (Eskimos), who instead intoxicate themselves with prolonged drumming and dancing.

---dr.M.

 

[Guest]

? ? ?

Most of the music you have ever listened to was brought about by or performed under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol.

Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Bellini, Verdi, Wagner, Bizet, Handel, Purcell, Tchaikovsky, Puccini, Vivaldi, R. Strauss, Chopin, Brahms, Schubert. . .

'brought about by': please be precise.

'performed': w/ref. to above I don't think so.

Perdita

 

[MathGirl]

Boozie

I just read "Leaving Las Vegas." My God, what a downer that was. I think that book does for alcohol what "All Quiet on the Western Front" does for war: the ultimate condemnation.

It was a great book, but not one that leave the reader sining a happy tune. The writer killed himself at age 34, and I think the book was at least partly autogiographical.

MG

 

[BlackSnake]

Is there a call to solve the world's problems through fiction?

I don't think that drugs will make erotica sexy, unless one of the persons are so ugly that the drugs makes them seem beautiful.

"A couple more beers and she is J Low..."

 

[gauchecritic]

Re: ? ? ?

Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, Bellini, Verdi, Wagner, Bizet, Handel, Purcell, Tchaikovsky, Puccini, Vivaldi, R. Strauss, Chopin, Brahms, Schubert. . .

'brought about by': please be precise.

'performed': w/ref. to above I don't think so.

Perdita

Just before you don't include classical music I'll add The hip behatted kats, Kungfu jew, Bike ride radio, Anal soda and My toy car.

Gauche

 

[Guest]

Goauche: you made me recall a fave Detroit group, The Polish Muslims.

Purr

 

[DurtGurl]

Polish muslims!

Ever heard of "Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys?"
MG

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Re: Polish muslims!

Ever heard of "Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys?"
MG

I have the original album on Warner Brothers. Honest. Includes their never-to-be-a-hit song "Ride 'Em Jewboy".


---dr.M.

 

[DurtGurl]

Re: Re: Polish muslims!

I have the original album on Warner Brothers. Honest. Includes their never-to-be-a-hit song "Ride 'Em Jewboy".

My favorite is "They Ain't Making Jews Like Jesus Anymore."
MG

 

[glspade]

Coleridge's famous unfinished poem 'Kubla Khan' is thought to be inspired by an opium trip; he was well known to be an opium addict (I noticed it quoted here, earlier).
Artaud: "Wine exalts the will, hashish alienates it. They are all ‘flutterings toward infinity.’"
Elvis died on the shitter, drunk and looped on goofballs.
Rimbaud: alcoholic.
Frank Zappa: Cancer killed him after a long life of coffee and burnt weenie sandwich abuse.
Mozart, J.S. Bach, J.C. Bach, and W.F. Bach were alcoholics.
Mussorgsky abused drugs and alcohol.
Hector Berlioz used narcotics.
Glenn Gould, pianist, suffered from lifelong depression, popped pills, and died at age 50.
Stan Getz: alcoholic drug abuser.

Reggae? The 60's and 70's? Jazz? Rock and friggin roll? Verdi brand champagne and Bellini liquors ring a bell? Wasn't Wagner German? All germans are alcoholics. And nobody with any self respect would listen to George Handel, that's baroque fer chrissakes! And what about Abba?

A brochure for car rentals in Tokyo reads:
When passenger of foot heave in sight, tootle the horn.
Trumpet him melodiously at first, but if he still obstacles your passage then tootle him with vigor.

Even Japanese car rental agencies are on drugs!

I rest my case.

LOL

g.

P.S. I'm not trying to piss anybody off, just have a little fun. It is true about the artists above and their substance abuse, though, and the list (regrettably) runs much longer.

P.P.S Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys? Ride 'Em Jewboy? They Ain't Making Jews Like Jesus Anymore? I just peed my pants!

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The link between artists and drugs is beyond serious dispute, and the few who weren't involved with psychotropics wer mostly gay and tormented.

The question is: did they take drugs because they were artists, or were they artists because they took drugs?

My money's on the former.

In addition to all cultures having their ways of messing with reality, Andre Weill points out that messing with your mind is a normal part of children's play as well, as anyone who has let themselves be swung around until they're fall-down dizzy and then run back for more can testity.

Animals do it too. Birds eat fermented berries, cats have their amazing catnip (why oh why isn't there a peoplenip?), and, given the chance, rats in a cage will dose themselves with booze.

---dr.M.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

What if you're NOT a Bob Marley - fan, does your theory still hold water?

Seriously: Where's your proof for your statement? Can you show me ANY official records stating that EVERY FUCKING German is an alcoholic? And when did you ever see ABBA perform drunk???

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I think we have sufficient evidence for labelling glspade "A Troll".