Sex and Drugs In Stories
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TheEarl
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dr_mabeuse said:
I found kava when I was travelling in the South Pacific. Kava is more of a tradition in Vanuatu than a drink. It is traditionally prepared by chewing the root of the kava plant, but by men, not by young girls. In Ni-Vanuatu mythology, the kava plant is supposed to come directly from the vagina of a female god and so it's not 'kastom' for women to prepare it, or even to drink it in parts of Vanuatu.
The kind I tried was produced with a grinder, as it's not that healthy to get it chewed. I was in a very kastom village in Vanuatu where the women weren't even allowed to watch us drink it. Tastes absolutely horrible, possibly the most awful taste you can imagine, but the sense of cermeony and acceptance gained from drinking with the villagers was worth the effort of trying not to gag.
The Earl
Svenskaflicka
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Re: Trollism
LOL
I meant that he's trying to get attention for himself by provoking us with stupid ramblings.
MathGirl said:
LOL
I meant that he's trying to get attention for himself by provoking us with stupid ramblings.
G
Guest
Guest
You really are the most polite young man I've ever met. I must invite you to dinner some time (I am an awful cookTheEarl said:
)Pear
dr_mabeuse
seduce the mind
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For a site that dedicates itself to free speech this has all been pretty unbelievable to me. Whgat a bunch of fucking hypocrites! Free speech is fine as long as you don't say what I don't want to hear, is that how it works?
This goes way beyond the matter of drugs. This goes to the matter of respecting other people's opinions and giving more than lip service to the idea of free speech.
Now I don't give half a rat's ass what you want to call me, Svenska, or what you think of me. You obviously have some sort of deep problem with the idea of people using drugs. Fine. And if you want to argue about it, that's fine too.
But when you start attacking people's character for their opinions, that is just plain wrong. And when other people let you get away with it, that's wrong too. I don't care what someone advocates or believes, they're entitled to express their fucking opinion, anmd I for one take great umbrage at the way GLSpade was treated.
There's never a justification for ad hominem attacks. Never. It's what the fucking fascists and righ-wingers and crap do to shut people up, and this is just how they do iot. And everyone else can sit by with the thumbs up their ass but it's wrong and you and Mathgirl are wrong too.
I don't know if GL was kidding or just making a dumb comment about all Germans being alcoholics (It's the Irish who are alcoholics. The Germans are all cryptofascists) But whatever it is, you address what he says, you don't start calling him names and telling him he's full of shit.
It's fucking disgraceful
---dr.M.
This goes way beyond the matter of drugs. This goes to the matter of respecting other people's opinions and giving more than lip service to the idea of free speech.
Now I don't give half a rat's ass what you want to call me, Svenska, or what you think of me. You obviously have some sort of deep problem with the idea of people using drugs. Fine. And if you want to argue about it, that's fine too.
But when you start attacking people's character for their opinions, that is just plain wrong. And when other people let you get away with it, that's wrong too. I don't care what someone advocates or believes, they're entitled to express their fucking opinion, anmd I for one take great umbrage at the way GLSpade was treated.
There's never a justification for ad hominem attacks. Never. It's what the fucking fascists and righ-wingers and crap do to shut people up, and this is just how they do iot. And everyone else can sit by with the thumbs up their ass but it's wrong and you and Mathgirl are wrong too.
I don't know if GL was kidding or just making a dumb comment about all Germans being alcoholics (It's the Irish who are alcoholics. The Germans are all cryptofascists) But whatever it is, you address what he says, you don't start calling him names and telling him he's full of shit.
It's fucking disgraceful
---dr.M.
Svenskaflicka
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No protests from me, MG.
hiddenself
Really Really Experienced
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Are you serious? I often can't tell.MathGirl said:
I would have thought that you (at least) would recognize it for what it is even without a smiley attached.
dr_mabeuse
seduce the mind
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MathGirl said:
Oh for Christ sake. And all Jews are cheap and all blondes are dumb. It's a joke, MG. A joke. One of those things that people used to laugh at.
---dr.M.
KillerMuffin
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I used to have a big problem with people who did drugs. Why? My brain is broken. I can't rely on it the way most people can. It's hard to not built up a deep resentment toward people who have perfectly functioning brains and then choose to do physical damage to them. No, don't tell me that drugs don't do physical damage to your brain, that's a lie and you know it.
However, that was my problem. Eventually, I accepted my disability for what it was and limitations that it put on me. I even relish them at times. How many of you people could get through my set of circumstances with such grace? Shush now, leave me my delusions please.
But, there comes a point when the egalitarian in me comes out. Unlike Svenska, I'm not a socialist. I'm more of a libertarian. I firmly believe that the government has no right to tell people what they can and cannot do to themselves or with consenting adults. I don't believe they can tell me what I can or cannot purchase, what I can or cannot use, or what I can or cannot own.
If I believe that about myself, I believe that about others. If Dr m wants to fuck up his brain, that's his affair. It's his body, his life, and I expect him to be fully responsible in his choices with it. If not, then that's where the law should step in. Outside of that, it's not only none of my business, it's not my place to judge what he chooses to do by my yardstick.
As long as he's responsible, I don't have a problem with it. I have seen no evidence that he has been out driving under the influence, operating heavy machinery, or doing his job while wasted.
I think that Svenskaflicka should probably start thinking more about her own hypocrisy. After all, she advocates breaking into peoples houses to have sex. She advocates rape. What? Do you think we can't read your stories, Svenska? Or do you think that rape is okay? Do you think it's okay for a teacher to spank a student and turn her into his hooker? It's just fiction! Right? You don't really do it? Then why did he get away with it? Why are you titillating people with it? Why are you telling people that girls enjoy being raped by their teachers?
There's a saying, you know, clean out the plank in your own eye before you worry about the dust mote in your neighbors. You might want to really long and hard at the ugly and illegal things you're advocating before you climb onto your high and mighty horse.
Of course, I don't have room to talk, either. I draw the line at pedophilia myself and I have no rationalizations or interest in rationalizing why fictional pedophilia shouldn't be here. We are all hypocrites in our ways, are we not?
However, that was my problem. Eventually, I accepted my disability for what it was and limitations that it put on me. I even relish them at times. How many of you people could get through my set of circumstances with such grace? Shush now, leave me my delusions please.
But, there comes a point when the egalitarian in me comes out. Unlike Svenska, I'm not a socialist. I'm more of a libertarian. I firmly believe that the government has no right to tell people what they can and cannot do to themselves or with consenting adults. I don't believe they can tell me what I can or cannot purchase, what I can or cannot use, or what I can or cannot own.
If I believe that about myself, I believe that about others. If Dr m wants to fuck up his brain, that's his affair. It's his body, his life, and I expect him to be fully responsible in his choices with it. If not, then that's where the law should step in. Outside of that, it's not only none of my business, it's not my place to judge what he chooses to do by my yardstick.
As long as he's responsible, I don't have a problem with it. I have seen no evidence that he has been out driving under the influence, operating heavy machinery, or doing his job while wasted.
I think that Svenskaflicka should probably start thinking more about her own hypocrisy. After all, she advocates breaking into peoples houses to have sex. She advocates rape. What? Do you think we can't read your stories, Svenska? Or do you think that rape is okay? Do you think it's okay for a teacher to spank a student and turn her into his hooker? It's just fiction! Right? You don't really do it? Then why did he get away with it? Why are you titillating people with it? Why are you telling people that girls enjoy being raped by their teachers?
There's a saying, you know, clean out the plank in your own eye before you worry about the dust mote in your neighbors. You might want to really long and hard at the ugly and illegal things you're advocating before you climb onto your high and mighty horse.
Of course, I don't have room to talk, either. I draw the line at pedophilia myself and I have no rationalizations or interest in rationalizing why fictional pedophilia shouldn't be here. We are all hypocrites in our ways, are we not?
Madame Manga
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The jokes on this thread, however clumsily expressed, are being attacked as serious statements for some reason--this subject seems to bleed all the sense of humor out of some people.
GL said right out that he was kidding. Why not take him at his word, even if you didn't like the joke? I was going to make an answering crack about a certain 20th century Austro/German dictator (teetotaler, vegetarian, militant nonsmoker) but decided to leave it alone. I mean, in the atmosphere already established, someone might have decided to TAKE IT WRONG or something. Geez.
I don't agree with your stance on recreational drugs, Dr. M, as you know. But I disagree with those who have chosen to call you and others by foul names for expressing your opinions. I should have made my own opinion more clear in my earlier posts, and I'm sorry I didn't call a spade a spade right off. It wasn't easy for me to take the sillier accusations seriously, even though they astonishingly turn out to have been meant just that way. So I tried to use a light tone to maybe defuse a little of the anger with humor instead of addressing it head-on, and we've all seen how well that succeeded.
My bad.
Edit on seeing her post: What KM said. Opinions change over time, and mine are no exception. I'd like to preserve my own right to be wrong.
MM
GL said right out that he was kidding. Why not take him at his word, even if you didn't like the joke? I was going to make an answering crack about a certain 20th century Austro/German dictator (teetotaler, vegetarian, militant nonsmoker) but decided to leave it alone. I mean, in the atmosphere already established, someone might have decided to TAKE IT WRONG or something. Geez.
I don't agree with your stance on recreational drugs, Dr. M, as you know. But I disagree with those who have chosen to call you and others by foul names for expressing your opinions. I should have made my own opinion more clear in my earlier posts, and I'm sorry I didn't call a spade a spade right off. It wasn't easy for me to take the sillier accusations seriously, even though they astonishingly turn out to have been meant just that way. So I tried to use a light tone to maybe defuse a little of the anger with humor instead of addressing it head-on, and we've all seen how well that succeeded.
My bad.
Edit on seeing her post: What KM said. Opinions change over time, and mine are no exception. I'd like to preserve my own right to be wrong.
MM
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dr_mabeuse
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I'm flattered that everyone's concerned for the state of my poor abused brain cells, but I seem to be managing okay, at least I ripe jar pumpernickel slingshot fting hip passerby think so.
As far as I am concerned though, the debate is not about whether I personally should do drugs, or about whether anyone should or shouldn't do drugs.
The debate is about whether one has the right to express an opinion on drug use without being personally attacked for expressing that opinion.
For me, at least, that is what's really crucial here.
In any case, I'd just like to remind everyone that steam whirligig Vat 69 tomato zipper speedbump is as good advice now as it was back when I took my first rubber zoot parka treefern Zsazsa Gabor.
---dr.M.
As far as I am concerned though, the debate is not about whether I personally should do drugs, or about whether anyone should or shouldn't do drugs.
The debate is about whether one has the right to express an opinion on drug use without being personally attacked for expressing that opinion.
For me, at least, that is what's really crucial here.
In any case, I'd just like to remind everyone that steam whirligig Vat 69 tomato zipper speedbump is as good advice now as it was back when I took my first rubber zoot parka treefern Zsazsa Gabor.
---dr.M.
TheEarl
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It's like the argument for and not for smoking. I don't smoke cause I like having lungs that work. Other people can smoke if they want to cause it's their lungs they're fucking over.
A true liberal (and I use that in the dictionary sense, rather than the political sense) allows everyone to do whatever makes them happy, as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. This includes taking drugs, saying you like taking drugs, even advocating for others to take drugs. But it also includes the right to call someone an arsehole for doing any of the above.
I don't agree with Svenska's line on it, and I'm not sure I agree with her views on Dr M, but she is allowed to say whatever she wants on the subject.
Me
|
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V
Fence
Do you remember when the Hangout used to be nice? You know, all cliquey and stuff.
The Earl
A true liberal (and I use that in the dictionary sense, rather than the political sense) allows everyone to do whatever makes them happy, as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. This includes taking drugs, saying you like taking drugs, even advocating for others to take drugs. But it also includes the right to call someone an arsehole for doing any of the above.
I don't agree with Svenska's line on it, and I'm not sure I agree with her views on Dr M, but she is allowed to say whatever she wants on the subject.
Me
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|
V
Fence
Do you remember when the Hangout used to be nice? You know, all cliquey and stuff
.The Earl
Busy little bees, what have you been doing?
Ok.
This has gone entirely too far, but I will fire off one last little passage. You people (some of you) have entirely too much time on your hands.
If you had READ my last post, Ms. Flicka, you would've noticed quite a few little ridicularities peppered throughout (burnt weenie sandwiches?). But I find that you may be having some difficulty with your kerosene-fired Cheminazi decoder reading goggles. They just simply are not a very efficient device.
Are you sure you are intelligent, cause I'm catching a little AI (that's artificial intelligence) vibe?
You might have checked out the post script. You still can, if you can get your head out.
As for the rest of the content over the last 3 days, we really need to not be taking ourselves so seriously, people. Life is too short to be railing at each other for no other reason than opinion and standing one's ground, drug induced or not.
Who gives a fuck what who uses? You control your body, not mine. I respect the opinions of all the contributors, even the Cheminazi. There comes a point, though, where we start to look at each other as targets. I had fantasies that this site was a little more mature than that, but I don't think you can get away from it in an anonymous or semi-anonymous setting. Social checks and balances don't seem to carry out their handy little regulatory functions.
Said another way, if you acted at work the way some of these posts have come across, you'd be looking for a job. You'd mind your manners and respect your co-worker's space, wouldn't you.
All that said, I'm gonna get back to work and try to put this all behind me. I wonder if my therapist has some time free. Maybe some aromatherapy will calm me down enough that I can make a pot of tea and sit, staring out the window, watching the hookers and dealers do their thing. It's so relaxing. Not quite as relaxing as writing a good, hard, brutal, non-consent story, but it'll have to do.
LOL
g.
P.S. Once again, I feel I need to say that I'm not trying to piss anybody off, though I know that I have. This is unfortunate. You guys have your fun, I've got work to do.
xxxooo
g.
Ok.
This has gone entirely too far, but I will fire off one last little passage. You people (some of you) have entirely too much time on your hands.
If you had READ my last post, Ms. Flicka, you would've noticed quite a few little ridicularities peppered throughout (burnt weenie sandwiches?). But I find that you may be having some difficulty with your kerosene-fired Cheminazi decoder reading goggles. They just simply are not a very efficient device.
Are you sure you are intelligent, cause I'm catching a little AI (that's artificial intelligence) vibe?
You might have checked out the post script. You still can, if you can get your head out.
As for the rest of the content over the last 3 days, we really need to not be taking ourselves so seriously, people. Life is too short to be railing at each other for no other reason than opinion and standing one's ground, drug induced or not.
Who gives a fuck what who uses? You control your body, not mine. I respect the opinions of all the contributors, even the Cheminazi. There comes a point, though, where we start to look at each other as targets. I had fantasies that this site was a little more mature than that, but I don't think you can get away from it in an anonymous or semi-anonymous setting. Social checks and balances don't seem to carry out their handy little regulatory functions.
Said another way, if you acted at work the way some of these posts have come across, you'd be looking for a job. You'd mind your manners and respect your co-worker's space, wouldn't you.
All that said, I'm gonna get back to work and try to put this all behind me. I wonder if my therapist has some time free. Maybe some aromatherapy will calm me down enough that I can make a pot of tea and sit, staring out the window, watching the hookers and dealers do their thing. It's so relaxing. Not quite as relaxing as writing a good, hard, brutal, non-consent story, but it'll have to do.
LOL
g.
P.S. Once again, I feel I need to say that I'm not trying to piss anybody off, though I know that I have. This is unfortunate. You guys have your fun, I've got work to do.
xxxooo
g.
MathGirl
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KillerMuffin said:
Since when is a writer "advocating" something just because she puts it in a story? That's unfair, KM. I write dumb stories about gang bangs and incest, but I'm totally, lifelong monogamous.
Good grief! Writing a story about murder certainly doesn't mean that the author condones or advocates it. Creative writing gives us the opportunity to explore things which might be totally different from our own experiences or beliefs.
MG
jfinn
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Sheesh, we must be under a viscious moon right now. Last week I spent several wasted hours reading a flame war between two newsgroups and now I see this.
Poor Jefferson Pierce, all he did was ask a question. Suddenly he's got Dr M doing his Timothy Leary imitation and Svenska making determinations on how many glasses of wine a person can have before they become a hopeless alcoholic and a dozen other people jumping in and arguing along with them. No wonder he's never made another post on this thread.
But anyway sir, write your story the way you want to. If you do decide to put in the drugs then a small disclaimer at the beginning should be enough to warn those who don't care for that idea.
Oh and one more thing. Welcome to the funhouse.
Jayne
Poor Jefferson Pierce, all he did was ask a question. Suddenly he's got Dr M doing his Timothy Leary imitation and Svenska making determinations on how many glasses of wine a person can have before they become a hopeless alcoholic and a dozen other people jumping in and arguing along with them. No wonder he's never made another post on this thread.
But anyway sir, write your story the way you want to. If you do decide to put in the drugs then a small disclaimer at the beginning should be enough to warn those who don't care for that idea.
Oh and one more thing. Welcome to the funhouse.
Jayne
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dr_mabeuse
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jfinn said:
I hate to beat a dead horse, but I really don't understand what I said that makes people think I'm advising people to take drugs. I would appreciate someone pointing out what I said that gave that impression.
That fact that I like drugs doesn't mean that I think other people should take them. I eat pizza for breakfast too, but that doesn;' mean I think everyone should. I'm not in the habit of making an example of myself to anyone for any reason.
So either point out to me where I advocated other people using drugs, or drop it.
---dr.M.
KillerMuffin
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MathGirl said:
Neither does doing something in the privacy of one's own home equal adovcating the use of drugs. However, if Svenska is good enough to throw tantrums and run over the thread like she's the Queen Mother, she's good enough to get it thrown right back into her face.
Unfair, MG? Perhaps you should read the posts on this thread a little more carefully. Despite the point of language that gauche brought up, I don't ever recall seeing dr m advocate the use of drugs anywhere--even in his own post about them. What's unfair is telling someone else that they either conform to your wishes or they're bottom-sucking scum. That's unfair. Treating someone as if he's on par with pedophiles and murderers just because he does drugs is unfair. Especially since it's absolutely none of her business what he does. This is the Internet, she's never personally exposed to it. Drugs may do evil things to people, but that is not her choice to make and it's not fair of her to try to make it for someone she's barely acquainted with.
Ignoring someone is one thing, but doing so in a fashion designed to manipulate another person into feeling guilty or like a piece of shit, that's unfair.
I'm not above attacking people when I smell fresh blood in the shark tank.
Destiny
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Wow!
I have been reading through this thread. WOW! I am not a drug user. I can't say that I have never tried it, I have several forms. MY family has and still does use Mary Jane. All my friends did all my brothersfriends did. It has aways been around me, yet I never did it on a continuous basis. I did though to say Yes I had tried it. Why? Well to say that I have my reasons for not liking it. It is like food with a child. 'I don't like Brocoli' Well did you try it? No! Well then how do you know.
I am not saying everyone should go out and get everydrug they can find. I am merely saying that for people to Say YOu are a junkie because you drink, or you smoke pot is hyprocritical. You can't sit there and condemn someone for doing something that they enjoy. Do you have sex? Do you enjoy it? Well your a nymphomaniac, and you need counselling. that is the same thing.
Everyone is entitlted to their opinions. With opiniosn you get to see how everyone thinks. But calling people names and basically criticizing them for their lifestyle is IMHO a character flaw on y our behalf because you are not excepting that everything in this world is for use to enjoy or destroy.
You can walk away from this saying, "wow! she is a complete bitch." I will look at you and say thanks. Because that is your opinion. And from that point on I will avoid you and make sure that I don't speak to you. So that neither of us would have to be offending the other. But I would not say mena or harsh things about you because of yOUr opinion....
And Ramble finished.
I have been reading through this thread. WOW! I am not a drug user. I can't say that I have never tried it, I have several forms. MY family has and still does use Mary Jane. All my friends did all my brothersfriends did. It has aways been around me, yet I never did it on a continuous basis. I did though to say Yes I had tried it. Why? Well to say that I have my reasons for not liking it. It is like food with a child. 'I don't like Brocoli' Well did you try it? No! Well then how do you know.
I am not saying everyone should go out and get everydrug they can find. I am merely saying that for people to Say YOu are a junkie because you drink, or you smoke pot is hyprocritical. You can't sit there and condemn someone for doing something that they enjoy. Do you have sex? Do you enjoy it? Well your a nymphomaniac, and you need counselling. that is the same thing.
Everyone is entitlted to their opinions. With opiniosn you get to see how everyone thinks. But calling people names and basically criticizing them for their lifestyle is IMHO a character flaw on y our behalf because you are not excepting that everything in this world is for use to enjoy or destroy.
You can walk away from this saying, "wow! she is a complete bitch." I will look at you and say thanks. Because that is your opinion. And from that point on I will avoid you and make sure that I don't speak to you. So that neither of us would have to be offending the other. But I would not say mena or harsh things about you because of yOUr opinion....
And Ramble finished.
DVS
A ghost from your dreams
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Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Dr. M seems to like drugs for his personal use, and Svenskaflicka doesn't.
I don't see where Dr. M advocated drug use for anyone other than himself. If someone thinks he did, they should go back and read his post again.
I do feel, in my opinion, Svenskaflicka over reacted to Dr. M's statements. But, not knowing anything more about why she has, I reserve judgement. I know people can sometimes react in certain ways because of past experiences.
KillerMuffin, I see what you're trying to do here, but I don't think it's working. Good intentions perhaps, but not a good example.
In light of the emotions brought out in this thread, it does seem what a writer adds to a story of fiction can bring out the same emotions in a reader.
Something to think about, if you are planning on adding anything emotionally stimulating to your story.
I don't see where Dr. M advocated drug use for anyone other than himself. If someone thinks he did, they should go back and read his post again.
I do feel, in my opinion, Svenskaflicka over reacted to Dr. M's statements. But, not knowing anything more about why she has, I reserve judgement. I know people can sometimes react in certain ways because of past experiences.
KillerMuffin, I see what you're trying to do here, but I don't think it's working. Good intentions perhaps, but not a good example.
In light of the emotions brought out in this thread, it does seem what a writer adds to a story of fiction can bring out the same emotions in a reader.
Something to think about, if you are planning on adding anything emotionally stimulating to your story.
dr_mabeuse
seduce the mind
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I wasn't really looking for an apology, but Jayne, yours was most gracious. Honestly, I was just very confused about what I had said and thought that I had seriously misspoke myself somewhere and missed it.
I still for the life of me fail to see how a confession of a personal avocation is the same as a general advocation, and if someone could explain that one to me I would appreciate it as well. (God forbid that you should all become Bears fans.) A PM would be fine though. I think this has taken up enough public space.
In the mean time, I'd like to suggest that that we put this all behind us, and, as a show of goodwill, we all go out behind the garage and do up a couple of line, open up a couple of sixers, and fire up a phatty or two.
*I'm KIDDING!!! JOKING!!! NOT BEING SERIOUS!!!***
---dr.M.
I still for the life of me fail to see how a confession of a personal avocation is the same as a general advocation, and if someone could explain that one to me I would appreciate it as well. (God forbid that you should all become Bears fans.) A PM would be fine though. I think this has taken up enough public space.
In the mean time, I'd like to suggest that that we put this all behind us, and, as a show of goodwill, we all go out behind the garage and do up a couple of line, open up a couple of sixers, and fire up a phatty or two.
*I'm KIDDING!!! JOKING!!! NOT BEING SERIOUS!!!***
---dr.M.
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